So, rather obviously, I'm looking for every possible situation I can use Alchemical Savant with and felt like I'd go ahead shut down the last psuedo-possibility firmly for myself today. Plus thinking about it raised some weird questions so I thought I'd ask them.
The Artillerist's Arcane Firearm can be applied to a magic item already so that bonus 1d8 can be applied to spells contained within the magic items they hold so long as those spells are on their spell list.
But could Alchemical Savant be applied at all here? My assumption is it can't.
Things to note:
AS requires alchemist supplies to be used as spellcasting focus.
Artificers require a spellcasting focus for any spell cast using their Spellcasting feature.
For literally everyone other than the artificer and especially the alchemist a spellcasting focus is used exclusively as a replacement for material components that aren't consumed or have a listed monetary cost written next to them.
Unless said otherwise in their description magic items do not require components when casting a spell they allow their user to cast, thus they do not require the caster to use a spellcasting focus.
Some magic items require the user to be a spellcaster to attune/use them.
Is an artificer required to use a spellcasting focus when casting spells from a magic item? (I'm assuming no.)
Would the magic item itself count as a spellcasting focus (for that spell, not necessarily in general) in this case?
Does casting a spell from an item count as done so through the caster's spellcasting feature if that item requires them to be a spellcaster?
Can an artificer (or any class) use a spellcasting focus when casting a spell even if it's unnecessary?
Can an artificer (or any class) use multiple spellcasting foci simultaneously for the same spell? Or is that an only one allowed thing?
So I guess the sample question here is can a Wand of Fireballs benefit from Alchemical Savant? (Requires a spellcaster, does fire damage, can be used as a spellcasting focus)
Is an artificer required to use a spellcasting focus when casting spells from a magic item? (I'm assuming no.)
Would the magic item itself count as a spellcasting focus (for that spell, not necessarily in general) in this case?
Does casting a spell from an item count as done so through the caster's spellcasting feature if that item requires them to be a spellcaster?
Can an artificer (or any class) use a spellcasting focus when casting a spell even if it's unnecessary?
Can an artificer (or any class) use multiple spellcasting foci simultaneously for the same spell? Or is that an only one allowed thing?
So I guess the sample question here is can a Wand of Fireballs benefit from Alchemical Savant? (Requires a spellcaster, does fire damage, can be used as a spellcasting focus)
So don't take my word for gospel, but this is my interpretation of how it would be answered.
Given the spellcasting focus is required for casting artificer spells, not the item's spell, I don't think it is required.
If the item is a magical version of a spellcasting focus (like a wand, staff, etc.) and the spell it was using had a material component (refer point 1), then it would count for that spell.
It counts as you casting it, but doesn't count as part of your class' spellcasting feature. For example, a thief rogue could use the wands, bypassing their item prerequisite, but lacks the spellcasting feature.
From Sage Advice (in short, should be fine for artificer spells as they kinda always require a material component of a spellcasting focus):
WHAT’S THE AMOUNT OF INTERACTION NEEDED TO USE A SPELLCASTING FOCUS? DOES IT HAVE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SOMATIC COMPONENT?
If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (see page 203 in the Player’s Handbook). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component. If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component. Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other. If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
From what I would figure, no. You channel a single spell, and it would be down a single focus. However, didn't notice anything concrete on this, so maybe you can shoot half of your magic missiles from one wand and the other half from the other etc.
Example: You are casting a fireball spell from the wand (as the wand states you cast from it). It wouldn't be cast with your alchemist's supplies, so wouldn't benefit from your Alchemical Savant as it isn't cast from your alchemist's supplies. However, if you got a spell that was added to your artificer spell list (like a Rakdos Cultist casting Wall of Fire), then you could cast that through your alchemist's tools and reap the benefits.
If 2 is true and 5 is allowed then a wand of fireballs acting as the spellcasting focus for Fireball, a spell with a material component, then one could effectively use two spellcasting focuses one being the wand and the other potentially being Alchemist's Supplies. That would be an interpretation allowing for AS to be applied to a wand of fireball.
Flavor wise it's something like holding a wand in one hand and an oil filled squirt gun in the other and using the same action cast fireball and fire a steam of oil specially designed to enhance the 20 foot radius fireball to burn at a higher temperature.
However modifying wands, mechanically speaking, is a thing that Artillerists do so I understand if a DM decides that's unreasonable for an Alchemist to do.
It's a pain that the wording of Alchemical Savant is applied strictly to spells and casting a spell. It would be extremely in keeping with the Alchemist flavor to apply the same benefits to potions and things crafted via Alchemist Supplies. Such as an acid vial or a Potion of Fire Breath, or a bomb since that one would actually be (modestly) AOE.
Of the Experimental Elixir option only one would benefit, granted it already applies an INT bonus to healing so one could consider it already benefitting from the alchemist's experience just benefiting from level 3 instead of 5.
I really wish they had stipulated that Artificer Tool focus worked like a component bag. There is an argument that the Magic of the ARtificer section means you do use it like that. As it describes using the tools to make your spell items in the morning when you prepare. But that's up to a GM.
As near as I can tell. There isn't actually a way to make it work with a magical item. Even if you use the lv11 ability and make it on your alchemical tools, you arne't usuing them as a focus with that saved spell techincally...So it wouldn't give it sadly.
Which is in general a problem with alchemist. Very specific and limiting things. I do wish it was just a restricted bonus that could be openly applied.
Granted magic items say you use an action to "cast" the spell. so you could argue that its casting so you can focus. Go figure though
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So, rather obviously, I'm looking for every possible situation I can use Alchemical Savant with and felt like I'd go ahead shut down the last psuedo-possibility firmly for myself today. Plus thinking about it raised some weird questions so I thought I'd ask them.
The Artillerist's Arcane Firearm can be applied to a magic item already so that bonus 1d8 can be applied to spells contained within the magic items they hold so long as those spells are on their spell list.
But could Alchemical Savant be applied at all here? My assumption is it can't.
Things to note:
So my weird questions here:
So I guess the sample question here is can a Wand of Fireballs benefit from Alchemical Savant?
(Requires a spellcaster, does fire damage, can be used as a spellcasting focus)
So don't take my word for gospel, but this is my interpretation of how it would be answered.
WHAT’S THE AMOUNT OF INTERACTION NEEDED TO USE A SPELLCASTING FOCUS? DOES IT HAVE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SOMATIC COMPONENT?
If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (see page 203 in the Player’s Handbook). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.
If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component.
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
Example: You are casting a fireball spell from the wand (as the wand states you cast from it). It wouldn't be cast with your alchemist's supplies, so wouldn't benefit from your Alchemical Savant as it isn't cast from your alchemist's supplies. However, if you got a spell that was added to your artificer spell list (like a Rakdos Cultist casting Wall of Fire), then you could cast that through your alchemist's tools and reap the benefits.
Thank you very much for that reply.
If 2 is true and 5 is allowed then a wand of fireballs acting as the spellcasting focus for Fireball, a spell with a material component, then one could effectively use two spellcasting focuses one being the wand and the other potentially being Alchemist's Supplies. That would be an interpretation allowing for AS to be applied to a wand of fireball.
Flavor wise it's something like holding a wand in one hand and an oil filled squirt gun in the other and using the same action cast fireball and fire a steam of oil specially designed to enhance the 20 foot radius fireball to burn at a higher temperature.
However modifying wands, mechanically speaking, is a thing that Artillerists do so I understand if a DM decides that's unreasonable for an Alchemist to do.
It's a pain that the wording of Alchemical Savant is applied strictly to spells and casting a spell. It would be extremely in keeping with the Alchemist flavor to apply the same benefits to potions and things crafted via Alchemist Supplies. Such as an acid vial or a Potion of Fire Breath, or a bomb since that one would actually be (modestly) AOE.
Of the Experimental Elixir option only one would benefit, granted it already applies an INT bonus to healing so one could consider it already benefitting from the alchemist's experience just benefiting from level 3 instead of 5.
In general Alch savant is rough.
I really wish they had stipulated that Artificer Tool focus worked like a component bag. There is an argument that the Magic of the ARtificer section means you do use it like that. As it describes using the tools to make your spell items in the morning when you prepare. But that's up to a GM.
As near as I can tell. There isn't actually a way to make it work with a magical item. Even if you use the lv11 ability and make it on your alchemical tools, you arne't usuing them as a focus with that saved spell techincally...So it wouldn't give it sadly.
Which is in general a problem with alchemist. Very specific and limiting things. I do wish it was just a restricted bonus that could be openly applied.
Granted magic items say you use an action to "cast" the spell. so you could argue that its casting so you can focus. Go figure though