never played a bard before and plan to play him more as a story teller/gold hearted conman than a musician. So level 4 asi to get to 20 charisma or a feat? What are good spell recommendations? My dm allows all official book content and has allowed tashas varient options.
Storyteller isn't that unusual for a bard, but I'm intrigued by the decision to go the route of a con artist. It actually does make a lot of sense for a bard, given its a job that requires high charisma and performative skills. If you're feeling particularly old-fashioned you could try going the route of a snake oil salesman- a con artist whose entire job hinges on being able to put up a charismatic personality that easily wins over crowds.
Spells can be a little bit tricky, but if you're going for a con artist you'd probably want to focus on finding spells that could be useful to performing effective cons. Illusion spells would be a good way to go. Now I don't have a lot of experience with level 4 spells (my bard is currently level 3) but looking at the list I can see two that might be good for the direction you're going.
Greater Invisibility: This would be a great one to use if someone starts to catch on to one of your cons, and you need to make a run for it. Hiding in alleyways and blending into crowds can be effective, but being able to turn completely invisible would be a great way to put some distance between you and your pursuers. Plus you could also use it to help any accomplices (i.e. other party members). It might also have the benefit of allowing you to get into places you might not normally and surprise a potential target.
Hallucinatory Terrain: Great for escaping if one of your cons goes wrong or someone manages to expose you. Especially if a bunch of people catch on and decide to take the law into their own hands. You can escape your pursuers by throwing unfamiliar terrain at them, completely disorienting them and buying yourself time to make your escape.
My Bard is a level 8 Lore Bard at this point. He is very interested in gathering Lore and telling stories, although he composes music and makes them ballads.
Level 4 he went with +2 Cha ASI.
His spell list includes:
Cantrips - VM, Prestidigitation, Mending
1st Spells - Bane, Charm Person, Dissonant Whispers, Healing Word
We have a Rogue in our party with low wisdom (both the character and the player) so several of my spells are available to help keep him alive, which unfortunately has the effect of enabling his chicanery. The italicized spells came from Magic Secrets which a Lore Bard receives at level 6. Good luck and enjoy.
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Take the ASI to get up to 20 if you can do it at level 4. When you hit level 5, you'll have five bardic inspiration die and get them back on a short rest.
never played a bard before and plan to play him more as a story teller/gold hearted conman than a musician. So level 4 asi to get to 20 charisma or a feat? What are good spell recommendations? My dm allows all official book content and has allowed tashas varient options.
I would take Charisma to 20, especially for the eloquence bard. It's leaning into your ability to make enemies fail their saving throws via Unsettling Words. I would also take expertise in both Persuasion and Deception, to compliment Silver Tongue. Your Charasma checks for those are going to be insane. Roll a Nat 1 and announce, "Eighteen!"
Level 1 spells, Dissonant Whispers, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Healing Word are all good. Level 2 Blindness/Deafness, Heat Metal, Silence (for spellcasters), Hold Person are good.
Personal opinion, if I am walking into a game with 18 in your casting stat, I use feats to buff the stat and get other things. Is it optimal? Hard to say. Math-wise probably not, because as a few others have said, you may need that spell save DC to be as high as possible to get creatures and things to fail the saves on your abilities and spells. And that will not be maxed out (excluding item buffs) until level 8 or maybe even 12 if you are willing to do that. However, value wise, I think taking a feat at level 4 is better. I get a slight stat bump and I get other things and some of those things are free spells that use my spellcasting stat as for their saves.
I would consider the Fey and Shadow Touched feats. They can be used to bump you Charisma. It won't be maxed out but you will gain 2 spells per feat. Misty Step and a Level 1 spell from the divination or enchantment schools for the Fey touched feat. For Shadow Touched, you can bump your charisma and have access to Invisibility and a level 1 spell from the illusion or necromancy schools. The kicker is, you have one free cast of these per long rest, and if you want you can use slots to cast these spells. You could also look into the elven specific feats as well. They are ok, but I don't think they would necessarily suit your character.
If you wanted to get Actor or Inspiring Leader I would ask your GM to consider re-working. Cody from Taking 20 has a pretty good re-work of the Actor feat where you basically create a distraction of some kind. And the Inspiring Leader fits someone who has an uncanny way with words. But I feel like it is lacking a little bit, maybe see if you can get some of the things off of the Heroism or Hero's Feast spells. Like immune to frighten or advantage on saves while you have the temporary hit points. Maybe something like that. Both bump Charisma as well.
Telekinetic and Telepathic are interesting choices as well, but they depend on the character. So you can bump Charisma with both. Telekinetic you get magic hand for free. The kicker here is if you are using AoE spells. You can push or pull creatures into your AoE spells provided they are still active, things like Spirit Shroud or Stinking Could, and the target is close to the perimeter of them. Telepathic may be more up your character's alley though. You can telepathically communicate with creatures within 60ft of you and you get detect thoughts for free once per long rest and if you have lvl 2 slots you can cast it that way as well. Now, I don't know about you, but a conman would probably like to know their target's thoughts mid con to get the desired outcome.
As for spells, I would say Bane and Dissonant Whispers for sure. Distort Value would be in line with the con-man part of the character but it is somewhat niche and maybe not allowed cause it is out of the Acquisitions Incorporated book. Silence, Enthrall, and Pyrotechnics also fit in that con-man/performer aspect as well. Obvious damage spells like Thunderwave, Shatter, and Heat Metal are there as well. I go back and forth on Hold Person. Most humanoids typically don't have the Strength save to beat Max's Earthen Grasp and it does damage, but it does require earth to work. Most monsters don't have the wisdom to beat Hold Person. Up to you on that one. I think you will need magical secrets to get the Earthen Grasp spell though. Personally, I think the Illusion and Enchantment school are brutal. They may require some creativity in use on your part, but can be quite fun. Just don't go all the way into those schools, you may find that you have nothing to do in combat encounters. Outside of that bards are exceptionally versatile and can be built a number of ways so do what works for you mate.
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Pallid elf
Eloquence bard
never played a bard before and plan to play him more as a story teller/gold hearted conman than a musician. So level 4 asi to get to 20 charisma or a feat? What are good spell recommendations? My dm allows all official book content and has allowed tashas varient options.
Storyteller isn't that unusual for a bard, but I'm intrigued by the decision to go the route of a con artist. It actually does make a lot of sense for a bard, given its a job that requires high charisma and performative skills. If you're feeling particularly old-fashioned you could try going the route of a snake oil salesman- a con artist whose entire job hinges on being able to put up a charismatic personality that easily wins over crowds.
Spells can be a little bit tricky, but if you're going for a con artist you'd probably want to focus on finding spells that could be useful to performing effective cons. Illusion spells would be a good way to go. Now I don't have a lot of experience with level 4 spells (my bard is currently level 3) but looking at the list I can see two that might be good for the direction you're going.
I hope this helps.
My Bard is a level 8 Lore Bard at this point. He is very interested in gathering Lore and telling stories, although he composes music and makes them ballads.
Level 4 he went with +2 Cha ASI.
His spell list includes:
Cantrips - VM, Prestidigitation, Mending
1st Spells - Bane, Charm Person, Dissonant Whispers, Healing Word
2nd Spells - Silence, Invisibility, Heat Metal
3rd Spells - Dispel Magic, Sending, Counterspell, Thunder Step
4th Spells - Polymorph, Dimension Door
We have a Rogue in our party with low wisdom (both the character and the player) so several of my spells are available to help keep him alive, which unfortunately has the effect of enabling his chicanery. The italicized spells came from Magic Secrets which a Lore Bard receives at level 6. Good luck and enjoy.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Take the ASI to get up to 20 if you can do it at level 4. When you hit level 5, you'll have five bardic inspiration die and get them back on a short rest.
I would take Charisma to 20, especially for the eloquence bard. It's leaning into your ability to make enemies fail their saving throws via Unsettling Words. I would also take expertise in both Persuasion and Deception, to compliment Silver Tongue. Your Charasma checks for those are going to be insane. Roll a Nat 1 and announce, "Eighteen!"
Level 1 spells, Dissonant Whispers, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Healing Word are all good. Level 2 Blindness/Deafness, Heat Metal, Silence (for spellcasters), Hold Person are good.
Personal opinion, if I am walking into a game with 18 in your casting stat, I use feats to buff the stat and get other things. Is it optimal? Hard to say. Math-wise probably not, because as a few others have said, you may need that spell save DC to be as high as possible to get creatures and things to fail the saves on your abilities and spells. And that will not be maxed out (excluding item buffs) until level 8 or maybe even 12 if you are willing to do that. However, value wise, I think taking a feat at level 4 is better. I get a slight stat bump and I get other things and some of those things are free spells that use my spellcasting stat as for their saves.
I would consider the Fey and Shadow Touched feats. They can be used to bump you Charisma. It won't be maxed out but you will gain 2 spells per feat. Misty Step and a Level 1 spell from the divination or enchantment schools for the Fey touched feat. For Shadow Touched, you can bump your charisma and have access to Invisibility and a level 1 spell from the illusion or necromancy schools. The kicker is, you have one free cast of these per long rest, and if you want you can use slots to cast these spells. You could also look into the elven specific feats as well. They are ok, but I don't think they would necessarily suit your character.
If you wanted to get Actor or Inspiring Leader I would ask your GM to consider re-working. Cody from Taking 20 has a pretty good re-work of the Actor feat where you basically create a distraction of some kind. And the Inspiring Leader fits someone who has an uncanny way with words. But I feel like it is lacking a little bit, maybe see if you can get some of the things off of the Heroism or Hero's Feast spells. Like immune to frighten or advantage on saves while you have the temporary hit points. Maybe something like that. Both bump Charisma as well.
Telekinetic and Telepathic are interesting choices as well, but they depend on the character. So you can bump Charisma with both. Telekinetic you get magic hand for free. The kicker here is if you are using AoE spells. You can push or pull creatures into your AoE spells provided they are still active, things like Spirit Shroud or Stinking Could, and the target is close to the perimeter of them. Telepathic may be more up your character's alley though. You can telepathically communicate with creatures within 60ft of you and you get detect thoughts for free once per long rest and if you have lvl 2 slots you can cast it that way as well. Now, I don't know about you, but a conman would probably like to know their target's thoughts mid con to get the desired outcome.
As for spells, I would say Bane and Dissonant Whispers for sure. Distort Value would be in line with the con-man part of the character but it is somewhat niche and maybe not allowed cause it is out of the Acquisitions Incorporated book. Silence, Enthrall, and Pyrotechnics also fit in that con-man/performer aspect as well. Obvious damage spells like Thunderwave, Shatter, and Heat Metal are there as well. I go back and forth on Hold Person. Most humanoids typically don't have the Strength save to beat Max's Earthen Grasp and it does damage, but it does require earth to work. Most monsters don't have the wisdom to beat Hold Person. Up to you on that one. I think you will need magical secrets to get the Earthen Grasp spell though. Personally, I think the Illusion and Enchantment school are brutal. They may require some creativity in use on your part, but can be quite fun. Just don't go all the way into those schools, you may find that you have nothing to do in combat encounters. Outside of that bards are exceptionally versatile and can be built a number of ways so do what works for you mate.