Hey guys, im building a hexblade warlock and looking at Silver Tongued feat now. I want to build a crit fishing build and got some questions about efficiency of ST + Elven Accuracy. Im currently at lvl 2 with 18 cha. Im not good at math and have no idea how to calculate this. If some one is interesting in this, please help me!
I like how ST works both in noncombat (deception profiency) and in combat, combined with hex (easy to put ST on a target)
Lets look and Silver Tongued (1) alone. So, in mundane scenario, Is it worth for a warlock to trade 1 attack to get 3 attacks with an advantage?
2. Does situation different when we add 1d6 from Hex?
3. Does situation different when we add Hexblade curse?
4. What become when we add Elven Accuracy to a ST? Is 3 attacks with 3pl Adv is better than 4 attacks (i think it is, when we fishing for a crits)
5. Is this worse to pick ST , or is this an overkill, when warlock has another ways to gain adv (darkness+eldrich sight, shadow of moil)
6. We can go to 20 cha at lvl 8, using ST and EA, or is it better to take +2 to ASI and another feat (warcaster or GWM as an example)
7. Our obvious choice to gain ADV is to cast darkness. So, in that scenario we need an invocation, a spell slot, we skip 1st turn and deal 0 damage, we can cast hex only on turn 2. But this will combine with warcaster, if target fleeing from you, we can hit it with booming blade.On the other coin, with only ST we can do almoust the same on turn one, but with better (probably) dmg and worse defense. Casting HEX, make ST, do 3 attacks with adv, repeat on turn 2.
8. Shadow of Moil is more comlicated, it can be cast at 7 lvl, but at 8 lvl we already at 20 cha with both ST and EA. Do better with 3pl ADV, but get dis on us, but sacrifising dmg from hex (but getting ~same damage from a MoIl) and component to cast that spell is pretty expensive too, to cast frequently
So, that questions is tearing me apart, i cant decide what is best and may be really overthinking whole situation. Need your fresh thoughts! If anyone is interesting in a subject, leave your comments, ty!
Increase your Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You gain proficiency in the Deception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
• When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one attack with an attempt to deceive one humanoid you can see within 30 feet of you that can see and hear you. Make a Charisma (Deception) check contested by the target’s Wisdom (Insight) check. If your check succeeds, your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks from the target and your attack rolls against it have advantage; both benefits last until the end of your next turn or until you use this ability on a different target. If your check fails, the target can’t be deceived by you in this way for 1 hour.
1. Pact of blade gives you Extra Attack, and ST Feat working until the end of your next turn. So, you normaly do 4 attacks per 2 rounds and with ST you do 3 attacks per 2 rounds with advantage. 7. You cant move darkness and enemies just can walk from it, or to change their focus at your teammates. And you lose damage from Hex, so i think 1 feat cost from ST is somewhat equal to cost of darkness (and its disadvantages)
Missed that you can cast darkness on yourself, that changes things slightly, but
ST Feat working until the end of your next turn, so you do ST and 1 attack with adv on 1st turn and 2 attacks with adv on second turn. Then you repeat. On one hand you dont have disadvantage on attacks against you, but you have more dmg from hex, and you are no problem for your alies. Thats all about 5 lvl, when you have both Thirsting Blade and ST, you can freely do Devils sight\darkness combo from lvl 3 to 5
Both Hex and Darkness require concentration, so you cant use both. You sacrifice dmg for disadvantage against you. ST is and easy way to get ADV for your attack. Ive checked in DPR calculator, 3 attacks with ADV gives you around 5 DPR increase than 4 attacks without ADV. So you cast Darkness and lose dmg from HEX, but gain dis on you, or you cast Hex, deal more dmg but without dis on yourself, and potentialy you are loosing less spell slots, since in theory you can run 1 hex all day
Round 1: Bonus action: Hex; Action: do ST and 1 attack with adv;
Round 2: Bonus action: Hexblade curse your first target; Action: Attack 2 times with adv (or 3pl adv via Elven Accuracy)
repeat
Pros that you dont relay on your spells slots to get adv. You could get almoust free adv every fight all day, and cast another usefull spells (Armor of Agathys for hp and dmg as an example). And you doesnt make life of your party harder (darkness). But yes, you lose dis against you, but with more dmg and armor of agathys i think its no big deal. Shadow of Moil is more complicated question and im still thinking about.
Where did you get that numbers? im using this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14qqYBDuf_iiS9my6F7UvcMZK_UwuOD6Z467Q7-0YvUI/edit#gid=151780215 and the chance to hit with 3 attacks is the same as for 4 attacks. I think we cant talk about Consistent damage using darkness. There are chances the target can leave darkness or ignore you and focus your teammates (which have a hard time of your darkness already) Yes we sacrificing 25% miss chance against us, but i assume dmg from hex and consistant adv (thares a little chance ST miss) is equal. And in situation concentration is lost - darkness with its adv is bigger loss than hex, when we still can get adv
And what combat will last 100 turns? We can use this number in to define efficiency in avarage gaming session. If combat will last 4 turns, i calculate average damgge per round at lvl 8. Thats situation without Hexblade Curse, average combat encounter. Against 15 AC enemy First is +2 ASI at 4 lvl, -5+10 at lvl 8. Greatsword, additional attack on crit. Turn1: 0 dmg (need to cast adv) Turn2: 30,8 (-5\+10 with adv) Turn3: 30,8 Turn4: 30,8 Thats 92,4 dmg total
Second ST on lvl 4, Elven Accuracy on lvl 8. Cha is the same. Greatsword + Hex + Maddening Hex, since have emty bonus action. Turn1: 15,3 dmg, Hex Turn2: 30,75 + 4 Turn3: 15,3 + 4 Turn4: 30,75 + 4 Thats 104,5 dmg total.
This is pointless to operate with 100 rounds of combat, no combat will last that long. So in avarage combat ST will has more dmg, thats 12 dmg difference. Agains target with 17 AC, it even higher 25,1 dmg. Chance to hit and to crit with Elven accuracy is higher too (dispite we have less attacks total)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey guys, im building a hexblade warlock and looking at Silver Tongued feat now. I want to build a crit fishing build and got some questions about efficiency of ST + Elven Accuracy. Im currently at lvl 2 with 18 cha. Im not good at math and have no idea how to calculate this. If some one is interesting in this, please help me!
I like how ST works both in noncombat (deception profiency) and in combat, combined with hex (easy to put ST on a target)
Lets look and Silver Tongued (1) alone. So, in mundane scenario, Is it worth for a warlock to trade 1 attack to get 3 attacks with an advantage?
2. Does situation different when we add 1d6 from Hex?
3. Does situation different when we add Hexblade curse?
4. What become when we add Elven Accuracy to a ST? Is 3 attacks with 3pl Adv is better than 4 attacks (i think it is, when we fishing for a crits)
5. Is this worse to pick ST , or is this an overkill, when warlock has another ways to gain adv (darkness+eldrich sight, shadow of moil)
6. We can go to 20 cha at lvl 8, using ST and EA, or is it better to take +2 to ASI and another feat (warcaster or GWM as an example)
7. Our obvious choice to gain ADV is to cast darkness. So, in that scenario we need an invocation, a spell slot, we skip 1st turn and deal 0 damage, we can cast hex only on turn 2. But this will combine with warcaster, if target fleeing from you, we can hit it with booming blade.On the other coin, with only ST we can do almoust the same on turn one, but with better (probably) dmg and worse defense. Casting HEX, make ST, do 3 attacks with adv, repeat on turn 2.
8. Shadow of Moil is more comlicated, it can be cast at 7 lvl, but at 8 lvl we already at 20 cha with both ST and EA. Do better with 3pl ADV, but get dis on us, but sacrifising dmg from hex (but getting ~same damage from a MoIl) and component to cast that spell is pretty expensive too, to cast frequently
So, that questions is tearing me apart, i cant decide what is best and may be really overthinking whole situation. Need your fresh thoughts! If anyone is interesting in a subject, leave your comments, ty!
Yep, my bad)
Im reffering to an UA feat:
https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-SkillFeats.pdf
Am i allowed to post UA feats here?
Increase your Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You gain proficiency in the Deception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
• When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one attack with an attempt to deceive one humanoid you can see within 30 feet of you that can see and hear you. Make a Charisma (Deception) check contested by the target’s Wisdom (Insight) check. If your check succeeds, your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks from the target and your attack rolls against it have advantage; both benefits last until the end of your next turn or until you use this ability on a different target. If your check fails, the target can’t be deceived by you in this way for 1 hour.
1. Pact of blade gives you Extra Attack, and ST Feat working until the end of your next turn. So, you normaly do 4 attacks per 2 rounds and with ST you do 3 attacks per 2 rounds with advantage.
7. You cant move darkness and enemies just can walk from it, or to change their focus at your teammates. And you lose damage from Hex, so i think 1 feat cost from ST is somewhat equal to cost of darkness (and its disadvantages)
Missed that you can cast darkness on yourself, that changes things slightly, but
ST Feat working until the end of your next turn, so you do ST and 1 attack with adv on 1st turn and 2 attacks with adv on second turn. Then you repeat. On one hand you dont have disadvantage on attacks against you, but you have more dmg from hex, and you are no problem for your alies.
Thats all about 5 lvl, when you have both Thirsting Blade and ST, you can freely do Devils sight\darkness combo from lvl 3 to 5
Both Hex and Darkness require concentration, so you cant use both. You sacrifice dmg for disadvantage against you. ST is and easy way to get ADV for your attack. Ive checked in DPR calculator, 3 attacks with ADV gives you around 5 DPR increase than 4 attacks without ADV. So you cast Darkness and lose dmg from HEX, but gain dis on you, or you cast Hex, deal more dmg but without dis on yourself, and potentialy you are loosing less spell slots, since in theory you can run 1 hex all day
Pros that you dont relay on your spells slots to get adv. You could get almoust free adv every fight all day, and cast another usefull spells (Armor of Agathys for hp and dmg as an example). And you doesnt make life of your party harder (darkness). But yes, you lose dis against you, but with more dmg and armor of agathys i think its no big deal.
Shadow of Moil is more complicated question and im still thinking about.
Where did you get that numbers? im using this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14qqYBDuf_iiS9my6F7UvcMZK_UwuOD6Z467Q7-0YvUI/edit#gid=151780215
and the chance to hit with 3 attacks is the same as for 4 attacks.
I think we cant talk about Consistent damage using darkness. There are chances the target can leave darkness or ignore you and focus your teammates (which have a hard time of your darkness already)
Yes we sacrificing 25% miss chance against us, but i assume dmg from hex and consistant adv (thares a little chance ST miss) is equal.
And in situation concentration is lost - darkness with its adv is bigger loss than hex, when we still can get adv
And what combat will last 100 turns? We can use this number in to define efficiency in avarage gaming session.
If combat will last 4 turns, i calculate average damgge per round at lvl 8. Thats situation without Hexblade Curse, average combat encounter. Against 15 AC enemy
First is +2 ASI at 4 lvl, -5+10 at lvl 8. Greatsword, additional attack on crit.
Turn1: 0 dmg (need to cast adv)
Turn2: 30,8 (-5\+10 with adv)
Turn3: 30,8
Turn4: 30,8
Thats 92,4 dmg total
Second ST on lvl 4, Elven Accuracy on lvl 8. Cha is the same. Greatsword + Hex + Maddening Hex, since have emty bonus action.
Turn1: 15,3 dmg, Hex
Turn2: 30,75 + 4
Turn3: 15,3 + 4
Turn4: 30,75 + 4
Thats 104,5 dmg total.
This is pointless to operate with 100 rounds of combat, no combat will last that long. So in avarage combat ST will has more dmg, thats 12 dmg difference. Agains target with 17 AC, it even higher 25,1 dmg. Chance to hit and to crit with Elven accuracy is higher too (dispite we have less attacks total)