Every time people compare this to wielding two weapons in the same hand I cringe inside. It is not two weapons being wielded the same way, it is an item under multiple magical effects. If you take a +3 great sword and use oil of sharpness on it, you receive both effects, I know there is some debate on the absence of the words “in addition” or “stack” with the gauntlets, but I personally think this is a Wizards of the Coast syntax problem, the best solution would be for them to get in on the discussion but it seems unfair to the players to not allow it to stack.
It seems MORE unfair to allow the Armorer to stack multiple infusions and functions onto the same weapon and deal three to five times the per-hit damage of any other weapon character that doesn't have Artifact-level equipment. Oil of Sharpness is a rare and extremely costly consumable magic buff; stacking three or four infusions onto your fist in ways that were clearly and obviously never intended is not a comparable situation.
It's like trying to claim that because a battle axe and a warhammer deal different damage types, if you used sovereign glue to attach them together you'd have a one-handed weapon that dealt 2d8 damage per swing.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It seems MORE unfair to allow the Armorer to stack multiple infusions and functions onto the same weapon and deal three to five times the per-hit damage of any other weapon character that doesn't have Artifact-level equipment. Oil of Sharpness is a rare and extremely costly consumable magic buff; stacking three or four infusions onto your fist in ways that were clearly and obviously never intended is not a comparable situation.
Who is saying “clearly and obviously”? If it was clear and obvious then this entire forum wouldn’t exist! And it’s not three or four infusions, it is one Armorer Ability, which specifically states that it is compatible with infusions:
“You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Item feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions, and the infusions transfer over if you change your armor’s model with the Armor Model feature. In addition, the maximum number of items you can infuse at once increases by 2, but those extra items must be part of your Arcane Armor.”
…and an infusion. The armor is specifically designed to have both the Arcane armor features and multiple infusions active at the SAME TIME.
And how much of an advantage are you expected to get at this level? You would be getting only an additional 1d8 damage while fighting enemies of very high challenge levels, the Artificer is designed to buff themselves with their infusions, the majority of their abilities have to do with their infusions, if they don’t get their infusions there is nothing else on their side. Allow the Armorer to have their powerful Armor, if anything this would be the “clearly and obviously” correct decision.
You are saying that you can apply the Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion to your gauntlets, a separate "Gauntlet" infusion to your gauntlets, a third "Special Weapon" infusion to your gauntlets, and still get the effects of your Thunder Gauntlets.
Point me to one single other instance of multiple effects being able to stack additively onto the same item/character this way, in all of 5e. One single other instance. One single time.
Spoilers: you can't. Because that's not how the game works. If you want to stack fifteen infusions on your gauntlets and deal more d8s per punch than a rogue gets d6s of Sneak Attack, go nuts. Convince your DM to let you have it. But DO NOT tell other players this is RAW when it is written precisely nowhere that the Armorer gets to break the rules of 5e and attack with multiple weapons for any given individual attack.
ITS NOT TWO ITEMS BEING WIELDED AT THE SAME TIME OR ATTACHED TO EACH OTHER! IT’S THE SAME ITEM UNDERGOING MULTIPLE EFFECTS!
right, and because it states a flat "your fist does 1d8 thunder" in one, and "your fist does 1d8 force" in the other, its setting the base damage type of the weapon in use, you dont get to choose to have both base weapon effects active, its one or the other, it would only stack, if it was phrased as the eldritch claw is, or other weapons of that nature that are phrased generally like this :
ex : In addition, your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 force damage on a hit.
its not in addition, or the word extra, there fore they do not stack on top of eachother, that is the rules as written ruling on this : it deals 1d8 thunder, or 1d8 force
You are saying that you can apply the Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion to your gauntlets, a separate "Gauntlet" infusion to your gauntlets, a third "Special Weapon" infusion to your gauntlets, and still get the effects of your Thunder Gauntlets.
Point me to one single other instance of multiple effects being able to stack additively onto the same item/character this way, in all of 5e. One single other instance. One single time.
Spoilers: you can't. Because that's not how the game works. If you want to stack fifteen infusions on your gauntlets and deal more d8s per punch than a rogue gets d6s of Sneak Attack, go nuts. Convince your DM to let you have it. But DO NOT tell other players this is RAW when it is written precisely nowhere that the Armorer gets to break the rules of 5e and attack with multiple weapons for any given individual attack.
No, the infusion to the Gauntlets would just be the Armor infusion. The boots, helm, and weapon infusions couldn’t apply to the gauntlets. Also, you can only use one infusion on an item at a time, this is why the whole, “counts as separate items for the purpose of infusions” feature was added to the Armorer to increase their abilities. The gauntlet infusion is for the Armor slot, which is already enhanced by a non-infusion effect.
Also, it is NOT “multiple weapons”. You are not wearing two sets of gauntlets or gluing two sets of gauntlets together or merging two sets of gauntlets together. There is only ever ONE weapon, a weapon undergoing multiple effects such as a character under the effects of Bless while also having Bardic Inspiration, or a Rune Knight using their Giant’s might ability then having Enlarge/Reduce cast on them, or a Rouge/Paladin/Rune Knight getting both Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, and the Extra Bonuses for their weapon being a Flame Tongue Rapier, and under the effects of Bless and Bardic Inspiration, and Heat Metal Cast on their weapon’s blade, and poison added to the blade, and they are enlarged by Giant’s Might, and they have Enlarge Reduce Cast on them.
Only a SINGLE D8 IS BEING ADDED BY THE ARMORER, as opposed to the massive amounts of damage a rogue is able to add at this level, just with their Sneak Attack.
How much of a difference would a d8 do? 1-8 additional damage? As opposed to completely annihilating whatever the massively buffed PC is attacking? All of which is allowed by your God the legendary Mythic RAW. Sure it is implausible, but it would be possible to accomplish.
What would be great is if One Dnd specifically either made these two features compatible or incompatible, until then we will have to remain in our separate worlds where one Artificer can deal slightly more damage than the other version.
Did I mention that it is only one item, which you people seem to constantly be refuting?
I did?
Well it is one item, not two.
Feel free to respond but I’m done RAW-bashing with you people, Farewell, and may all your rolls be critical successes.
On second thought that would be boring…
May all your rolls make the game more interesting and fun for all involved including you!
Here's the thing. A gauntlet by itself does not count as a weapon. Thunder Gauntlet and Arcane Propulsion Arm are not effects that enhance an existing weapon. They're effects that create a new weapon: their effect is [create weapon with base damage 1d8]. That is why they do not stack, no matter how much anyone tries to argue otherwise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I saw someone mention you can't have 2 infusions on a single gauntlet in regards to Thunder Gauntlets and APA. The Thunder Gauntlets are NOT an infusion. its just a feature of the Arcane Armor feature. At level 9, your Arcane Armor is counted as multiple pieces (chest, helm, boots, and special weapon) for the sole purpose of adding infusions to it, that includes the APA. In my opinion, it should stack. its definitely not over powered at level 14 to do 2d8 damage.
I saw someone mention you can't have 2 infusions on a single gauntlet in regards to Thunder Gauntlets and APA. The Thunder Gauntlets are NOT an infusion. its just a feature of the Arcane Armor feature. At level 9, your Arcane Armor is counted as multiple pieces (chest, helm, boots, and special weapon) for the sole purpose of adding infusions to it, that includes the APA. In my opinion, it should stack. its definitely not over powered at level 14 to do 2d8 damage.
Thunder Gauntlets aren't a nothing. They are Thunder Gauntlets, a simple melee weapon. And you can't "thunder-gauntlet" the arcane armor gauntlets, because those gauntlets are magical.
There is precisely zero text anywhere that would lead me to think I could combine the two.
Both the Thunder Gauntlet and Arcane Propulsion Armor gauntlet add your ability modifier to the damage roll. It's not an attack for 1d8, it's 1d8+Intelligence (for Thunder Gauntlet) or Strength (for arcane propulsion).
Also, the Thunder Gauntlet's description explicitly lets you stick the Enhanced Weapon infusion, making it a +2 weapon at that level. That means that two attacks with a Thunder Gauntlet deal 2d8+14 damage, which handily beats out 4d10 from Fire Bolt. As I've stated before, letting the Thunder Gauntlet and APA gauntlet stack together is akin to gluing a warhammer to a long sword and claiming that it counts as one weapon that deals 2d8 damage on a hit.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don’t think the effects stack. But you definitely get to choose however when building one on here arcane armor lists weapon attacks using intelligence but when the infusion is added it goes off of strength per the DDB sheet. Is it supposed to go off of STR or was this an oversight on the design
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That’s what I’m saying!
But they didn’t write a rule that says you can, so by your own standard, you can’t.
And neither of those features said you could combine them with the other, hence, since they didn’t write it, it doesn’t work.
You know, I have made my point and I’m sure it’s clear, so I have no further reason to reply here, have a lovely day everyone!
Every time people compare this to wielding two weapons in the same hand I cringe inside. It is not two weapons being wielded the same way, it is an item under multiple magical effects. If you take a +3 great sword and use oil of sharpness on it, you receive both effects, I know there is some debate on the absence of the words “in addition” or “stack” with the gauntlets, but I personally think this is a Wizards of the Coast syntax problem, the best solution would be for them to get in on the discussion but it seems unfair to the players to not allow it to stack.
It seems MORE unfair to allow the Armorer to stack multiple infusions and functions onto the same weapon and deal three to five times the per-hit damage of any other weapon character that doesn't have Artifact-level equipment. Oil of Sharpness is a rare and extremely costly consumable magic buff; stacking three or four infusions onto your fist in ways that were clearly and obviously never intended is not a comparable situation.
Please do not contact or message me.
It's like trying to claim that because a battle axe and a warhammer deal different damage types, if you used sovereign glue to attach them together you'd have a one-handed weapon that dealt 2d8 damage per swing.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
ITS NOT TWO ITEMS BEING WIELDED AT THE SAME TIME OR ATTACHED TO EACH OTHER! IT’S THE SAME ITEM UNDERGOING MULTIPLE EFFECTS!
Who is saying “clearly and obviously”? If it was clear and obvious then this entire forum wouldn’t exist! And it’s not three or four infusions, it is one Armorer Ability, which specifically states that it is compatible with infusions:
“You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Item feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions, and the infusions transfer over if you change your armor’s model with the Armor Model feature. In addition, the maximum number of items you can infuse at once increases by 2, but those extra items must be part of your Arcane Armor.”
…and an infusion. The armor is specifically designed to have both the Arcane armor features and multiple infusions active at the SAME TIME.
And how much of an advantage are you expected to get at this level? You would be getting only an additional 1d8 damage while fighting enemies of very high challenge levels, the Artificer is designed to buff themselves with their infusions, the majority of their abilities have to do with their infusions, if they don’t get their infusions there is nothing else on their side. Allow the Armorer to have their powerful Armor, if anything this would be the “clearly and obviously” correct decision.
You are saying that you can apply the Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion to your gauntlets, a separate "Gauntlet" infusion to your gauntlets, a third "Special Weapon" infusion to your gauntlets, and still get the effects of your Thunder Gauntlets.
Point me to one single other instance of multiple effects being able to stack additively onto the same item/character this way, in all of 5e. One single other instance. One single time.
Spoilers: you can't. Because that's not how the game works. If you want to stack fifteen infusions on your gauntlets and deal more d8s per punch than a rogue gets d6s of Sneak Attack, go nuts. Convince your DM to let you have it. But DO NOT tell other players this is RAW when it is written precisely nowhere that the Armorer gets to break the rules of 5e and attack with multiple weapons for any given individual attack.
Please do not contact or message me.
right, and because it states a flat "your fist does 1d8 thunder" in one, and "your fist does 1d8 force" in the other, its setting the base damage type of the weapon in use, you dont get to choose to have both base weapon effects active, its one or the other, it would only stack, if it was phrased as the eldritch claw is, or other weapons of that nature that are phrased generally like this :
ex : In addition, your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 force damage on a hit.
its not in addition, or the word extra, there fore they do not stack on top of eachother, that is the rules as written ruling on this : it deals 1d8 thunder, or 1d8 force
No, the infusion to the Gauntlets would just be the Armor infusion. The boots, helm, and weapon infusions couldn’t apply to the gauntlets. Also, you can only use one infusion on an item at a time, this is why the whole, “counts as separate items for the purpose of infusions” feature was added to the Armorer to increase their abilities. The gauntlet infusion is for the Armor slot, which is already enhanced by a non-infusion effect.
Also, it is NOT “multiple weapons”. You are not wearing two sets of gauntlets or gluing two sets of gauntlets together or merging two sets of gauntlets together. There is only ever ONE weapon, a weapon undergoing multiple effects such as a character under the effects of Bless while also having Bardic Inspiration, or a Rune Knight using their Giant’s might ability then having Enlarge/Reduce cast on them, or a Rouge/Paladin/Rune Knight getting both Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, and the Extra Bonuses for their weapon being a Flame Tongue Rapier, and under the effects of Bless and Bardic Inspiration, and Heat Metal Cast on their weapon’s blade, and poison added to the blade, and they are enlarged by Giant’s Might, and they have Enlarge Reduce Cast on them.
Only a SINGLE D8 IS BEING ADDED BY THE ARMORER, as opposed to the massive amounts of damage a rogue is able to add at this level, just with their Sneak Attack.
How much of a difference would a d8 do? 1-8 additional damage? As opposed to completely annihilating whatever the massively buffed PC is attacking? All of which is allowed by your God the legendary Mythic RAW. Sure it is implausible, but it would be possible to accomplish.
What would be great is if One Dnd specifically either made these two features compatible or incompatible, until then we will have to remain in our separate worlds where one Artificer can deal slightly more damage than the other version.
Did I mention that it is only one item, which you people seem to constantly be refuting?
I did?
Well it is one item, not two.
Feel free to respond but I’m done RAW-bashing with you people, Farewell, and may all your rolls be critical successes.
On second thought that would be boring…
May all your rolls make the game more interesting and fun for all involved including you!
…wait that is far too long…
Have fun playing the world’s greatest game!
Here's the thing. A gauntlet by itself does not count as a weapon. Thunder Gauntlet and Arcane Propulsion Arm are not effects that enhance an existing weapon. They're effects that create a new weapon: their effect is [create weapon with base damage 1d8]. That is why they do not stack, no matter how much anyone tries to argue otherwise.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I saw someone mention you can't have 2 infusions on a single gauntlet in regards to Thunder Gauntlets and APA. The Thunder Gauntlets are NOT an infusion. its just a feature of the Arcane Armor feature. At level 9, your Arcane Armor is counted as multiple pieces (chest, helm, boots, and special weapon) for the sole purpose of adding infusions to it, that includes the APA. In my opinion, it should stack. its definitely not over powered at level 14 to do 2d8 damage.
Thunder Gauntlets aren't a nothing. They are Thunder Gauntlets, a simple melee weapon. And you can't "thunder-gauntlet" the arcane armor gauntlets, because those gauntlets are magical.
There is precisely zero text anywhere that would lead me to think I could combine the two.
Both the Thunder Gauntlet and Arcane Propulsion Armor gauntlet add your ability modifier to the damage roll. It's not an attack for 1d8, it's 1d8+Intelligence (for Thunder Gauntlet) or Strength (for arcane propulsion).
Also, the Thunder Gauntlet's description explicitly lets you stick the Enhanced Weapon infusion, making it a +2 weapon at that level. That means that two attacks with a Thunder Gauntlet deal 2d8+14 damage, which handily beats out 4d10 from Fire Bolt. As I've stated before, letting the Thunder Gauntlet and APA gauntlet stack together is akin to gluing a warhammer to a long sword and claiming that it counts as one weapon that deals 2d8 damage on a hit.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don’t think the effects stack. But you definitely get to choose however when building one on here arcane armor lists weapon attacks using intelligence but when the infusion is added it goes off of strength per the DDB sheet. Is it supposed to go off of STR or was this an oversight on the design