I am perhaps overthinking this but, for a barbarians Brutal critical at level 9 with a one handed long sword with a str of 18 and ranging, would the damage be (1d8x2 +3+4+1d8) or would it be (2d8x2+3+4). I guess all I'm asking is if the brutal critical comes with the double damage or after. thank you so much :)
It depends on what kind of crit rules your group is running with. Some groups double the dice roll on a hit while others double the damage from the hit. Some other group I ran with have a different rule altogether.
If you are running the double dice rule then:
Normal hit with longsword will be 1d8 + 4 + 3
Crit without Brutal will be 2d8 + 4 + 3
Crit with Brutal will be 3d8 + 4 + 3
Now if you were running the double damage rule then I would assume it would be like this
By default, you roll all of the attack's damage dice again. Notably, this does not include flat modifiers. So, let's assume, conservatively, that your 9th-level barbarian is raging and has a Strength of 18. According to Hoyle, Brutal Critical would have you to roll 3d8 + 4 + 3 weapon damage. (The longsword does 3d8, plus 4 for Strength and 3 for Rage.) But some tables house rule it differently. And that's between you and your DM. If you're doubling, then barbarians just force you to do extra math. Let's look at Ashley Johnson's character, Yasha Nydoorin, from Critical Role. Yasha is a 13th-level barbarian and follows the Path of the Zealot, so she's a good example of just how complicated doubling can be. Especially since that's how they handle it on the show.
Yasha has a Strength score of 18, for a +4 modifier, and at 13th-level her Rage Damage is +3, and her Brutal Critical adds 2 dice. She also mainly fights with greatswords. And as a zealot, her first attack that connects during her turn deals 1d6 + 6 (we round down unless otherwise stated) radiant or necrotic damage. So if her first attack that landed were a critical hit, by RAW it would look like this:
The first simplified parenthetical is for the greatsword's slashing damage, and the second is for Divine Fury. But if you're just doubling the initial damage rolled, it looks more like this:
(2d6 * 2) + 2d6 + 7 + (1d6 * 2) + 6
If that looks more confusing, that's because it is. Some of the weapon's damage dice are doubled and some are not. You could, theoretically, simplify it further to (3d6 * 2) + 7 + (1d6 * 2) + 6. But that's only a temporary stop-gap as Brutal Critical eventually adds a third die to the mix, so you're still odd. I certainly wouldn't want to double some brutal critical dice and not others. And lastly, while that's technically fewer d6s needed to roll up the damage you also have to partition them so as not to confuse the result.
In your case, it might eventually look like this: (2d8 * 2) + 3d8 + 7 + 4. That assumes a 20th-level barbarian with a Strength score of 24. You'd save yourself one roll of one die.
###
FYI, What I do is maximize the initial attack dice and have everyone roll normally for the extra damage. So the same critical hit from Yasha at my table would be 4d6 + 19 slashing damage and 1d6 + 12 radiant/necrotic damage.
Basically it's 1d8 for the longsword in your example. 1d8 for the critical. 1d8 for brutal critical. For a total of 3d8 and then your static modifiers on top. In the case of your example that would be +3 and +4.
At 13th level you'd just add yet another 1d8 for a total of 4d8 + Static modifiers. at level 17 it would be 5d8+ static modifiers.
It's really not worth complicating the math any more than that because it isn't.
If your using a system where your simply doubling damage on a critical. Simply roll another d8 that isn't doubled on top of that and then add your static modifiers. And of course add one more die of damage at 13 and another at 17.
People have made this topic confusing because critical his have been heavily house-ruled in many different ways. The phb says that you ROLL double the dice on a critical hit. There shouldn't really be any math equations or order of operations necessary. If you have a 1d8 damage die, you roll 2d8 for a critical hit. As you level up in barbarian, you add the additional dice for brutal critical, just like Fateless explained.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I am perhaps overthinking this but, for a barbarians Brutal critical at level 9 with a one handed long sword with a str of 18 and ranging, would the damage be (1d8x2 +3+4+1d8) or would it be (2d8x2+3+4). I guess all I'm asking is if the brutal critical comes with the double damage or after. thank you so much :)
It depends on what kind of crit rules your group is running with. Some groups double the dice roll on a hit while others double the damage from the hit. Some other group I ran with have a different rule altogether.
If you are running the double dice rule then:
Normal hit with longsword will be 1d8 + 4 + 3
Crit without Brutal will be 2d8 + 4 + 3
Crit with Brutal will be 3d8 + 4 + 3
Now if you were running the double damage rule then I would assume it would be like this
Normal hit 1d8 + 4 + 3
Crit without Brutal (1d8 + 4 +3) x 2
Crit with Brutal (2d8 + 4 + 3) x 2
By default, you roll all of the attack's damage dice again. Notably, this does not include flat modifiers. So, let's assume, conservatively, that your 9th-level barbarian is raging and has a Strength of 18. According to Hoyle, Brutal Critical would have you to roll 3d8 + 4 + 3 weapon damage. (The longsword does 3d8, plus 4 for Strength and 3 for Rage.) But some tables house rule it differently. And that's between you and your DM. If you're doubling, then barbarians just force you to do extra math. Let's look at Ashley Johnson's character, Yasha Nydoorin, from Critical Role. Yasha is a 13th-level barbarian and follows the Path of the Zealot, so she's a good example of just how complicated doubling can be. Especially since that's how they handle it on the show.
Yasha has a Strength score of 18, for a +4 modifier, and at 13th-level her Rage Damage is +3, and her Brutal Critical adds 2 dice. She also mainly fights with greatswords. And as a zealot, her first attack that connects during her turn deals 1d6 + 6 (we round down unless otherwise stated) radiant or necrotic damage. So if her first attack that landed were a critical hit, by RAW it would look like this:
Detailed: 2d6 (weapon) + 2d6 (critical hit) + 2d6 (Brutal Critical) + 4 (STR) + 3 (Rage) + 1d6 (Divine Fury1) + 6 (Divine Fury2)
Simplified: (6d6 + 7) + (2d6 + 6)
The first simplified parenthetical is for the greatsword's slashing damage, and the second is for Divine Fury. But if you're just doubling the initial damage rolled, it looks more like this:
(2d6 * 2) + 2d6 + 7 + (1d6 * 2) + 6
If that looks more confusing, that's because it is. Some of the weapon's damage dice are doubled and some are not. You could, theoretically, simplify it further to (3d6 * 2) + 7 + (1d6 * 2) + 6. But that's only a temporary stop-gap as Brutal Critical eventually adds a third die to the mix, so you're still odd. I certainly wouldn't want to double some brutal critical dice and not others. And lastly, while that's technically fewer d6s needed to roll up the damage you also have to partition them so as not to confuse the result.
In your case, it might eventually look like this: (2d8 * 2) + 3d8 + 7 + 4. That assumes a 20th-level barbarian with a Strength score of 24. You'd save yourself one roll of one die.
###
FYI, What I do is maximize the initial attack dice and have everyone roll normally for the extra damage. So the same critical hit from Yasha at my table would be 4d6 + 19 slashing damage and 1d6 + 12 radiant/necrotic damage.
Rojolt your first equation is right.
Basically it's 1d8 for the longsword in your example. 1d8 for the critical. 1d8 for brutal critical. For a total of 3d8 and then your static modifiers on top. In the case of your example that would be +3 and +4.
At 13th level you'd just add yet another 1d8 for a total of 4d8 + Static modifiers. at level 17 it would be 5d8+ static modifiers.
It's really not worth complicating the math any more than that because it isn't.
If your using a system where your simply doubling damage on a critical. Simply roll another d8 that isn't doubled on top of that and then add your static modifiers. And of course add one more die of damage at 13 and another at 17.
People have made this topic confusing because critical his have been heavily house-ruled in many different ways. The phb says that you ROLL double the dice on a critical hit. There shouldn't really be any math equations or order of operations necessary. If you have a 1d8 damage die, you roll 2d8 for a critical hit. As you level up in barbarian, you add the additional dice for brutal critical, just like Fateless explained.