My battle smith is now level 10, yay! He's got some pretty nifty stats and things going for him. AC 22, 103 HP, +10 to hit. A ton of buffs and utility spells that he rarely uses because he's filling in for our lack of melee ability. It's all good. He punches well above his weight laying out a ton of damage and saving the day nearly every session (at least in my memory of it, if you know what I mean).
My question to the forum is this, though. He's had warding bond since forever, but I've never used it. I've been tempted to several times, but ultimately decide against it.
Here's the wording: This spell wards a willing creature you touch and creates a mystic connection between you and the target until the spell ends. While the target is within 60 feet of you, it gains a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws, and it has resistance to all damage. Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage.
It's the line, "Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage," seems like you're giving your opponent a two-for-one deal. I would use it for some of our squishier party members if it meant that only my artificer would take the damage or if it meant we'd split the damage, but giving us both the same amount of damage? How is that even fair or useful?
Am I reading this wrong? Does anyone actually use this spell? Is this old news and it's been answered so many times that nobody cares any more? Is this thing on? Am I alone here? What is the purpose of life? Get off my lawn! Damn clouds always blocking out the sun! Move on their clouds!
Basically, whenever the warded character takes damage, they take half and you take the other half. So if they get hit for 16 hp of damage, they take 8 hp of damage (because they have resistance) and you take 8 hp of damage (the same amount as them). It's a nice way to buff up a squishy person in a tight spot. It's also nice because it doesn't require concentration, so you can keep soaking damage to keep a squishy buddy up without having to give up your other tricks. My party has a dwarven life cleric tank who uses this in fights quite a bit because he's got a mountain of HP and the sorcerer does not.
Thank you, Anzio. It is what I would've expected it to be, but in plain English, the description doesn't actually say that. It says, "Also, each time it [the warded creature] takes damage, you take the same amount of damage." That doesn't say half of the damage dealt. It says you take the same amount of damage the warded creature takes, so if the warded creature takes eight damage, you take eight damage. I'm willing to happily accept your interpretation, but I can't help but scratch my ass and wonder why they didn't just say the damage is divided evenly between you? It could be said so much more directly and clearly if that's what they meant.
Thank you, Anzio. It is what I would've expected it to be, but in plain English, the description doesn't actually say that. It says, "Also, each time it [the warded creature] takes damage, you take the same amount of damage." That doesn't say half of the damage dealt. It says you take the same amount of damage the warded creature takes, so if the warded creature takes eight damage, you take eight damage. I'm willing to happily accept your interpretation, but I can't help but scratch my ass and wonder why they didn't just say the damage is divided evenly between you? It could be said so much more directly and clearly if that's what they meant.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
If they worded it the way you suggest, it would stack with other sources of damage resistance that the target might have, which is not what they wanted the spell to do.
But, in wording it in the way they did, it gives the warded creature full damage and the warder full damage. If you don't want it to stack, you just say, it doesn't stack, right?
In wording it the way they did, it gives the warded creature half damage and the warder half damage. I realize it’s confusing, but that is what it says.
Original damage calculation -> Adjustments (bonuses, penalties, multipliers) -> Resistance -> Vulnerabilities -> Damage taken
In the case of Warding Bond (and no other effects) it's Original damage -> Resistance -> Damage taken
The creature's damage taken is also applied to the caster of Warding Bond, not the original damage.
Note that if the creature under Warding bond has a corresponding Vulnerability (which doubles damage taken), or if the attacker has some ability to ignore Resistance then that would increase the Damage Taken by both the affected creature and the caster. But under normal circumstances its equal to both creatures taking half damage from what the affected creature would normally take.
Of note: +1 to AC and Saving Throws for an hour without costing concentration for a 2nd level spell slot is nothing to sneeze at either. That alone will in effect also reduce the original damage by either making attacks miss the affected creature or making them succeed on saving throws slightly more often.
I'm convinced of your arguments, y'all. But, I'll point out that if the total damage is 8 and both creatures take eight points of damage, then the warder has taken half of the damage because eight is half of sixteen. That's why I say it is poorly worded and could be stated more clearly.
The +1 to AC and ST and the conference of resistance to all damage are two of the reasons that I wanted to use it, other than taking damage for the warded creature. But, every time I read it, it says "...each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage," which says to me equal amounts of damage, not divided evenly between the two of you. I understand that it is my pendanticism that causes the misinterpretation because who in their right mind would make a spell that doubles the amount of damage a creature takes and gives half of that to another creature has a thank you for trying to protect it and call it a ward? I get it.
I agree it could be worded more clearly because I have also looked at this spell, thought it was for half damage to each even, and then misread it as full damage to both and dismissed it for myself even having seen it used.
Frankly I'd be okay if it let resistances stack - ie you put it on the thing that is resistant to fire damage, and they end up with a quarter damage and you do too.
It does, in most cases, mean you are splitting the damage, half to the caster and half to the target.
In thinking on it, Foolish, it seems, um, well, foolish to have ever read it any other way, but I just couldn't get past it. Our next session, our squishy druid is going to get a little gift because my battle smith took the tough feat and has a tall stack of HP.
The spell is also good for keeping squishy NPCs alive that you need to protect through a dangerous area. Let's say you rescue the Prince from captivity, but must fight your way out. You wouldn't want a stray fireball to slay the just rescued Prince when you were so close to rescuing him... Spells like Deathward or Warding Bond or Sanctuary can help keep the squishy folk alive while you fight your way out.
Also, if you are in a tough fight and one of your own party is taking a lot of hits, Warding Bond can help spread the damage out amongst two characters instead of one. This allows both to still make attacks each round, instead of taking one out of the fight to cast healing spells.
Howdy y'all!
My battle smith is now level 10, yay! He's got some pretty nifty stats and things going for him. AC 22, 103 HP, +10 to hit. A ton of buffs and utility spells that he rarely uses because he's filling in for our lack of melee ability. It's all good. He punches well above his weight laying out a ton of damage and saving the day nearly every session (at least in my memory of it, if you know what I mean).
My question to the forum is this, though. He's had warding bond since forever, but I've never used it. I've been tempted to several times, but ultimately decide against it.
Here's the wording:
This spell wards a willing creature you touch and creates a mystic connection between you and the target until the spell ends. While the target is within 60 feet of you, it gains a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws, and it has resistance to all damage. Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage.
It's the line, "Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage," seems like you're giving your opponent a two-for-one deal. I would use it for some of our squishier party members if it meant that only my artificer would take the damage or if it meant we'd split the damage, but giving us both the same amount of damage? How is that even fair or useful?
Am I reading this wrong? Does anyone actually use this spell? Is this old news and it's been answered so many times that nobody cares any more? Is this thing on? Am I alone here? What is the purpose of life? Get off my lawn! Damn clouds always blocking out the sun! Move on their clouds!
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Basically, whenever the warded character takes damage, they take half and you take the other half. So if they get hit for 16 hp of damage, they take 8 hp of damage (because they have resistance) and you take 8 hp of damage (the same amount as them). It's a nice way to buff up a squishy person in a tight spot. It's also nice because it doesn't require concentration, so you can keep soaking damage to keep a squishy buddy up without having to give up your other tricks. My party has a dwarven life cleric tank who uses this in fights quite a bit because he's got a mountain of HP and the sorcerer does not.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Thank you, Anzio. It is what I would've expected it to be, but in plain English, the description doesn't actually say that. It says, "Also, each time it [the warded creature] takes damage, you take the same amount of damage." That doesn't say half of the damage dealt. It says you take the same amount of damage the warded creature takes, so if the warded creature takes eight damage, you take eight damage. I'm willing to happily accept your interpretation, but I can't help but scratch my ass and wonder why they didn't just say the damage is divided evenly between you? It could be said so much more directly and clearly if that's what they meant.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Once you reach level 11, load it into your Spell Storing Item and have your Steel Defender cast it on you for extreme tankiness.
If they worded it the way you suggest, it would stack with other sources of damage resistance that the target might have, which is not what they wanted the spell to do.
pronouns: he/she/they
But, in wording it in the way they did, it gives the warded creature full damage and the warder full damage. If you don't want it to stack, you just say, it doesn't stack, right?
Jack
In wording it the way they did, it gives the warded creature half damage and the warder half damage. I realize it’s confusing, but that is what it says.
pronouns: he/she/they
"Damage taken" is after all modifiers to damage, not before.
According to the Basic Rules: the order of application for damage is thus
Original damage calculation -> Adjustments (bonuses, penalties, multipliers) -> Resistance -> Vulnerabilities -> Damage taken
In the case of Warding Bond (and no other effects) it's Original damage -> Resistance -> Damage taken
The creature's damage taken is also applied to the caster of Warding Bond, not the original damage.
Note that if the creature under Warding bond has a corresponding Vulnerability (which doubles damage taken), or if the attacker has some ability to ignore Resistance then that would increase the Damage Taken by both the affected creature and the caster. But under normal circumstances its equal to both creatures taking half damage from what the affected creature would normally take.
Of note: +1 to AC and Saving Throws for an hour without costing concentration for a 2nd level spell slot is nothing to sneeze at either. That alone will in effect also reduce the original damage by either making attacks miss the affected creature or making them succeed on saving throws slightly more often.
I'm convinced of your arguments, y'all. But, I'll point out that if the total damage is 8 and both creatures take eight points of damage, then the warder has taken half of the damage because eight is half of sixteen. That's why I say it is poorly worded and could be stated more clearly.
Jack
The +1 to AC and ST and the conference of resistance to all damage are two of the reasons that I wanted to use it, other than taking damage for the warded creature. But, every time I read it, it says "...each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage," which says to me equal amounts of damage, not divided evenly between the two of you. I understand that it is my pendanticism that causes the misinterpretation because who in their right mind would make a spell that doubles the amount of damage a creature takes and gives half of that to another creature has a thank you for trying to protect it and call it a ward? I get it.
Jack
I agree it could be worded more clearly because I have also looked at this spell, thought it was for half damage to each even, and then misread it as full damage to both and dismissed it for myself even having seen it used.
Frankly I'd be okay if it let resistances stack - ie you put it on the thing that is resistant to fire damage, and they end up with a quarter damage and you do too.
It does, in most cases, mean you are splitting the damage, half to the caster and half to the target.
In thinking on it, Foolish, it seems, um, well, foolish to have ever read it any other way, but I just couldn't get past it. Our next session, our squishy druid is going to get a little gift because my battle smith took the tough feat and has a tall stack of HP.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
The spell is also good for keeping squishy NPCs alive that you need to protect through a dangerous area. Let's say you rescue the Prince from captivity, but must fight your way out. You wouldn't want a stray fireball to slay the just rescued Prince when you were so close to rescuing him... Spells like Deathward or Warding Bond or Sanctuary can help keep the squishy folk alive while you fight your way out.
Also, if you are in a tough fight and one of your own party is taking a lot of hits, Warding Bond can help spread the damage out amongst two characters instead of one. This allows both to still make attacks each round, instead of taking one out of the fight to cast healing spells.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.