If I can choose the configuration and locomotion of my Steel Defender, does that mean that I can make it bipedal with a hollow chest cavity so that my gnome artificer can ride in it like a battle mech? 🤣🤣🤣
I had the same idea. Was also going to take mounted combatant and enlarge/reduce. Advantage on all attacks against medium or small creatures, enemy can either attack me, in which case one attack is at disadvantage (from defensive pounce) and I have the shield spell (possibly in a spell-storing item after 11th level to give me 8 casts per long rest - I'd flavor it as a magical point defense system) if I'm taking a lot of attacks, so the enemy is almost forced to target the mount, which I can easily repair (self repair action or mending). Maybe build in a saddle of the cavalier (only an uncommon item) and now attacks against it are at disadvantage. Also, since it's a creature, there's no reason it can't be decked out in magical items as well - it makes sense that the character would be constantly building upgrades to his 'mech (improved armor = cloak of protection, increased strength = gauntlets of ogre power, jump jets = boots of flying, and all available as infusions).
I can see some problems getting the actions dialed in. RAW, the Steel Defender goes after your turn so you won't be able to move before making your attacks, but it can move before attacking. You could make a ranged attack (with either a repeating or throwing-infused weapon so you're still using int for attack and damage and making two attacks from level 5 on) or cast a spell, then use your bonus action to command the SD to attack. Another option would be to use your action to Ready then attack once you're in range. This would only allow you to make one attack but if you manage to get a SCAG cantrip, either via feat or wizard dip then it hurts a bit less (but bear in mind that you wouldn't be able to concentrate on a spell at the same time or use shield).
Also, if you cast enlarge on your mount, only its attacks get an extra d4 of damage. It's also a bit unclear exactly which space your character is in since it takes up 4 squares and you still only take up one. As a DM, I'd personally just let the enlarge spell affect you both since an extra d4 of damage per hit still isn't that much of a boost, especially since you're using concentration, a second level spell, and a feat to pull the combo off. Also, worth noting that RAW, the SD can't grapple since that requires the attack action which the SD cannot take. (Force strike is it's own action, not the Attack action.)
The shield spell has a casting time of one reaction so you cannot store it in a Spell-Storing Item. Also important to remember that mending has a casting time of one minute, so definitely would not recommended casting it mid-combat.
Could put enlarge/reduce in the item, then. Not sure if the SD could use a spell-storing item, RAW. Does an item that requires an action allow the user to take that action? As a DM, I'd allow it since I find the whole concept cool, but not OP. Yeah, mending is out of combat but I still have the repair action for in-combat healing.
I'd rule that if you are using it as a mount, then it follows the mount rules for movement and can move on your turn but forego movement on its own turn. It could then take actions on its turn after yours. Might not be strictly RAW, but is certainly ROC.
Which rules are you looking at? I'm looking at p. 198 of the PHB and it looks like the SD would be an independent mount. It retains it's place in the initiative order (just after your turn) and can move and act independently (according to the actions set out in RftLW).
It is not an intelligent creature, as it requires your BA to take any action other than dodge. So it would follow the mounted combat rules, meaning you control it on your turn. It would still take any command actions after your turn.
Also, I'm just saying this is how I'd allow it to work in my games. If you want to deny a rider the ability to move their mount on their turn, go for it.
Controlling a Mount
While you’re mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.
You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.
Also, worth noting that RAW, the SD can't grapple since that requires the attack action which the SD cannot take. (Force strike is it's own action, not the Attack action.)
Force Empowered Rend is a melee weapon attack, so I'd say it can take the attack action.
Force-Empowered Rend. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target you can see. Hit: 1d8 + 2 force damage.
I think they explicitly left attack off the list of their actions for this reason. They cannot take the attack action but they can take the Force Empowered Rend action which acts as a melee weapon attack. The distinction is fine but I read it to mean that the SD cannot take the action to initiate the grapple. Re-reading the mounted combat rules, I see what you mean. It's still not clear to me, though. It seems like the SD has specific limitations on its actions and specific > general, but then again, does that mean you throw out everything in the mounted combat paragraph? Not sure and there doesn't seem to be a sage advice on it.
Also, worth noting that RAW, the SD can't grapple since that requires the attack action which the SD cannot take. (Force strike is it's own action, not the Attack action.)
Force Empowered Rend is a melee weapon attack, so I'd say it can take the attack action.
Force-Empowered Rend. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target you can see. Hit: 1d8 + 2 force damage.
You take a bonus action to command the SD to Force-Empowered Rend. The SD cannot Force-Empowered Rend on its own.
I think they explicitly left attack off the list of their actions for this reason. They cannot take the attack action but they can take the Force Empowered Rend action which acts as a melee weapon attack. The distinction is fine but I read it to mean that the SD cannot take the action to initiate the grapple. Re-reading the mounted combat rules, I see what you mean. It's still not clear to me, though. It seems like the SD has specific limitations on its actions and specific > general, but then again, does that mean you throw out everything in the mounted combat paragraph? Not sure and there doesn't seem to be a sage advice on it.
An orc only has the actions great-axe and javelin listed, does this mean it can't initiate the grapple? All Monsters stat blocks use the same method of listing what the attack is and don't say attack action.
The Action the SD can take at the expense of the Artificers BA is "Force-Empowered Rend. Melee Weapon Attack" which is a melee attack action and can be used to shove or grapple.
yeah, but if used as a mount, as per the mount rules, you control it's movement as your own, it must have a Int of 4 or lower to use this rule, which the defenders Int is in fact 4, if you build it as a mecha suit, the flying mechanic would be hard to dial in, I gave mine springs in the hind legs, which agreed upon, doubles his jumping ability, adds +5 to his movement and as long as he lands on his feet/makes his saving throw, he has fall damage resistance. I also gave it headlights which if free to turn on and off, though only once per turn, gives off like 120 feet of light but only in a cone. When in the dark this can be used to blind enemies, and in the case of spell's like mirror image, it will reveal they are fake because the mirror images are not solid, meaning the light passes through and casts no shadow, and the same can be said for invisibility spells, light can't pass through solid objects, even in the case of glass there it a notable effect when it does, and so with a good perception check you can even find invisible creatures. Your could likely improve his armor with the DM's approval. You could increase his Str if your were allowed to add in hydrolic's.
To treat it as a mecha suit, you would gain his Dex and Str stats, gain his movement speed, would gain his ability not to be surprised, you would gain his AC, you would take half the damage he takes, and you would gain his reaction, you would keep your Con, Int, Wis, and Cha stats, would keep your proficiencies, while in the suit you would still be able to wield a weapon since it would be in stand up mode, you would gain his size as well, though if you use increase/decrease size you would not grow with him, It would take an action to get into and a bonus action to get out, when his HP drops to 0, you would have to use your bonus action and half your movement to get out. It would be able to use magic items, but I think it's more then fair that it would count towards your attunment slots, which you would gain the effects while inside the defender.
Monsters aren't class features with specific rules on what actions they can take. If it can take the attack action, why not list it in with the other actions? Why not just say you can order it to attack? I'd rule that it can't, but that's just my opinion.
I think I'd just suggest that we house rule it that I can treat its movement as my own but in all other respects it's normal. You could pretty much keep the regular rules and handle the rest with re-flavoring. I'd be attacking with Int instead of Str or Dex anyway since I can pretty much guarantee I'll have a magic weapon - he has a magical link that he uses to control it which is why it can still act even when he's not mounted. I'm thinking runes along the back of his armor that match up to runes in the cockpit. As far as damage goes, because he's linked to the SD he feels pain when it's damaged, which you can use to explain the pilot taking hits.
Monsters aren't class features with specific rules on what actions they can take. If it can take the attack action, why not list it in with the other actions? Why not just say you can order it to attack? I'd rule that it can't, but that's just my opinion.
Force-Empowered Rend is a melee attack that uses the SD's action to perform. Using an action to make an attack would be an attack action.
This is how I interpret the wording unless sage advise states that it was deliberately worded this way so that the steel defender cannot Grapple or Shove.
"When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player's Handbook."
This is from page 10 of the Monster Manual, under the heading "Actions". So yes, RAW a Steel Defender is capable of taking the Attack action needed to initiate a Grapple or Shove attack.
That said, the Steel Defender does also have specific rules governing its actions in combat, and literally Rules-As-Written, the Attack action is not listed among the actions an Artificer can command their SD to take in combat.
I don't really see the point to specifically creating and curating a list of available actions if the Steel Defender can just take any action anyhow.
The fact that they call out the actions individually, including some and omitting others, all under a description of them being "the ONLY" actions available...it has an obvious conclusion.
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If I can choose the configuration and locomotion of my Steel Defender, does that mean that I can make it bipedal with a hollow chest cavity so that my gnome artificer can ride in it like a battle mech? 🤣🤣🤣
I had the same idea. Was also going to take mounted combatant and enlarge/reduce. Advantage on all attacks against medium or small creatures, enemy can either attack me, in which case one attack is at disadvantage (from defensive pounce) and I have the shield spell (possibly in a spell-storing item after 11th level to give me 8 casts per long rest - I'd flavor it as a magical point defense system) if I'm taking a lot of attacks, so the enemy is almost forced to target the mount, which I can easily repair (self repair action or mending). Maybe build in a saddle of the cavalier (only an uncommon item) and now attacks against it are at disadvantage. Also, since it's a creature, there's no reason it can't be decked out in magical items as well - it makes sense that the character would be constantly building upgrades to his 'mech (improved armor = cloak of protection, increased strength = gauntlets of ogre power, jump jets = boots of flying, and all available as infusions).
I can see some problems getting the actions dialed in. RAW, the Steel Defender goes after your turn so you won't be able to move before making your attacks, but it can move before attacking. You could make a ranged attack (with either a repeating or throwing-infused weapon so you're still using int for attack and damage and making two attacks from level 5 on) or cast a spell, then use your bonus action to command the SD to attack. Another option would be to use your action to Ready then attack once you're in range. This would only allow you to make one attack but if you manage to get a SCAG cantrip, either via feat or wizard dip then it hurts a bit less (but bear in mind that you wouldn't be able to concentrate on a spell at the same time or use shield).
Also, if you cast enlarge on your mount, only its attacks get an extra d4 of damage. It's also a bit unclear exactly which space your character is in since it takes up 4 squares and you still only take up one. As a DM, I'd personally just let the enlarge spell affect you both since an extra d4 of damage per hit still isn't that much of a boost, especially since you're using concentration, a second level spell, and a feat to pull the combo off. Also, worth noting that RAW, the SD can't grapple since that requires the attack action which the SD cannot take. (Force strike is it's own action, not the Attack action.)
The shield spell has a casting time of one reaction so you cannot store it in a Spell-Storing Item. Also important to remember that mending has a casting time of one minute, so definitely would not recommended casting it mid-combat.
Could put enlarge/reduce in the item, then. Not sure if the SD could use a spell-storing item, RAW. Does an item that requires an action allow the user to take that action? As a DM, I'd allow it since I find the whole concept cool, but not OP. Yeah, mending is out of combat but I still have the repair action for in-combat healing.
I'd rule that if you are using it as a mount, then it follows the mount rules for movement and can move on your turn but forego movement on its own turn. It could then take actions on its turn after yours. Might not be strictly RAW, but is certainly ROC.
Which rules are you looking at? I'm looking at p. 198 of the PHB and it looks like the SD would be an independent mount. It retains it's place in the initiative order (just after your turn) and can move and act independently (according to the actions set out in RftLW).
It is not an intelligent creature, as it requires your BA to take any action other than dodge. So it would follow the mounted combat rules, meaning you control it on your turn. It would still take any command actions after your turn.
Also, I'm just saying this is how I'd allow it to work in my games. If you want to deny a rider the ability to move their mount on their turn, go for it.
Controlling a Mount
While you’re mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.
You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.
Force Empowered Rend is a melee weapon attack, so I'd say it can take the attack action.
Force-Empowered Rend. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target you can see. Hit: 1d8 + 2 force damage.
Hmmmn, a hollwo Steel Defender . . .
Maybe design to be worn like a suit of armor . . . I can see possibilities.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I think they explicitly left attack off the list of their actions for this reason. They cannot take the attack action but they can take the Force Empowered Rend action which acts as a melee weapon attack. The distinction is fine but I read it to mean that the SD cannot take the action to initiate the grapple. Re-reading the mounted combat rules, I see what you mean. It's still not clear to me, though. It seems like the SD has specific limitations on its actions and specific > general, but then again, does that mean you throw out everything in the mounted combat paragraph? Not sure and there doesn't seem to be a sage advice on it.
You take a bonus action to command the SD to Force-Empowered Rend. The SD cannot Force-Empowered Rend on its own.
I’m going to try this in a friend’s Ravnica game. He’s restricting us to races within Ravnica. I’m gonna go Goblin and see how it goes.
An orc only has the actions great-axe and javelin listed, does this mean it can't initiate the grapple?
All Monsters stat blocks use the same method of listing what the attack is and don't say attack action.
The Action the SD can take at the expense of the Artificers BA is "Force-Empowered Rend. Melee Weapon Attack" which is a melee attack action and can be used to shove or grapple.
yeah, but if used as a mount, as per the mount rules, you control it's movement as your own, it must have a Int of 4 or lower to use this rule, which the defenders Int is in fact 4, if you build it as a mecha suit, the flying mechanic would be hard to dial in, I gave mine springs in the hind legs, which agreed upon, doubles his jumping ability, adds +5 to his movement and as long as he lands on his feet/makes his saving throw, he has fall damage resistance. I also gave it headlights which if free to turn on and off, though only once per turn, gives off like 120 feet of light but only in a cone. When in the dark this can be used to blind enemies, and in the case of spell's like mirror image, it will reveal they are fake because the mirror images are not solid, meaning the light passes through and casts no shadow, and the same can be said for invisibility spells, light can't pass through solid objects, even in the case of glass there it a notable effect when it does, and so with a good perception check you can even find invisible creatures. Your could likely improve his armor with the DM's approval. You could increase his Str if your were allowed to add in hydrolic's.
To treat it as a mecha suit, you would gain his Dex and Str stats, gain his movement speed, would gain his ability not to be surprised, you would gain his AC, you would take half the damage he takes, and you would gain his reaction, you would keep your Con, Int, Wis, and Cha stats, would keep your proficiencies, while in the suit you would still be able to wield a weapon since it would be in stand up mode, you would gain his size as well, though if you use increase/decrease size you would not grow with him, It would take an action to get into and a bonus action to get out, when his HP drops to 0, you would have to use your bonus action and half your movement to get out. It would be able to use magic items, but I think it's more then fair that it would count towards your attunment slots, which you would gain the effects while inside the defender.
Monsters aren't class features with specific rules on what actions they can take. If it can take the attack action, why not list it in with the other actions? Why not just say you can order it to attack? I'd rule that it can't, but that's just my opinion.
I think I'd just suggest that we house rule it that I can treat its movement as my own but in all other respects it's normal. You could pretty much keep the regular rules and handle the rest with re-flavoring. I'd be attacking with Int instead of Str or Dex anyway since I can pretty much guarantee I'll have a magic weapon - he has a magical link that he uses to control it which is why it can still act even when he's not mounted. I'm thinking runes along the back of his armor that match up to runes in the cockpit. As far as damage goes, because he's linked to the SD he feels pain when it's damaged, which you can use to explain the pilot taking hits.
Force-Empowered Rend is a melee attack that uses the SD's action to perform. Using an action to make an attack would be an attack action.
This is how I interpret the wording unless sage advise states that it was deliberately worded this way so that the steel defender cannot Grapple or Shove.
"When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player's Handbook."
This is from page 10 of the Monster Manual, under the heading "Actions". So yes, RAW a Steel Defender is capable of taking the Attack action needed to initiate a Grapple or Shove attack.
That said, the Steel Defender does also have specific rules governing its actions in combat, and literally Rules-As-Written, the Attack action is not listed among the actions an Artificer can command their SD to take in combat.
So idk, house-rule it I guess?
I don't really see the point to specifically creating and curating a list of available actions if the Steel Defender can just take any action anyhow.
The fact that they call out the actions individually, including some and omitting others, all under a description of them being "the ONLY" actions available...it has an obvious conclusion.