So, got a new game starting in a week or so and I have decided on Battlesmith, Point buy and small custom lineage race and plan to ride my SD when it arrives and use my BA to take an extra shot with my hand Xbow most turns. Obviously, that means I shall be taking XBE and most likely SS at some point. With Custom Lineage I get to start with a feat and out of the 2 aforementioned, I think XBE is the better choice as It gives me a 2nd attack straight away.
My question is this, I'm weighing up starting as a fighter for the Armor, Archery Style and free heals: Is it worth it?
I think a nice high AC can be achieved anyway if I'm selfish with Infusions so it's almost like I'm taking fighter for +2 to hit with Xbow, and whilst difficult to get this elsewhere its not impossible ie: Fighting Initiate.
I'm looking for thoughts and opinions for anyone willing to share !
Giving up two levels of Artificer early if it’s your primary class has some real drawbacks. You’re getting something valuable pretty much every level up to 11, when you get SSI. You get medium armor and will be at range, which is probably enough with an infusion or two. Your steel defender can help with any melee attacks against you also.
Consider too that you likely want three feats: CBE, Sharpshooter, and Mounted Combatant. And you probably want to max out INT early too. Delaying ASIs by taking two levels of Fighter means two more levels until you have all the feats you want for your character. That could push the feats completion to level 14 or later.
if you are worried about to-hit bonuses, you can increase your INT and add the Repeating Shot infusion, which you should do regardless.
Keep in mind that with XBE, you'd need to be using a hand crossbow to be able to make a bonus action attack, and the hand crossbow is a martial weapon, which artificers don't get proficiency in at level 1.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Keep in mind that with XBE, you'd need to be using a hand crossbow to be able to make a bonus action attack, and the hand crossbow is a martial weapon, which artificers don't get proficiency in at level 1.
Ah, nicely caught. Light Xbow to start then, that probably makes SS a better choice at lvl 1 and then pick up XBE at 4. cheers
Giving up two levels of Artificer early if it’s your primary class has some real drawbacks. You’re getting something valuable pretty much every level up to 11, when you get SSI. You get medium armor and will be at range, which is probably enough with an infusion or two. Your steel defender can help with any melee attacks against you also.
Consider too that you likely want three feats: CBE, Sharpshooter, and Mounted Combatant. And you probably want to max out INT early too. Delaying ASIs by taking two levels of Fighter means two more levels until you have all the feats you want for your character. That could push the feats completion to level 14 or later.
if you are worried about to-hit bonuses, you can increase your INT and add the Repeating Shot infusion, which you should do regardless.
Thanks for your input. You raise some good points and since I'm yet to play in a game of 5E that went beyond lvl 12 I think straight Battlesmith is going to be best.
Now I know its a straight build I shall work on lvl progression, thanks again
Multiclassing Fighter and the Crossbow Expert feat are pretty wasted on the Battle Smith. At level 2 you get the Repeating infusion which is pretty much the same as XBE but better and doesn't use your bonus action so you can actually use your Steel Defender. Ranger Battle Smiths are awesome, though. Especially when backed up by their Defenders.
Multiclassing Fighter and the Crossbow Expert feat are pretty wasted on the Battle Smith. At level 2 you get the Repeating infusion which is pretty much the same as XBE but better and doesn't use your bonus action so you can actually use your Steel Defender. Ranger Battle Smiths are awesome, though. Especially when backed up by their Defenders.
I see what you're saying to an extent, however: Repeating Infusion is definitely good but it only replaces 1 part of the XBE feat
If I'm using my SD as a mount, for it to attack and me to use a Xbow I would need the XBE so I don't get Disadvantage on my attacks since the SD is melee only
XBE will give me a 3rd attack with Hand Xbow ( at lvl5 using a BA) which is likely better damage than my SD can do? ;
with 18 Int and +3 PB at lvl 5 = SD - +7 hit 1d8+3 force damage (7.5dpr)
Hand Xbow +8 hit 1d6 +5 (+1weap from infusion) (8.5dpr)
its only 1dpr higher but the lowest damage on the hand Crossbow is also higher by 2 damage.
At lvl 9 the SD does the same as a +1 hand Crossbow on average and is only better when we hit lvl 13. unless I'm missing something?
Multiclassing Fighter and the Crossbow Expert feat are pretty wasted on the Battle Smith. At level 2 you get the Repeating infusion which is pretty much the same as XBE but better and doesn't use your bonus action so you can actually use your Steel Defender. Ranger Battle Smiths are awesome, though. Especially when backed up by their Defenders.
I see what you're saying to an extent, however: Repeating Infusion is definitely good but it only replaces 1 part of the XBE feat
If I'm using my SD as a mount, for it to attack and me to use a Xbow I would need the XBE so I don't get Disadvantage on my attacks since the SD is melee only
XBE will give me a 3rd attack with Hand Xbow ( at lvl5 using a BA) which is likely better damage than my SD can do? ;
with 18 Int and +3 PB at lvl 5 = SD - +7 hit 1d8+3 force damage (7.5dpr)
Hand Xbow +8 hit 1d6 +5 (+1weap from infusion) (8.5dpr)
its only 1dpr higher but the lowest damage on the hand Crossbow is also higher by 2 damage.
At lvl 9 the SD does the same as a +1 hand Crossbow on average and is only better when we hit lvl 13. unless I'm missing something?
It's not only the SD's attack you're losing out on, it's everything else that it and you can do. Also, you are paying an exorbitant price for what basically amounts to slightly higher DPR. More on that later.
First I have to ask, what is it that you want to achieve by riding your defender into combat, specifically? The main point of a ranged Battle Smith is, well, the range. You can stay away and be safe while your Defender defends you. Riding your defender in combat kind of defeats that purpose and to even be able to use your ranged weapon in combat you have to pay a very high feat tax. Note that I'm only talking about riding the defender when in combat, riding it out of combat is good choice for lots of reasons but in combat not so much.
Now remember, the Defender can do more than just attack, it can flank, it can use items, it can drag downed party members to safety (that last might depend on your DM) but all of these things require you to use your bonus action. Add to that the loss of mobility and tactical options you get by being stuck on top of your defender (ithere are a lot of situations when you and your defender might want to be in different places) and the question I would ask myself is whether or not it is worth it to pay that price and lose all those options for just a few more points of damage? Especially since you'll be hitting less often if you have Sharpshooter. Taking Sharpshooter will also slow delay getting your Int up to 18 (assuming SPA/Point buy).
To sum it up, you gain very little but you have to dedicate a lot of resources to get it. Just some thoughts.
ok, you make a lot of sense. I was focusing on an extra attack and nothing else. Choosing a feat for essentially 1DPR is ridiculous. XBE is out, stay at range and get the defender in there attacking and helping. seems a better option as opposed to using him as a mount and wasting everything else. SS still seems worth it for ignoring cover and extra range but that can wait till 8 when I have 20 Int. Since I will now not be so heavily investing in feats for Ranged combat It wouldn't feel so bad swapping to sword/shield for melee if I really have too.
No worries, glad to be able to help. There's nothing wrong with a ranged battle smith (they are actually really good at it) but you get a lot more mileage out of a non CBE-build. It also opens up for you to take some interesting feats that gives you +1 to Int (which you will need anyways to be able to get Int to 20 at level 4).
And of course, you can always ride the defender when not in combat. Because that is just really cool. :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, got a new game starting in a week or so and I have decided on Battlesmith, Point buy and small custom lineage race and plan to ride my SD when it arrives and use my BA to take an extra shot with my hand Xbow most turns. Obviously, that means I shall be taking XBE and most likely SS at some point. With Custom Lineage I get to start with a feat and out of the 2 aforementioned, I think XBE is the better choice as It gives me a 2nd attack straight away.
My question is this, I'm weighing up starting as a fighter for the Armor, Archery Style and free heals: Is it worth it?
I think a nice high AC can be achieved anyway if I'm selfish with Infusions so it's almost like I'm taking fighter for +2 to hit with Xbow, and whilst difficult to get this elsewhere its not impossible ie: Fighting Initiate.
I'm looking for thoughts and opinions for anyone willing to share !
Cheers
Giving up two levels of Artificer early if it’s your primary class has some real drawbacks. You’re getting something valuable pretty much every level up to 11, when you get SSI. You get medium armor and will be at range, which is probably enough with an infusion or two. Your steel defender can help with any melee attacks against you also.
Consider too that you likely want three feats: CBE, Sharpshooter, and Mounted Combatant. And you probably want to max out INT early too. Delaying ASIs by taking two levels of Fighter means two more levels until you have all the feats you want for your character. That could push the feats completion to level 14 or later.
if you are worried about to-hit bonuses, you can increase your INT and add the Repeating Shot infusion, which you should do regardless.
Keep in mind that with XBE, you'd need to be using a hand crossbow to be able to make a bonus action attack, and the hand crossbow is a martial weapon, which artificers don't get proficiency in at level 1.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Ah, nicely caught. Light Xbow to start then, that probably makes SS a better choice at lvl 1 and then pick up XBE at 4. cheers
Thanks for your input. You raise some good points and since I'm yet to play in a game of 5E that went beyond lvl 12 I think straight Battlesmith is going to be best.
Now I know its a straight build I shall work on lvl progression, thanks again
Multiclassing Fighter and the Crossbow Expert feat are pretty wasted on the Battle Smith. At level 2 you get the Repeating infusion which is pretty much the same as XBE but better and doesn't use your bonus action so you can actually use your Steel Defender. Ranger Battle Smiths are awesome, though. Especially when backed up by their Defenders.
I see what you're saying to an extent, however: Repeating Infusion is definitely good but it only replaces 1 part of the XBE feat
If I'm using my SD as a mount, for it to attack and me to use a Xbow I would need the XBE so I don't get Disadvantage on my attacks since the SD is melee only
XBE will give me a 3rd attack with Hand Xbow ( at lvl5 using a BA) which is likely better damage than my SD can do? ;
with 18 Int and +3 PB at lvl 5 = SD - +7 hit 1d8+3 force damage (7.5dpr)
Hand Xbow +8 hit 1d6 +5 (+1weap from infusion) (8.5dpr)
its only 1dpr higher but the lowest damage on the hand Crossbow is also higher by 2 damage.
At lvl 9 the SD does the same as a +1 hand Crossbow on average and is only better when we hit lvl 13. unless I'm missing something?
It's not only the SD's attack you're losing out on, it's everything else that it and you can do. Also, you are paying an exorbitant price for what basically amounts to slightly higher DPR. More on that later.
First I have to ask, what is it that you want to achieve by riding your defender into combat, specifically? The main point of a ranged Battle Smith is, well, the range. You can stay away and be safe while your Defender defends you. Riding your defender in combat kind of defeats that purpose and to even be able to use your ranged weapon in combat you have to pay a very high feat tax. Note that I'm only talking about riding the defender when in combat, riding it out of combat is good choice for lots of reasons but in combat not so much.
Now remember, the Defender can do more than just attack, it can flank, it can use items, it can drag downed party members to safety (that last might depend on your DM) but all of these things require you to use your bonus action. Add to that the loss of mobility and tactical options you get by being stuck on top of your defender (ithere are a lot of situations when you and your defender might want to be in different places) and the question I would ask myself is whether or not it is worth it to pay that price and lose all those options for just a few more points of damage? Especially since you'll be hitting less often if you have Sharpshooter. Taking Sharpshooter will also slow delay getting your Int up to 18 (assuming SPA/Point buy).
To sum it up, you gain very little but you have to dedicate a lot of resources to get it. Just some thoughts.
ok, you make a lot of sense. I was focusing on an extra attack and nothing else. Choosing a feat for essentially 1DPR is ridiculous. XBE is out, stay at range and get the defender in there attacking and helping. seems a better option as opposed to using him as a mount and wasting everything else. SS still seems worth it for ignoring cover and extra range but that can wait till 8 when I have 20 Int. Since I will now not be so heavily investing in feats for Ranged combat It wouldn't feel so bad swapping to sword/shield for melee if I really have too.
Cheers mate
No worries, glad to be able to help. There's nothing wrong with a ranged battle smith (they are actually really good at it) but you get a lot more mileage out of a non CBE-build. It also opens up for you to take some interesting feats that gives you +1 to Int (which you will need anyways to be able to get Int to 20 at level 4).
And of course, you can always ride the defender when not in combat. Because that is just really cool. :D