Look for what other folks suggest or have done with their barbarians.
I have a dragonborn path of the zealot baribarian. The character has depth personality wise, feels like a core part of the group and has a great story arc going on. The RP is often simply incredible. The class mechanics I am finding quite 2 dimensional to play now we are level 5. I played a new char in another game (twilight cleric) which just blew me away with the sheer amount of different options on a turn.
There is pretty much zero utility, unless you count danger sense and every combat is starting to feel the same. I took polearm master which did give a few more options on a turn but not huge amounts (probably should have taken str inc). We started IWD and the character is from there so the DM has given me great reams of info I would know and advantage on some skills up there which has really made him feel a bit more useful. GM is great and open to re-jigging to keep it interesting.
How can I spice this up without taking silly risks (which at present sounds tempting). It's a low magic campaign, so items aren't the solution here as we don't see them in the world. Did ponder a level of cleric just to have something different even though his stats are poor for that. Others have suggested paladin but his cha is rock bottom.
I'd say you could try to use grapples and shoves, but you need a free hand to grapple and most of the qualifying weapons for PAM are two-handed. You could use a spear/quarterstaff though. If you do, you can shove the creature down (one attack), grapple them so they stay down (second attack) and hit them with a bonus action gained from PAM. On your next turn, unless the grapple has been broken, you get two attacks + bonus action attack, all with advantage. Sure, you used two turns to get the advantage you can get with Reckless Attack, but the enemy will now have a disadvantage on attacks against you for being prone, rather than advantage. Plus, being an enraged barbarian catching your opponent, throwing them on the ground, holding them down on it and attacking them... it's more interesting than simply attacking.
Another option is switching over to a throwing weapons build. Buy as many spears as you can get and walk into battle with a mule carrying them for you. Once the enemies get close enough, switch to hand-combat. Since you can throw the weapons while just holding your spear in the other hand, once they come close you'll still get the PAM reaction.
You can try using the Ready action for more interesting techniques. It won't be as efficient, not at all, but can be fun if you're creative enough and your DM allows what you suggest.
There are many ways, these are just the first options that come to me.
I ask because I always though a level or three of Rogue is good with a Barbarian, but you then limit yourself to "light/Finesse" weapons to utilize the Sneak attack. You can still use strength though. The Advantage from Barbarian reckless attack allows for Sneak attacks every round! AAAND it stacks with Divine Fury!!!!
Consider A Reckless attack with a shortsword or Scimitar (1d6+3[scimitar/Str] + 1d6+3[divine fury] + 1d6 [sneak attack]) Damage range is 9-27hp on main attack + 4-9hp 2nd attack
**edit** Actualy the visual in my mind of a dual wielding Daggers for this is pretty cool too (only lose the top2 hp damage)**
Level three brings on Scout which is quite nice.
With Rogue one you get Sneak attack(1d6), Expertise (athletics), and Thieves cant
That is a lot of food for thought and yes the ranged options is a great plan. I do have javelins so it make sense to use those more to shake things up a bit. Polearm master looked good on paper and seems to be very highly rated but it just hasnt came into play as often as I expected. Ability to use reaction attack when someone moves within 10ft instead of moving out is fantastic. Perhaps using range a bit more might bring them to me and let me utilise this more?
The rogue idea also really nice, I can see the synergy there with the abilities, very interesting indeed. Also having some utility would really make it feel more useful. Very interesting Im going to have a play and make up a few characters to ponder this.
Also remember that while raging you get advantage on all athletics checks. This can add a number of movement options if your battlefield isn't a featureless plain.
It seems like multiclassing, especially since you are just about to get your lvl 6 subclass ability AND your 4th rage, would be rather costly. You might instead try to add diversity through feats.
Since this is a low magic campaign, perhaps talk to your DM about using your downtime to acquire some interesting skills. There are lots of RAW and homebrew options for skill training that would add both utility and combat effectiveness (e.g. languages, sleight of hand, land vehicles, etc.).
For my barby, I did a custom background that gave me cooking and land vehicles. I don't yet have a mount (waiting on my chance to get a wolf of some sort, preferably a winter wolf), but my barby takes joy in making jerky of any of our monster/animal opponents. We will even occasionally role on Hamunds Harvesting Handbook for added flavor.
Keep in mind, the majority of the game is played outside of combat so perhaps find a way to get more variety from those experiences.
Race: Shifter Wildhunt (temp hit points + creatures don't get advantage against you when you shift)
Subclass: Beast
Level 4: Shield Master
Level 8: Skill Master with Expertise in Athletics
Once you get your extra attack, choose between 3 claw attacks + bonus action shove, or
2 tail attacks + bonus action shove + reaction to add 1d8 to your AC when someone hits you, or
Barbarian make way better shield masters than fighters because:
If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield. (Advantage on Athletics when in rage)
If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your shield between yourself and the source of the effect. (Advantage on Dex saves vs effects you can see)
I'd say you could try to use grapples and shoves, but you need a free hand to grapple and most of the qualifying weapons for PAM are two-handed. You could use a spear/quarterstaff though. If you do, you can shove the creature down (one attack), grapple them so they stay down (second attack) and hit them with a bonus action gained from PAM.
I don't think this works on the first turn.
When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon.
You definitely need to have made an attack with the polearm during your attack action to get the bonus action attack. Technically, it says "attack with only", so I think that by RAW grappling or shoving would also stop it, although as DM I would probably allow it as long as you had made an attack with your polearm and only grappled/shoved otherwise.
Generally, I think this is often the case: As much as you can RP for fun outside combat, a Barb or other simple martial character is often going to get a little "samey" in combat. You run in and hit things with your weapon until they die. You can choose whether to Rage, whether to attack recklessly, and which weapon(s) to use, but that's about it. A caster will have several options for which spell to cast, complex classes like Rogue/Monk (and even certain Fighter subclasses etc) have different abilities to bring variety, but a Barb will "apply axe to face" 9 times out of 10.
You can, of course, multiclass to pick up extra abilities. There are a lot of options which can be fun, and many guides which can help in choosing if this is the path you go down.
As others have mentioned, Grappling/Shoving can be a fun alternative. Advantage on athletics checks while raging makes these more effective. For fun of RP, you could use grapple to grab an enemy, then use your breath weapon right in their face. You could shove people off cliffs, grapple and hold them in place for the rest of your party to pepper them with arrows, etc. Even grab and jump over a cliff with them: A DM may even allow you to attempt to put them between yourself and the ground when you do this, allowing you to take only half the falling damage, the other half going to the enemy along with their own.
Basically, you end up having to get really imaginative to bring variety to the fight with a straight-up Barb. Most of the time you will mechanically be doing the same thing, but you can try to find ways to spice it up in RP. You can also use a few other mechanics where the situation calls for it. However, I don't think we will ever get the same variety of mechanics available to many other classes (particularly casters).
I'd say you could try to use grapples and shoves, but you need a free hand to grapple and most of the qualifying weapons for PAM are two-handed. You could use a spear/quarterstaff though. If you do, you can shove the creature down (one attack), grapple them so they stay down (second attack) and hit them with a bonus action gained from PAM.
I don't think this works on the first turn.
When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon.
You definitely need to have made an attack with the polearm during your attack action to get the bonus action attack. Technically, it says "attack with only", so I think that by RAW grappling or shoving would also stop it, although as DM I would probably allow it as long as you had made an attack with your polearm and only grappled/shoved otherwise.
Correct. You could possibly get around this with the tavern brawler feat if you'd consider the shove as an unarmed attack. However that falls apart at the wording of shove "special melee attack". If your DM rules a push as an unarmed attack you'd get Push - Attack - Grapple in that order.
In that case, swinging around goblins as improvised weapons can be a nice flavor-y fun thing to do. It would also give you more options like uprooting a tree stump to use as a club or move to a pile of skulls to throw at the big nasty. It'd give you flavor combat options, but not any real utility like casting would.
Look for what other folks suggest or have done with their barbarians.
I have a dragonborn path of the zealot baribarian. The character has depth personality wise, feels like a core part of the group and has a great story arc going on. The RP is often simply incredible. The class mechanics I am finding quite 2 dimensional to play now we are level 5. I played a new char in another game (twilight cleric) which just blew me away with the sheer amount of different options on a turn.
There is pretty much zero utility, unless you count danger sense and every combat is starting to feel the same. I took polearm master which did give a few more options on a turn but not huge amounts (probably should have taken str inc). We started IWD and the character is from there so the DM has given me great reams of info I would know and advantage on some skills up there which has really made him feel a bit more useful. GM is great and open to re-jigging to keep it interesting.
How can I spice this up without taking silly risks (which at present sounds tempting). It's a low magic campaign, so items aren't the solution here as we don't see them in the world. Did ponder a level of cleric just to have something different even though his stats are poor for that. Others have suggested paladin but his cha is rock bottom.
Honestly, your post is why I have mostly abandoned martial characters. I've played mostly fighters, and dual wield rangers since the 80s and I just can't any more. the final straw for me was an SKT campaign that my group ran though several years back. We played on roll 20 due to distance, and my combat turns turned into macro spams of mainhand-mainhand-offhand. My other option was to sit back with my bow and spam bowshot-bowshot. I didn't have to think about my turn beyond where I wanted to stand and what I wanted to attack.
Since then I've played several casters, and I by FAR prefer thinking about which spells I wish to use. There's always a choice to make, even with my warlocks with often devolve to EB->EB spam. Do I cast a spell? Do I have a reason to use a different cantrip? I like martial characters. I'm a sword guy, I love edged weapons. Play a sword guy in D&D though? No thanks, I've done that enough. Now I try to carry a sword as a backup weapon "just in case", but I never want it to be my primary source of damage again. Maybe a Bladesinger would scratch my itch lol
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I ask because I always though a level or three of Rogue is good with a Barbarian, but you then limit yourself to "light/Finesse" weapons to utilize the Sneak attack. You can still use strength though. The Advantage from Barbarian reckless attack allows for Sneak attacks every round! AAAND it stacks with Divine Fury!!!!
Consider A Reckless attack with a shortsword or Scimitar (1d6+3[scimitar/Str] + 1d6+3[divine fury] + 1d6 [sneak attack]) Damage range is 9-27hp on main attack + 4-9hp 2nd attack
**edit** Actualy the visual in my mind of a dual wielding Daggers for this is pretty cool too (only lose the top2 hp damage)**
Level three brings on Scout which is quite nice.
With Rogue one you get Sneak attack(1d6), Expertise (athletics), and Thieves cant
If you start the dual wield thing then a 3rd extra attack (Bonus action) comes into play.
You add thieves tools as well to the mix thus some out of combat uses arise.
My party currently has a barbarian rogue MC that uses a rapier and she wrecks things. I would absolutely consider playing a 1h barbarian using a rapier, and play him as though he were a duellist/musketeer type.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
How can I spice this up without taking silly risks (which at present sounds tempting). It's a low magic campaign, so items aren't the solution here as we don't see them in the world. Did ponder a level of cleric just to have something different even though his stats are poor for that. Others have suggested paladin but his cha is rock bottom.
I say go ahead and take Silly Risks. You're a Zealot! One of the most important features of the subclass is the ability to be revived from death without requiring costly material components.
Not sure this will help, but I'm about to play a barbarian as a circus strongman. His "totem" is his muscle. He'll mostly rage for the advantage on strength checks when performing, but it'll be more of a focused flex than anger. I don't see him being hugely useful in combat, no more than a standard barbarian, but I think he'll be fun.
Thanks everyone this has been really great and it’s lots of good for thought. In the interim I’m going to take all this onboard and give it some thought. I have several options and the gm is open to changing things even so far as class. I may stay Barb at 6th and then mc after that
The DM has potentially approved a switch (via a story arc) to Rune Knight fighter due to his backstory link to giants, it’s a very Barb feeling class. I’m sure fighter will have the same limited feel but the runes are fun flavour and change things up. Not making a quick decision it will present itself in story. When the potential switch point presents itself I will see how i feel and if I want to switch. In the meantime going to play up his chaotic nature, make more use of athletics and get a little reckless to make it fun. My group seem to like him so taking risks will definitely up the stakes and thus the excitement.
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Look for what other folks suggest or have done with their barbarians.
I have a dragonborn path of the zealot baribarian. The character has depth personality wise, feels like a core part of the group and has a great story arc going on. The RP is often simply incredible. The class mechanics I am finding quite 2 dimensional to play now we are level 5. I played a new char in another game (twilight cleric) which just blew me away with the sheer amount of different options on a turn.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/MattBWilko/characters/30943352
There is pretty much zero utility, unless you count danger sense and every combat is starting to feel the same. I took polearm master which did give a few more options on a turn but not huge amounts (probably should have taken str inc). We started IWD and the character is from there so the DM has given me great reams of info I would know and advantage on some skills up there which has really made him feel a bit more useful. GM is great and open to re-jigging to keep it interesting.
How can I spice this up without taking silly risks (which at present sounds tempting). It's a low magic campaign, so items aren't the solution here as we don't see them in the world. Did ponder a level of cleric just to have something different even though his stats are poor for that. Others have suggested paladin but his cha is rock bottom.
I'd say you could try to use grapples and shoves, but you need a free hand to grapple and most of the qualifying weapons for PAM are two-handed. You could use a spear/quarterstaff though. If you do, you can shove the creature down (one attack), grapple them so they stay down (second attack) and hit them with a bonus action gained from PAM. On your next turn, unless the grapple has been broken, you get two attacks + bonus action attack, all with advantage. Sure, you used two turns to get the advantage you can get with Reckless Attack, but the enemy will now have a disadvantage on attacks against you for being prone, rather than advantage. Plus, being an enraged barbarian catching your opponent, throwing them on the ground, holding them down on it and attacking them... it's more interesting than simply attacking.
Another option is switching over to a throwing weapons build. Buy as many spears as you can get and walk into battle with a mule carrying them for you. Once the enemies get close enough, switch to hand-combat. Since you can throw the weapons while just holding your spear in the other hand, once they come close you'll still get the PAM reaction.
You can try using the Ready action for more interesting techniques. It won't be as efficient, not at all, but can be fun if you're creative enough and your DM allows what you suggest.
There are many ways, these are just the first options that come to me.
Varielky
Are you dissapointed with Polearm master?
I ask because I always though a level or three of Rogue is good with a Barbarian, but you then limit yourself to "light/Finesse" weapons to utilize the Sneak attack. You can still use strength though. The Advantage from Barbarian reckless attack allows for Sneak attacks every round! AAAND it stacks with Divine Fury!!!!
Consider A Reckless attack with a shortsword or Scimitar (1d6+3[scimitar/Str] + 1d6+3[divine fury] + 1d6 [sneak attack]) Damage range is 9-27hp on main attack + 4-9hp 2nd attack
**edit** Actualy the visual in my mind of a dual wielding Daggers for this is pretty cool too (only lose the top2 hp damage)**
Level three brings on Scout which is quite nice.
That is a lot of food for thought and yes the ranged options is a great plan. I do have javelins so it make sense to use those more to shake things up a bit. Polearm master looked good on paper and seems to be very highly rated but it just hasnt came into play as often as I expected. Ability to use reaction attack when someone moves within 10ft instead of moving out is fantastic. Perhaps using range a bit more might bring them to me and let me utilise this more?
The rogue idea also really nice, I can see the synergy there with the abilities, very interesting indeed. Also having some utility would really make it feel more useful. Very interesting Im going to have a play and make up a few characters to ponder this.
Thanks, I really appreciate these great answers.
Also remember that while raging you get advantage on all athletics checks. This can add a number of movement options if your battlefield isn't a featureless plain.
another option for a barbarian is the "Martial Adept" feat. This gives you two Battlemaster maneuvers, with 1D6 superiority die.
for use with Polearm master:
It seems like multiclassing, especially since you are just about to get your lvl 6 subclass ability AND your 4th rage, would be rather costly. You might instead try to add diversity through feats.
Since this is a low magic campaign, perhaps talk to your DM about using your downtime to acquire some interesting skills. There are lots of RAW and homebrew options for skill training that would add both utility and combat effectiveness (e.g. languages, sleight of hand, land vehicles, etc.).
For my barby, I did a custom background that gave me cooking and land vehicles. I don't yet have a mount (waiting on my chance to get a wolf of some sort, preferably a winter wolf), but my barby takes joy in making jerky of any of our monster/animal opponents. We will even occasionally role on Hamunds Harvesting Handbook for added flavor.
Keep in mind, the majority of the game is played outside of combat so perhaps find a way to get more variety from those experiences.
Race: Shifter Wildhunt (temp hit points + creatures don't get advantage against you when you shift)
Subclass: Beast
Level 4: Shield Master
Level 8: Skill Master with Expertise in Athletics
Once you get your extra attack, choose between 3 claw attacks + bonus action shove, or
2 tail attacks + bonus action shove + reaction to add 1d8 to your AC when someone hits you, or
Barbarian make way better shield masters than fighters because:
I don't think this works on the first turn.
You definitely need to have made an attack with the polearm during your attack action to get the bonus action attack. Technically, it says "attack with only", so I think that by RAW grappling or shoving would also stop it, although as DM I would probably allow it as long as you had made an attack with your polearm and only grappled/shoved otherwise.
Generally, I think this is often the case: As much as you can RP for fun outside combat, a Barb or other simple martial character is often going to get a little "samey" in combat. You run in and hit things with your weapon until they die. You can choose whether to Rage, whether to attack recklessly, and which weapon(s) to use, but that's about it. A caster will have several options for which spell to cast, complex classes like Rogue/Monk (and even certain Fighter subclasses etc) have different abilities to bring variety, but a Barb will "apply axe to face" 9 times out of 10.
You can, of course, multiclass to pick up extra abilities. There are a lot of options which can be fun, and many guides which can help in choosing if this is the path you go down.
As others have mentioned, Grappling/Shoving can be a fun alternative. Advantage on athletics checks while raging makes these more effective. For fun of RP, you could use grapple to grab an enemy, then use your breath weapon right in their face. You could shove people off cliffs, grapple and hold them in place for the rest of your party to pepper them with arrows, etc. Even grab and jump over a cliff with them: A DM may even allow you to attempt to put them between yourself and the ground when you do this, allowing you to take only half the falling damage, the other half going to the enemy along with their own.
Basically, you end up having to get really imaginative to bring variety to the fight with a straight-up Barb. Most of the time you will mechanically be doing the same thing, but you can try to find ways to spice it up in RP. You can also use a few other mechanics where the situation calls for it. However, I don't think we will ever get the same variety of mechanics available to many other classes (particularly casters).
Correct. You could possibly get around this with the tavern brawler feat if you'd consider the shove as an unarmed attack. However that falls apart at the wording of shove "special melee attack". If your DM rules a push as an unarmed attack you'd get Push - Attack - Grapple in that order.
In that case, swinging around goblins as improvised weapons can be a nice flavor-y fun thing to do. It would also give you more options like uprooting a tree stump to use as a club or move to a pile of skulls to throw at the big nasty. It'd give you flavor combat options, but not any real utility like casting would.
Honestly, your post is why I have mostly abandoned martial characters. I've played mostly fighters, and dual wield rangers since the 80s and I just can't any more. the final straw for me was an SKT campaign that my group ran though several years back. We played on roll 20 due to distance, and my combat turns turned into macro spams of mainhand-mainhand-offhand. My other option was to sit back with my bow and spam bowshot-bowshot. I didn't have to think about my turn beyond where I wanted to stand and what I wanted to attack.
Since then I've played several casters, and I by FAR prefer thinking about which spells I wish to use. There's always a choice to make, even with my warlocks with often devolve to EB->EB spam. Do I cast a spell? Do I have a reason to use a different cantrip? I like martial characters. I'm a sword guy, I love edged weapons. Play a sword guy in D&D though? No thanks, I've done that enough. Now I try to carry a sword as a backup weapon "just in case", but I never want it to be my primary source of damage again. Maybe a Bladesinger would scratch my itch lol
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
My party currently has a barbarian rogue MC that uses a rapier and she wrecks things. I would absolutely consider playing a 1h barbarian using a rapier, and play him as though he were a duellist/musketeer type.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I say go ahead and take Silly Risks. You're a Zealot! One of the most important features of the subclass is the ability to be revived from death without requiring costly material components.
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Not sure this will help, but I'm about to play a barbarian as a circus strongman. His "totem" is his muscle. He'll mostly rage for the advantage on strength checks when performing, but it'll be more of a focused flex than anger. I don't see him being hugely useful in combat, no more than a standard barbarian, but I think he'll be fun.
Thanks everyone this has been really great and it’s lots of good for thought. In the interim I’m going to take all this onboard and give it some thought. I have several options and the gm is open to changing things even so far as class. I may stay Barb at 6th and then mc after that
The DM has potentially approved a switch (via a story arc) to Rune Knight fighter due to his backstory link to giants, it’s a very Barb feeling class. I’m sure fighter will have the same limited feel but the runes are fun flavour and change things up. Not making a quick decision it will present itself in story. When the potential switch point presents itself I will see how i feel and if I want to switch. In the meantime going to play up his chaotic nature, make more use of athletics and get a little reckless to make it fun. My group seem to like him so taking risks will definitely up the stakes and thus the excitement.