I am discussing in another thread how Alchemist have gradually lost access to potions over the various editions. Things they used to be able to craft they cannot anymore and with a glimpse at the 6e UA it appears that the potions they can craft everyone else now can too.
So, as an Alchemist main who is True Neutral if I murder Tasha (who has done some pretty awful stuff) then would Alchemist gain their access to creating potions which have become lost to time back?
I mean to be honest I have nothing against Tasha but if she is the person Gate Keeping what potions I can make like the FDA then why did I marry a Drow to gain citizenship so I could create a secret lab in Menzoberranzan?!
EDIT: I am sorry my murderhobo is coming out. There has to be a better way to handle the matter... but if I were to... hypothetically speaking... would it work? You know for purely academic purposes.
... I have no idea what Tasha has to do with an alchemist character's relative ability to make potions, but if you somehow manage to find and kill a time-traveling demon-lord-imprisoning super-archmage solely to brew some potions, you probably deserve to brew the potions.
Killing an NPC who has no stats (and therefore no means of being fought) will have no impact on the stats of a character class. The fact that the Artificer was reprinted in the supplement book Tasha's Cauldron of Everything does not, in fact, mean that Tasha herself has anything to do with the class.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
... I have no idea what Tasha has to do with an alchemist character's relative ability to make potions, but if you somehow manage to find and kill a time-traveling demon-lord-imprisoning super-archmage solely to brew some potions, you probably deserve to brew the potions.
I don't really know myself but it is her Cauldron and I do deserve to brew the potions! So, I have an idea. Since I have proficiency in Brewing and Glassblowing I can make her beer and even bottle it so that it looks super artisan. Then maybe I can just get her drunk instead of murder her?
So to sum up your character is upset Tasha came up with a mid 6th level spell that makes potions that last 1 day.
No I am upset that she stole all our potions! This all spawned out of a discussion at how the Alchemist class (subclass) has continually gotten nerfed and lost access to crafting more and more potions each edition.
Alchemist in AD&D can distil any spell into a potion. This made them no longer spells so you could quaff a potion to simulate a spell casting of that spell without it counting as magic. Whomever drank the potion wouldn't need components too and they persisted so they could become the most powerful people in game but it took longer for that to happen than it does with Wizards. It made them a bit clunky but they weren't in the group to be the main character. In AD&D the Alchemist wasn't really broken but it could break everyone else's characters by giving them a ton of free spells via potions.
In 3.5e they took away a ton of potions and gave us bombs and gadgets. We could still craft potions no one else could but it is my least favorite version of Alchemist because it was the beginning of the end. While the class has always been associated with magic they weren't designed as spell casters. Here they forced casting on us but gave us gadgets and bombs so it wouldn't feel like another Wizard.
5e was the worst. Potions have almost entirely disappeared from the game by comparison to other editions. No player agency in what elixirs one can brew and by making the elixirs randomized ie chaotic the original spirit of the class was murdered in cold blood. Alchemist were never about randomization or chaos. They are about knowing exactly how to mix things so as to change their nature. Spells become potions that no longer count as Spells so you can use them in the Underdark or in Antimagic zones.
In 6e they are keeping it the same as 5e by making the class decidedly not an Alchemist by taking even more potions away. They did provide some very limited player agency back to the class but they still don't operate like an Alchemist using D&D science to come up with a potion. Instead they pray to Tymora that the roll gives them one of the 5 potions left they can craft. Oh and they also gave every other class access to crafting every potion the Alchemist can make.
So, essentially Tasha or whomever took all but 5 potions away from Alchemist which are elixirs that only last 24 hours, are completely based on luck not Artifice, and can be crafted as their better full potion versions by anyone. It is so sad how they took the best class in AD&D and basically murdered it slowly so that players who pick Alchemist don't do it for any mechanical reason at all but for the RP which could really be done with any class.
I don't know why you are tying Tasha to edition changes in classes but okay, yes crafting sucks in 5e, either version and artificer merely poorly mimics crafting instead of being an actual crafter. Whether its alchemy, magic weapons, wands/staves etc. Though in 2e making magic items was quite the process, I think better than the current edition as they added enough flavor into it. I don't remember the alchemist class in 2e I assume something like a dragon magazine addition, but i assume it could make some potions with less hoop jumping than other 2e classes could.
I don't know why you are tying Tasha to edition changes in classes but okay, yes crafting sucks in 5e, either version and artificer merely poorly mimics crafting instead of being an actual crafter. Whether its alchemy, magic weapons, wands/staves etc. Though in 2e making magic items was quite the process, I think better than the current edition as they added enough flavor into it. I don't remember the alchemist class in 2e I assume something like a dragon magazine addition, but i assume it could make some potions with less hoop jumping than other 2e classes could.
Crafting in 6e is much better. It is just that the Artificer classes don't make anything other non-Artificers can make with Tool Proficiencies.
They were 1e AD&D not 2e AD&D. I mean you could still roll with one though. Very fun but downtime was absolutely required because each potion had to be crafted. The thing was that we held up in my lab for a month so I could craft a ton of various potions after each level up. That was the real draw back to the Alchemist and I bet why it wasn't a very popular class. Nonetheless I liked it. Running into battle with nothing but a belt full of potions that took me three months to create alongside my party who are decked out with potions like a Witcher.
I'm not sure why you're calling it 6e. That's not what most people call it, lol.
The alchemist gains proficiency in alchemist's supplies, which in turn enables the brewing of potions. The time to brew potions is halved for artificers. This means the crafting rules allow alchemists to access and possess potions at a faster rate than everyone else on top of the elixirs the subclass also grants.
Potions and elixirs can be very useful because they bypass concentration requirements. This is good aspect of the subclass. It looks to me like the UA alchemist makes the following potions (with cost in parantheses) from the 2024 core rules:
Basic Equipment: potion of healing (25gp) in 4 hours
Common Potions (1.25 days, 25gp):
Climbing
Comprehension
Uncommon Potions (2.5 days, 100gp):
Animal Friendship
Fire Breath
Giant Strength (Hill)
Growth
Healing (Greater)
Oil of Slipperiness
Philter of Love
Poison
Pugilism
Resistance
Water Breathing
Rare Potions (12.5 days, 1000gp):
Clairvoyance
Diminution
Elixir of Health
Gaseous Form
Giant Strength (Fire, Frost, or Stone)
Healing (Superior)
Heroism
Invisibility
Invulnerability
Mind Reading
Oil of Etherealness
Very Rare Potions (31.25 days, 10000gp):
Flying
Giant Strength (Cloud)
Greater Invisibility
Healing (Supreme)
Longevity
Oil of Sharpness
Speed
Vitality
Legendary Potions (62.5 days, 50000gp):
Giant Strength (Storm)
Some of those seem silly to spend that kind of time and money on a potions, but stocking up on uncommon or common potions during downtime is a good idea. This also gives alchemists several options for bonus action use since potions and elixirs are used on a bonus action. As long as a person uses downtime for some cheaper potions to go with the elixirs and uses spell slots to occasionally make elixirs when appropriate there seems like a lot of potions available to me.
I'm not sure why you're calling it 6e. That's not what most people call it, lol.
The alchemist gains proficiency in alchemist's supplies, which in turn enables the brewing of potions. The time to brew potions is halved for artificers. This means the crafting rules allow alchemists to access and possess potions at a faster rate than everyone else on top of the elixirs the subclass also grants.
Potions and elixirs can be very useful because they bypass concentration requirements. This is good aspect of the subclass. It looks to me like the UA alchemist makes the following potions (with cost in parantheses) from the 2024 core rules:
Basic Equipment: potion of healing (25gp) in 4 hours
Common Potions (1.25 days, 25gp):
Climbing
Comprehension
Uncommon Potions (2.5 days, 100gp):
Animal Friendship
Fire Breath
Giant Strength (Hill)
Growth
Healing (Greater)
Oil of Slipperiness
Philter of Love
Poison
Pugilism
Resistance
Water Breathing
Rare Potions (12.5 days, 1000gp):
Clairvoyance
Diminution
Elixir of Health
Gaseous Form
Giant Strength (Fire, Frost, or Stone)
Healing (Superior)
Heroism
Invisibility
Invulnerability
Mind Reading
Oil of Etherealness
Very Rare Potions (31.25 days, 10000gp):
Flying
Giant Strength (Cloud)
Greater Invisibility
Healing (Supreme)
Longevity
Oil of Sharpness
Speed
Vitality
Legendary Potions (62.5 days, 50000gp):
Giant Strength (Storm)
Some of those seem silly to spend that kind of time and money on a potions, but stocking up on uncommon or common potions during downtime is a good idea. This also gives alchemists several options for bonus action use since potions and elixirs are used on a bonus action. As long as a person uses downtime for some cheaper potions to go with the elixirs and uses spell slots to occasionally make elixirs when appropriate there seems like a lot of potions available to me.
Thank you for that list. I added it to my notes on my sheet along with the Miscibility table..
Potion Miscibility
1d100 Result
01 Both potions lose their effects, and the mixture creates a magical explosion in a 5-foot-radius Sphere centered on itself. Each creature in that area takes 4d10 Force damage.
02–08 Both potions lose their effects, and the mixture becomes an ingested poison of your choice (see “Poison” in chapter 3).
09–15 Both potions lose their effects.
16–25 One potion loses its effect.
26–35 Both potions work, but with their numerical effects and durations halved. If a potion has no numerical effect and no duration, it instead loses its effect.
36–90 Both potions work normally.
91–99 Both potions work, but the numerical effects and duration of one potion are doubled. If neither potion has anything to double in this way, they work normally.
00 Only one potion works, but its effects are permanent. Choose the simplest effect to make permanent or the one that seems the most fun. For example, a Potion of Healing might increase the drinker’s Hit Point maximum by 2d4 + 2, or a Potion of Invisibility might give the drinker the Invisible condition indefinitely. At your discretion, a Dispel Magic spell or similar magic might end this lasting effect.
.... I call it 6e because I do not recognize the Gregorian date. I suppose 5.5e works too?
As far as crafting is concerned anyone can craft all those potions and any Artificer in half the time. The Alchemist specialization adds very little to that mystic of being someone of truly superior skill. They don't have as much versatility as they used to have. AD&D Alchemist could brew Spells up to Level 9 into potions which wouldn't need components, could be used by anyone, persisted, and due to being distilled Spells they could do more than someone else who could merely just brew a potion during their downtime. Plus, Alchemy is the only form of Artifice that carries a draw back when stacking the effects. Maybe if the Alchemist class removed the Miscibility Chances I'd be happier because then at least my party could double potion effects or stack the armor class gains.
I thought that was just the play test name. Alright. One D&D it is and I like it!
Now, can we have more potion variety for the Alchemist? Like if I could convert all my spells into potions/elixirs which can mimic all of those spells I would.
Also, give Deneir something to do. Add Scribes to Artificer and give them all the spells.
Tasha... I know you're listening.... =_=
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
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I am discussing in another thread how Alchemist have gradually lost access to potions over the various editions. Things they used to be able to craft they cannot anymore and with a glimpse at the 6e UA it appears that the potions they can craft everyone else now can too.
So, as an Alchemist main who is True Neutral if I murder Tasha (who has done some pretty awful stuff) then would Alchemist gain their access to creating potions which have become lost to time back?
I mean to be honest I have nothing against Tasha but if she is the person Gate Keeping what potions I can make like the FDA then why did I marry a Drow to gain citizenship so I could create a secret lab in Menzoberranzan?!
EDIT: I am sorry my murderhobo is coming out. There has to be a better way to handle the matter... but if I were to... hypothetically speaking... would it work? You know for purely academic purposes.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
... I have no idea what Tasha has to do with an alchemist character's relative ability to make potions, but if you somehow manage to find and kill a time-traveling demon-lord-imprisoning super-archmage solely to brew some potions, you probably deserve to brew the potions.
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral
Killing an NPC who has no stats (and therefore no means of being fought) will have no impact on the stats of a character class. The fact that the Artificer was reprinted in the supplement book Tasha's Cauldron of Everything does not, in fact, mean that Tasha herself has anything to do with the class.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't really know myself but it is her Cauldron and I do deserve to brew the potions! So, I have an idea. Since I have proficiency in Brewing and Glassblowing I can make her beer and even bottle it so that it looks super artisan. Then maybe I can just get her drunk instead of murder her?
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
So to sum up your character is upset Tasha came up with a mid 6th level spell that makes potions that last 1 day.
No I am upset that she stole all our potions! This all spawned out of a discussion at how the Alchemist class (subclass) has continually gotten nerfed and lost access to crafting more and more potions each edition.
Alchemist in AD&D can distil any spell into a potion. This made them no longer spells so you could quaff a potion to simulate a spell casting of that spell without it counting as magic. Whomever drank the potion wouldn't need components too and they persisted so they could become the most powerful people in game but it took longer for that to happen than it does with Wizards. It made them a bit clunky but they weren't in the group to be the main character. In AD&D the Alchemist wasn't really broken but it could break everyone else's characters by giving them a ton of free spells via potions.
In 3.5e they took away a ton of potions and gave us bombs and gadgets. We could still craft potions no one else could but it is my least favorite version of Alchemist because it was the beginning of the end. While the class has always been associated with magic they weren't designed as spell casters. Here they forced casting on us but gave us gadgets and bombs so it wouldn't feel like another Wizard.
5e was the worst. Potions have almost entirely disappeared from the game by comparison to other editions. No player agency in what elixirs one can brew and by making the elixirs randomized ie chaotic the original spirit of the class was murdered in cold blood. Alchemist were never about randomization or chaos. They are about knowing exactly how to mix things so as to change their nature. Spells become potions that no longer count as Spells so you can use them in the Underdark or in Antimagic zones.
In 6e they are keeping it the same as 5e by making the class decidedly not an Alchemist by taking even more potions away. They did provide some very limited player agency back to the class but they still don't operate like an Alchemist using D&D science to come up with a potion. Instead they pray to Tymora that the roll gives them one of the 5 potions left they can craft. Oh and they also gave every other class access to crafting every potion the Alchemist can make.
So, essentially Tasha or whomever took all but 5 potions away from Alchemist which are elixirs that only last 24 hours, are completely based on luck not Artifice, and can be crafted as their better full potion versions by anyone. It is so sad how they took the best class in AD&D and basically murdered it slowly so that players who pick Alchemist don't do it for any mechanical reason at all but for the RP which could really be done with any class.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
I don't know why you are tying Tasha to edition changes in classes but okay, yes crafting sucks in 5e, either version and artificer merely poorly mimics crafting instead of being an actual crafter. Whether its alchemy, magic weapons, wands/staves etc. Though in 2e making magic items was quite the process, I think better than the current edition as they added enough flavor into it. I don't remember the alchemist class in 2e I assume something like a dragon magazine addition, but i assume it could make some potions with less hoop jumping than other 2e classes could.
Crafting in 6e is much better. It is just that the Artificer classes don't make anything other non-Artificers can make with Tool Proficiencies.
They were 1e AD&D not 2e AD&D. I mean you could still roll with one though. Very fun but downtime was absolutely required because each potion had to be crafted. The thing was that we held up in my lab for a month so I could craft a ton of various potions after each level up. That was the real draw back to the Alchemist and I bet why it wasn't a very popular class. Nonetheless I liked it. Running into battle with nothing but a belt full of potions that took me three months to create alongside my party who are decked out with potions like a Witcher.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
I'm not sure why you're calling it 6e. That's not what most people call it, lol.
The alchemist gains proficiency in alchemist's supplies, which in turn enables the brewing of potions. The time to brew potions is halved for artificers. This means the crafting rules allow alchemists to access and possess potions at a faster rate than everyone else on top of the elixirs the subclass also grants.
Potions and elixirs can be very useful because they bypass concentration requirements. This is good aspect of the subclass. It looks to me like the UA alchemist makes the following potions (with cost in parantheses) from the 2024 core rules:
Basic Equipment: potion of healing (25gp) in 4 hours
Common Potions (1.25 days, 25gp):
Uncommon Potions (2.5 days, 100gp):
Rare Potions (12.5 days, 1000gp):
Very Rare Potions (31.25 days, 10000gp):
Legendary Potions (62.5 days, 50000gp):
Some of those seem silly to spend that kind of time and money on a potions, but stocking up on uncommon or common potions during downtime is a good idea. This also gives alchemists several options for bonus action use since potions and elixirs are used on a bonus action. As long as a person uses downtime for some cheaper potions to go with the elixirs and uses spell slots to occasionally make elixirs when appropriate there seems like a lot of potions available to me.
Thank you for that list. I added it to my notes on my sheet along with the Miscibility table..
Potion Miscibility
1d100 Result
01 Both potions lose their effects, and the mixture creates a magical explosion in a 5-foot-radius Sphere centered on itself. Each creature in that area takes 4d10 Force damage.
02–08 Both potions lose their effects, and the mixture becomes an ingested poison of your choice (see “Poison” in chapter 3).
09–15 Both potions lose their effects.
16–25 One potion loses its effect.
26–35 Both potions work, but with their numerical effects and durations halved. If a potion has no numerical effect and no duration, it instead loses its effect.
36–90 Both potions work normally.
91–99 Both potions work, but the numerical effects and duration of one potion are doubled. If neither potion has anything to double in this way, they work normally.
00 Only one potion works, but its effects are permanent. Choose the simplest effect to make permanent or the one that seems the most fun. For example, a Potion of Healing might increase the drinker’s Hit Point maximum by 2d4 + 2, or a Potion of Invisibility might give the drinker the Invisible condition indefinitely. At your discretion, a Dispel Magic spell or similar magic might end this lasting effect.
.... I call it 6e because I do not recognize the Gregorian date. I suppose 5.5e works too?
As far as crafting is concerned anyone can craft all those potions and any Artificer in half the time. The Alchemist specialization adds very little to that mystic of being someone of truly superior skill. They don't have as much versatility as they used to have. AD&D Alchemist could brew Spells up to Level 9 into potions which wouldn't need components, could be used by anyone, persisted, and due to being distilled Spells they could do more than someone else who could merely just brew a potion during their downtime. Plus, Alchemy is the only form of Artifice that carries a draw back when stacking the effects. Maybe if the Alchemist class removed the Miscibility Chances I'd be happier because then at least my party could double potion effects or stack the armor class gains.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
It's One D&D officially.
Quotes to answer any question (pm me more)
Extended signature
I thought that was just the play test name. Alright. One D&D it is and I like it!
Now, can we have more potion variety for the Alchemist? Like if I could convert all my spells into potions/elixirs which can mimic all of those spells I would.
Also, give Deneir something to do. Add Scribes to Artificer and give them all the spells.
Tasha... I know you're listening.... =_=
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.