Only the damage tricks scale, and at level 17 they end up being more damaging than level 1 to 3 spells (and they always scale the same way) while the rest of the tricks remain unchanged, at best improving by our statistics, and this is NOT It makes sense, that the 1st are empowered in such a way that they are more effective than magic that consumes low level spell slots. Why don't they spend any more actions since they became so powerful?
I have nothing against damage tricks, I know it's necessary for spellcasters to be able to serve in combat even though they don't have spell slots, I just don't understand why they can improve SO MUCH (they can quadruple their original power) but the rest not a bit, it makes sense that at least most of them can improve at least 1 time after so much practice (But not to the level of current damage tricks, unless the improvement of the rest is much more subtle, without a significant impact, I do not ask that they remain so that they displace those that DO consume spell space, that would be absurd, but I do ask that growth be noticed in them due to the player's mastery). And maybe a partial edit of the tricks that already scale (Slight nerf, but can also be used to differentiate the growth of damage spells a bit)
In this way it could also be used to enhance or give more utility to certain tricks that are usually relegated.
For example of editing the scaling (without touching anything of the rest of the spells), I could propose the following possibilities:
GUIDANCE and RESISTANCE: at level 11 increase the range to 15 feet, and at level 17 to 20 feet (Currently they have a 10 foot range)
SPARE THE DYING: At level 11 it can be performed both as an additional action and as an action, and at level 17, 1d10 is rolled, if 10 rolls the affected person will not gain exhaustion for dying on that occasion (You become faster casting it and in the end you can even avoid some adverse effects, he will still be unconscious if no one heals him, so the party momentarily loses an ally)
FRIENDS: At 11th level it doesn't need a material component, and at 17th level it's no longer a spell that uses your concentration.
VICIOUS MOCKERY: Replaces his 11th level upgrade with a chance to increases its range to 60 feet, or have the opponent save with disadvantage. (I don't know which of the 2 would be more appropriate.)
BLADE WARD and POISON SPRAY: At level 11, you can also cast it as a reaction if an enemy moves next to your character (And before it wasn't) (in the 2nd trick it will replace the scaling of that level)
PRODUCE FLAME: Replacing the level 11 upgrade, if any invisible creature or object is located within the bright light of the trick (10ft), it will flash warning them. (Similar to Find Traps, it reports that something is in range, but not where or what.)
SHILLELAGH: At level 11 you can also benefit from the "Mastery" of the improved object (If it no longer benefits from that with a future modification of the spell, it is the case, change the d8 to d10 or give the weapon "Reach" property), At level 17 the weapon's damage dice changes to 1d10.
DRUIDCRAFT, MAGE HAND and MINIOR ILLUSION: At 11th level it increases its range to 45 feet.
PRESTIDIGITATION and THAUMATURGY: At level 11 you can also cast it as an additional action, At level 17 you can stack 4 effects at once.
TRUE IMPACT: At 11th level it's no longer a spell that uses your concentration.
DANCING LIGHTS and LIGHT: At level 11 it doubles its duration.
MESSAGE: At level 11 you do not need somatic or material components, At level 17 you do not need somatic components.
MENDING: At level 11 its cast time is reduced to 30 seconds (5 turns/actions), At level 17 to 18 seconds (3 turns/actions).
Too hard to keep track of all that, and in most cases the upgrades aren't that significant. The damage of cantrips grows to keep them relevant. Other spells stay relevant because higher level spell slots unlock as you level up.
Not all cantrips need to scale inherently. Shillelagh doesn't scale because you can scale it externally via things like Extra Attack and PAM. Guidance doesn't scale because the proficiency bonuses and ability scores already do. And so on.
Too hard to keep track of all that, and in most cases the upgrades aren't that significant. The damage of cantrips grows to keep them relevant. Other spells stay relevant because higher level spell slots unlock as you level up.
Not all cantrips need to scale inherently. Shillelagh doesn't scale because you can scale it externally via things like Extra Attack and PAM. Guidance doesn't scale because the proficiency bonuses and ability scores already do. And so on.
Yes, I understand, I already saw that of those who already climb by themselves... but there is something that happens but the others do not, which short-circuits me, I thought only a tiny improvement at level 11 (no longer needing any type of component or concentration, more casting speed, longer duration, longer range or things like that, something very small, that does not significantly affect them or are too good, so they do not replace the ones that do spend spell slots.) , but I see that it was not a good idea... Thank you very much for your comments and excuse me then for creating a topic unnecessarily.
And about Shillelagh, what he proposed was more so that not only martial arts can take advantage of it, and that it is a primal spell, but a druid can hardly use it, leaving only the explorer or specific constructions that achieve that spell in some other way. to make it a good option.
I don't know what you didn't understand, but I apologize in advance, surely something was unclear, partly because it's not my native language, although it's also because I didn't know how to express myself correctly...
Utility cantrips don't need to scale because utility cantrips provide the same level of utility at level 20 that they do at level 1. A level 20 wizard will still use mage hand to open a sus door from thirty feet away to try and get advantage on the inevitable DX save, and they don't need Mage Hand to scale to do it. Utility is always valuable, by fundamental definition. 1d8 damage, meanwhile, becomes increasingly irrelevant as you level up so cantrips gain extra damage to try and offset this, stay at the same broad level of relevancy for each stage of play.
I still think about this, that most, or all cantrips should have a level of enhancement, even if it means little in terms of how much that enhancement impacts it to prevent it from being too good/powerful, and that damage spells, not all scale the same (Just adding dice at each upgrade level.)
Even more so considering the 5th AU, since new cantrips were incorporated, and not all of them were damage but they all had a level of improvement in the same cantrip (BOOK OF SHADOWS and FAMILY PACT). Yes, I know that they are exceptions and it is so that the boon pact does not remain as something decorative or super exploitable and powerful for multiclasses by only falling 1 to 3 levels.
So I come back with my insistence on this, and incidentally, with some modifications to some cantrips, all with some kind of scaling within their descriptions. (Yes, I know that some already scale due to the improvements of their own statistics.) :
Blade Ward Casting Time: 1 Additional Action Starting at level 11 it also prevents you from taking a crit from weapon attacks.
BOOK OF SHADOWS Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, this spell also enhances other cantrips while the book is on your person; you can add your Warlock spellcasting ability modifier to the damage rolls of any cantrip you cast that doesn’t already have that modifier added to its damage roll. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You add another 2 spells with the "Ritual" tag, and allow your spells with the "Ritual" tag that are from the Arcana list. (¿or all lists?)
Friends Starting at level 11, the creature will have to pass a wisdom saving throw with a DC of 8, you add HALF of your stealth or deceit bonus if it is affected by the "Calm Emotions" spell, if it doesn't pass it it doesn't notice that magic has been used to influence his mood.
Mage Hand, Druidcraft, Minor Illusion, Gust Range: 30 ft (9 m), starting at level 11 it changes to 45 ft (12.5 m)
Magic Stone When you reach 11th level the damage and from this spell is replaced by 1d8.
Mending Casting time: 1 minute, starting at level 11 it changes to 3 actions.
Message Casting Time: 1 action, changes to 1 additional action at 11th level or higher Components: V, S, M (a small piece of copper wire), starting at level 11 no longer requires material components.
PACT FAMILIAR Cantrip Upgrade. Starting when you reach 5th level as a Warlock, you can communicate telepathically with your familiar as long as you two are on the same plane of existence. Additionally, while perceiving through your familiar’s senses, you can also speak through your familiar in your own voice. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You can consume your familiar to restore a spent spell slot of your choice, this recovery takes 1 minute.
PACT TALISMAN (¿All statics?) Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock) Casting Time: 8 hours Range: Self Component: S, M (A gem valued at 20 gold, which becomes the pact talisman. From level 5 the cost increases to 100 gold and at level 11 to 500, having to recast the spell with the updated requirements to benefit from the additional improvements.) Duration: Instantaneous Intertwining forbidden knowledge, strange experiments and a weak connection with something unknown, which emanates a mysterious force, you modify a gem turning it into a peculiar semi-sentient talisman,you must be attuned to the talisman to gain its benefits: - Does not count towards the attuned item limit. - Spellcasting Focus. You can use the PACT TALISMAN as a Spellcasting Focus. - Your Spell save DC and Spell attack modifier are increased by 1. - You are proficient in ARCANE Knowledge. Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, Your Spell save DC are increased by 2. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, Your summoning spells and Eldritch Invocations will be cast at 1 higher level.
PACT WEAPON Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, you gain the Extra Attack feature for the conjured or magic weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon, instead of once, when you take the Attack action on your turn. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You can use the PACT WEAPON as a Spellcasting Focus and allows you to benefit from its mastery effect.
Poison Spray The damage of this spell increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), at 11th level the dice change every d12 to 2d8 (4d8), at 17th level you add 2d8 (6d8).
Produce Flame Components: V, S A flickering flame appears in your hand. The flame remains there for the duration of the spell and does not hurt you or your team. The flame sheds bright light in a 15 foot (3 cells, 4.5m) radius and dim light for an additional 15 foot (3 cells, 4.5m). The spell ends if you cancel it as an action or if you cast it again. You can also attack with the flame, but doing so ends the spell. When you cast this spell, as an action on a later turn or as a reaction when it's out of your turn a creature enters the spell's range, you can cast the flame at one creature within 30 feet (6 cells, 9m) of you. Make a ranged spell attack roll. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 points of fire damage. The damage of this spell increases by 1d6 when you reach level 5 (2d6), at level 11 the dice change every d6 to 2d4 (4d4) and NO longer requires verbal components, at 17th level you add 2d4 (6d4).
Resistance, Guidance Range: 10 ft (3 m), starting at level 11 changed to 15 ft (4.5 m)(OR "Range: 5 ft (1.5 m), starting at level 11 changed to 10 ft (3 m) )")
Sacred Flame The damage of this spell increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), at level 11 the dice changes to d10 (2d10) and the target makes the saving throw with disadvantage if it is a Fiend or Undead, at level 17 you add another dice (3d10).
Shillelagh When you reach 11th level, this spell's damage is replaced by 2d4 and allows you to benefit from its Mastery effect.
Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, Shape Water, Mold Earth Starting at level 11, you can create or undo two of the effects at once, and you can have 1 additional effect activated at a time.
True Strike Casting Time: 1 Additional Action Starting at level 11, if the attack made hits a crit, triple the dice rolled instead of doubling them.
Only the damage tricks scale, and at level 17 they end up being more damaging than level 1 to 3 spells (and they always scale the same way) while the rest of the tricks remain unchanged, at best improving by our statistics, and this is NOT It makes sense, that the 1st are empowered in such a way that they are more effective than magic that consumes low level spell slots. Why don't they spend any more actions since they became so powerful?
I have nothing against damage tricks, I know it's necessary for spellcasters to be able to serve in combat even though they don't have spell slots, I just don't understand why they can improve SO MUCH (they can quadruple their original power) but the rest not a bit, it makes sense that at least most of them can improve at least 1 time after so much practice (But not to the level of current damage tricks, unless the improvement of the rest is much more subtle, without a significant impact, I do not ask that they remain so that they displace those that DO consume spell space, that would be absurd, but I do ask that growth be noticed in them due to the player's mastery). And maybe a partial edit of the tricks that already scale (Slight nerf, but can also be used to differentiate the growth of damage spells a bit)
In this way it could also be used to enhance or give more utility to certain tricks that are usually relegated.
For example of editing the scaling (without touching anything of the rest of the spells), I could propose the following possibilities:
and at level 17 to 20 feet(Currently they have a 10 foot range)and at level 17, 1d10 is rolled, if 10 rolls the affected person will not gain exhaustion for dying on that occasion(You become faster casting itand in the end you can even avoid some adverse effects, he will still be unconscious if no one heals him, so the party momentarily loses an ally)and at 17th level it's no longer a spell that uses your concentration.At level 17 the weapon's damage dice changes to 1d10.At level 17 you can stack 4 effects at once.At level 17 you do not need somatic components.At level 17 to 18 seconds (3 turns/actions).Too hard to keep track of all that, and in most cases the upgrades aren't that significant. The damage of cantrips grows to keep them relevant. Other spells stay relevant because higher level spell slots unlock as you level up.
Not all cantrips need to scale inherently. Shillelagh doesn't scale because you can scale it externally via things like Extra Attack and PAM. Guidance doesn't scale because the proficiency bonuses and ability scores already do. And so on.
What?
Yes, I understand, I already saw that of those who already climb by themselves... but there is something that happens but the others do not, which short-circuits me, I thought only a tiny improvement at level 11 (no longer needing any type of component or concentration, more casting speed, longer duration, longer range or things like that, something very small, that does not significantly affect them or are too good, so they do not replace the ones that do spend spell slots.) , but I see that it was not a good idea... Thank you very much for your comments and excuse me then for creating a topic unnecessarily.
And about Shillelagh, what he proposed was more so that not only martial arts can take advantage of it, and that it is a primal spell, but a druid can hardly use it, leaving only the explorer or specific constructions that achieve that spell in some other way. to make it a good option.
I don't know what you didn't understand, but I apologize in advance, surely something was unclear, partly because it's not my native language, although it's also because I didn't know how to express myself correctly...
Utility cantrips don't need to scale because utility cantrips provide the same level of utility at level 20 that they do at level 1. A level 20 wizard will still use mage hand to open a sus door from thirty feet away to try and get advantage on the inevitable DX save, and they don't need Mage Hand to scale to do it. Utility is always valuable, by fundamental definition. 1d8 damage, meanwhile, becomes increasingly irrelevant as you level up so cantrips gain extra damage to try and offset this, stay at the same broad level of relevancy for each stage of play.
Please do not contact or message me.
I still think about this, that most, or all cantrips should have a level of enhancement, even if it means little in terms of how much that enhancement impacts it to prevent it from being too good/powerful, and that damage spells, not all scale the same (Just adding dice at each upgrade level.)
Even more so considering the 5th AU, since new cantrips were incorporated, and not all of them were damage but they all had a level of improvement in the same cantrip (BOOK OF SHADOWS and FAMILY PACT). Yes, I know that they are exceptions and it is so that the boon pact does not remain as something decorative or super exploitable and powerful for multiclasses by only falling 1 to 3 levels.
So I come back with my insistence on this, and incidentally, with some modifications to some cantrips, all with some kind of scaling within their descriptions. (Yes, I know that some already scale due to the improvements of their own statistics.) :
Blade Ward
Casting Time: 1 Additional Action
Starting at level 11 it also prevents you from taking a crit from weapon attacks.
BOOK OF SHADOWS
Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, this spell also enhances other cantrips while the book is on your person; you can add your Warlock spellcasting ability modifier to the damage rolls of any cantrip you cast that doesn’t already have that modifier added to its damage roll. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You add another 2 spells with the "Ritual" tag, and allow your spells with the "Ritual" tag that are from the Arcana list. (¿or all lists?)
Friends
Starting at level 11, the creature will have to pass a wisdom saving throw with a DC of 8, you add HALF of your stealth or deceit bonus if it is affected by the "Calm Emotions" spell, if it doesn't pass it it doesn't notice that magic has been used to influence his mood.
Mage Hand, Druidcraft, Minor Illusion, Gust
Range: 30 ft (9 m), starting at level 11 it changes to 45 ft (12.5 m)
Magic Stone
When you reach 11th level the damage and from this spell is replaced by 1d8.
Mending
Casting time: 1 minute, starting at level 11 it changes to 3 actions.
Message
Casting Time: 1 action, changes to 1 additional action at 11th level or higher
Components: V, S, M (a small piece of copper wire), starting at level 11 no longer requires material components.
PACT FAMILIAR
Cantrip Upgrade. Starting when you reach 5th level as a Warlock, you can communicate telepathically with your familiar as long as you two are on the same plane of existence. Additionally, while perceiving through your familiar’s senses, you can also speak through your familiar in your own voice. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You can consume your familiar to restore a spent spell slot of your choice, this recovery takes 1 minute.
PACT TALISMAN
(¿All statics?)Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
Casting Time: 8 hours
Range: Self
Component: S, M (A gem valued at 20 gold, which becomes the pact talisman. From level 5 the cost increases to 100 gold and at level 11 to 500, having to recast the spell with the updated requirements to benefit from the additional improvements.)
Duration: Instantaneous
Intertwining forbidden knowledge, strange experiments and a weak connection with something unknown, which emanates a mysterious force, you modify a gem turning it into a peculiar semi-sentient talisman,you must be attuned to the talisman to gain its benefits:
- Does not count towards the attuned item limit.
- Spellcasting Focus. You can use the PACT TALISMAN as a Spellcasting Focus.
- Your Spell save DC and Spell attack modifier are increased by 1.
- You are proficient in ARCANE Knowledge.
Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, Your Spell save DC are increased by 2. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, Your summoning spells and Eldritch Invocations will be cast at 1 higher level.
PACT WEAPON
Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, you gain the Extra Attack feature for the conjured or magic weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon, instead of once, when you take the Attack action on your turn. When you reach 11th level as a Warlock, You can use the PACT WEAPON as a Spellcasting Focus and allows you to benefit from its mastery effect.
Poison Spray
The damage of this spell increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), at 11th level the dice change every d12 to 2d8 (4d8), at 17th level you add 2d8 (6d8).
Produce Flame
Components: V, S
A flickering flame appears in your hand. The flame remains there for the duration of the spell and does not hurt you or your team. The flame sheds bright light in a 15 foot (3 cells, 4.5m) radius and dim light for an additional 15 foot (3 cells, 4.5m). The spell ends if you cancel it as an action or if you cast it again.
You can also attack with the flame, but doing so ends the spell. When you cast this spell, as an action on a later turn or as a reaction when it's out of your turn a creature enters the spell's range, you can cast the flame at one creature within 30 feet (6 cells, 9m) of you. Make a ranged spell attack roll. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 points of fire damage.
The damage of this spell increases by 1d6 when you reach level 5 (2d6), at level 11 the dice change every d6 to 2d4 (4d4) and NO longer requires verbal components, at 17th level you add 2d4 (6d4).
Resistance, Guidance
Range: 10 ft (3 m), starting at level 11 changed to 15 ft (4.5 m)
(OR "Range: 5 ft (1.5 m), starting at level 11 changed to 10 ft (3 m) )")Sacred Flame
The damage of this spell increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), at level 11 the dice changes to d10 (2d10) and the target makes the saving throw with disadvantage if it is a Fiend or Undead, at level 17 you add another dice (3d10).
Shillelagh
When you reach 11th level, this spell's damage is replaced by 2d4 and allows you to benefit from its Mastery effect.
Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, Shape Water, Mold Earth
Starting at level 11, you can create or undo two of the effects at once, and you can have 1 additional effect activated at a time.
True Strike
Casting Time: 1 Additional Action
Starting at level 11, if the attack made hits a crit, triple the dice rolled instead of doubling them.