Pretty much the title. Would you guys recommend taking Fly or Banishment for a 7th level Great Old One Tomelock? For reference, I am in the Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign. My party also includes an Aarocokra Monk (who can already fly), two barbs, and a rogue. My other spells include Evard's Black Tentacles, Hypnotic Pattern, Charm Person, Counterspell, Invisibility, Hex, and Thunder Step. I can make two other party members fly with the Aarokocra, or hopefully remove the biggest threat for a time. Thoughts and advice would be welcome, thanks in advance!
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there's a Bard as well, but his presence at the table isn't always guaranteed.
This is my opinion only and it’s worth what you paid for it.
I personally hate the Fly spell in 5e due to the concentration mechanic. It’s great until you take damage and miss your concentration roll, then all of a sudden someone is falling and is taking massive amounts of falling damage unless they have Feather Fall ready to go. I prefer Levitate even though it’s much less useful because it has survival built into it.
Banishment scales at 9th level to two targets for a warlock, which almost always guarantees that you’ll succeed at banishing one of your targets. It requires a Charisma saving throw which is very uncommon and if it’s worth using one spell slot to banish an opponent it’s worth using your second one the next round if your first one fails. It’s a heavy hitter spell that really isn’t worth using most of the time, especially when you’re a warlock. No single target spell other than a cantrip that doesn’t do anything when it’s target makes the save is all that great for a warlock because you only have 2 spell slots. I love playing warlock’s, they’re my favorite class, but they’re limited.
Thank you for the response! I am definitely inclined to agree with you, and I think I will take Banishment. Unless you think there are any other spells worth taking at this level that would be more effective?
My 4th level warlock is going to swap out a combat spell for a non combat spell at 5th level. I’ve found that I use spells rarely enough in combat due to the 2 spell slots per short rest challenge that having spells that are useful out of combat too is incredibly useful. But that’s very dependent on the campaign.
I'd say it depends on your spell save DC. Banishment is an all or nothing spell; if your target saves, the spell slot is wasted. So don't take it unless you have a decent spell save DC.
I'll admit I'm biased on this point; I chose Banishment when my Warlock reached 7th level, and it did not work one single f*****g time. I finally swapped it out after a monster saved v. Banishment, then swallowed another party member whole the next round and killed them. I felt kinda like that was my fault.
If you take Fly, I'd recommend grabbing the Resilient: Constitution Feat when you reach 8th level. Warcaster would also help. Either one makes those Concentration checks a lot easier.
I forgot to mention that I do have Warcaster and a fairly high DC due to Rod of the Pact Keeper and a very friendly DM. Are there any other spells I should consider that may be better than either of these options in your experience?
With Hypnotic Pattern and Black Tentacles you already have control so Fly would give you added utility. Whereas many mention concentration it’s important to remember that Fly is good outside of combat for all kinds of encounters whereas Banishment is largely limited to combat.
Also, the concentration issue exists for Banishment since failing concentration check causes the bad guy to return.
My Warlock has both and I’ve used Fly many times but Banishment only once and in that case it was just used to get everyone into position to crush the bad guy when it returned.
I forgot to mention that I do have Warcaster and a fairly high DC due to Rod of the Pact Keeper and a very friendly DM. Are there any other spells I should consider that may be better than either of these options in your experience?
I've had good results with Sickening Radiance. The area is huge, and inflicting exhaustion on your enemies is good. Revealing invisible enemies is also useful at times. You have a limited number of spells known, so spells with multiple effects are valuable additions to your list.
Sickening Radiance works best if you have a way to keep your targets from escaping the area of effect. I'm playing a Feylock so I use Plant Growth (1/4 movement is a nightmare). For the Great Old Ones, Repelling Blast would be a good option. I'd recommend that for your 7th level Invocation for a killer combo: cast Sickening Radiance, then use Repelling Blast on anyone who tries to escape its AoE.
Regarding Fly: I waited until 11th level and took Investiture of Wind as a flight spell. Again, multiple uses made it a valuable pick. It not only gives me a flying speed of 60, but ranged weapon attacks have disadvantage, and I have a "whirlwind" attack with a 60 foot range.
I'd say it depends on your spell save DC. Banishment is an all or nothing spell; if your target saves, the spell slot is wasted. So don't take it unless you have a decent spell save DC.
I'll admit I'm biased on this point; I chose Banishment when my Warlock reached 7th level, and it did not work one single f*****g time. I finally swapped it out after a monster saved v. Banishment, then swallowed another party member whole the next round and killed them. I felt kinda like that was my fault.
If you take Fly, I'd recommend grabbing the Resilient: Constitution Feat when you reach 8th level. Warcaster would also help. Either one makes those Concentration checks a lot easier.
I’ve had the opposite experience with Banishment. Every time my warlock used it it worked. But I didn’t use it often, I picked my targets carefully so that they weren’t likely to have high charisma saves.
Honestly taking fly isn't a bad choice, but banishment is likely more immediately useful. Being able to emergency poke the rest of the party and have everyone fly somewhere, either to pursue or flee from an enemy, is great utility. I'd say replace charm person for fly and just take both.
I'm similar, but pact of the fey. I took fly for different reasons, namely because as the weakest party member physically, fly gives me a lot of utility in multiple situations to get to where I need to be, or away from whatever is trying to beat my face in. I even used it to get off a sinking ship. Because banishment is concentration, the spell can end on damage and the creature pops back into play, and we've had a lot more chances to use fly -even out of combat- than I might have had with banishment.
However, this may also get to party composition and the way your DM sets up combat - we have almost similar parties: 2 barbarians, 1 paladin, 1 bard, 1 Rogue, and myself. However, we've had at least 4 combats at extensive range, so fly, along with Misty escape, has become useful. I'm even thinking of taking spell sniper at 8th to increase all ranged to hit spells. In combination with at least two out of combat uses that I can remember in the last 3 sessions alone, Fly works for me. But it might not apply for what you've got going on
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May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
Very interesting how our party compositions and characters are almost the same! I think I will take Banishment now and pick up Fly at the next level. Thank you for the input!
Thank you all for your replies! I think I am going to take Banishment now, then Fly at a later level. Couple of reasons for this: Banishment will be more immediately useful for the next tough stretch of our campaign, which takes place underwater (infiltrate a Sahuigin stronghold, where Fly will not be useful at all); the Aaracokra Monk lends us some air support for the time being if it is needed, and she's a better and faster flyer than we would be anyway; and finally the overall campaign we are running is Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so I'm curious if fly will be as helpful/powerful in a campaign that I imagine will have a lot of water-based adventuring. To be completely honest, I find the flavor of the Banishment spell pretty bland, but it is no doubt effective, so that is what I will do for now. Hopefully it's the right choice! Thanks again for all of the advice!
the overall campaign we are running is Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so I'm curious if fly will be as helpful/powerful in a campaign that I imagine will have a lot of water-based adventuring
Funny! We were based in Saltmarsh for a long time, having recently departed with a cloud giant for at least a temporary period. Sounds like we're a very similar party makeup!
Edit: you're welcome! Much luck and success to you!
Alot of it depends on your campaign and DM. We just go through a campaign where we were fighting lots of fiends. My level 9 Warlock was double banishing fiends permanently back to Hell left and right. Saved our team many times. Now we are moving into a long term conflict with Illithids and I probably will switch out Banishment for Sickening Radiance since my warlock would imagine they have a lower Con save than Charisma.
That's true, and I don't know how many extra-planar threats there are in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but taking out the most dangerous threat even if only for a minute at most is worth it since Fly's usefulness is probably limited in a primarily sea-based campaign.
I’m running a home brewed aquatic campaign right now and one of the PCs is an aarakocra and his flight has dramatically changed the campaign! When they’re outside he’s much more mobile than anyone else and he uses it extremely well! When they’re inside his flight doesn’t have any effect of course. They’ve stayed on the surface of the water so far, and when they venture under the waves his flight won’t have any impact.
For ship to ship encounters flight is awesome by the way! Being able to get up into the crow’s nest in one round, or fly over to an empty crow’s nest on another ship is very useful. Of course the danger of falling into the water is also pretty scary!
Oh yeah, flight is absolutely amazing! I confess, I have another reason for not taking flight yet. My wife is the aarakocra monk and I don't want her to feel less badass when everybody else can fly with her :)
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Pretty much the title. Would you guys recommend taking Fly or Banishment for a 7th level Great Old One Tomelock? For reference, I am in the Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign. My party also includes an Aarocokra Monk (who can already fly), two barbs, and a rogue. My other spells include Evard's Black Tentacles, Hypnotic Pattern, Charm Person, Counterspell, Invisibility, Hex, and Thunder Step. I can make two other party members fly with the Aarokocra, or hopefully remove the biggest threat for a time. Thoughts and advice would be welcome, thanks in advance!
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there's a Bard as well, but his presence at the table isn't always guaranteed.
This is my opinion only and it’s worth what you paid for it.
I personally hate the Fly spell in 5e due to the concentration mechanic. It’s great until you take damage and miss your concentration roll, then all of a sudden someone is falling and is taking massive amounts of falling damage unless they have Feather Fall ready to go. I prefer Levitate even though it’s much less useful because it has survival built into it.
Banishment scales at 9th level to two targets for a warlock, which almost always guarantees that you’ll succeed at banishing one of your targets. It requires a Charisma saving throw which is very uncommon and if it’s worth using one spell slot to banish an opponent it’s worth using your second one the next round if your first one fails. It’s a heavy hitter spell that really isn’t worth using most of the time, especially when you’re a warlock. No single target spell other than a cantrip that doesn’t do anything when it’s target makes the save is all that great for a warlock because you only have 2 spell slots. I love playing warlock’s, they’re my favorite class, but they’re limited.
Professional computer geek
Thank you for the response! I am definitely inclined to agree with you, and I think I will take Banishment. Unless you think there are any other spells worth taking at this level that would be more effective?
My 4th level warlock is going to swap out a combat spell for a non combat spell at 5th level. I’ve found that I use spells rarely enough in combat due to the 2 spell slots per short rest challenge that having spells that are useful out of combat too is incredibly useful. But that’s very dependent on the campaign.
Professional computer geek
I'd say it depends on your spell save DC. Banishment is an all or nothing spell; if your target saves, the spell slot is wasted. So don't take it unless you have a decent spell save DC.
I'll admit I'm biased on this point; I chose Banishment when my Warlock reached 7th level, and it did not work one single f*****g time. I finally swapped it out after a monster saved v. Banishment, then swallowed another party member whole the next round and killed them. I felt kinda like that was my fault.
If you take Fly, I'd recommend grabbing the Resilient: Constitution Feat when you reach 8th level. Warcaster would also help. Either one makes those Concentration checks a lot easier.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I forgot to mention that I do have Warcaster and a fairly high DC due to Rod of the Pact Keeper and a very friendly DM. Are there any other spells I should consider that may be better than either of these options in your experience?
With Hypnotic Pattern and Black Tentacles you already have control so Fly would give you added utility. Whereas many mention concentration it’s important to remember that Fly is good outside of combat for all kinds of encounters whereas Banishment is largely limited to combat.
Also, the concentration issue exists for Banishment since failing concentration check causes the bad guy to return.
My Warlock has both and I’ve used Fly many times but Banishment only once and in that case it was just used to get everyone into position to crush the bad guy when it returned.
I've had good results with Sickening Radiance. The area is huge, and inflicting exhaustion on your enemies is good. Revealing invisible enemies is also useful at times. You have a limited number of spells known, so spells with multiple effects are valuable additions to your list.
Sickening Radiance works best if you have a way to keep your targets from escaping the area of effect. I'm playing a Feylock so I use Plant Growth (1/4 movement is a nightmare). For the Great Old Ones, Repelling Blast would be a good option. I'd recommend that for your 7th level Invocation for a killer combo: cast Sickening Radiance, then use Repelling Blast on anyone who tries to escape its AoE.
Regarding Fly: I waited until 11th level and took Investiture of Wind as a flight spell. Again, multiple uses made it a valuable pick. It not only gives me a flying speed of 60, but ranged weapon attacks have disadvantage, and I have a "whirlwind" attack with a 60 foot range.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I’ve had the opposite experience with Banishment. Every time my warlock used it it worked. But I didn’t use it often, I picked my targets carefully so that they weren’t likely to have high charisma saves.
Professional computer geek
Thank you all for your advice! I think I'm going to go with my initial instinct and take Banishment, then take Fly at a later level. Thanks again!
I've had Banishment save the group more than once.
Honestly taking fly isn't a bad choice, but banishment is likely more immediately useful. Being able to emergency poke the rest of the party and have everyone fly somewhere, either to pursue or flee from an enemy, is great utility. I'd say replace charm person for fly and just take both.
I'm similar, but pact of the fey. I took fly for different reasons, namely because as the weakest party member physically, fly gives me a lot of utility in multiple situations to get to where I need to be, or away from whatever is trying to beat my face in. I even used it to get off a sinking ship. Because banishment is concentration, the spell can end on damage and the creature pops back into play, and we've had a lot more chances to use fly -even out of combat- than I might have had with banishment.
However, this may also get to party composition and the way your DM sets up combat - we have almost similar parties: 2 barbarians, 1 paladin, 1 bard, 1 Rogue, and myself. However, we've had at least 4 combats at extensive range, so fly, along with Misty escape, has become useful. I'm even thinking of taking spell sniper at 8th to increase all ranged to hit spells. In combination with at least two out of combat uses that I can remember in the last 3 sessions alone, Fly works for me. But it might not apply for what you've got going on
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
Very interesting how our party compositions and characters are almost the same! I think I will take Banishment now and pick up Fly at the next level. Thank you for the input!
Thank you all for your replies! I think I am going to take Banishment now, then Fly at a later level. Couple of reasons for this: Banishment will be more immediately useful for the next tough stretch of our campaign, which takes place underwater (infiltrate a Sahuigin stronghold, where Fly will not be useful at all); the Aaracokra Monk lends us some air support for the time being if it is needed, and she's a better and faster flyer than we would be anyway; and finally the overall campaign we are running is Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so I'm curious if fly will be as helpful/powerful in a campaign that I imagine will have a lot of water-based adventuring. To be completely honest, I find the flavor of the Banishment spell pretty bland, but it is no doubt effective, so that is what I will do for now. Hopefully it's the right choice! Thanks again for all of the advice!
Funny! We were based in Saltmarsh for a long time, having recently departed with a cloud giant for at least a temporary period. Sounds like we're a very similar party makeup!
Edit: you're welcome! Much luck and success to you!
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
Alot of it depends on your campaign and DM. We just go through a campaign where we were fighting lots of fiends. My level 9 Warlock was double banishing fiends permanently back to Hell left and right. Saved our team many times. Now we are moving into a long term conflict with Illithids and I probably will switch out Banishment for Sickening Radiance since my warlock would imagine they have a lower Con save than Charisma.
That's true, and I don't know how many extra-planar threats there are in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but taking out the most dangerous threat even if only for a minute at most is worth it since Fly's usefulness is probably limited in a primarily sea-based campaign.
I’m running a home brewed aquatic campaign right now and one of the PCs is an aarakocra and his flight has dramatically changed the campaign! When they’re outside he’s much more mobile than anyone else and he uses it extremely well! When they’re inside his flight doesn’t have any effect of course. They’ve stayed on the surface of the water so far, and when they venture under the waves his flight won’t have any impact.
For ship to ship encounters flight is awesome by the way! Being able to get up into the crow’s nest in one round, or fly over to an empty crow’s nest on another ship is very useful. Of course the danger of falling into the water is also pretty scary!
Professional computer geek
Oh yeah, flight is absolutely amazing! I confess, I have another reason for not taking flight yet. My wife is the aarakocra monk and I don't want her to feel less badass when everybody else can fly with her :)