Hi! I need help to understand if it is possible to create a worth combination between my Owlin Wild Magic Barbarian and a possible Inquisitive Rogue Multiclass, rebuilding my level 7 (almost 8) character. Now, before talking about the all the numbers and the technical rules (where I'm not so prepared), I want to point out that this build is much more about roleplay and flavor than efficiency. At the same time, I would like to understand if, by doing this step, I can still keep a character useful in battle.
So, my Owlin is un unconventional barbarian that, after several events in the story, is developing some skill in the perception and investigation fields. I rolled this entry stats: 17 (St) – 14 (Dex) – 15 (Con) – 11 (Int) – 14 (Wis) – 8 (Cha) (TOT. 79). Now I'm at level 7 full Barbarian (Wild Magic) with these choices:
Racial SI: +2 Dex, +1 Con (to boost the Unarmored Defence)
ASI: +1 Str, +1 Int
Using a great-axe for combact, i deal 1d12 + 4 (Str) + 2 (rage) damage with one swing, with the possibility of two attacks and some helps thanks to the Wild Surge Effect and the Bolstering Magic to attack.
I was wondering, if I rebuild my character with 5 level Barbarian Wild Magic, then 3 level Rogue Inquisitive (to have all the observation skills boosted for flavor) and than carrying on with the barbarian level up, have the character a possibility to remain efficience? I have to surely change my fighting style, becasue to use the sneak attack i need finesse weapons, but can I change in combact between the axe and two daggers for example, or is better to use a two-weapon fighting style?
Adding three levels of rogue can work great. It’s viable potentially very tanky if you lean into dex. The cunning action feature from the rogue is especially useful on barbs.
im playing a barb 2 rogue 3 right now, and intend to go rogue for the next 15 levels. But I want those sneaky sneak dice for my swashbuckling character.
I go sword and shield on my character, but two weapon fighting is probably fine too. The sneak attack dice basically mean you have something better than the two weapon fighting style. And daggers with extra damage effects like acid are way cheaper than other magical weapons.
and a reminder: if you use wreckless attack to get sneak attack to activate, you do need to use strength for the attack. But that is perfect synergy if you are still building strength, and you even get rage damage on top!
Changing weapons in combat is not practical in most instances. You're allowed a single free draw or sheathe per round, another one takes your action. If you haven't had many situations where you've had to fall back to a ranged option, I recommend either rapier and shield or dual shortswords/scimitars, depending on whether you want an extra attack or more AC. Honestly, given that you're a Barbarian, I'd lean towards the two swords for the extra rage damage. Granted, the sneak attack bonus at only 3 levels of rogue might be underwhelming for you. 2d6 averages out to 7 damage- you'll be dropping about 2 or 3 damage per hit from your base weapon damage with the weapon die downgrade, double that for two attacks and you're looking at approx. 4-6 less. Honestly, if you only had your eye on Sneak Attack, this isn't really doing much for you. 3 levels means you're hitting a subclass; got your eye on some particular ribbon features?
First lets talk combat options: To get sneak and rage you are going to need finesse/ranged weapons, so holster those two handed weapons (unless you are an elf with the Revenant Blade feat wielding a DBS). If you dual wield you won't have the fighting style unless you grab a level of fighter this means that your bonus action attacks won't be hitting with your str bonus. Really annoying.
The ideal dual wield option if you take the feat is a rapier and whip. Just a lovely combo with two threatened ranges (5",10"). If you can't take the feat and don't want to burn a level on fighter it might be better to not dual wield at all.
3 levels of rogue gets you a 2d6 sneak and you will be using reckless attack or insightful fightingto trigger that every turn. Not bad. Insightful fighting has a bit of bonus action tax so think long and hard about dual wielding and how often you will really get a bonus action attack (and you need a bonus action to rage as well). Note here: you can bonus action insightful fighting, and if it fails still recklessly attack.
For Armor you can crank up medium armor which is great. If you don't dual wield you can add in a shield, and you have a nice AC.
So if you go rapier its two attacks for 1d8+str+rage with one attack carrying a sneak 2d6 as well. The weapon is doing 2 points less than the great weapon you could be using so potential -4 dam compared to 2d6 which average 7 which only requires you to hit once. Your real loss is not being able to go GWM with a barbarian, but that isn't the build. You come out ahead with the rapier so enjoy.
So if you half plate and shield with a rapier you are looking at more damage than a non PAM/GWM barbarian. Compared to an 8th level rogue you are doing 2d6 less sneak offset by rage damage and an extra attack (this is close to a wash although the rogue might have a dex of 20). You are trading uncanny dodge and evasion for rage damage reduction and danger sense. For AC you are looking at an AC of 17 (dex 14, half plate) or 19 (Dex 14, half plate shield) vs. AC of 17 (dex20, studded leather) for the rogue.
SKill side: Starting level 1 barb str/con saving throws 2 skills at 1st, 1 skill at 3rd, and 1 skill and thieves tools when you multi into rogue. Insight/investigation/perception are must haves, and only Perception comes from barbarian so you will need to pull Insight/investigation from Rogue/Racial/background. All reasonable. With scores listed you can expertise two of those, and one of your expertises should be spent on Insight. Your second is a hard choice: I am going to assume you get Survival and Athletics as well from barbarian. Choosing between Survival/ Athletics/ Investigation/ Perception is just rude. Also if you don't have another rogue in the party you should strongly consider expertising thieves tools. If your DM is gating traps with a threeway skill check (perception to spot, investigation to understand how it works, and tools to disarm) then you have a problem. In particular your investigation is not going to be very good. It would be really good to have an artificer who will get expertise in tools in the party.
Other options:
Using Tasha's rules you could add on a level of ranger for the expertise, maybe two to get a fighting style.
Skill expert would be a good way to round some of those skills. Instead of taking +1 Str/+1 Int you could take +1 Str, grab a skill, and expertise investigation. The expertise in investigation would be better than the +1 to intelligence (not counting int saving throws).
All in all its not a bad build for an angry Sherlock Holmes. In particular I like how you might be able to use insightful fighting to avoid recklessly attacking to grab the sneak damage. After Tasha's barbarians get a decent number of skills, but most of them aren't useful except athletics. This build would produce an interesting skill build while maintaining decent damage (for a rogue or non GWM/PAM barbarian).
I don't know what are this ribbon features, so if you can explain it to me that would be great!
My idea is not only to take take the Sneak Attack. Rather, this is the feature I want the less because I am more interesse in the skill expertise And the features of the inquisitive to have a better roleplay with an investigation/perceptive charachter. However, Sneak Attack is extremely important because is the only feature that can help me to mantain a certain amount of output damage, so my question Was to understand if there is a method to have a certain combat to remain efficient almost like a full level barbarian.
And as you have said, there is always a loss of some points of damage
Elfdope, thanks for both the comments. I would like to focus on the final part of ther second message, because you have highlighted AN important thing that I want to create: a mixer character that, after some story events, is building some skill expertise but he wants to mantain its original fury! So, obviously, this is difficult to achieve due to severals things.
First of all, as you said this kind of build in combat wolud be very addicted to the bonus action, so i have to spend the fist 2 rounds at least without using both the weapons to attack. Then, another important thing is that my chatacter maybe won't use some sort of weapons for flavor reasons, so i was thinking, if i want to go two-weapons style, i would like to take maybe two short-swords or one short sword and a dagger. I know this is bad, but in my head this have a much more impact in terms of roleplaying than use two rapiers.
At this point i think that, if i want to use this build, even if i go with all the best options I can, I will not be able to be compared to a full barbarian style. So the point is, how much points of damage am I losing doing this?
The other important aspect that you have talked about is the skill expert feats. Exactly as you said, i can respec my 4th level changing the ASI with the feat and perform a better perceptive player without that multiclass.
So non i dont know how to carry on... it is vero difficult
This can be viable although at 7th level you are probably better off with 5 levels in Barbarian and only 2 in Rogue (so you would not be an Inquisitive yet). After that I would take 4 levels in Rogue to get the extra feat/ASI before I went Barbarian again.
Some Comments and Recommendations:
I would put your ASI on Strength +2 to give you a 20. If you really want the +1 in intelligence then put the other +1 in Constitution, boosting both AC from unarmored defense and hit points.
You do not really need a fighting style to dual wield effectively, especially in Rage. You also can get advantage on your attacks with Reckless attack, although the Inquisitive feature will be better because it does not give enemies advantage attacking you. Reckless attack and cunning action disengage works well too.
My 2 copper pieces (Though they may not be necessary what with the good advice already presented)
Firstly, the combo of Barb and Rogue works a bit weirdly. The Rage damage bonuses come through when using a Str based attack, and combining it with sneak attack works great. You just need to use a finesse weapon, but you can still use your str modifier for the attacks. So the weapons you use for sneak attack can be: dagger, rapier, shortsword, scimitar and whip. None of these deal particularly good damage, apart from dual wielding. Not ideal really, considering you have rage to use, and possibly any item or racial abilities. The inquisitive's level 3 ability isn't necessary to use, because you'll get advantage from reckless attack, or be able to activate sneak attack if an ally is within 5 ft of your target. It's only really useful when you don't want to be easier to hit in extended fights e.g against a large horde or a boss battle. Since you seem to be going ahead with the str based build, I would recommend dual wielding scimitars/shortswords/rapiers, and using your str mod for the first attack roll. You don't really need to worry about not adding any extra mods to the second attack, since you've got rage and sneak attack damage coming through now.
Secondly, I would recommend taking +2 to str at level 4, instead of +1 str and int. The int bonus doesn't do that much, and it's more important at first to get 20 str than 12 int and 18 str. To balance out the ASI's, I would recommend another level in Barb (so 8), then take the +1 to str and int, OR get the fighting initiate feat allowing for you take the dual wielding fighting style. Sure it slows your Rogue progression, but makes the character both more combat viable, as well as adding some utility (if you take +1 to int and str). If you don't take the fighting initiate feat at level 8, I would recommend it at level 12, at your 4th rogue level.
With Barb 7/rogue 3 your damage would be: 1d8+2+4+1d8+2+2d6+1d8+2+4=34.5 damage a round. Not too bad. But barb 8/rogue 4 with the above feats/ASI's would give you: 1d8+2+5+1d8+2+5+2d6+1d8+2+5 =41.5 average damage. Pretty solid damage, though your first round will take a bit of a hit, as you can't get that bonus action attack in.
Overall, it's your character, so if the roleplay is worth the bit of a damage dip you'll take by not using something like a greataxe and taking a more damaging barb subclass, then go ahead. If not, it'll take a bit of fine tuning to get the combat to match the roleplay. Hope this helped on the combat and optimisation end!
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
My 2 copper pieces (Though they may not be necessary what with the good advice already presented)
Firstly, the combo of Barb and Rogue works a bit weirdly. The Rage damage bonuses come through when using a Str based attack, and combining it with sneak attack works great. You just need to use a finesse weapon, but you can still use your str modifier for the attacks. So the weapons you use for sneak attack can be: dagger, rapier, shortsword, scimitar and whip. None of these deal particularly good damage, apart from dual wielding. Not ideal really, considering you have rage to use, and possibly any item or racial abilities. The inquisitive's level 3 ability isn't necessary to use, because you'll get advantage from reckless attack, or be able to activate sneak attack if an ally is within 5 ft of your target. It's only really useful when you don't want to be easier to hit in extended fights e.g against a large horde or a boss battle. Since you seem to be going ahead with the str based build, I would recommend dual wielding scimitars/shortswords/rapiers, and using your str mod for the first attack roll. You don't really need to worry about not adding any extra mods to the second attack, since you've got rage and sneak attack damage coming through now.
Secondly, I would recommend taking +2 to str at level 4, instead of +1 str and int. The int bonus doesn't do that much, and it's more important at first to get 20 str than 12 int and 18 str. To balance out the ASI's, I would recommend another level in Barb (so 8), then take the +1 to str and int, OR get the fighting initiate feat allowing for you take the dual wielding fighting style. Sure it slows your Rogue progression, but makes the character both more combat viable, as well as adding some utility (if you take +1 to int and str). If you don't take the fighting initiate feat at level 8, I would recommend it at level 12, at your 4th rogue level.
With Barb 7/rogue 3 your damage would be: 1d8+2+4+1d8+2+2d6+1d8+2+4=34.5 damage a round. Not too bad. But barb 8/rogue 4 with the above feats/ASI's would give you: 1d8+2+5+1d8+2+5+2d6+1d8+2+5 =41.5 average damage. Pretty solid damage, though your first round will take a bit of a hit, as you can't get that bonus action attack in.
Overall, it's your character, so if the roleplay is worth the bit of a damage dip you'll take by not using something like a greataxe and taking a more damaging barb subclass, then go ahead. If not, it'll take a bit of fine tuning to get the combat to match the roleplay. Hope this helped on the combat and optimisation end!
I think Inquisitor works well on this build, both because you can only get Rechless attack when raging won't be able to Rage every fight. When you are raging you won't always want to give the enemy advantage.
I think you mean the two weapon fighting fighting style. Dual Wielding is its own feat, not a fighting style.
In any case, I think using two weapon fighting (without the fighting style) is the way to go with this build because you are wielding finesse weapons anyway and get a rage bonus on them, but I do not think the two weapon fighting style is worth it. Rage is going to eat a Bonus action and so is insightful strike and cunning action. You are spending a feat to make better attacks with two weapon fighting, but there will be a lot of times you won't be able to make that offhand attack. I think you are better off just punting the damage. If you want to use a feat for a damage boost I think Gift of the Chromatic Dragon would actually work better even though it is limited use. That would give you a +5 on average with your base extra attac. That is equal to what you get using two weapon fighting with the fighting style but you could get it whether or not you make the bonus action attack.
Assuming you're trying to max out the damage, here's how I would go about that.
You've got 20 strength (ASI's are +2 to str at level 4, +1 to str and int at level 8) then gwm at level 12.
Using a greatsword your damage becomes: 2d6+5+3+10(advantage on attacks roughly equates to +5 to attack rolls, so the -5 from gwp cancels out with reckless attack so is almost always worth it), +2d6+5+3+10 = 50 average damage. You could replace the +1 str and int at level 8 with gwm then take polearm master at level 12 (so 19 str), making your damage per round: 1d10(from using a halberd for polearm master to wait) +4+3+10+1d10+4+3+10+1d4+4+3+10(RAW the attack is still made with the heavy polearm so gwm should apply, though someone may have a crawford or sage advice article on this) = 64.5 average damage. If gwm doesn't count for the ba attack from polearm master, then it still averages to be 54.5.
In terms of damage, 12 levels of barb with these stats will definitely beat the rogue/barb multiclass, but if the roleplay is worth it then go ahead man, take the levels of rogue.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
You can dual wield just fine. Take as your first feat: fighting initiate and take the "Two weapon fighting" as your fighting style. No need to take fighter levels.
With the two-weapon fighting style, you can dual wield two short swords to start, but on the first turn, you can only use one because you can only draw one weapon. So, as your second feat, take Dual Wield. That lets you use two rapiers, and draw both.
At this point, you're a level 8 Barbarian. Your attacks are now 2d8 + 4 + [STR modifier x 2]. With a STR of 16 (which you should have), that's an average damage of 17 points per attack. I build with STR 18 so that's 21 points per attack. At level 8, you're attacking 3 times - one attack, extra attack, and bonus attack from the two-weapon fighting. With advantage from Reckless attack each turn, you're going to hit about 2/3 of the time. That's on the average 42 points of damage per turn. That's not bad damage.
At level 8, you can start adding Rogue levels. I wouldn't go higher than 5 levels but that would add 3d6 to the above damage so by the time you get to that point, you're doing on the average of 52.5 points damage per turn, with a maximum damage output if you hit every time of 87 points per round, not counting crits. That's not shabby at all. It might not be as much as a GWM+PAM build, but you're sacrificing damage for expertise in two skills and, if you need it Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge.
It doesn't matter which Rogue sub-class you take since most of the better abilities use a bonus action and you won't have that to use if you're doing the two-fighting/dual wield attacks. I would stay away from Arcane Trickster though because you can't cast spells while raging, or concentrate on them so that sub-class gives you nothing. Swashbuckler is a good choice for the maneuverability but, really you're not going to be worrying about opportunity attacks because you should be killing what you're attacking. Really, I don't think the sub-class matters at all for this build - it's the sneak attack you're going for and you get that no matter the sub-class.
Oh, and since you're getting another ASI by that point, I would consider the Piercer feat. Since you're using rapiers, they do piercing damage, so on a critical hit, you'd get one more d8 to roll for damage, and if you roll a 1 or 2 on one die when rolling damage, you can re-roll it so that's going to up your damage.
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Hi!
I need help to understand if it is possible to create a worth combination between my Owlin Wild Magic Barbarian and a possible Inquisitive Rogue Multiclass, rebuilding my level 7 (almost 8) character.
Now, before talking about the all the numbers and the technical rules (where I'm not so prepared), I want to point out that this build is much more about roleplay and flavor than efficiency. At the same time, I would like to understand if, by doing this step, I can still keep a character useful in battle.
So, my Owlin is un unconventional barbarian that, after several events in the story, is developing some skill in the perception and investigation fields.
I rolled this entry stats: 17 (St) – 14 (Dex) – 15 (Con) – 11 (Int) – 14 (Wis) – 8 (Cha) (TOT. 79).
Now I'm at level 7 full Barbarian (Wild Magic) with these choices:
Using a great-axe for combact, i deal 1d12 + 4 (Str) + 2 (rage) damage with one swing, with the possibility of two attacks and some helps thanks to the Wild Surge Effect and the Bolstering Magic to attack.
I was wondering, if I rebuild my character with 5 level Barbarian Wild Magic, then 3 level Rogue Inquisitive (to have all the observation skills boosted for flavor) and than carrying on with the barbarian level up, have the character a possibility to remain efficience? I have to surely change my fighting style, becasue to use the sneak attack i need finesse weapons, but can I change in combact between the axe and two daggers for example, or is better to use a two-weapon fighting style?
Thanks for yours advices!!
Adding three levels of rogue can work great. It’s viable potentially very tanky if you lean into dex. The cunning action feature from the rogue is especially useful on barbs.
im playing a barb 2 rogue 3 right now, and intend to go rogue for the next 15 levels. But I want those sneaky sneak dice for my swashbuckling character.
I go sword and shield on my character, but two weapon fighting is probably fine too. The sneak attack dice basically mean you have something better than the two weapon fighting style. And daggers with extra damage effects like acid are way cheaper than other magical weapons.
and a reminder: if you use wreckless attack to get sneak attack to activate, you do need to use strength for the attack. But that is perfect synergy if you are still building strength, and you even get rage damage on top!
Changing weapons in combat is not practical in most instances. You're allowed a single free draw or sheathe per round, another one takes your action. If you haven't had many situations where you've had to fall back to a ranged option, I recommend either rapier and shield or dual shortswords/scimitars, depending on whether you want an extra attack or more AC. Honestly, given that you're a Barbarian, I'd lean towards the two swords for the extra rage damage. Granted, the sneak attack bonus at only 3 levels of rogue might be underwhelming for you. 2d6 averages out to 7 damage- you'll be dropping about 2 or 3 damage per hit from your base weapon damage with the weapon die downgrade, double that for two attacks and you're looking at approx. 4-6 less. Honestly, if you only had your eye on Sneak Attack, this isn't really doing much for you. 3 levels means you're hitting a subclass; got your eye on some particular ribbon features?
First lets talk combat options:
To get sneak and rage you are going to need finesse/ranged weapons, so holster those two handed weapons (unless you are an elf with the Revenant Blade feat wielding a DBS). If you dual wield you won't have the fighting style unless you grab a level of fighter this means that your bonus action attacks won't be hitting with your str bonus. Really annoying.
The ideal dual wield option if you take the feat is a rapier and whip. Just a lovely combo with two threatened ranges (5",10"). If you can't take the feat and don't want to burn a level on fighter it might be better to not dual wield at all.
3 levels of rogue gets you a 2d6 sneak and you will be using reckless attack or insightful fightingto trigger that every turn. Not bad. Insightful fighting has a bit of bonus action tax so think long and hard about dual wielding and how often you will really get a bonus action attack (and you need a bonus action to rage as well). Note here: you can bonus action insightful fighting, and if it fails still recklessly attack.
For Armor you can crank up medium armor which is great. If you don't dual wield you can add in a shield, and you have a nice AC.
So if you go rapier its two attacks for 1d8+str+rage with one attack carrying a sneak 2d6 as well. The weapon is doing 2 points less than the great weapon you could be using so potential -4 dam compared to 2d6 which average 7 which only requires you to hit once. Your real loss is not being able to go GWM with a barbarian, but that isn't the build. You come out ahead with the rapier so enjoy.
So if you half plate and shield with a rapier you are looking at more damage than a non PAM/GWM barbarian. Compared to an 8th level rogue you are doing 2d6 less sneak offset by rage damage and an extra attack (this is close to a wash although the rogue might have a dex of 20). You are trading uncanny dodge and evasion for rage damage reduction and danger sense. For AC you are looking at an AC of 17 (dex 14, half plate) or 19 (Dex 14, half plate shield) vs. AC of 17 (dex20, studded leather) for the rogue.
SKill side:
Starting level 1 barb str/con saving throws 2 skills at 1st, 1 skill at 3rd, and 1 skill and thieves tools when you multi into rogue. Insight/investigation/perception are must haves, and only Perception comes from barbarian so you will need to pull Insight/investigation from Rogue/Racial/background. All reasonable. With scores listed you can expertise two of those, and one of your expertises should be spent on Insight. Your second is a hard choice: I am going to assume you get Survival and Athletics as well from barbarian. Choosing between Survival/ Athletics/ Investigation/ Perception is just rude. Also if you don't have another rogue in the party you should strongly consider expertising thieves tools. If your DM is gating traps with a threeway skill check (perception to spot, investigation to understand how it works, and tools to disarm) then you have a problem. In particular your investigation is not going to be very good. It would be really good to have an artificer who will get expertise in tools in the party.
Other options:
All in all its not a bad build for an angry Sherlock Holmes. In particular I like how you might be able to use insightful fighting to avoid recklessly attacking to grab the sneak damage. After Tasha's barbarians get a decent number of skills, but most of them aren't useful except athletics. This build would produce an interesting skill build while maintaining decent damage (for a rogue or non GWM/PAM barbarian).
Ok thanks, so you think this kind of multiclass can work if i use two weapons attacking with str?
I don't know what are this ribbon features, so if you can explain it to me that would be great!
My idea is not only to take take the Sneak Attack. Rather, this is the feature I want the less because I am more interesse in the skill expertise And the features of the inquisitive to have a better roleplay with an investigation/perceptive charachter. However, Sneak Attack is extremely important because is the only feature that can help me to mantain a certain amount of output damage, so my question Was to understand if there is a method to have a certain combat to remain efficient almost like a full level barbarian.
And as you have said, there is always a loss of some points of damage
Elfdope, thanks for both the comments. I would like to focus on the final part of ther second message, because you have highlighted AN important thing that I want to create: a mixer character that, after some story events, is building some skill expertise but he wants to mantain its original fury! So, obviously, this is difficult to achieve due to severals things.
First of all, as you said this kind of build in combat wolud be very addicted to the bonus action, so i have to spend the fist 2 rounds at least without using both the weapons to attack. Then, another important thing is that my chatacter maybe won't use some sort of weapons for flavor reasons, so i was thinking, if i want to go two-weapons style, i would like to take maybe two short-swords or one short sword and a dagger. I know this is bad, but in my head this have a much more impact in terms of roleplaying than use two rapiers.
At this point i think that, if i want to use this build, even if i go with all the best options I can, I will not be able to be compared to a full barbarian style. So the point is, how much points of damage am I losing doing this?
The other important aspect that you have talked about is the skill expert feats. Exactly as you said, i can respec my 4th level changing the ASI with the feat and perform a better perceptive player without that multiclass.
So non i dont know how to carry on... it is vero difficult
This can be viable although at 7th level you are probably better off with 5 levels in Barbarian and only 2 in Rogue (so you would not be an Inquisitive yet). After that I would take 4 levels in Rogue to get the extra feat/ASI before I went Barbarian again.
Some Comments and Recommendations:
I would put your ASI on Strength +2 to give you a 20. If you really want the +1 in intelligence then put the other +1 in Constitution, boosting both AC from unarmored defense and hit points.
You do not really need a fighting style to dual wield effectively, especially in Rage. You also can get advantage on your attacks with Reckless attack, although the Inquisitive feature will be better because it does not give enemies advantage attacking you. Reckless attack and cunning action disengage works well too.
My 2 copper pieces (Though they may not be necessary what with the good advice already presented)
Firstly, the combo of Barb and Rogue works a bit weirdly. The Rage damage bonuses come through when using a Str based attack, and combining it with sneak attack works great. You just need to use a finesse weapon, but you can still use your str modifier for the attacks. So the weapons you use for sneak attack can be: dagger, rapier, shortsword, scimitar and whip. None of these deal particularly good damage, apart from dual wielding. Not ideal really, considering you have rage to use, and possibly any item or racial abilities. The inquisitive's level 3 ability isn't necessary to use, because you'll get advantage from reckless attack, or be able to activate sneak attack if an ally is within 5 ft of your target. It's only really useful when you don't want to be easier to hit in extended fights e.g against a large horde or a boss battle. Since you seem to be going ahead with the str based build, I would recommend dual wielding scimitars/shortswords/rapiers, and using your str mod for the first attack roll. You don't really need to worry about not adding any extra mods to the second attack, since you've got rage and sneak attack damage coming through now.
Secondly, I would recommend taking +2 to str at level 4, instead of +1 str and int. The int bonus doesn't do that much, and it's more important at first to get 20 str than 12 int and 18 str. To balance out the ASI's, I would recommend another level in Barb (so 8), then take the +1 to str and int, OR get the fighting initiate feat allowing for you take the dual wielding fighting style. Sure it slows your Rogue progression, but makes the character both more combat viable, as well as adding some utility (if you take +1 to int and str). If you don't take the fighting initiate feat at level 8, I would recommend it at level 12, at your 4th rogue level.
With Barb 7/rogue 3 your damage would be: 1d8+2+4+1d8+2+2d6+1d8+2+4=34.5 damage a round. Not too bad. But barb 8/rogue 4 with the above feats/ASI's would give you: 1d8+2+5+1d8+2+5+2d6+1d8+2+5 =41.5 average damage. Pretty solid damage, though your first round will take a bit of a hit, as you can't get that bonus action attack in.
Overall, it's your character, so if the roleplay is worth the bit of a damage dip you'll take by not using something like a greataxe and taking a more damaging barb subclass, then go ahead. If not, it'll take a bit of fine tuning to get the combat to match the roleplay. Hope this helped on the combat and optimisation end!
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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I think you mean the two weapon fighting fighting style. Dual Wielding is its own feat, not a fighting style.
In any case, I think using two weapon fighting (without the fighting style) is the way to go with this build because you are wielding finesse weapons anyway and get a rage bonus on them, but I do not think the two weapon fighting style is worth it. Rage is going to eat a Bonus action and so is insightful strike and cunning action. You are spending a feat to make better attacks with two weapon fighting, but there will be a lot of times you won't be able to make that offhand attack. I think you are better off just punting the damage. If you want to use a feat for a damage boost I think Gift of the Chromatic Dragon would actually work better even though it is limited use. That would give you a +5 on average with your base extra attac. That is equal to what you get using two weapon fighting with the fighting style but you could get it whether or not you make the bonus action attack.
Reckless Attack does not require Rage to be up, you just need to declare it before you make your first attack roll.
Thanks for all the comment.
If I want to compare this damage you evaluated with a full barbarian at 12 with Great Weapon Master, how can i Do?
Assuming you're trying to max out the damage, here's how I would go about that.
You've got 20 strength (ASI's are +2 to str at level 4, +1 to str and int at level 8) then gwm at level 12.
Using a greatsword your damage becomes: 2d6+5+3+10(advantage on attacks roughly equates to +5 to attack rolls, so the -5 from gwp cancels out with reckless attack so is almost always worth it), +2d6+5+3+10 = 50 average damage. You could replace the +1 str and int at level 8 with gwm then take polearm master at level 12 (so 19 str), making your damage per round: 1d10(from using a halberd for polearm master to wait) +4+3+10+1d10+4+3+10+1d4+4+3+10(RAW the attack is still made with the heavy polearm so gwm should apply, though someone may have a crawford or sage advice article on this) = 64.5 average damage. If gwm doesn't count for the ba attack from polearm master, then it still averages to be 54.5.
In terms of damage, 12 levels of barb with these stats will definitely beat the rogue/barb multiclass, but if the roleplay is worth it then go ahead man, take the levels of rogue.
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Yeah, just dipping rogue won’t compete with PAM and GWM for damage.
You get some useful abilities out of it, but nothing damage wise that compares
Just adding $.02 to this:
You can dual wield just fine. Take as your first feat: fighting initiate and take the "Two weapon fighting" as your fighting style. No need to take fighter levels.
With the two-weapon fighting style, you can dual wield two short swords to start, but on the first turn, you can only use one because you can only draw one weapon. So, as your second feat, take Dual Wield. That lets you use two rapiers, and draw both.
At this point, you're a level 8 Barbarian. Your attacks are now 2d8 + 4 + [STR modifier x 2]. With a STR of 16 (which you should have), that's an average damage of 17 points per attack. I build with STR 18 so that's 21 points per attack. At level 8, you're attacking 3 times - one attack, extra attack, and bonus attack from the two-weapon fighting. With advantage from Reckless attack each turn, you're going to hit about 2/3 of the time. That's on the average 42 points of damage per turn. That's not bad damage.
At level 8, you can start adding Rogue levels. I wouldn't go higher than 5 levels but that would add 3d6 to the above damage so by the time you get to that point, you're doing on the average of 52.5 points damage per turn, with a maximum damage output if you hit every time of 87 points per round, not counting crits. That's not shabby at all. It might not be as much as a GWM+PAM build, but you're sacrificing damage for expertise in two skills and, if you need it Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge.
It doesn't matter which Rogue sub-class you take since most of the better abilities use a bonus action and you won't have that to use if you're doing the two-fighting/dual wield attacks. I would stay away from Arcane Trickster though because you can't cast spells while raging, or concentrate on them so that sub-class gives you nothing. Swashbuckler is a good choice for the maneuverability but, really you're not going to be worrying about opportunity attacks because you should be killing what you're attacking. Really, I don't think the sub-class matters at all for this build - it's the sneak attack you're going for and you get that no matter the sub-class.
Oh, and since you're getting another ASI by that point, I would consider the Piercer feat. Since you're using rapiers, they do piercing damage, so on a critical hit, you'd get one more d8 to roll for damage, and if you roll a 1 or 2 on one die when rolling damage, you can re-roll it so that's going to up your damage.