Hi, I was checking the Armorer subclass and just realized that it makes your Artificer almost entirely dependant on you having your Arcane Armor. So, wouldn't Heat Metal be an incredibly big weakness to the Armorer?
I know that it can be removed as an action, but you're more than likely going to drop the armor until the spell is off. Also you may not be wielding anything other than an infused shield, so, if your armor carried most of your infusions (and the subclass basically tells you to do so), you are only left with a shield to protect yourself (granted, it can still be used as an arcane focus).
Heat metal does what? 2d8 (+1d8) fire damage per spell level, takes up the casters concentration and bonus action, and you can doff the armor as a bonus action. It seems like it occupies the caster for very little loss to the artificer and rapidly diminishing damage at higher levels. Honestly I would rather it hit the artificer rather than the fighter, who cant drop his armor.
This is also predicated on how long combat usually last in your campaigns, in my experience most combat is less than 4 rounds on average so it would not be a huge deal.
It's not about the damage, it's about being able to completely shut off a subclass with just a lvl 2 spell that doesn't require a saving throw or an attack roll. And Armorers use an action to don on and off the armor, so even if the caster used the Heat Metal for just a turn, it would take at least 2 whole turns for the Armorer to be back on the fight.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much for a few reasons:
It would be a major dick move for your DM to keep using this against you; while it makes sense that enemy casters may have a decent mix of spells, so could have Heat Metal up their sleeve for high threat armoured foes, they should also only use it when it's justified, i.e- you are the highest threat.
It requires concentration; if you can target the caster then do-so. If allies can, ask them to as well; concentration is fairly easy to break with enough attacks or one or two very high damage attacks.
While the damage is unavoidable, it's not that bad. IMO the disadvantage is the worst part, but unlike a pure martial you're not crippled by it as you can always cast a save-based cantrip or spell instead. You also have access to Absorb Elements to mitigate the damage, or Cure Wounds to fix yourself up; your priority is still to break the concentration as fast as possible though as you don't want to be burning extra slots for long.
I think in general it's not as big a threat as people worry it might be; the real danger comes from the fact that once it's active, it's added damage on top of whatever else the caster is doing using their action, but ultimately it doesn't change what you need to do, which is to stop them from doing magic. Either do that personally, or leave it to an ally who's better equipped (Monks and Rogues are ideal anti-casters due to speed and raw damage/concentration breaking, so don't feel like you need to be the one to solve your problem).
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I have used heat metal against the artificer in my campaign and honestly it wasnt a huge deal. He jumped out of his armour and took the AC hit for it, but still had his throwing axe of returning and his shield, and the party made short work of the magma mephits anyway!
Yes it hurts them, but that's the whole point of offensive spells. Druids, on the other hand, are basically immune as they can't wear metal armour!
I am not sure how that statement doesn't equally apply to a fighter in metal armor. Except that the armor can solve the issue, and the fighter cant. Presumably even with out the armor the Artificer has some sort of weapon. How often is this likely to come up in combat?
Yes, you are right that melee heavy armored characters (like the fighter and the paladin) are more likely to suffer both the damage and the disadvantage over a longer period of time than the Armorer. What worries me about the Armorer specifically is that it can be effectively removed from the battle for at least 1 turn (using an action to don off the armor) or take the same suffering the fighter and the paladin may take.
I realize it's not that big of a deal, but my line of thought was: "This subclass basically tells me to focus almost exclusively on my armor, wouldn't it be bad if there was a case in which that could turn agaisnt me?"
Yes, you are right that melee heavy armored characters (like the fighter and the paladin) are more likely to suffer both the damage and the disadvantage over a longer period of time than the Armorer. What worries me about the Armorer specifically is that it can be effectively removed from the battle for at least 1 turn (using an action to don off the armor) or take the same suffering the fighter and the paladin may take.
I realize it's not that big of a deal, but my line of thought was: "This subclass basically tells me to focus almost exclusively on my armor, wouldn't it be bad if there was a case in which that could turn agaisnt me?"
Same deal as a wizard being stared at by a beholder (focussed entirely on spells, here's some antimagic) or a fighter being shot by a goblin up a tree (focussed entirely on melee, here's someone out of reach) and so on. If you put all your eggs in one basket, they're all going to break if you drop it!
it's up to the armourer to decide whether they want to take the action to get out or if they want to keep pushing through, and the fact that they have that option means they're less crippled by this than a fighter or paladin, and it's only one turn!
What worries me about the Armorer specifically is that it can be effectively removed from the battle for at least 1 turn (using an action to don off the armor) or take the same suffering the fighter and the paladin may take.
This a false dichotomy, as you're assuming that your only two options are to take off the armour, or suffer the full effects; where is option three; do something about it?
Okay, so you'll take at least one round of damage, but as already said you can counter the disadvantage of keeping the armour on by simply not using something with an attack roll; Thunderwave can be just as good at disrupting the caster's concentration as punching them would be, so will any number of other spells, including Dispel Magic once you (or someone else in the party) can get it. And that part in brackets is important; as it's not just you that can do something about it.
If your party has a Monk or Rogue then going after a caster that's concentrating upon something is absolutely something they should do, as they have the speed and high damage/multiple attacks to force those concentration checks. If you have ranged allies then they can also fire at the caster, and if it gets to your turn and the spell's still going, you can intervene yourself. If you have more pressing concerns then your (or your party's) other option is to mitigate the effects; anything that grants advantage will counteract disadvantage, fire resistance from any source will reduce the damage and so-on.
So you absolutely have more options than dump your armour and wait for death, or keep it on and wait for death. 😝
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In the interim, an Armorer can use Defensive Field as a bonus action until the caster loses concentration. So the damage can be mitigated with Temp HP.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. An enemy caster would probably rather hit the paladin or fighter than the alchemist. If it does hit you, you have the option to just take the 2d8 and focus on hurting the caster so that they drop concentration or die. How long is that guy going to hold the spell, probably just 2 or 3 rounds, right? It's not a big deal to just ignore it.
Drop the armor and rely on your shield for AC. This might push you out of the front line. Now their caster is forced to maintain Concentration on a spell that is doing literally nothing, or drop concentration and you put the armor back on as an action. Losing your action sucks. But if the enemy was a Bard or Druid then instead of Heat Metal they could have cast the concentration spell Hold Person on you and potentially made you lose your action, bonus action, reactions, and movement for up to 10 turns. Thank them for casting Heat Metal instead.
If your DM becomes a one-trick pony casting Heat Metal all the time, then you could be Leather Man instead of Iron Man, and never worry about it again. If you have high Dex studded leather is great. And you probably do have pretty good dex because you need it for picking locks, dex saves, etc. With leather infilitrator armor and proficiency in stealth you can be a better sneak than a rogue with expertise in stealth.
Hi, I was checking the Armorer subclass and just realized that it makes your Artificer almost entirely dependant on you having your Arcane Armor. So, wouldn't Heat Metal be an incredibly big weakness to the Armorer?
I know that it can be removed as an action, but you're more than likely going to drop the armor until the spell is off. Also you may not be wielding anything other than an infused shield, so, if your armor carried most of your infusions (and the subclass basically tells you to do so), you are only left with a shield to protect yourself (granted, it can still be used as an arcane focus).
spot on, don't give my dm ideas
And that’s why you need to craft dragon scale mail armor…
Heat metal does what? 2d8 (+1d8) fire damage per spell level, takes up the casters concentration and bonus action, and you can doff the armor as a bonus action. It seems like it occupies the caster for very little loss to the artificer and rapidly diminishing damage at higher levels. Honestly I would rather it hit the artificer rather than the fighter, who cant drop his armor.
This is also predicated on how long combat usually last in your campaigns, in my experience most combat is less than 4 rounds on average so it would not be a huge deal.
It's not about the damage, it's about being able to completely shut off a subclass with just a lvl 2 spell that doesn't require a saving throw or an attack roll. And Armorers use an action to don on and off the armor, so even if the caster used the Heat Metal for just a turn, it would take at least 2 whole turns for the Armorer to be back on the fight.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much for a few reasons:
I think in general it's not as big a threat as people worry it might be; the real danger comes from the fact that once it's active, it's added damage on top of whatever else the caster is doing using their action, but ultimately it doesn't change what you need to do, which is to stop them from doing magic. Either do that personally, or leave it to an ally who's better equipped (Monks and Rogues are ideal anti-casters due to speed and raw damage/concentration breaking, so don't feel like you need to be the one to solve your problem).
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I have used heat metal against the artificer in my campaign and honestly it wasnt a huge deal. He jumped out of his armour and took the AC hit for it, but still had his throwing axe of returning and his shield, and the party made short work of the magma mephits anyway!
Yes it hurts them, but that's the whole point of offensive spells. Druids, on the other hand, are basically immune as they can't wear metal armour!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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NinSlayer,
I am not sure how that statement doesn't equally apply to a fighter in metal armor. Except that the armor can solve the issue, and the fighter cant. Presumably even with out the armor the Artificer has some sort of weapon. How often is this likely to come up in combat?
Yes, you are right that melee heavy armored characters (like the fighter and the paladin) are more likely to suffer both the damage and the disadvantage over a longer period of time than the Armorer. What worries me about the Armorer specifically is that it can be effectively removed from the battle for at least 1 turn (using an action to don off the armor) or take the same suffering the fighter and the paladin may take.
I realize it's not that big of a deal, but my line of thought was: "This subclass basically tells me to focus almost exclusively on my armor, wouldn't it be bad if there was a case in which that could turn agaisnt me?"
Same deal as a wizard being stared at by a beholder (focussed entirely on spells, here's some antimagic) or a fighter being shot by a goblin up a tree (focussed entirely on melee, here's someone out of reach) and so on. If you put all your eggs in one basket, they're all going to break if you drop it!
it's up to the armourer to decide whether they want to take the action to get out or if they want to keep pushing through, and the fact that they have that option means they're less crippled by this than a fighter or paladin, and it's only one turn!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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This a false dichotomy, as you're assuming that your only two options are to take off the armour, or suffer the full effects; where is option three; do something about it?
Okay, so you'll take at least one round of damage, but as already said you can counter the disadvantage of keeping the armour on by simply not using something with an attack roll; Thunderwave can be just as good at disrupting the caster's concentration as punching them would be, so will any number of other spells, including Dispel Magic once you (or someone else in the party) can get it. And that part in brackets is important; as it's not just you that can do something about it.
If your party has a Monk or Rogue then going after a caster that's concentrating upon something is absolutely something they should do, as they have the speed and high damage/multiple attacks to force those concentration checks. If you have ranged allies then they can also fire at the caster, and if it gets to your turn and the spell's still going, you can intervene yourself. If you have more pressing concerns then your (or your party's) other option is to mitigate the effects; anything that grants advantage will counteract disadvantage, fire resistance from any source will reduce the damage and so-on.
So you absolutely have more options than dump your armour and wait for death, or keep it on and wait for death. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
In the interim, an Armorer can use Defensive Field as a bonus action until the caster loses concentration. So the damage can be mitigated with Temp HP.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. An enemy caster would probably rather hit the paladin or fighter than the alchemist. If it does hit you, you have the option to just take the 2d8 and focus on hurting the caster so that they drop concentration or die. How long is that guy going to hold the spell, probably just 2 or 3 rounds, right? It's not a big deal to just ignore it.
Drop the armor and rely on your shield for AC. This might push you out of the front line. Now their caster is forced to maintain Concentration on a spell that is doing literally nothing, or drop concentration and you put the armor back on as an action. Losing your action sucks. But if the enemy was a Bard or Druid then instead of Heat Metal they could have cast the concentration spell Hold Person on you and potentially made you lose your action, bonus action, reactions, and movement for up to 10 turns. Thank them for casting Heat Metal instead.
If your DM becomes a one-trick pony casting Heat Metal all the time, then you could be Leather Man instead of Iron Man, and never worry about it again. If you have high Dex studded leather is great. And you probably do have pretty good dex because you need it for picking locks, dex saves, etc. With leather infilitrator armor and proficiency in stealth you can be a better sneak than a rogue with expertise in stealth.
leather armour?? oops already mentioned.
prestidigitation and cool the armour? 1 cubic foot is 6 feet area so medium size ish
run up and grapple the caster. Now thier concentration is hurting themselves
you doff or don the armor as an action. The rest of what you said is true, though