So I am creating this thread to air the grievances I have with the current UA Artificer class, in an attempt to see if i am alone here in my dislike for it in its current state
I am going to go feature by feature so that you don't have to read the entire post in order to find a part that you agree or disagree with me and provide me with your feedback in the comments please
Edit: If you are going to vote, and especially if you disagree with me, please leave a comment im trying to use this more to get a better idea of stuff
Preface; I am a huge fan of the idea of an Artificer. The Alchemist is my favorite fantasy archetype of all time so i have been following artificer since the 2016 UA flop. I like a lot of ideas it had but it just didn't have much of any freedom to the class. This version has sooo much freedom that it seems like it doesn't actually know what its supposed to do and no clear way to refine the skills down. Sadly this looks like the almost final version of this class, but either way I would enjoy the discourse.
Level 1
Proficiencies - I love that they have INT and CON saving throws, it really makes sense, however I wish they got 3 skill proficiencies because, while they get a lot of tool proficiencies those only become useful about 10% of the time whereas almost all of the skills can be useful in any given session. Also, i can't understand for the life of me why the continuously decide to give this class thieves tools and even allow them to be used as a casting focus. This Makes Zero Sense At All Please Explain.
Magical Tinkering - This is a good skill, however it is a horrible class feature and needs to instead be changed to an Artificer only cantrip. Every time I see it I just think “Druidcraft, but worse because it takes up an entire class feature”.
Spellcasting - I think here they did a pretty good job with the tiny little box that they put themselves in. It makes sense that you need to use tools as a casting focus, and I like the idea of a prepared list like a cleric, however, YOU CANT COUNTERSPELL A HEALING POTION. To elaborate, the idea that you have to spend all of this extra time in flavoring and essentially recreating the spell yourself, only for it to have to follow all the same rules as every other class is soooo irritating. Anyclass can reflavor acid splash into a vial, or lesser restoration into a salve and people have been doing it for years. This class fails to convince me why I should be a battle smith as opposed to a forge cleric when i want to be a True crafter essentially.
Level 2
Infuse Item - This is a great feature and I like the customization because i feel that the Artificer need to be the most customizable class. However this feature needs a few tweaks; 1) Some of the infusions are pointless, namely ‘Many-Handed Pouch’ and ‘Boots of the Winding Path’ these literally just need to be added to the DMs guide and moved to ‘Replicate Magic Item’ cause they are a complete waste of thought here 2) Holy Xanathar does there need to be more of these. There are only about 3 super unique ones that i feel can be reflavored in a way that makes sense to any given subclass and i feel that is a problem.
Level 3
Tool Expertise - Perfect!
Artificer Specialist - I will go in depth in these at the end, but here I'll just say, I think this should be a 1st level archetype class and at the very least 2nd level. 3rd levels are a disgrace. Additionally I will mention that the fact the subclasses here only getting 3 levels of class feature is very disappointing. Not to mention there is no customization within the subclasses themselves.
Level 5
Arcane Armament - I understand the idea for this feature, however its kinda dumb. The idea that somehow you are only good at using a sword as long as it's a flaming sword fails to make sense to me. Not to mention unlike the 2016 version you still only have 3 attunement slots at this point so the chances of a non-frontline class (most of the time) fighting with a weapon is dumb. Not to mention this super specific extra attack can't even stack with other extra attacks which is a complete waste, if you ask me.
Level 10
Right Cantrip for the Job - The idea of this feature is not bad, but it falls short. Mostly i think cause you wait until 10th level for it. The idea behind this and the arcane armament is so that you can decide if you want to be more of a tool user or magic users and constantly change your cantrips. Soooo why not give them at the same time?? I feel like this is only a 10th level feature because they had nothing else to fill the space. I have never encountered a 10th level spell caster that wasn't super confident in the spells they had readily available at any given time.
Level 18
Spell-Storing Item - An interesting interpretation of the original ‘Infuse Magic’. I can definitely see this being exploited with something like cure wounds. Not to mention, yet again, there is no benefit to flavoring this to fit your crafting style instead of just tapping a sword and say “okay now you can use absorb elements for a while”.
Level 20
Soul of Artifice - This is literally just a copy paste from the 2016 version. It's like the person who put it together completely overlooked the fact that you gain no additionally attunements up until this point, and then they double. While this is nice, if you could survive this long with just 3 attuned items, a whole 19 other levels, then they only reason to suddenly do it is the +6 you get to all saving throws, then you could survive without it. Nice, but unhelpful this late.
Alchemist
Tools of the Trade - The granting of the alchemist supplies And the herbalism kit is honestly more annoying than useful to me. Just say something like “You are so practiced in the use of both of these tools that you can use an alchemist's supplies as if it is an herbalism kit” cause that's just a lot of junk in my pocket.
Alchemist Spells - While I understand these, i feel like i would have a hard time flavoring a few of these namely ‘Purify Food and Drink’
Alchemical Homunculus - This thing is utterly useless and stupid. I could write an entire essay about what is wrong with this thing but for now i will sum it up as; More work than its worth.
Alchemical Mastery - A fine idea and perfect for an Alchemist, however whoever said “that roll must either restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage” must never have heard or alchemical fire. Or literally anything. Who in the world only makes acid and poison as an alchemist? This is a good place where the reflavoring spells as potion should grant you a benefit but they decided that we cant have fun.
Chemical Savant - Makes sense, however this is an extremely boring final subclass feature that doesn't even make you stronger than most of the monsters you fight because most monsters in the game are just straight up immune to poison completely.
Archivist
I'm honestly not even going to try here. Mostly because they said that they aren't going to be keeping this subclass in but also because it's just a lot of convoluted bull that honestly seems like its more work than its worth.
Artillerist
Tools of the Trade - In my opinion the weaponsmith and the wandsmith don't need to be combined in such a sad way. And again, just getting a wooden wand is useless and if you got this feature at level 1 you could just buy one as a starting item instead.
Artillerist Spells - They all make sense but I literally can't think of how this class is supposed to be able to flavor all these totally different spells in unique ways except by just “I cast this spell, BUT with is WAnd”
Arcane Turret - Firstly is says ‘magically summon’ so please tell me how i am supposed to flavor this and don’t say carry it. My tiny rock gnome tinkerer will not be able to carry this beast. Anyway, the features that this turrent provides are pretty much all over the place and the entire turret itself is overpowered early on but then becomes pretty useless later on.
Wand Prototype - A cool idea that just kinda falls off. Like okay, we get it, you like wands, but the Bard over here can cast ‘Vicious Mockery’ all of the time and doesn't have to hold on to a stick to do so. It just doesn't add as much versatility as you would think especially because this class cannot fill a main spell caster roll and this doesn't help. Just take the Magic initiate feat and move on
Fortified Position - This class almost doesn't know what it wants, flipping back and forth between wand magic and things the turret can. But no we are here and we have 2 turrets. Whoopie? Well only sometimes we have two, but it protects people now! But only if they are closed to it.... and a fight should probably never be focused around your turret because you are still a squishy little spell caster
Battle Smith
Tools of the Trade - What didn't we already have smith's tools?? Guess the other one wasn't quite right so here we go again...
Battle Smith Spells - They make sense for the role that this subclass is supposed to play, even if its even more unrefined than all the other subclasses. Again, don't see how i am supposed to reflavor these.
Battle Ready- Yay! The only half-caster without martial weapon proficiency finally gets it! But only if you take a specific subclass. At least this one rewards you for being smart without an annoying restriction (im looking at you Alchemist)
Iron Defender - I actually cannot believe that they tried this mechanical servant again, but somehow managed to make it worse. Again, as with the Homunculus, it almost takes more work to use than it is worth. It's also way to easy to replace, but that seems to be a common theme in this class. Also the ‘Defensive Pounce’ is overpowered.
Arcane Jolt - This feature just further confirms that this subclass doesn't know if its a support, a frontline fighter or a summoner type.
Improved Defender - Another extremely boring final subclass feature that attempts to make some kinda underwhelming features stronger. Also makes ‘Defensive Pounce’ overpowered again
Artificer Spell List - Its alright, it is kinda awkward for a class to have almost all of the damaging cantrips but almost no damaging spells. And please for the love of the GODS let Artificer have Legend Lore i beeeeeeg you
New Spell: Arcane Weapon - I really like this spell. I'm mostly just confused as to why we need this instead of just like, a class feature that make elemental weapon actually good or something.
Multiclassing - Why does this make the Artificer proficient in Tinkers tools without a choice, but the base class on Beyond doesnt????
Theives tools have in them a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. Thats why the artificer gets them. The casting through tools i agree does not make sense, i think it should be rewritten to "your tools or a device you have created with these tools (You may improvise a device on the spot)". The tool proficiencies come up rarely, but allow it to craft more stuff during downtime (if there is any). Magical tinkering does not take up a class feature, it is a ribbon ability and if removed they likely would not have something more useful to replace it. If anything it is better than druidcraft because you get it for free. spellcasting makes sense to me, you could say that counterspell just prevents the potions effects from taking place. A bit of a stretch but eh. Infuse item agreed they need more, but with boots of the winding path and many handed pouch is just extra items not in the DMG. If they were it would be in replicate magic item, but they are not going to add more items to the DMG at this point. And yeah, i like them but there do need to be more interesting ones, with more variety than "+1 item" and "+1 item with a bonus feature". Arcane armament is there like that because they want you to rp your artificer as using magic items, instead of just being good at swords. You could easily expend a spell slot to get Arcane Weapon and use it, or use an infusion for yourself. The right cantrip for the job? Yeah that should have been a level 1-3 feature, perhaps with some kind of improvement at level 10 (like picking your cantrips from any classes spell list or something). Spell storing i feel is cool, but a little disappointing at 18th level, when the wizard can cast most of these spells AT WILL. Soul of artifice agreed, should have had some other benefit (being proficient in all tools and being proficient with any magic item you are attuned to?). Alchemist yeah, they have some problems there. Purify food and drink feels weird as a spell there, yeah. Alchemical homunculous i like the idea but think it should have been an infusion, i miss the satchel honestly. Alchemical mastery should have been acid, poison, fire, ice, lightning, and thunder. Chemical savant is a bit disappointing, but i think its ok. Archivist had its problems, yeah. With artillerist tools of the trade i think the idea was crafting wands like Wand of Polymorph and Wand of Fireball. The spells i feel fit into the "mad inventor" archetype, with explosive spells. Arcane turret you can flavor is quickly building, like from scraps around you, but idk. The abilities of arcane turret are fine IMO. Wand prototype was weird, yeah. Fortified position felt good to me. Battle smith gets smiths tools as well, yes, but it is more based around building weapons and armor. Battle Ready felt good to me, you can only use your INT when it is a magic weapon, so it is based around using them. For the smite spells, you could flavor it as flicking a switch on your weapon and it glowing with magical power for a bit as you used it. Iron defender was fine to me, scales with level and is more personalized than "beastmaster but better". Defensive pounce is the main draw of it, but it is not OP. It allows you to fight as a frontline fighter with a bit of defense, considering you dont get heavy armor or some Int based unarmed defense. I just wish they did not specify "four legged creature", and instead let you pick whatever you wanted, like an armoured knight to fight alongside you or a faerie dragon or a wolf, as long as it shared the same stat block. Arcane jolt was disappointing, the other 6th level features were bonus to your spells, but this one is just a once in a while extra healing or damage. 14th level defensive pounce dealing damage is also good for me, its only 1d4+1, should have had a different thing for arcane jolt tho. For the spell list, i agree, legend lore would work totally. Also teleportation circle. The reason we get damaging cantrips but no damaging spells is because the artificer uses spells for utility, not for attacking (except artillerist). Arcane weapon as a class feature would also work, and elemental weapon is a 3rd level spell, while arcane weapon is supposed to make the artificer decent with weapons at lower levels.
I can definitely see your opinion on some of these points for sure. I think my main issue with the class as a whole is the lack of necessity and the lack of reason to reflavor things. Sure it makes you super cool, i love the things that even they just suggest to you. I just REALLY feel there needs to be more of a reward for doing so.
I also feel like i focused most of my complaints into the fact that the class itself is supposed to be a Utility/Support class that can hold its own and my opinions on how they did or didnt do in that regard.
yeah. I think the reward is feeling good about your character, or inspiration if your DM lets you. But I can see how there is no benefit other than narrative to flavor it, and how that is a problem.
To be honest, I just fail to see what the Artificer is supposed to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "This version has sooo much freedom that it seems like it doesn't actually know what its supposed to do and no clear way to refine the skills down." I think that sums up my opinions on the class.
I feel like it just falls on its face since your role in the party isn't needed/unclear. Are you a DPR? A Support? A Tank? The answer is to all of these is maybe! I like the idea of a versatile class but sometimes versatility is bad.
An example is the Barbarian. We can all agree that the Barbarian is a pretty simple class. You're a big tough tank that has good damage to boot. That's the jist of it! You aren't a party's face, you don't have crazy skills, lots of magical variety, and stealth characteristics. You are a tank and a good source of damage. That's it. You are really good at what you do, and its fun to play since you can easily understand what your role is and how to do it.
Oh you don't want to play a Barbarian? Well why not try a Ranger then? You can be a ranged DPR. Oh you want to heal? How about a Cleric? Oh but you want a good Charisma score too? Then Bard is a great pick!
Every class has pretty clear roles that they slid into and it just seems like the Artificer doesn't. Alchemy and stuff is really cool! But making potions doesn't really fulfill any needed role. Maybe if you amped up the magic aspect a lot, it might get better. But then I feel like you're heading into territory that the Wizard and Sorcerer already have.
I don't know, its a pretty tricky class admittedly. I just don't see the point of playing one outside of thematic reasons.
Thats exactly what i mean, and if you are going for thematic reasons you dont Need to be an Artificer.
Every time i think about reflavoring spells i think to the “Force Grey” mini series that Matt Mercer DMed where Ashley Johnson played a half orc cleric and cast all her spells as little objects that she had crafted. She played a cleric and essentially did all of the things that this class is Supposed to do and her character worked out So Well!
Thats exactly what i mean, and if you are going for thematic reasons you dont Need to be an Artificer.
Every time i think about reflavoring spells i think to the “Force Grey” mini series that Matt Mercer DMed where Ashley Johnson played a half orc cleric and cast all her spells as little objects that she had crafted. She played a cleric and essentially did all of the things that this class is Supposed to do and her character worked out So Well!
What was her Cleric's domain, out of curiosity?
Also this complaint that the Artificer is mandating a RP element that has already been used in other spellcasting classes is a pain point Marine brought up multiple times. It is indeed a sketchy thing to have as a class aspect instead of something more concrete in the mechanics, but we'll have to see the official class to determine how much of a problem that will be.
Hmm. Well it looks like all episodes of “Force Grey: Giant Hunters” are now private so i dont know for sure but im 90% sure that the character predates Xanathars Guide And therefore couldn't have even been a Forge cleric which is kinda funny to me.
As for Thieves' Tools, in addition to what Bunsen said about the items in it, being able to pick locks and disable mechanical traps just feels to me like something an Artificer should be adept at doing. So having expertise in Thieves' Tools by default at 3rd level fits as well.
Well bunsen said that its because they a have “a pair if pliers and a screwdriver” which i think is a lame excuse because almost any tool set can have those things. The idea that they can disable traps and the like does make sense but i still cannot get past the fact that thieves tools can be used as a spell casting focus. That detail just seems like they are trying to add more functionality to something that they realize isn't a functional system.
By that i mean, giving people an easy way to cast spells because they know people dont care about reflavoring everything themselves so instead they said “use thieves tools cause all the other tools are functionally useless to the way the class works”
I think the idea is that the class is very open, with a bit of emphasis on support and utility, but each subclass is devoted to a specific playstyle. Alchemist for healing (healing potions and getting healing spells for free as abilities), Artillerist for spell slinger (turrets basically cast a weak 1st spell every turn, and you get more better cantrips, as well as spells devoted to combat and big magical effects), and battle smith for using weapons (You can use INT with magic weapons, you get spells that are designed to be used alongside weapons, or to support a party in combat, iron defender can protect you on the battlefield). I don't know what kind of playstyle archivist was trying to fit into (skill proficiencies? utility? psychic stuff?) but i can see the ones for the other subclasses easily.
And you aren't a better crafter as a forge cleric or as a wizard with fabricate. Fabricate cannot make magic items, and forge cleric you only get 1 magic item, which is just a +1 weapon, or burn an infusion to create a non magical metal one. Yes, with the artificer making magic items takes longer than casting fabricate or using your channel divinity, unless you are doing it as an infusion, but you can do it for anything and make it last permanently, and make it be magic. With those, you are a transmuter. With the artificer, you are an actual crafter.
You could say that the bard is a better paladin because they can use high level smite spells at a lower level than the paladin with magical secrets, and cast healing spells to replace lay on hands. But that does not make the build of the bard a better divine warrior than the paladin. I see this as the same thing.
or armor, or wands (less useful admittedly). Yeah, alchemist crafting healing potions is a subclass feature all into itself. But the artificer can still make magic items, the forge cleric or fabricate cannot. Wizard isn't proficient with tools either, you'd need to get that from multiclassing, a feat, race, or background.
You could say that the bard is a better paladin because they can use high level smite spells at a lower level than the paladin with magical secrets, and cast healing spells to replace lay on hands. But that does not make the build of the bard a better divine warrior than the paladin. I see this as the same thing.
I don't see that as the same, since the bard doesn't get divine smite and isn't as proficient at fighting outside of a couple subclasses. Lay on Hands is also basically the love child of Cure Wounds and Lesser Restoration, and you get it for free at Level 1. If crafting as a mechanic was more well thought-out, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but that is not the case for the most part. The way I see it, the only mundane item crafting an Artificer can do (and an Alchemist, to be specific) that is unmatched is crafting of healing potions.
I definitely agree more with Crawling_Chaos argument here. The way that ‘Lay on Hands’ and ‘Magical Secrets’ work is they are supposed to be functionally the same as things other classes can do, but as a Paladin or Bard respectively. This keeps them unique while also allowing them to be played in similar ways to other classes to allow the players to blur the lines between the defined classes as much as possible.
The Artificer however, seems to have no clear lines to start with. Any class can be a crafter, you just need to be proficient. And sure the Artificer gets ‘Tools of the Trade’ and ‘Tools Expertise’ to be faster at crafting these things but the rules in both the PHB and XGtE are so dull and time consuming that in this context faster and easier still doest mean fast and easy
Also, artificer gets fabricate. It is at a higher level, sure, but they do get it. What forge cleric has is basically an infusion they can give to one of their weapons, and the ability to instantly craft something provided they have the metal. They do not get the ability to create magic items, or to have variety in what they craft. Yes, they can quickly push out plate armor faster than the artificer, but the only the artificer can make that plate armor a +1 armor, or another kind of magic armor.
Depends on the DM and what they determine is “light activity”. I personally let my players craft or whatever during rests, but again, the lack luster rules on this matter leave a bit too much to the discretion of the DM
Yeah, if you are making a build devoted to the manipulation of objects, you can do stuff earlier than the artificer. But that does not mean they are a better crafter. An artificer can make more things, and these being magic things. Alchemist is better at crafting potions than any other build in the game, and artillerist with wands can be quite useful with lower level spells. Battle smith specializing in armor does tragically mean that you will likely never craft plate armor, but you can get +1 armor with 12.5 days of downtime. Thats pretty long, but you could also just get +1 armor with an infusion, at sacrifice of an infusion slot. And this armor never goes away, always keeping this benefit. (personally, I would appreciate it if they said that you could make magic items in a fifth of the normal time in the subclass description, to make 1 workday equal to a workweek, easier to calculate.)
or armor, or wands (less useful admittedly). Yeah, alchemist crafting healing potions is a subclass feature all into itself. But the artificer can still make magic items, the forge cleric or fabricate cannot. Wizard isn't proficient with tools either, you'd need to get that from multiclassing, a feat, race, or background.
Regarding Wizard getting multiclassing to get its tool proficiencies, I've been considering that for some time. If you multiclass with two or three levels in Artificer as your starting class, and take it the rest of the way in Wizard, by the time you're at Level 11/12, you're basically an object god with Fabricate, Animate Objects, Mending, the Infuse Item feature and other interesting utility spells like Knock and Enlarge/Reduce, which you get much earlier than you would as a pure Artificer.
If you happen do be a human, or a half human of some sort the ‘Prodigy’ feat from XGtE is perfect cause you can even take Expertise in something.
Additionally almost any background that you would take as an Artificer to make a “true crafting” character will give you tool proficiencies anyway and some times they over lap which is sometimes more frustrating than useful
Ok yes, there are things in the game that allows you to replicate the artificer class features, with the right build. So what? The artificer is not a core class. If you feel that thematically it is better for your "artificer" to have fabricate early, then multiclass, and lose your improved infusions. Or, maybe, they could have a "once per long rest spell" infusions for fabricate? Like idk
Shaping Sand
requirements (8th level artificer, 1 wooden bowl and 1 pound of sand)
Requires attunement (only attunable to an artificer)
While holding this bowl of sand, once per long rest, you may cast the spell Fabricate without expending an artificer spell slot, even if you do not know it. If you use this on a metal object to create armor, you may create magic armor of common or uncommon rarity, and if you use this on a metal object to create a weapon, you may create a magic weapon of common or uncommon rarity. You may not create a magic item with this that requires attunement. The item you have created with this loses any magical property at the end of your next long rest, and you must use the shaping sand to imbue it with magic again.
Requirements (8th level artificer, a ball of string)
Requires attunement (only attunable to an artificer)
While holding these strings, once per long rest, as an action you may speak the command word and cast Animate Objects without expending an artificer spell slot, even if you do not know it. When you cast Animate Objects like this, you command the animated objects using an action, not a bonus action. If a creature has truesight, they can see thin strings emerging from your hands into these objects.
Improvements: at 14th level, you may use this item instead to take control over a creature of Large size or lower. They can make a CHA saving throw against your spell save DC to resist this. On a success, this item, does nothing, and its one charge is wasted. On a failure, you may use your reaction to control what the creature does on its turn. At the end of each of this creatures turns, they may reroll this saving throw. If the creature dies, the strings snap, and your control over them is lost.
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So I am creating this thread to air the grievances I have with the current UA Artificer class, in an attempt to see if i am alone here in my dislike for it in its current state
I am going to go feature by feature so that you don't have to read the entire post in order to find a part that you agree or disagree with me and provide me with your feedback in the comments please
Edit: If you are going to vote, and especially if you disagree with me, please leave a comment im trying to use this more to get a better idea of stuff
Preface; I am a huge fan of the idea of an Artificer. The Alchemist is my favorite fantasy archetype of all time so i have been following artificer since the 2016 UA flop. I like a lot of ideas it had but it just didn't have much of any freedom to the class. This version has sooo much freedom that it seems like it doesn't actually know what its supposed to do and no clear way to refine the skills down. Sadly this looks like the almost final version of this class, but either way I would enjoy the discourse.
Level 1
Proficiencies - I love that they have INT and CON saving throws, it really makes sense, however I wish they got 3 skill proficiencies because, while they get a lot of tool proficiencies those only become useful about 10% of the time whereas almost all of the skills can be useful in any given session. Also, i can't understand for the life of me why the continuously decide to give this class thieves tools and even allow them to be used as a casting focus. This Makes Zero Sense At All Please Explain.
Magical Tinkering - This is a good skill, however it is a horrible class feature and needs to instead be changed to an Artificer only cantrip. Every time I see it I just think “Druidcraft, but worse because it takes up an entire class feature”.
Spellcasting - I think here they did a pretty good job with the tiny little box that they put themselves in. It makes sense that you need to use tools as a casting focus, and I like the idea of a prepared list like a cleric, however, YOU CANT COUNTERSPELL A HEALING POTION. To elaborate, the idea that you have to spend all of this extra time in flavoring and essentially recreating the spell yourself, only for it to have to follow all the same rules as every other class is soooo irritating. Anyclass can reflavor acid splash into a vial, or lesser restoration into a salve and people have been doing it for years. This class fails to convince me why I should be a battle smith as opposed to a forge cleric when i want to be a True crafter essentially.
Level 2
Infuse Item - This is a great feature and I like the customization because i feel that the Artificer need to be the most customizable class. However this feature needs a few tweaks; 1) Some of the infusions are pointless, namely ‘Many-Handed Pouch’ and ‘Boots of the Winding Path’ these literally just need to be added to the DMs guide and moved to ‘Replicate Magic Item’ cause they are a complete waste of thought here 2) Holy Xanathar does there need to be more of these. There are only about 3 super unique ones that i feel can be reflavored in a way that makes sense to any given subclass and i feel that is a problem.
Level 3
Tool Expertise - Perfect!
Artificer Specialist - I will go in depth in these at the end, but here I'll just say, I think this should be a 1st level archetype class and at the very least 2nd level. 3rd levels are a disgrace. Additionally I will mention that the fact the subclasses here only getting 3 levels of class feature is very disappointing. Not to mention there is no customization within the subclasses themselves.
Level 5
Arcane Armament - I understand the idea for this feature, however its kinda dumb. The idea that somehow you are only good at using a sword as long as it's a flaming sword fails to make sense to me. Not to mention unlike the 2016 version you still only have 3 attunement slots at this point so the chances of a non-frontline class (most of the time) fighting with a weapon is dumb. Not to mention this super specific extra attack can't even stack with other extra attacks which is a complete waste, if you ask me.
Level 10
Right Cantrip for the Job - The idea of this feature is not bad, but it falls short. Mostly i think cause you wait until 10th level for it. The idea behind this and the arcane armament is so that you can decide if you want to be more of a tool user or magic users and constantly change your cantrips. Soooo why not give them at the same time?? I feel like this is only a 10th level feature because they had nothing else to fill the space. I have never encountered a 10th level spell caster that wasn't super confident in the spells they had readily available at any given time.
Level 18
Spell-Storing Item - An interesting interpretation of the original ‘Infuse Magic’. I can definitely see this being exploited with something like cure wounds. Not to mention, yet again, there is no benefit to flavoring this to fit your crafting style instead of just tapping a sword and say “okay now you can use absorb elements for a while”.
Level 20
Soul of Artifice - This is literally just a copy paste from the 2016 version. It's like the person who put it together completely overlooked the fact that you gain no additionally attunements up until this point, and then they double. While this is nice, if you could survive this long with just 3 attuned items, a whole 19 other levels, then they only reason to suddenly do it is the +6 you get to all saving throws, then you could survive without it. Nice, but unhelpful this late.
Alchemist
Tools of the Trade - The granting of the alchemist supplies And the herbalism kit is honestly more annoying than useful to me. Just say something like “You are so practiced in the use of both of these tools that you can use an alchemist's supplies as if it is an herbalism kit” cause that's just a lot of junk in my pocket.
Alchemist Spells - While I understand these, i feel like i would have a hard time flavoring a few of these namely ‘Purify Food and Drink’
Alchemical Homunculus - This thing is utterly useless and stupid. I could write an entire essay about what is wrong with this thing but for now i will sum it up as; More work than its worth.
Alchemical Mastery - A fine idea and perfect for an Alchemist, however whoever said “that roll must either restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage” must never have heard or alchemical fire. Or literally anything. Who in the world only makes acid and poison as an alchemist? This is a good place where the reflavoring spells as potion should grant you a benefit but they decided that we cant have fun.
Chemical Savant - Makes sense, however this is an extremely boring final subclass feature that doesn't even make you stronger than most of the monsters you fight because most monsters in the game are just straight up immune to poison completely.
Archivist
I'm honestly not even going to try here. Mostly because they said that they aren't going to be keeping this subclass in but also because it's just a lot of convoluted bull that honestly seems like its more work than its worth.
Artillerist
Tools of the Trade - In my opinion the weaponsmith and the wandsmith don't need to be combined in such a sad way. And again, just getting a wooden wand is useless and if you got this feature at level 1 you could just buy one as a starting item instead.
Artillerist Spells - They all make sense but I literally can't think of how this class is supposed to be able to flavor all these totally different spells in unique ways except by just “I cast this spell, BUT with is WAnd”
Arcane Turret - Firstly is says ‘magically summon’ so please tell me how i am supposed to flavor this and don’t say carry it. My tiny rock gnome tinkerer will not be able to carry this beast. Anyway, the features that this turrent provides are pretty much all over the place and the entire turret itself is overpowered early on but then becomes pretty useless later on.
Wand Prototype - A cool idea that just kinda falls off. Like okay, we get it, you like wands, but the Bard over here can cast ‘Vicious Mockery’ all of the time and doesn't have to hold on to a stick to do so. It just doesn't add as much versatility as you would think especially because this class cannot fill a main spell caster roll and this doesn't help. Just take the Magic initiate feat and move on
Fortified Position - This class almost doesn't know what it wants, flipping back and forth between wand magic and things the turret can. But no we are here and we have 2 turrets. Whoopie? Well only sometimes we have two, but it protects people now! But only if they are closed to it.... and a fight should probably never be focused around your turret because you are still a squishy little spell caster
Battle Smith
Tools of the Trade - What didn't we already have smith's tools?? Guess the other one wasn't quite right so here we go again...
Battle Smith Spells - They make sense for the role that this subclass is supposed to play, even if its even more unrefined than all the other subclasses. Again, don't see how i am supposed to reflavor these.
Battle Ready- Yay! The only half-caster without martial weapon proficiency finally gets it! But only if you take a specific subclass. At least this one rewards you for being smart without an annoying restriction (im looking at you Alchemist)
Iron Defender - I actually cannot believe that they tried this mechanical servant again, but somehow managed to make it worse. Again, as with the Homunculus, it almost takes more work to use than it is worth. It's also way to easy to replace, but that seems to be a common theme in this class. Also the ‘Defensive Pounce’ is overpowered.
Arcane Jolt - This feature just further confirms that this subclass doesn't know if its a support, a frontline fighter or a summoner type.
Improved Defender - Another extremely boring final subclass feature that attempts to make some kinda underwhelming features stronger. Also makes ‘Defensive Pounce’ overpowered again
Artificer Spell List - Its alright, it is kinda awkward for a class to have almost all of the damaging cantrips but almost no damaging spells. And please for the love of the GODS let Artificer have Legend Lore i beeeeeeg you
New Spell: Arcane Weapon - I really like this spell. I'm mostly just confused as to why we need this instead of just like, a class feature that make elemental weapon actually good or something.
Multiclassing - Why does this make the Artificer proficient in Tinkers tools without a choice, but the base class on Beyond doesnt????
Theives tools have in them a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. Thats why the artificer gets them. The casting through tools i agree does not make sense, i think it should be rewritten to "your tools or a device you have created with these tools (You may improvise a device on the spot)". The tool proficiencies come up rarely, but allow it to craft more stuff during downtime (if there is any). Magical tinkering does not take up a class feature, it is a ribbon ability and if removed they likely would not have something more useful to replace it. If anything it is better than druidcraft because you get it for free. spellcasting makes sense to me, you could say that counterspell just prevents the potions effects from taking place. A bit of a stretch but eh. Infuse item agreed they need more, but with boots of the winding path and many handed pouch is just extra items not in the DMG. If they were it would be in replicate magic item, but they are not going to add more items to the DMG at this point. And yeah, i like them but there do need to be more interesting ones, with more variety than "+1 item" and "+1 item with a bonus feature". Arcane armament is there like that because they want you to rp your artificer as using magic items, instead of just being good at swords. You could easily expend a spell slot to get Arcane Weapon and use it, or use an infusion for yourself. The right cantrip for the job? Yeah that should have been a level 1-3 feature, perhaps with some kind of improvement at level 10 (like picking your cantrips from any classes spell list or something). Spell storing i feel is cool, but a little disappointing at 18th level, when the wizard can cast most of these spells AT WILL. Soul of artifice agreed, should have had some other benefit (being proficient in all tools and being proficient with any magic item you are attuned to?). Alchemist yeah, they have some problems there. Purify food and drink feels weird as a spell there, yeah. Alchemical homunculous i like the idea but think it should have been an infusion, i miss the satchel honestly. Alchemical mastery should have been acid, poison, fire, ice, lightning, and thunder. Chemical savant is a bit disappointing, but i think its ok. Archivist had its problems, yeah. With artillerist tools of the trade i think the idea was crafting wands like Wand of Polymorph and Wand of Fireball. The spells i feel fit into the "mad inventor" archetype, with explosive spells. Arcane turret you can flavor is quickly building, like from scraps around you, but idk. The abilities of arcane turret are fine IMO. Wand prototype was weird, yeah. Fortified position felt good to me. Battle smith gets smiths tools as well, yes, but it is more based around building weapons and armor. Battle Ready felt good to me, you can only use your INT when it is a magic weapon, so it is based around using them. For the smite spells, you could flavor it as flicking a switch on your weapon and it glowing with magical power for a bit as you used it. Iron defender was fine to me, scales with level and is more personalized than "beastmaster but better". Defensive pounce is the main draw of it, but it is not OP. It allows you to fight as a frontline fighter with a bit of defense, considering you dont get heavy armor or some Int based unarmed defense. I just wish they did not specify "four legged creature", and instead let you pick whatever you wanted, like an armoured knight to fight alongside you or a faerie dragon or a wolf, as long as it shared the same stat block. Arcane jolt was disappointing, the other 6th level features were bonus to your spells, but this one is just a once in a while extra healing or damage. 14th level defensive pounce dealing damage is also good for me, its only 1d4+1, should have had a different thing for arcane jolt tho. For the spell list, i agree, legend lore would work totally. Also teleportation circle. The reason we get damaging cantrips but no damaging spells is because the artificer uses spells for utility, not for attacking (except artillerist). Arcane weapon as a class feature would also work, and elemental weapon is a 3rd level spell, while arcane weapon is supposed to make the artificer decent with weapons at lower levels.
I can definitely see your opinion on some of these points for sure. I think my main issue with the class as a whole is the lack of necessity and the lack of reason to reflavor things. Sure it makes you super cool, i love the things that even they just suggest to you. I just REALLY feel there needs to be more of a reward for doing so.
I also feel like i focused most of my complaints into the fact that the class itself is supposed to be a Utility/Support class that can hold its own and my opinions on how they did or didnt do in that regard.
yeah. I think the reward is feeling good about your character, or inspiration if your DM lets you. But I can see how there is no benefit other than narrative to flavor it, and how that is a problem.
To be honest, I just fail to see what the Artificer is supposed to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "This version has sooo much freedom that it seems like it doesn't actually know what its supposed to do and no clear way to refine the skills down." I think that sums up my opinions on the class.
I feel like it just falls on its face since your role in the party isn't needed/unclear. Are you a DPR? A Support? A Tank? The answer is to all of these is maybe! I like the idea of a versatile class but sometimes versatility is bad.
An example is the Barbarian. We can all agree that the Barbarian is a pretty simple class. You're a big tough tank that has good damage to boot. That's the jist of it! You aren't a party's face, you don't have crazy skills, lots of magical variety, and stealth characteristics. You are a tank and a good source of damage. That's it. You are really good at what you do, and its fun to play since you can easily understand what your role is and how to do it.
Oh you don't want to play a Barbarian? Well why not try a Ranger then? You can be a ranged DPR. Oh you want to heal? How about a Cleric? Oh but you want a good Charisma score too? Then Bard is a great pick!
Every class has pretty clear roles that they slid into and it just seems like the Artificer doesn't. Alchemy and stuff is really cool! But making potions doesn't really fulfill any needed role. Maybe if you amped up the magic aspect a lot, it might get better. But then I feel like you're heading into territory that the Wizard and Sorcerer already have.
I don't know, its a pretty tricky class admittedly. I just don't see the point of playing one outside of thematic reasons.
Thats exactly what i mean, and if you are going for thematic reasons you dont Need to be an Artificer.
Every time i think about reflavoring spells i think to the “Force Grey” mini series that Matt Mercer DMed where Ashley Johnson played a half orc cleric and cast all her spells as little objects that she had crafted. She played a cleric and essentially did all of the things that this class is Supposed to do and her character worked out So Well!
Hmm. Well it looks like all episodes of “Force Grey: Giant Hunters” are now private so i dont know for sure but im 90% sure that the character predates Xanathars Guide And therefore couldn't have even been a Forge cleric which is kinda funny to me.
Well bunsen said that its because they a have “a pair if pliers and a screwdriver” which i think is a lame excuse because almost any tool set can have those things. The idea that they can disable traps and the like does make sense but i still cannot get past the fact that thieves tools can be used as a spell casting focus. That detail just seems like they are trying to add more functionality to something that they realize isn't a functional system.
By that i mean, giving people an easy way to cast spells because they know people dont care about reflavoring everything themselves so instead they said “use thieves tools cause all the other tools are functionally useless to the way the class works”
I think the idea is that the class is very open, with a bit of emphasis on support and utility, but each subclass is devoted to a specific playstyle. Alchemist for healing (healing potions and getting healing spells for free as abilities), Artillerist for spell slinger (turrets basically cast a weak 1st spell every turn, and you get more better cantrips, as well as spells devoted to combat and big magical effects), and battle smith for using weapons (You can use INT with magic weapons, you get spells that are designed to be used alongside weapons, or to support a party in combat, iron defender can protect you on the battlefield). I don't know what kind of playstyle archivist was trying to fit into (skill proficiencies? utility? psychic stuff?) but i can see the ones for the other subclasses easily.
And you aren't a better crafter as a forge cleric or as a wizard with fabricate. Fabricate cannot make magic items, and forge cleric you only get 1 magic item, which is just a +1 weapon, or burn an infusion to create a non magical metal one. Yes, with the artificer making magic items takes longer than casting fabricate or using your channel divinity, unless you are doing it as an infusion, but you can do it for anything and make it last permanently, and make it be magic. With those, you are a transmuter. With the artificer, you are an actual crafter.
You could say that the bard is a better paladin because they can use high level smite spells at a lower level than the paladin with magical secrets, and cast healing spells to replace lay on hands. But that does not make the build of the bard a better divine warrior than the paladin. I see this as the same thing.
or armor, or wands (less useful admittedly). Yeah, alchemist crafting healing potions is a subclass feature all into itself. But the artificer can still make magic items, the forge cleric or fabricate cannot. Wizard isn't proficient with tools either, you'd need to get that from multiclassing, a feat, race, or background.
I definitely agree more with Crawling_Chaos argument here. The way that ‘Lay on Hands’ and ‘Magical Secrets’ work is they are supposed to be functionally the same as things other classes can do, but as a Paladin or Bard respectively. This keeps them unique while also allowing them to be played in similar ways to other classes to allow the players to blur the lines between the defined classes as much as possible.
The Artificer however, seems to have no clear lines to start with. Any class can be a crafter, you just need to be proficient. And sure the Artificer gets ‘Tools of the Trade’ and ‘Tools Expertise’ to be faster at crafting these things but the rules in both the PHB and XGtE are so dull and time consuming that in this context faster and easier still doest mean fast and easy
Also, artificer gets fabricate. It is at a higher level, sure, but they do get it. What forge cleric has is basically an infusion they can give to one of their weapons, and the ability to instantly craft something provided they have the metal. They do not get the ability to create magic items, or to have variety in what they craft. Yes, they can quickly push out plate armor faster than the artificer, but the only the artificer can make that plate armor a +1 armor, or another kind of magic armor.
Wait, you can craft during long rests, right?
Depends on the DM and what they determine is “light activity”. I personally let my players craft or whatever during rests, but again, the lack luster rules on this matter leave a bit too much to the discretion of the DM
Yeah, if you are making a build devoted to the manipulation of objects, you can do stuff earlier than the artificer. But that does not mean they are a better crafter. An artificer can make more things, and these being magic things. Alchemist is better at crafting potions than any other build in the game, and artillerist with wands can be quite useful with lower level spells. Battle smith specializing in armor does tragically mean that you will likely never craft plate armor, but you can get +1 armor with 12.5 days of downtime. Thats pretty long, but you could also just get +1 armor with an infusion, at sacrifice of an infusion slot. And this armor never goes away, always keeping this benefit. (personally, I would appreciate it if they said that you could make magic items in a fifth of the normal time in the subclass description, to make 1 workday equal to a workweek, easier to calculate.)
If you happen do be a human, or a half human of some sort the ‘Prodigy’ feat from XGtE is perfect cause you can even take Expertise in something.
Additionally almost any background that you would take as an Artificer to make a “true crafting” character will give you tool proficiencies anyway and some times they over lap which is sometimes more frustrating than useful
Ok yes, there are things in the game that allows you to replicate the artificer class features, with the right build. So what? The artificer is not a core class. If you feel that thematically it is better for your "artificer" to have fabricate early, then multiclass, and lose your improved infusions. Or, maybe, they could have a "once per long rest spell" infusions for fabricate? Like idk
Shaping Sand
requirements (8th level artificer, 1 wooden bowl and 1 pound of sand)
Requires attunement (only attunable to an artificer)
While holding this bowl of sand, once per long rest, you may cast the spell Fabricate without expending an artificer spell slot, even if you do not know it. If you use this on a metal object to create armor, you may create magic armor of common or uncommon rarity, and if you use this on a metal object to create a weapon, you may create a magic weapon of common or uncommon rarity. You may not create a magic item with this that requires attunement. The item you have created with this loses any magical property at the end of your next long rest, and you must use the shaping sand to imbue it with magic again.
String of the Puppetmaster
Requirements (8th level artificer, a ball of string)
Requires attunement (only attunable to an artificer)
While holding these strings, once per long rest, as an action you may speak the command word and cast Animate Objects without expending an artificer spell slot, even if you do not know it. When you cast Animate Objects like this, you command the animated objects using an action, not a bonus action. If a creature has truesight, they can see thin strings emerging from your hands into these objects.
Improvements: at 14th level, you may use this item instead to take control over a creature of Large size or lower. They can make a CHA saving throw against your spell save DC to resist this. On a success, this item, does nothing, and its one charge is wasted. On a failure, you may use your reaction to control what the creature does on its turn. At the end of each of this creatures turns, they may reroll this saving throw. If the creature dies, the strings snap, and your control over them is lost.