Mind sharpener infusion starts with 4 charges and regains 1d4 charges at dawn. What is to stop the artificer simply re-infusing the item with mind sharpener and getting 4 charges rather than 1d4?
Edit: This applies to other infusions as well, but this one is particularly noticeable given it doesn't require attunement (even though RAW attunement is negligible on infusions).
Mind sharpener infusion starts with 4 charges and regains 1d4 charges at dawn. What is to stop the artificer simply re-infusing the item with mind sharpener and getting 4 charges rather than 1d4?
Edit: This applies to other infusions as well, but this one is particularly noticeable given it doesn't require attunement (even though RAW attunement is negligible on infusions).
I believe the only thing that stops it is with RAW, you have no way manually removing an infusion, the newest removes the oldest. Granted you could just say you are "renewing" each one if you really wanted to... That may or may not be ruled differently according to the DM though.
Mind sharpener infusion starts with 4 charges and regains 1d4 charges at dawn. What is to stop the artificer simply re-infusing the item with mind sharpener and getting 4 charges rather than 1d4?
Edit: This applies to other infusions as well, but this one is particularly noticeable given it doesn't require attunement (even though RAW attunement is negligible on infusions).
I believe the only thing that stops it is with RAW, you have no way manually removing an infusion, the newest removes the oldest. Granted you could just say you are "renewing" each one if you really wanted to... That may or may not be ruled differently according to the DM though.
Makes sense, so RAW you would have to redo all your infusions to achieve this. Which may cause attunement issues for others unless the artificer is using them all themselves.
I would expect most DMs would just say no you can't renew it, just roll the d4, simply because it feels too cheesy to do. Mind sharpener is good even at 1-2 charges.
Makes sense, so RAW you would have to redo all your infusions to achieve this. Which may cause attunement issues for others unless the artificer is using them all themselves.
I would expect most DMs would just say no you can't renew it, just roll the d4, simply because it feels too cheesy to do. Mind sharpener is good even at 1-2 charges.
Good to have RAW explained a bit though thanks.
Absolutely. I will be honest though, handing out items to other players had not even crossed my mind, so that is a very good point. Combined with the cheese factor, like you said, it is probably better to stick to the dice roll.
Excellent question, though. Seeing all of the small details being brought up that I would have not thought of is very interesting.
Part of your issue would actually be in what it takes to be able to redo your infusions. They are only able to be done after a long rest. Which might not make it feasibly practical to just re-up this infusion for 4 more charges.
At most tables I know "daily at dawn" pretty much coincides with "after a long rest" so I don't think that would be a problem. While it might be cheesy I really don't think there is anything stopping you from just re-infusing ALL of your items. Granted that would mean when others are attuned to something you give them they would have to re-attune, but I think it isn't a bad Idea to not give your main feature to others too often.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
Again. Reinfusing is potentially cost prohibitive. it's an 8 hour chunk out of the day that you may not have to spend just to get a few charges back on one or two magic items. It really may not be worth it.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
Again. Reinfusing is potentially cost prohibitive. it's an 8 hour chunk out of the day that you may not have to spend just to get a few charges back on one or two magic items. It really may not be worth it.
It's not so much about getting more charges out of the magic item that same day but instead reinfusing at the end of your ordinary long rest. Remember RAW players can only take 1 long rest per 24 hour period anyway. So it's not a long rest taken exclusively to recharge the item but a long rest the party was already going to be taking.
What's being proposed here is after the party's long rest the artificer cycles their infusions so the items that typically only gets 1dX charges back per day can instead get full charges back since the infusion text states that the infused item has X charges when it's infused. It's effectively as if an artificer could guarantee they roll max every time they'd ordinarily roll to get charges back.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
Again. Reinfusing is potentially cost prohibitive. it's an 8 hour chunk out of the day that you may not have to spend just to get a few charges back on one or two magic items. It really may not be worth it.
It's not so much about getting more charges out of the magic item that same day but instead reinfusing at the end of your ordinary long rest. Remember RAW players can only take 1 long rest per 24 hour period anyway. So it's not a long rest taken exclusively to recharge the item but a long rest the party was already going to be taking.
What's being proposed here is after the party's long rest the artificer cycles their infusions so the items that typically only gets 1dX charges back per day can instead get full charges back since the infusion text states that the infused item has X charges when it's infused. It's effectively as if an artificer could guarantee they roll max every time they'd ordinarily roll to get charges back.
There is nothing that says you can only do one long rest in a day. And if there were a rule then there would be no way to try and re-up this particular infusion to get more charges out of it because it would then be the next day anyway. And taking 8 hours just to try to get a few more charges out of a single magical item may still end up being cost prohibitive because you may not have the 8 hours to spend to try and get around the once daily charges that the infusion actually has. None of the rest of your argument actually changes anything or changes any meaning to what I had to say because your attempts at rephrasing the proposal don't actually change what i am saying at all. Because the attempt here is simply to get more charges a day than the infusion allows. And your attempt at a rule that doesn't exist would actually be in my favor if it did exist because Infusions can still only be done after a long rest.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
Again. Reinfusing is potentially cost prohibitive. it's an 8 hour chunk out of the day that you may not have to spend just to get a few charges back on one or two magic items. It really may not be worth it.
It's not so much about getting more charges out of the magic item that same day but instead reinfusing at the end of your ordinary long rest. Remember RAW players can only take 1 long rest per 24 hour period anyway. So it's not a long rest taken exclusively to recharge the item but a long rest the party was already going to be taking.
What's being proposed here is after the party's long rest the artificer cycles their infusions so the items that typically only gets 1dX charges back per day can instead get full charges back since the infusion text states that the infused item has X charges when it's infused. It's effectively as if an artificer could guarantee they roll max every time they'd ordinarily roll to get charges back.
There is nothing that says you can only do one long rest in a day. And if there were a rule then there would be no way to try and re-up this particular infusion to get more charges out of it because it would then be the next day anyway. And taking 8 hours just to try to get a few more charges out of a single magical item may still end up being cost prohibitive because you may not have the 8 hours to spend to try and get around the once daily charges that the infusion actually has. None of the rest of your argument actually changes anything or changes any meaning to what I had to say because your attempts at rephrasing the proposal don't actually change what i am saying at all. Because the attempt here is simply to get more charges a day than the infusion allows. And your attempt at a rule that doesn't exist would actually be in my favor if it did exist because Infusions can still only be done after a long rest.
"A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits."
Now, I'll admit If you can find a way in game to fit more than 24 hours in a day, then I'll grant you it might be possible to take a long rest a second time in a day. Otherwise, no. It's directly stated in the rules section that defines a long rest.
You're arguing against a thing that nobody is arguing for.
The attempt is not to get more charges per day than the infusion allows. The infusion specifically states it "has 4 charges" and that it "regains 1d4 charges daily at dawn." Common interpretation is that when the object is infused it starts with 4/4 charges. Ergo: Redoing the infusion at the end of your next long rest will ensure that it has 4/4 charges instead of having 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 even if you had used all up of your remaining charges prior to the long rest.
That's literally the whole and only point of redoing this infusion at the end of a long rest. Not somehow trying to get 5/4 or 6/4 or more charges.
All your link is saying is they can't heal from long resting multiple times in a day. Not gaining benefits does not mean that you cannot do it only once.
All your link is saying is they can't heal from long resting multiple times in a day. Not gaining benefits does not mean that you cannot do it only once.
The way I understood it healing isn't the only benefit from a long rest that can only be gained 1/day. It would mean ALL benefits of a long rest including class features that come back after a long rest. That's spell slots, abilities that get recharged via long rests, spell preparation, selecting infusions, etc. Further, it seems to me the game is fundamentally balanced around this interpretation. That's why I think selecting infusions is only meant to happen once per 24 hours.
So I was doing some research as a new artificer and stumbled across this page and it left me with even more questions. But after doing some more of my own research I just felt like I'd add some to the conversation. First off I'd like to say it's possible more editions of this class might have come out since this conversation has happened but here is what I have found that helped me.
Some reasons why you wouldn't want to re-infuse your infusions:
Infuse Item 2 infused items TCoE, pg. 12
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch up to 2 nonmagical objects, imbuing each of them with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item. You can attune yourself to the item the instant you infuse it, or you can forgo attunement so that someone else can attune to the item.
Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after 3 days. The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion or you exceed your maximum number of infusions.
So you can only infuse two items after a long rest, so the idea of re-infuse ALL your infusions, like some have recommended, is out of the question. However, it does use the word touch-up, which leads me to believe that re-infusing certain items might in fact be the thought process for using some of these items in certain circumstances. When it comes to my particular subclass that I plan on playing, Alchemist, I know that during a long rest is when I can make my elixirs, so now I'm making those and infusions? Nothing says I can't make both, they just both say I have to make them after a long rest, so I take a long rest, then I make the infusion, now it's after the long rest and my infusion is made. If I'm not making the infusion for myself, we the group now have to take a short rest immediately after a long rest so whomever has my infusion can attune to my infusion? Does that count as an official short rest? Do we have to roll hit die while at full health and use one of our short rests so you can attune to a full 4 charged item and make sure you have 1 or 2 charges more than you would have on your Mind Sharpener? These are all rhetorical questions.
Now having said all of that, it really is down to your DM and what they decide as far as being lenient on these kinds of rules or not. Maybe their short rest is just that one person taking a little extra time with the item to attune to it and the group is ready to go, maybe not. I hope some of this helped anyone who might have been in a similar boat as I was when I came to these read all these comments and thoughts. It's a lot to take in, and this is quite the interesting class. I look forward to playing it and I'm sure that after I have I will be singing along with U2 because in the end "I still haven't found, what I'm looking for."
So I was doing some research as a new artificer and stumbled across this page and it left me with even more questions. But after doing some more of my own research I just felt like I'd add some to the conversation. First off I'd like to say it's possible more editions of this class might have come out since this conversation has happened but here is what I have found that helped me.
Some reasons why you wouldn't want to re-infuse your infusions:
Infuse Item 2 infused items TCoE, pg. 12
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch up to 2 nonmagical objects, imbuing each of them with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item. You can attune yourself to the item the instant you infuse it, or you can forgo attunement so that someone else can attune to the item.
Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after 3 days. The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion or you exceed your maximum number of infusions.
So you can only infuse two items after a long rest, so the idea of re-infuse ALL your infusions, like some have recommended, is out of the question.
Um... are you using your character sheet and not the actual book as a reference for your argument?
So I was doing some research as a new artificer and stumbled across this page and it left me with even more questions. But after doing some more of my own research I just felt like I'd add some to the conversation. First off I'd like to say it's possible more editions of this class might have come out since this conversation has happened but here is what I have found that helped me.
Some reasons why you wouldn't want to re-infuse your infusions:
Infuse Item 2 infused items TCoE, pg. 12
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch up to 2 nonmagical objects, imbuing each of them with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item. You can attune yourself to the item the instant you infuse it, or you can forgo attunement so that someone else can attune to the item.
Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after 3 days. The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion or you exceed your maximum number of infusions.
So you can only infuse two items after a long rest, so the idea of re-infuse ALL your infusions, like some have recommended, is out of the question. However, it does use the word touch-up, which leads me to believe that re-infusing certain items might in fact be the thought process for using some of these items in certain circumstances. When it comes to my particular subclass that I plan on playing, Alchemist, I know that during a long rest is when I can make my elixirs, so now I'm making those and infusions? Nothing says I can't make both, they just both say I have to make them after a long rest, so I take a long rest, then I make the infusion, now it's after the long rest and my infusion is made. If I'm not making the infusion for myself, we the group now have to take a short rest immediately after a long rest so whomever has my infusion can attune to my infusion? Does that count as an official short rest? Do we have to roll hit die while at full health and use one of our short rests so you can attune to a full 4 charged item and make sure you have 1 or 2 charges more than you would have on your Mind Sharpener? These are all rhetorical questions.
Now having said all of that, it really is down to your DM and what they decide as far as being lenient on these kinds of rules or not. Maybe their short rest is just that one person taking a little extra time with the item to attune to it and the group is ready to go, maybe not. I hope some of this helped anyone who might have been in a similar boat as I was when I came to these read all these comments and thoughts. It's a lot to take in, and this is quite the interesting class. I look forward to playing it and I'm sure that after I have I will be singing along with U2 because in the end "I still haven't found, what I'm looking for."
You aren't limited to two infusions per long rest. You are limited based on the chart, which at lower levels happens to be 2, your maximum number of infusion at that level. As you progress the max number amd the number of infusions increases.
I'd like to respond with two comments, one I was not arguing as much as adding some info that I noticed while trying to figure out how to play a class I have yet to play too much. Two, in the link to my character sheet it has a cited source which is TCoE pg 12. Which stand for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything page 12.
You are correct though, had I sourced the book directly I would have seen that it states: You can infuse more than one nonmagical object at the end of a long rest; the maximum number of objects appears in the Infused Items column of the Artificer table. You must touch each of the objects, and each of your infusions can be in only one object at a time. Moreover, no object can bear more than one of your infusions at a time. If you try to exceed your maximum number of infusions, the oldest infusion ends, and then the new infusion applies.
I would then realized that the 2 was a two specifically for my level and therefore was simply not an option for just me at this time. I apologize for adding to the confusion as reinfusion seems like more of a hindrance for lower levels and seems more capable at higher levels.
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Mind sharpener infusion starts with 4 charges and regains 1d4 charges at dawn. What is to stop the artificer simply re-infusing the item with mind sharpener and getting 4 charges rather than 1d4?
Edit: This applies to other infusions as well, but this one is particularly noticeable given it doesn't require attunement (even though RAW attunement is negligible on infusions).
I believe the only thing that stops it is with RAW, you have no way manually removing an infusion, the newest removes the oldest. Granted you could just say you are "renewing" each one if you really wanted to... That may or may not be ruled differently according to the DM though.
Makes sense, so RAW you would have to redo all your infusions to achieve this. Which may cause attunement issues for others unless the artificer is using them all themselves.
I would expect most DMs would just say no you can't renew it, just roll the d4, simply because it feels too cheesy to do. Mind sharpener is good even at 1-2 charges.
Good to have RAW explained a bit though thanks.
Absolutely. I will be honest though, handing out items to other players had not even crossed my mind, so that is a very good point. Combined with the cheese factor, like you said, it is probably better to stick to the dice roll.
Excellent question, though. Seeing all of the small details being brought up that I would have not thought of is very interesting.
Part of your issue would actually be in what it takes to be able to redo your infusions. They are only able to be done after a long rest. Which might not make it feasibly practical to just re-up this infusion for 4 more charges.
At most tables I know "daily at dawn" pretty much coincides with "after a long rest" so I don't think that would be a problem. While it might be cheesy I really don't think there is anything stopping you from just re-infusing ALL of your items. Granted that would mean when others are attuned to something you give them they would have to re-attune, but I think it isn't a bad Idea to not give your main feature to others too often.
I recommend always re-infusing. Reset your Winged Boots, reset your Mind Sharpener, etc. It's part of the inherent advantage of having infusions rather than permanent magic items, and at least to me seems to be an intentional part of the design of the class.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Again. Reinfusing is potentially cost prohibitive. it's an 8 hour chunk out of the day that you may not have to spend just to get a few charges back on one or two magic items. It really may not be worth it.
It's not so much about getting more charges out of the magic item that same day but instead reinfusing at the end of your ordinary long rest. Remember RAW players can only take 1 long rest per 24 hour period anyway. So it's not a long rest taken exclusively to recharge the item but a long rest the party was already going to be taking.
What's being proposed here is after the party's long rest the artificer cycles their infusions so the items that typically only gets 1dX charges back per day can instead get full charges back since the infusion text states that the infused item has X charges when it's infused. It's effectively as if an artificer could guarantee they roll max every time they'd ordinarily roll to get charges back.
There is nothing that says you can only do one long rest in a day. And if there were a rule then there would be no way to try and re-up this particular infusion to get more charges out of it because it would then be the next day anyway. And taking 8 hours just to try to get a few more charges out of a single magical item may still end up being cost prohibitive because you may not have the 8 hours to spend to try and get around the once daily charges that the infusion actually has. None of the rest of your argument actually changes anything or changes any meaning to what I had to say because your attempts at rephrasing the proposal don't actually change what i am saying at all. Because the attempt here is simply to get more charges a day than the infusion allows. And your attempt at a rule that doesn't exist would actually be in my favor if it did exist because Infusions can still only be done after a long rest.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/adventuring#LongRest Click the link.
"A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits."
Now, I'll admit If you can find a way in game to fit more than 24 hours in a day, then I'll grant you it might be possible to take a long rest a second time in a day. Otherwise, no. It's directly stated in the rules section that defines a long rest.
You're arguing against a thing that nobody is arguing for.
The attempt is not to get more charges per day than the infusion allows. The infusion specifically states it "has 4 charges" and that it "regains 1d4 charges daily at dawn." Common interpretation is that when the object is infused it starts with 4/4 charges. Ergo: Redoing the infusion at the end of your next long rest will ensure that it has 4/4 charges instead of having 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 even if you had used all up of your remaining charges prior to the long rest.
That's literally the whole and only point of redoing this infusion at the end of a long rest. Not somehow trying to get 5/4 or 6/4 or more charges.
All your link is saying is they can't heal from long resting multiple times in a day. Not gaining benefits does not mean that you cannot do it only once.
The way I understood it healing isn't the only benefit from a long rest that can only be gained 1/day. It would mean ALL benefits of a long rest including class features that come back after a long rest. That's spell slots, abilities that get recharged via long rests, spell preparation, selecting infusions, etc. Further, it seems to me the game is fundamentally balanced around this interpretation. That's why I think selecting infusions is only meant to happen once per 24 hours.
Edited: What Unclever said.
So I was doing some research as a new artificer and stumbled across this page and it left me with even more questions. But after doing some more of my own research I just felt like I'd add some to the conversation. First off I'd like to say it's possible more editions of this class might have come out since this conversation has happened but here is what I have found that helped me.
Some reasons why you wouldn't want to re-infuse your infusions:
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch up to 2 nonmagical objects, imbuing each of them with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item. You can attune yourself to the item the instant you infuse it, or you can forgo attunement so that someone else can attune to the item.
Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after 3 days. The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion or you exceed your maximum number of infusions.
So you can only infuse two items after a long rest, so the idea of re-infuse ALL your infusions, like some have recommended, is out of the question. However, it does use the word touch-up, which leads me to believe that re-infusing certain items might in fact be the thought process for using some of these items in certain circumstances. When it comes to my particular subclass that I plan on playing, Alchemist, I know that during a long rest is when I can make my elixirs, so now I'm making those and infusions? Nothing says I can't make both, they just both say I have to make them after a long rest, so I take a long rest, then I make the infusion, now it's after the long rest and my infusion is made. If I'm not making the infusion for myself, we the group now have to take a short rest immediately after a long rest so whomever has my infusion can attune to my infusion? Does that count as an official short rest? Do we have to roll hit die while at full health and use one of our short rests so you can attune to a full 4 charged item and make sure you have 1 or 2 charges more than you would have on your Mind Sharpener? These are all rhetorical questions.
Now having said all of that, it really is down to your DM and what they decide as far as being lenient on these kinds of rules or not. Maybe their short rest is just that one person taking a little extra time with the item to attune to it and the group is ready to go, maybe not. I hope some of this helped anyone who might have been in a similar boat as I was when I came to these read all these comments and thoughts. It's a lot to take in, and this is quite the interesting class. I look forward to playing it and I'm sure that after I have I will be singing along with U2 because in the end "I still haven't found, what I'm looking for."
Um... are you using your character sheet and not the actual book as a reference for your argument?
You aren't limited to two infusions per long rest. You are limited based on the chart, which at lower levels happens to be 2, your maximum number of infusion at that level. As you progress the max number amd the number of infusions increases.
I'd like to respond with two comments, one I was not arguing as much as adding some info that I noticed while trying to figure out how to play a class I have yet to play too much. Two, in the link to my character sheet it has a cited source which is TCoE pg 12. Which stand for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything page 12.
You are correct though, had I sourced the book directly I would have seen that it states: You can infuse more than one nonmagical object at the end of a long rest; the maximum number of objects appears in the Infused Items column of the Artificer table. You must touch each of the objects, and each of your infusions can be in only one object at a time. Moreover, no object can bear more than one of your infusions at a time. If you try to exceed your maximum number of infusions, the oldest infusion ends, and then the new infusion applies.
I would then realized that the 2 was a two specifically for my level and therefore was simply not an option for just me at this time. I apologize for adding to the confusion as reinfusion seems like more of a hindrance for lower levels and seems more capable at higher levels.