I've seen some similar threads, including ones which have asked similar questions, but the threads ambled off without covering the specific point. D&DB seems to have mixed views on necroing threads, so apologies if a new thread triggers a "oh god, another one". I have a slight, but not a major, role-play preference for the PAM.
Anyway.
I'm a pure Hexblade, just levelled up to lvl 4, wondering whether to go ASI or Feat (PAM)
Current stats: St: 8 Dex: 14 Con:14 Int:10 Wis: 12 Cha: 17 No current feats My default set-up is a "spear and shield", but obviously as a Hexblade I can switch to a Glaive should circumstances call for it. I have improved pact weapon
If I take PAM, then I have three things tapping on my door for bonus actions: HBC, Hex, PAM
That said, Hex has dropped in utility since I got level 2 spells, and obviously HBC is a single use. So, the questions are thus:
1) Do people think I'd still get a chance to use PAM enough to make it worth taking (factoring in the incoming opportunity attacks)? 2) Would improving a stat, presumably Charisma, be more useful?
Yes. You're not going to move hex every round. You're not going to have hex UP every round to move, and HBC, as you say, is only once. PAM will be useful most rounds of most fights.
That said, I personally, prefer ASI. I hate missing, and ASI will make me miss slightly less, and every hit will do /slightly/ more. ASI is more consistent and I prefer consistency.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I would take a half feat to bump Charisma to 18 for now and then at level 8 depending on your playstyle either pickup Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master
I worry about some of those other stats. Your Dex and Con could stand to be better; are they really only 2, or did you mean 12? And your Charisma is odd, so it's worth a look. Depending on your race, it might be worth it to split an ASI and take a desirable racial feat at 8th-level.
Feats are nice, but they're optional for a reason. I strongly recommend shoring up your other weaknesses, first.
Im making a similar character, but its to replace a level 11 character in my current campaign. I am caught between getting PAM at 8 or 12.
12 is where it really comes on line in my eyes, since that is when you get access to the Life Drinker invocation. Even without hex or hexblade's curse, 1d4+10 is excellent bonus action damage.
But POM wouldn't be bad at 4th level. For big fights that last multiple rounds, it will work with Hexblade's curse or Hex pretty well.
One thing Im strongly considering is taking the fey touched feat at 4 or 8, that way I will have a bit more freedom with my warlock slots.
Okay, that all looks a lot better. Personally, I'm wary of having too low a strength score in medium armor. I've had people bring me characters who couldn't legally move. But so long as you're careful it'll work itself out. I just made a half-orc urchin hexblade with a spread of 10 13 15 12 10 15. I'll be using his ASIs at 4 and 8 to bring that to 10 14 16 12 10 16 with the Orcish Fury feat, and at 12 his Charisma will be 18. I'm also deliberately forgoing hex, as I find it ties me down too much with concentration. It's great with eldritch blast, but I don't have that either.
And that's the big risk of engaging in melee with concentration spells. You're more likely to get hit. All it takes is one good hit and a failed saving throw to lose the spell. Artificers, Eldritch Knights, Paladins, and Bladesingers are all okay. But warlocks have it rough. I'd say stick with the shield if you're going to go this route with hex. You need all the defense you can get.
Okay, that all looks a lot better. Personally, I'm wary of having too low a strength score in medium armor. I've had people bring me characters who couldn't legally move. But so long as you're careful it'll work itself out. I just made a half-orc urchin hexblade with a spread of 10 13 15 12 10 15. I'll be using his ASIs at 4 and 8 to bring that to 10 14 16 12 10 16 with the Orcish Fury feat, and at 12 his Charisma will be 18. I'm also deliberately forgoing hex, as I find it ties me down too much with concentration. It's great with eldritch blast, but I don't have that either.
And that's the big risk of engaging in melee with concentration spells. You're more likely to get hit. All it takes is one good hit and a failed saving throw to lose the spell. Artificers, Eldritch Knights, Paladins, and Bladesingers are all okay. But warlocks have it rough. I'd say stick with the shield if you're going to go this route with hex. You need all the defense you can get.
I don't always agree with Jounichi, but he's spot on RE Hex. Now, for full disclosure, I love hex. Hex is great...on a ranged character. I'm not nearly as much of a fan of hex on melee characters, because you are /going/ to take hits, and you're /going/ to lose concentration on spells. For a melee based hexblade, I am looking for things that make me better at melee and do not require concentration.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I would recommend GWM before PAM, because let's be real: If you're going to use the main benefit of PAM on the THIRD round of combat, things are mostly wrapping up by then for most encounters. You won't even get as many opportunity attacks because of your regular, short range thanks to forgoing a halberd/glaive. This all translates to the feat going to waste. spear and shield is just baby damage, you'd be better off spamming EB, which brings me to my next point.
I'd recommend fey touched. Having a free misty step a day is awesome! Even if you insist on keeping spear and shield, the ability to close a distance is crucial for melee. Anything else you can pick, though dissonant whispers has nice synergy in situations where you're ganging up on a monster with your team mates, then you all get oppies. bonus points if you have warcaster so you can apply booming blade.
By improving CHA, you increase so much related to it, your skills, your to-hit, your damage, your CHA save (rare, but still). PAM just does combat related stuff, and your CHA might do better there when it comes to spamming EB. I personally wouldn't recommend upping your con, it's fine. You'd go from having a mediocre con to slightly better con, but nothing to write home about. Shoring up weaknesses is silly cause your team mates can do that for you, just focus on improving YOUR STRENGTHS!
One other reason I’d be tempted to pick up PAM at level 4: Eldritch smite comes on line at level 5. Even without hex or hexblades curse, 3 attacks in a turn increases the chance of a critical strike, which feels oh so good with a mighty smite that blows actual Paladin smites out of the water.
Personally I'd go PAM, that is the play style you want to play so get it as early as possible. If you keep taking ASI, or even fey touched by the time you finally take PAM the campaign will almost be over and you wont get to use your desired play style for long. I'd rather play my play style but slightly less effectively from the get go.
I am playing a Hexblade (5 atm) and I am also considering going for PAM, but have chosen to delay it to level 8. I am in a better position than you however, since I have already got a 20 in Cha. If I were you I would definitely try to get at least an 18 Cha at level 4 by taking either Elven Accuracy (if available) or Fey Touched at level 4 to get to 18 cha.
This means your potential melee damage is lower than if you chose PAM at level 4, but your damage will be more consistent, since you will have a netter chance to hit, both with EB and melee attacks.
Imho level 8 is when the Hexblade really starts to shine. Pick up Eldritch smile by this point and combine it with Shadow of Moil and PAM at level 8 for some really bonkers melee shenanigans. If you lack Warcaster Feat I would advice sticking to spear + shield to get some additional defense. You will still get three attacks with advantage pr round and throw on a smite in the mix + Hexblade's Curse and you are looking at some really nice dpr.
I've seen some similar threads, including ones which have asked similar questions, but the threads ambled off without covering the specific point. D&DB seems to have mixed views on necroing threads, so apologies if a new thread triggers a "oh god, another one". I have a slight, but not a major, role-play preference for the PAM.
Anyway.
I'm a pure Hexblade, just levelled up to lvl 4, wondering whether to go ASI or Feat (PAM)
Current stats: St: 8 Dex: 14 Con:14 Int:10 Wis: 12 Cha: 17 No current feats My default set-up is a "spear and shield", but obviously as a Hexblade I can switch to a Glaive should circumstances call for it. I have improved pact weapon
If I take PAM, then I have three things tapping on my door for bonus actions: HBC, Hex, PAM
That said, Hex has dropped in utility since I got level 2 spells, and obviously HBC is a single use. So, the questions are thus:
1) Do people think I'd still get a chance to use PAM enough to make it worth taking (factoring in the incoming opportunity attacks)? 2) Would improving a stat, presumably Charisma, be more useful?
I don't think Hex is great on a high level slot.If you want to keep using Hex I would get it through Fey touched or magic initiate so I could use it on a free slot. Fey touched would be a great feat to boost your charisma to 18.
Also Hex is not going to work well using a spear and shield because it has a material component. You will need to drop your spear and pull out a mustard seed or a focus to cast hex, then you have no weapon to attack with. If you are going sword and board I would recommend you switch to a staff which does the damage as a spear, does better damage type and can double as a spell focus. It also works with PAM if you get the feat. If you are dead set on using a spear and not a staff I would look at ditching Hex and getting Hunters Mark through Fey Touched since it has no material or somatic component. Hex is a better spell though.
I think generally Fey Touched with Hex is going to give you more than PAM will give you, PAM will also give you a reaction attack too. When you get 3rd level slots you can play the "concentrate through a short rest" games if it is on your list through Fey Touched and then you can cast it again for free if you use concentration.
I don't think Eldritch Smite blows Paladin Smite out of the water because you have so few of them. Crit fishing is ok, but then you run into the problem you might get the crit when it is not ideal. For example, you are round 4 into a battle and you roll your first crit. 10d8 damage is great but now the enemies are all almost dead anyway. Also keep in mind if you are using a reach weapon and knock an enemy prone you will be at disadvantage to hit him unless you move closer and all your ranged and reach allies will be at disadvantage too. I think something like SOM in round 1 is going to give you a lot more mileage.
Imho level 8 is when the Hexblade really starts to shine. Pick up Eldritch smile by this point and combine it with Shadow of Moil and PAM at level 8 for some really bonkers melee shenanigans.
I have never really seen this work well in play. If you cast SOM then you only have 1 spell slot left, so you can Eldritch Smite 1 time and it sucks up your only remaining spell slot and an invocation slot to deal an extra 5d8 damage and knock a guy prone once?
A couple of thoughts: 1. Is PAM worth it when you might also have Hex eating your bonus action. Yes it can be. I played a spear/shield PAM ranger which functions similarly and it was worth it. You will nearly always be using your bonus action. That is not bad. The reaction attack on incoming foes happens reasonably often. I would recommend the eldritch mind invocation when you get the chance to take it since you will be taking damage. Spirit Shroud will eventually be better and worth shifting to from Hex. Its a good choice for any martial character and combined with hex its a good approach. 2. Should you boost your charisma. Yeah probably. With an odd charisma you can even that out for another +1 to hit. Fey touched is the go to one here since it gets you two great spells that immediately help you (misty step saves lives, and your choice of Hex/Bless/etc.). The other part here is it allows the game to come to you more. If you find a great magic weapon you aren't locked into polearms and can take advantage of it. When you choose PAM early you lock in your play style and try to dictate to the game. Its not that PAM isn't worth it, but that Fey Touched is also worth it for different reasons. 3. Fey touched options: Hex - the higher level you get the more painful it is to use a high level slot with hex and you it makes it slightly disposable which is nice. Bless - an encounter distorting spell at all levels. If you can cast it before combat (and not burn a round on it) it produces damage roughly equal to hex for you and total does more because for your 2 friends you have blessed. If you combine with PAM you also don't have to sacrifice your bonus action attack. Dissonant Whispers - I love casting this on an enemy with multiple people around it and doing damage and forcing opportunity attacks. Warlocks tend to concentrate on spells and this is a nice thing you don't have to.
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Hi all,
I've seen some similar threads, including ones which have asked similar questions, but the threads ambled off without covering the specific point. D&DB seems to have mixed views on necroing threads, so apologies if a new thread triggers a "oh god, another one". I have a slight, but not a major, role-play preference for the PAM.
Anyway.
I'm a pure Hexblade, just levelled up to lvl 4, wondering whether to go ASI or Feat (PAM)
Current stats: St: 8 Dex: 14 Con:14 Int:10 Wis: 12 Cha: 17
No current feats
My default set-up is a "spear and shield", but obviously as a Hexblade I can switch to a Glaive should circumstances call for it. I have improved pact weapon
If I take PAM, then I have three things tapping on my door for bonus actions: HBC, Hex, PAM
That said, Hex has dropped in utility since I got level 2 spells, and obviously HBC is a single use. So, the questions are thus:
1) Do people think I'd still get a chance to use PAM enough to make it worth taking (factoring in the incoming opportunity attacks)?
2) Would improving a stat, presumably Charisma, be more useful?
Yes. You're not going to move hex every round. You're not going to have hex UP every round to move, and HBC, as you say, is only once. PAM will be useful most rounds of most fights.
That said, I personally, prefer ASI. I hate missing, and ASI will make me miss slightly less, and every hit will do /slightly/ more. ASI is more consistent and I prefer consistency.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I would take a half feat to bump Charisma to 18 for now and then at level 8 depending on your playstyle either pickup Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master
I worry about some of those other stats. Your Dex and Con could stand to be better; are they really only 2, or did you mean 12? And your Charisma is odd, so it's worth a look. Depending on your race, it might be worth it to split an ASI and take a desirable racial feat at 8th-level.
Feats are nice, but they're optional for a reason. I strongly recommend shoring up your other weaknesses, first.
Im making a similar character, but its to replace a level 11 character in my current campaign. I am caught between getting PAM at 8 or 12.
12 is where it really comes on line in my eyes, since that is when you get access to the Life Drinker invocation. Even without hex or hexblade's curse, 1d4+10 is excellent bonus action damage.
But POM wouldn't be bad at 4th level. For big fights that last multiple rounds, it will work with Hexblade's curse or Hex pretty well.
One thing Im strongly considering is taking the fey touched feat at 4 or 8, that way I will have a bit more freedom with my warlock slots.
Got distracted while writing and mixed up writing modifiers and writing base stats. Now fixed.
I suppose something like shadowtouched could be a good compromise here
Okay, that all looks a lot better. Personally, I'm wary of having too low a strength score in medium armor. I've had people bring me characters who couldn't legally move. But so long as you're careful it'll work itself out. I just made a half-orc urchin hexblade with a spread of 10 13 15 12 10 15. I'll be using his ASIs at 4 and 8 to bring that to 10 14 16 12 10 16 with the Orcish Fury feat, and at 12 his Charisma will be 18. I'm also deliberately forgoing hex, as I find it ties me down too much with concentration. It's great with eldritch blast, but I don't have that either.
And that's the big risk of engaging in melee with concentration spells. You're more likely to get hit. All it takes is one good hit and a failed saving throw to lose the spell. Artificers, Eldritch Knights, Paladins, and Bladesingers are all okay. But warlocks have it rough. I'd say stick with the shield if you're going to go this route with hex. You need all the defense you can get.
I don't always agree with Jounichi, but he's spot on RE Hex. Now, for full disclosure, I love hex. Hex is great...on a ranged character. I'm not nearly as much of a fan of hex on melee characters, because you are /going/ to take hits, and you're /going/ to lose concentration on spells. For a melee based hexblade, I am looking for things that make me better at melee and do not require concentration.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I would recommend GWM before PAM, because let's be real: If you're going to use the main benefit of PAM on the THIRD round of combat, things are mostly wrapping up by then for most encounters. You won't even get as many opportunity attacks because of your regular, short range thanks to forgoing a halberd/glaive. This all translates to the feat going to waste. spear and shield is just baby damage, you'd be better off spamming EB, which brings me to my next point.
I'd recommend fey touched. Having a free misty step a day is awesome! Even if you insist on keeping spear and shield, the ability to close a distance is crucial for melee. Anything else you can pick, though dissonant whispers has nice synergy in situations where you're ganging up on a monster with your team mates, then you all get oppies. bonus points if you have warcaster so you can apply booming blade.
By improving CHA, you increase so much related to it, your skills, your to-hit, your damage, your CHA save (rare, but still). PAM just does combat related stuff, and your CHA might do better there when it comes to spamming EB. I personally wouldn't recommend upping your con, it's fine. You'd go from having a mediocre con to slightly better con, but nothing to write home about. Shoring up weaknesses is silly cause your team mates can do that for you, just focus on improving YOUR STRENGTHS!
One other reason I’d be tempted to pick up PAM at level 4: Eldritch smite comes on line at level 5. Even without hex or hexblades curse, 3 attacks in a turn increases the chance of a critical strike, which feels oh so good with a mighty smite that blows actual Paladin smites out of the water.
Personally I'd go PAM, that is the play style you want to play so get it as early as possible. If you keep taking ASI, or even fey touched by the time you finally take PAM the campaign will almost be over and you wont get to use your desired play style for long. I'd rather play my play style but slightly less effectively from the get go.
I am playing a Hexblade (5 atm) and I am also considering going for PAM, but have chosen to delay it to level 8. I am in a better position than you however, since I have already got a 20 in Cha. If I were you I would definitely try to get at least an 18 Cha at level 4 by taking either Elven Accuracy (if available) or Fey Touched at level 4 to get to 18 cha.
This means your potential melee damage is lower than if you chose PAM at level 4, but your damage will be more consistent, since you will have a netter chance to hit, both with EB and melee attacks.
Imho level 8 is when the Hexblade really starts to shine. Pick up Eldritch smile by this point and combine it with Shadow of Moil and PAM at level 8 for some really bonkers melee shenanigans. If you lack Warcaster Feat I would advice sticking to spear + shield to get some additional defense. You will still get three attacks with advantage pr round and throw on a smite in the mix + Hexblade's Curse and you are looking at some really nice dpr.
Take a feat like shadow that gives you a plus one to your cha
I don't think Hex is great on a high level slot.If you want to keep using Hex I would get it through Fey touched or magic initiate so I could use it on a free slot. Fey touched would be a great feat to boost your charisma to 18.
Also Hex is not going to work well using a spear and shield because it has a material component. You will need to drop your spear and pull out a mustard seed or a focus to cast hex, then you have no weapon to attack with. If you are going sword and board I would recommend you switch to a staff which does the damage as a spear, does better damage type and can double as a spell focus. It also works with PAM if you get the feat. If you are dead set on using a spear and not a staff I would look at ditching Hex and getting Hunters Mark through Fey Touched since it has no material or somatic component. Hex is a better spell though.
I think generally Fey Touched with Hex is going to give you more than PAM will give you, PAM will also give you a reaction attack too. When you get 3rd level slots you can play the "concentrate through a short rest" games if it is on your list through Fey Touched and then you can cast it again for free if you use concentration.
I don't think Eldritch Smite blows Paladin Smite out of the water because you have so few of them. Crit fishing is ok, but then you run into the problem you might get the crit when it is not ideal. For example, you are round 4 into a battle and you roll your first crit. 10d8 damage is great but now the enemies are all almost dead anyway. Also keep in mind if you are using a reach weapon and knock an enemy prone you will be at disadvantage to hit him unless you move closer and all your ranged and reach allies will be at disadvantage too. I think something like SOM in round 1 is going to give you a lot more mileage.
I have never really seen this work well in play. If you cast SOM then you only have 1 spell slot left, so you can Eldritch Smite 1 time and it sucks up your only remaining spell slot and an invocation slot to deal an extra 5d8 damage and knock a guy prone once?
A couple of thoughts:
1. Is PAM worth it when you might also have Hex eating your bonus action. Yes it can be. I played a spear/shield PAM ranger which functions similarly and it was worth it. You will nearly always be using your bonus action. That is not bad. The reaction attack on incoming foes happens reasonably often. I would recommend the eldritch mind invocation when you get the chance to take it since you will be taking damage. Spirit Shroud will eventually be better and worth shifting to from Hex. Its a good choice for any martial character and combined with hex its a good approach.
2. Should you boost your charisma. Yeah probably. With an odd charisma you can even that out for another +1 to hit. Fey touched is the go to one here since it gets you two great spells that immediately help you (misty step saves lives, and your choice of Hex/Bless/etc.). The other part here is it allows the game to come to you more. If you find a great magic weapon you aren't locked into polearms and can take advantage of it. When you choose PAM early you lock in your play style and try to dictate to the game. Its not that PAM isn't worth it, but that Fey Touched is also worth it for different reasons.
3. Fey touched options:
Hex - the higher level you get the more painful it is to use a high level slot with hex and you it makes it slightly disposable which is nice.
Bless - an encounter distorting spell at all levels. If you can cast it before combat (and not burn a round on it) it produces damage roughly equal to hex for you and total does more because for your 2 friends you have blessed. If you combine with PAM you also don't have to sacrifice your bonus action attack.
Dissonant Whispers - I love casting this on an enemy with multiple people around it and doing damage and forcing opportunity attacks. Warlocks tend to concentrate on spells and this is a nice thing you don't have to.