I’m planning on joining a campaign with the following characters: Taxabi: Way of the Four Elements
Owlin: Arcane Trickster
Changeling: College of Lore
Air Genasi: Divine Soul/Hexblade
Aarakokra: Fighter?
I normally play a Celestial Warlock, but I haven’t been in any dire situations in my oneshots where I’ve had to heal anyone, and even if I had we had a Cleric normally that I don’t believe will be playing with us.
I realize healers aren’t essential, but party balance is. I realize there are technically two Warlocks, but according to everyone’s character sheet so far I’m the only healer as well as the only one i know of taking any kind of disguise or utility abilities.
so what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have a Celestial Warlock be the only healer, or does this team require something different? What character would you be if you were to join this party? Also, what classes could my picture icon fit the role of that would help here? Wizard? Artificer!? Blood Hunter!?!
First off. Every character if they can should figure out how to heal some. Leaving it to one character is an unfair burden. The bard should have a healing spell, the Divine soul should have a healing spell. Ideally one should take the healer feat or inspiring leader. Someone can get herbalism and make healing potions. In the particular party case you are proposing this is even more critical. But healing isn't your biggest problem.
I played a cel-lock in a party without a cleric/druid and it was very rough. Every party ideally needs to be able to at any moment cast the following: Lesser Restoration, Revivify, Greater Restoration, Remove Curse, Dispel Magic If the warlock is the only party member who can cast these things then they can never use all their spell slots. You will just be eldritch blasting, and most of your known spells will be tied up in things you only cast if things go wrong. The route around this is for the other party members to contribute where possible, but spread it throughout the party. Bard takes a couple of these, the warlock can grab dispel magic/remove curse.
As for the actual healing. One Cel-Lock can't keep up. Not possible. In general one healer (non life cleric) can't keep up. And what happens when the healer goes down? The best you can do is keep yourself up and occasionally bonus action pick people up who have been dropped. You will spend a lot of time with whiny players asking for healing. Your d6's aren't for recovering hp. They are for taking guys at 0 to standing.
I see. I’ll have to make sure to discuss this with everyone in session zero. I’m worried about being stuck with most of the healing. I can’t be certain how long they have been playing, but I’ve only been playing for a few sessions total, mostly oneshots. This is my first serious campaign if i do join. I’m not sure if i could handle playing a Cleric, let alone a Druid with all their wild shapes.
Worst case scenario, i was able to add all of the spells you mentioned to my “planned” build. I guess I would save all my slots for those spells. What order of importance do you think they come in so i can plan my build accordingly? right now I’m not sure whether remove curse or dispell magic should come first. So, tell me what you think. Any other feedback?
I played one level 1-8. It worked well. No one died. I went tome for the rituals for some extra casting options. I didn’t bother with hex. I also had the chef feat (vhuman), to help out with short rest hit die. Then took fey touched for misty step and command, because that’s pretty fun.
My big problem (as elfdope explains) was once I had revivify, I kind of only had one spell slot instead of 2, because I always saved one in case someone needed revivify. So there was some interesting strategy in which other spell to use, and when. But once I did, it was just EB. Otherwise I used healing light as basically healing word.
Overall, I’d say I didn’t love it. But I’d also never played a warlock before, and think at least part of it was finding out I don’t really enjoy warlocks in general.
i always assumed go pact of the chain for the gift of the ever-living ones/healing light combo, but it does overlap with a racial ability of mine. Plus I’m not really the one meant to be healed. It does push back eldritch mind if I go with the tome’s eldritch invocations, but if I’m focusing more on healing and extra damage than anything else I guess it doesn’t matter so much.
i still plan on keeping Hex just because of how good it can be, but if anyone has a better idea of what spell(s) i should take, I’m open to learn them.
I often find myself just using eldritch blast anyway without much else of a purpose in my one-shots, so in a sense it doesn’t bother me as is it really all I know. Nothing more and certainly nothing less as I’ve seen it do things single handedly others require spell slots or to be up-close and personal for.
i know I’m no expert, but I’d recommend trying the warlock class again, maybe not as a healer or the only one.
Anyway, I tried implementing pact of the tome. Not sure if it’s showing the updated data yet or not. Let me know what you think:
Link doesn’t work for me. The other big thing about tome is Gift of the Protectors at level 9, but I never got to use that.
Just in general, I played it more as not trying to keep people healed as much as just to stop them dying. If I happened to have a spell slot when we were about to short rest I’d give someone a cure wounds, but mostly it was just healing light and chef that did the healing.
One thing I constantly forgot was using the chef feature that lets you give out temp hp on a LR. It was only a couple points, but every little bit can help.
Looking at party composition. I would recommend really pairing up with your lore bard for spell selection. They have access to some of the spells you will be taking. As a spells known caster they will also need to plan out ahead what they will be taking. Long term it is of little value for you to have lesser restoration, but the bard can cover it (the bard has 2nd level slots and at 10th level they will easily be able to burn those, while you would be needing to use one of 2 5th level slots you have on a second level spell). Revivify doesn't need to be on everyone's sheet so you should take that. Its not a bad idea for both of you to have greater restoration. I would ideally ask the other warlock to grab remove curse (not something you need to double up on). Spell selection with spells known should be a team effort.
Gift of the ever loving ones with celestial is a good combination. Those d6's are pretty underwhelming for healing, but if they are always a 6 that is pretty great. Also upcast cure wounds right before a short rest is amazing and a highly efficient use of healing.
Personally I played pact of the tome, and it was an excellent support option and provided a lot of out of combat utility. I think I slightly favor pact of the chain and the combo with gift of the ever loving ones is great. Also at 10th level you can gift your familiar temp HP with Celestial Resilience.
Hu. I’m surprised about the link. Then again, I never really tried to visit the link outside my logon profile. Sorry about that!
i understand about just bringing them back from the brink. Do you really think I need cure wounds too? I have to figure out where to put the chef feat also. Currently I’m running Actor, +2 Int, Tough, +2 Con and +2 Con to maximize both my Charisma as well as my Health for Searing Vengeance. I could get rid of tough I guess. Or I could go Custom Linage and pick it up that way, although I kind of like my Verdan race.
i see your logic about lesser restoration, so I’ll go back to the recommended spells (Hold Person and Suggestion.) Anyone look at Arcane Eye.com? Just curious. I think I will go back to pact of the chain too. Anyway, what about dispel magic? Should I go ahead and keep that one?
Cure Wounds on a short rest caster like Warlock can be very powerful. You get through a fight the fighter takes a bunch of damage and is barely up. You have a spell slot left. You cast Cure Wounds (upcasted on the fighter) and everyone takes a short rest. Now you didn't have to spend as many hit dice to heal the fighter. When you get the 3rd spell slot at 11th this happens a lot.
Ok. I went ahead and put it at the top of the list.
Speaking of which, since my character sheet links don’t seem to be working, here are my planned spells ib tge order I intend to take them.
1. Cure wounds
1. Guiding bolt
2. Hex
3. Lesser Restoration
4. Protection from Evil and Good
5. Revivify
6. Hypnotic Pattern
7. Wall of Fire
8. Banishment
9. Greater Restoration
10. Dispel Magic
12. Remove Curse
14. Enervation
16. Synaptic Static
18. Flame Strike
By all means let me know if you agree or disagree with any of them or the order in which I take them. Sorry if the level I obtain them is wrong; I did this part without going step by step through the leveling process.
I'd look at sickening radiance (4th level spell). Its a really strong spell, especially when you can you your eldritch blast to knock people back into it after they leave. Just make sure a persistent area effect synergizes well with your group. That your melee types can stand just outside it, basically, and still do their thing. I also got a lot of use from flaming sphere at low levels -- it does good damage and also acts well as battlefield control, as you can basically force the enemies to move.
In general, I liked concentration spells for my Celestial warlock, or just generally spells that can last a while. When you're only going to really cast one per encounter (since you save the other for healing purposes) it helps to get some extra mileage from the ones you do cast.
Are you thinking Sickening Radiance over Wall of Fire? i’m trying not to take too many extra lesser than 5th level spells, so I’d probably be replacing 4th level with 4th level and so on.
based on what you said about concentration, should ai get rid of my extra 1st level spell guiding bolt in favor of flaming sphere? I’ve heard a lot of good things about it.
Here’s my revised list based on everyone I’ve asked so far. Please let me know what you think by comparison:
It’s really kind of impossible to say of WoF vs SR. A lot will be campaign dependent on what spells will work better than others. And then situational to each encounter. Sometimes wall of fire is the better call, sometimes it’s sickening radiance. I mean, you can get into the metagaming aspect of a dex save vs a con save, and fire damage being resisted more than radiant, but in the end, neither will be perfect every time. (Unless someone else in the party has forcecage. Then you take SR and just microwave the bad guys.) As far as guiding bolt, I have a personal bias against it, because I never seem to be able to hit with the thing. Just bad luck really. That said, I’d still take something like flaming sphere over it. Guiding bolt you get one chance, and if you miss, there goes your spell slot. Flaming sphere and other persistent effects, you still use one slot, but you can keep using it for the whole fight. So if you miss once, you still get another chance. And even when you’re not actively ramming it into people, you can use it to control a 3x3 area and chase enemies away or create a choke point.
Is it worth getting rid of banishment or far step to run both wall of fire and sickening radiance? Banishment is highly rated and I’ve seen it in action at my own table, but it’s my only other 4th level spell. Far step was my own idea since I don’t have misty step or anything similar and is a 5th level move to match my spell slots, but it is a worse move and is not recommended as much online. Wall of fire is rather iconic and fitting for my character and is ranked the highest of the four spells. Plus it levels up to 5th level. As you said though, plenty of things resist it. Upon review, I don’t understand why sickening radiance isn’t ranked higher. Perhaps it doesn’t go up to level 5? Then comes the order of how soon over the other spells to take it.
At least replacing guiding bolt with flaming sphere seemed like an easy enough decision due to having an extra first level slot.
For now I’ll just replace Far Step with Wall of Fire, but everyone feel free to let me know what changed you would make. Special thanks to Xalthu and Elfdope.
if you're looking for movement type spells, I'd suggest taking a hard look at the fey touched feat. +1 to cha, misty step (free 1/day) and another spell free 1/day (for example hex or command or silvery barbs) Plus, both spells get added to your spell list, so you can also cast them with slots (though it stays at first level with no free upcast, at least that's how I read it.) Even so, it's practically a must take for a warlock. There's a few other 1/2 feats like that that give you a spell which is a great way to add some versatility and more chances to cast per day. Or a strixhaven background, which then gives you a couple cantrips and other spells. or both a strixhaven and some 1/2 feats.
Far step's big problem is it using your concentration. Hopefully, you can get out of danger and not be back in it every round.
Banishment is a really high risk/high reward spell. If you have a boss from another plane, you can potentially 1-shot them. Or it can do nothing. Also, depending on what you're doing as far as adopting the 2024 rules, banishment got nerfed. At least it did in the playtest.
We’re still using ‘14 rules as far as I know. I guess the question now is which spell should I take in place of banishment. I already have 2 level 4 spells, so a level 5 one would be ideal, but I think I have all the recommended ones.
As far as what to take with Fey Touched, the bard and sorcerer both have access to silvery barbs. I’m not sure about command either. I could use Fey Touched to get Hex though wince I gave it up for spells that can upcast as my spellslots level up!
i’m kind of attached to my current background Celerity Adventurer’s Scion. It gets me the last of the four Charisma based abilities as well as perception. Also, I’ve heard some people think some of the backgrounds like Wildspacer are OP, and while my DM basically said “anything goes,” I’d rather not push it.
i originally wanted to run an actor/mask of many faces build, but with a changeling in the party that I would assume is taking actor also, is having one “master of disguise” in the party enough?
This would give me a chance to use Investment of the Chain Master instead of Mask of Many Faces at level 3. Or should I keep mask of many faces anyway?
I’m planning on joining a campaign with the following characters:
Taxabi: Way of the Four Elements
Owlin: Arcane Trickster
Changeling: College of Lore
Air Genasi: Divine Soul/Hexblade
Aarakokra: Fighter?
I normally play a Celestial Warlock, but I haven’t been in any dire situations in my oneshots where I’ve had to heal anyone, and even if I had we had a Cleric normally that I don’t believe will be playing with us.
I realize healers aren’t essential, but party balance is. I realize there are technically two Warlocks, but according to everyone’s character sheet so far I’m the only healer as well as the only one i know of taking any kind of disguise or utility abilities.
so what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have a Celestial Warlock be the only healer, or does this team require something different? What character would you be if you were to join this party? Also, what classes could my picture icon fit the role of that would help here? Wizard? Artificer!? Blood Hunter!?!
First off. Every character if they can should figure out how to heal some. Leaving it to one character is an unfair burden. The bard should have a healing spell, the Divine soul should have a healing spell. Ideally one should take the healer feat or inspiring leader. Someone can get herbalism and make healing potions. In the particular party case you are proposing this is even more critical. But healing isn't your biggest problem.
I played a cel-lock in a party without a cleric/druid and it was very rough. Every party ideally needs to be able to at any moment cast the following:
Lesser Restoration, Revivify, Greater Restoration, Remove Curse, Dispel Magic
If the warlock is the only party member who can cast these things then they can never use all their spell slots. You will just be eldritch blasting, and most of your known spells will be tied up in things you only cast if things go wrong. The route around this is for the other party members to contribute where possible, but spread it throughout the party. Bard takes a couple of these, the warlock can grab dispel magic/remove curse.
As for the actual healing. One Cel-Lock can't keep up. Not possible. In general one healer (non life cleric) can't keep up. And what happens when the healer goes down? The best you can do is keep yourself up and occasionally bonus action pick people up who have been dropped. You will spend a lot of time with whiny players asking for healing. Your d6's aren't for recovering hp. They are for taking guys at 0 to standing.
I see. I’ll have to make sure to discuss this with everyone in session zero.
I’m worried about being stuck with most of the healing. I can’t be certain how long they have been playing, but I’ve only been playing for a few sessions total, mostly oneshots. This is my first serious campaign if i do join. I’m not sure if i could handle playing a Cleric, let alone a Druid with all their wild shapes.
Worst case scenario, i was able to add all of the spells you mentioned to my “planned” build. I guess I would save all my slots for those spells. What order of importance do you think they come in so i can plan my build accordingly? right now I’m not sure whether remove curse or dispell magic should come first.
So, tell me what you think. Any other feedback?
www.dndbeyond.com/sheet-pdfs/Actionsparda_127094857.pdf
I played one level 1-8. It worked well. No one died. I went tome for the rituals for some extra casting options. I didn’t bother with hex.
I also had the chef feat (vhuman), to help out with short rest hit die. Then took fey touched for misty step and command, because that’s pretty fun.
My big problem (as elfdope explains) was once I had revivify, I kind of only had one spell slot instead of 2, because I always saved one in case someone needed revivify. So there was some interesting strategy in which other spell to use, and when. But once I did, it was just EB.
Otherwise I used healing light as basically healing word.
Overall, I’d say I didn’t love it. But I’d also never played a warlock before, and think at least part of it was finding out I don’t really enjoy warlocks in general.
Interesting. Thanks for the feedback!
i always assumed go pact of the chain for the gift of the ever-living ones/healing light combo, but it does overlap with a racial ability of mine. Plus I’m not really the one meant to be healed. It does push back eldritch mind if I go with the tome’s eldritch invocations, but if I’m focusing more on healing and extra damage than anything else I guess it doesn’t matter so much.
i still plan on keeping Hex just because of how good it can be, but if anyone has a better idea of what spell(s) i should take, I’m open to learn them.
I often find myself just using eldritch blast anyway without much else of a purpose in my one-shots, so in a sense it doesn’t bother me as is it really all I know. Nothing more and certainly nothing less as I’ve seen it do things single handedly others require spell slots or to be up-close and personal for.
i know I’m no expert, but I’d recommend trying the warlock class again, maybe not as a healer or the only one.
Anyway, I tried implementing pact of the tome. Not sure if it’s showing the updated data yet or not. Let me know what you think:
http://www.dndbeyond.com/sheet-pdfs/Actionsparda_127094857.pdf
Link doesn’t work for me.
The other big thing about tome is Gift of the Protectors at level 9, but I never got to use that.
Just in general, I played it more as not trying to keep people healed as much as just to stop them dying. If I happened to have a spell slot when we were about to short rest I’d give someone a cure wounds, but mostly it was just healing light and chef that did the healing.
One thing I constantly forgot was using the chef feature that lets you give out temp hp on a LR. It was only a couple points, but every little bit can help.
Looking at party composition. I would recommend really pairing up with your lore bard for spell selection. They have access to some of the spells you will be taking. As a spells known caster they will also need to plan out ahead what they will be taking. Long term it is of little value for you to have lesser restoration, but the bard can cover it (the bard has 2nd level slots and at 10th level they will easily be able to burn those, while you would be needing to use one of 2 5th level slots you have on a second level spell). Revivify doesn't need to be on everyone's sheet so you should take that. Its not a bad idea for both of you to have greater restoration. I would ideally ask the other warlock to grab remove curse (not something you need to double up on). Spell selection with spells known should be a team effort.
Gift of the ever loving ones with celestial is a good combination. Those d6's are pretty underwhelming for healing, but if they are always a 6 that is pretty great. Also upcast cure wounds right before a short rest is amazing and a highly efficient use of healing.
Personally I played pact of the tome, and it was an excellent support option and provided a lot of out of combat utility. I think I slightly favor pact of the chain and the combo with gift of the ever loving ones is great. Also at 10th level you can gift your familiar temp HP with Celestial Resilience.
Hu. I’m surprised about the link. Then again, I never really tried to visit the link outside my logon profile. Sorry about that!
i understand about just bringing them back from the brink. Do you really think I need cure wounds too? I have to figure out where to put the chef feat also. Currently I’m running Actor, +2 Int, Tough, +2 Con and +2 Con to maximize both my Charisma as well as my Health for Searing Vengeance. I could get rid of tough I guess. Or I could go Custom Linage and pick it up that way, although I kind of like my Verdan race.
i see your logic about lesser restoration, so I’ll go back to the recommended spells (Hold Person and Suggestion.) Anyone look at Arcane Eye.com? Just curious. I think I will go back to pact of the chain too. Anyway, what about dispel magic? Should I go ahead and keep that one?
Thank you both so much for your feedback!
Any polite replies are always welcome. :)
Cure Wounds on a short rest caster like Warlock can be very powerful. You get through a fight the fighter takes a bunch of damage and is barely up. You have a spell slot left. You cast Cure Wounds (upcasted on the fighter) and everyone takes a short rest. Now you didn't have to spend as many hit dice to heal the fighter. When you get the 3rd spell slot at 11th this happens a lot.
Ok. I went ahead and put it at the top of the list.
Speaking of which, since my character sheet links don’t seem to be working, here are my planned spells ib tge order I intend to take them.
1. Cure wounds
1. Guiding bolt
2. Hex
3. Lesser Restoration
4. Protection from Evil and Good
5. Revivify
6. Hypnotic Pattern
7. Wall of Fire
8. Banishment
9. Greater Restoration
10. Dispel Magic
12. Remove Curse
14. Enervation
16. Synaptic Static
18. Flame Strike
By all means let me know if you agree or disagree with any of them or the order in which I take them. Sorry if the level I obtain them is wrong; I did this part without going step by step through the leveling process.
I'd look at sickening radiance (4th level spell). Its a really strong spell, especially when you can you your eldritch blast to knock people back into it after they leave. Just make sure a persistent area effect synergizes well with your group. That your melee types can stand just outside it, basically, and still do their thing. I also got a lot of use from flaming sphere at low levels -- it does good damage and also acts well as battlefield control, as you can basically force the enemies to move.
In general, I liked concentration spells for my Celestial warlock, or just generally spells that can last a while. When you're only going to really cast one per encounter (since you save the other for healing purposes) it helps to get some extra mileage from the ones you do cast.
Are you thinking Sickening Radiance over Wall of Fire?
i’m trying not to take too many extra lesser than 5th level spells, so I’d probably be replacing 4th level with 4th level and so on.
based on what you said about concentration, should ai get rid of my extra 1st level spell guiding bolt in favor of flaming sphere? I’ve heard a lot of good things about it.
Here’s my revised list based on everyone I’ve asked so far. Please let me know what you think by comparison:
1. Cure wounds
1. Hellish Rebuke
2. Armor of Agathys
3. Lesser Restoration
4. Flaming Sphere
5. Revivify
6. Hypnotic Pattern
7. Sickening Radiance
8. Banishment
9. Greater Restoration
10. Far Step
12. Enervation
14. Synaptic Static
16. Flame Strike
18. Dream
It’s really kind of impossible to say of WoF vs SR. A lot will be campaign dependent on what spells will work better than others. And then situational to each encounter. Sometimes wall of fire is the better call, sometimes it’s sickening radiance. I mean, you can get into the metagaming aspect of a dex save vs a con save, and fire damage being resisted more than radiant, but in the end, neither will be perfect every time. (Unless someone else in the party has forcecage. Then you take SR and just microwave the bad guys.)
As far as guiding bolt, I have a personal bias against it, because I never seem to be able to hit with the thing. Just bad luck really. That said, I’d still take something like flaming sphere over it. Guiding bolt you get one chance, and if you miss, there goes your spell slot. Flaming sphere and other persistent effects, you still use one slot, but you can keep using it for the whole fight. So if you miss once, you still get another chance. And even when you’re not actively ramming it into people, you can use it to control a 3x3 area and chase enemies away or create a choke point.
Is it worth getting rid of banishment or far step to run both wall of fire and sickening radiance?
Banishment is highly rated and I’ve seen it in action at my own table, but it’s my only other 4th level spell. Far step was my own idea since I don’t have misty step or anything similar and is a 5th level move to match my spell slots, but it is a worse move and is not recommended as much online. Wall of fire is rather iconic and fitting for my character and is ranked the highest of the four spells. Plus it levels up to 5th level. As you said though, plenty of things resist it. Upon review, I don’t understand why sickening radiance isn’t ranked higher. Perhaps it doesn’t go up to level 5? Then comes the order of how soon over the other spells to take it.
At least replacing guiding bolt with flaming sphere seemed like an easy enough decision due to having an extra first level slot.
For now I’ll just replace Far Step with Wall of Fire, but everyone feel free to let me know what changed you would make. Special thanks to Xalthu and Elfdope.
1. Cure wounds
1. Hellish Rebuke
2. Armor of Agathys
3. Lesser Restoration
4. Flaming Sphere
5. Revivify
6. Hypnotic Pattern
7. Sickening Radiance
8. Banishment
9. Greater Restoration
10. Wall of Fire
12. Enervation
14. Synaptic Static
16. Flame Strike
18. Dream
if you're looking for movement type spells, I'd suggest taking a hard look at the fey touched feat. +1 to cha, misty step (free 1/day) and another spell free 1/day (for example hex or command or silvery barbs) Plus, both spells get added to your spell list, so you can also cast them with slots (though it stays at first level with no free upcast, at least that's how I read it.) Even so, it's practically a must take for a warlock. There's a few other 1/2 feats like that that give you a spell which is a great way to add some versatility and more chances to cast per day. Or a strixhaven background, which then gives you a couple cantrips and other spells. or both a strixhaven and some 1/2 feats.
Far step's big problem is it using your concentration. Hopefully, you can get out of danger and not be back in it every round.
Banishment is a really high risk/high reward spell. If you have a boss from another plane, you can potentially 1-shot them. Or it can do nothing. Also, depending on what you're doing as far as adopting the 2024 rules, banishment got nerfed. At least it did in the playtest.
We’re still using ‘14 rules as far as I know.
I guess the question now is which spell should I take in place of banishment. I already have 2 level 4 spells, so a level 5 one would be ideal, but I think I have all the recommended ones.
As far as what to take with Fey Touched, the bard and sorcerer both have access to silvery barbs. I’m not sure about command either. I could use Fey Touched to get Hex though wince I gave it up for spells that can upcast as my spellslots level up!
i’m kind of attached to my current background Celerity Adventurer’s Scion. It gets me the last of the four Charisma based abilities as well as perception. Also, I’ve heard some people think some of the backgrounds like Wildspacer are OP, and while my DM basically said “anything goes,” I’d rather not push it.
i originally wanted to run an actor/mask of many faces build, but with a changeling in the party that I would assume is taking actor also, is having one “master of disguise” in the party enough?
This would give me a chance to use Investment of the Chain Master instead of Mask of Many Faces at level 3. Or should I keep mask of many faces anyway?