So regarding Flash of Genius, it doesn't come with the usual timing constraint* that other abilities like have, e.g. Cutting Word. Does this mean the Artificer can wait til they hear the result to tack their +4/5 onto it a roll? Or are we just assuming they meant for it to be the same as the others and they maybe forgot to write it in there?
*"You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the atlack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals it's damage"
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
So regarding Flash of Genius, it doesn't come with the usual timing constraint* that other abilities like have, e.g. Cutting Word. Does this mean the Artificer can wait til they hear the result to tack their +4/5 onto it a roll? Or are we just assuming they meant for it to be the same as the others and they maybe forgot to write it in there?
*"You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the atlack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals it's damage"
Depends what you take as your default, most people actually think this means you have to declare Flash of Genius before even rolling the dice.
So regarding Flash of Genius, it doesn't come with the usual timing constraint* that other abilities like have, e.g. Cutting Word. Does this mean the Artificer can wait til they hear the result to tack their +4/5 onto it a roll? Or are we just assuming they meant for it to be the same as the others and they maybe forgot to write it in there?
*"You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the atlack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals it's damage"
Depends what you take as your default, most people actually think this means you have to declare Flash of Genius before even rolling the dice.
Oh yeah, to be clear, as a DM myself and player, I'm inclined to be as the player is declaring an ability check, enacting a saving throw and before dice is rolled. Like, "here, let me help with that" or "get down it's gonna blow!" There's arules nazi in both a group I DM and a group I play in, so Im just curious I havent missed anything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think most people wil declare before-jut out of habbit and timing. Though most people who play Online willl ikely be using it the way I do-after you see rolls. (also in perseon games in my past, we also rolled openl cause no real reason not to)
but I think its meant to be done before damage is rolled-like shield sorta. Most peole don't require you to guess before you hear the roll (or at least a description). though others do that differently I guess (having to guess before you know know roughly).
I'm in the camp that it doesn't carry the restriction and its flavored as a flash of brilliance. I.e. you see whats happening and make a choice. it doesn't have to be you shouting out or giving advice. It could be fluffed in any way really. Throwing fluff item that causes a snap distracting the fow. or you realize the design of this trap has a double layer and you just kick the rogue out of the way, or jam your shield in etc
Furthe reason I think is the range is: its considerably higher level. The range is half. The pool won't refresh-where as bardic inspiration will at the same level (restore on a short or long rest compared to just long) Doesn't have the wording for restricting on timing Flash also doesn't require the other person to know you exist-where as cutting words require auditory stuff. Strictly speaking flash can probably be done in hidden "magical item" ways
So i have several questions that i can't seem to find an answer for...
1. What kinds of magical items need attunement? I am not looking for a list. I am looking for criteria. As in, what conditions or what power level or what sort of magical items need attunement as opposed to those items that don't?
2. What are the rules or process for creating magical items of different types? Charges per day vs infinite use... runs out or not... When would an item get destroyed or not... can items be given to others and survives the ages... (why do they only last while the artificer is still alive?)
3. If Artificers can only learn to infuse 5th level spells, then how could you even be able to create legendary items? Let's say that as a level 20 artificer, as legendary as it gets, and you still can't create items that have spells from higher spells slots? How are some of the items that are currently in the list even created in the first place? Were they created by something that had a higher level than level 20? If not, why can't the Artificer create these items by the time they reach level 20?
* Here is how i see the artificer, they can perform all the spells as rituals, but can't cast many outright. So they can create ammo. For example, they can create a fireball pebble... infuse the stone with fireball and when they throw it, it produces the fireball spell and then gets used up, but they can't actually cast the fireball in battle themselves (at least not that many). They need to create their ammo in advance. So have limited ability to cast (limited number of slots available) but can relatively easily create items that hold one spell (spell level depends on their level). Multiple charges are harder. Infinite or permanent effects are the hardest. But it should be possible, say by level 14 or so - the latest. But the ability to cast spells as a ritual should be about the same as a wizard's ability to cast them as a spell. They have fewer casting slots, sure, but can still do higher level spells as a ritual to infuse into the other items. Would that really break the game?
... 1. What kinds of magical items need attunement? I am not looking for a list. I am looking for criteria. As in, what conditions or what power level or what sort of magical items need attunement as opposed to those items that don't? ...
Attunement, in general, has three criteria. Meeting any one of them is enough to require attunement.
1.) The item has an active ability that is controlled or invoked by the wielder's will, whether via mental command, command word, or simply 'as an action'. If the item needs to affect an individual or do an active thing, it generally needs attunement to recognize the individual it's supposed to affect or the individual allowed to tell it to do stuff. This includes any item which allows its wielder to cast a spell or invoke a spell-like effect.
2.) The item has an otherwise stackable effect. The design team for 5e despises effect stacking with the blazing, furious fervor of ten thousand Mongol invaders; anything with an otherwise easily stacked up effect will require attunement. The classic example is the Ring/Cloak of Protection, which is an entirely passive bonus. The only reason Things of Protection all require attunement is to avoid stacking them up. Attunement was specifically built to deal with this stacking issue; the other 'bonuses' of attunement were happy accident.
3.) The item is powerful enough that its developer decided attunement was a fair price to pay for its use. As Chaos noted, almost everything of VR or higher will require attunement even if it doesn't meet the two normal criteria simply because it's supposed to be very powerful. The exception is consumable items, which to my knowledge never require attunement. Even 'legendary' consumables, which is just a cheap shot in general, but still. The only exceptions are items with single specific, narrowly-defined uses that do not require input from the character, such as Dimensional Shackles.
There's exceptions to these rules, but as a general note anything that you actively command or invoke requires attunement, as does anything that provides an additive/stackable bonus to literally anything. Also anything strong enough that it feels like it should. Typically only minor items with specific, niche-y uses and consumables are allowed to forego attunement.
So regarding Flash of Genius, it doesn't come with the usual timing constraint* that other abilities like have, e.g. Cutting Word. Does this mean the Artificer can wait til they hear the result to tack their +4/5 onto it a roll? Or are we just assuming they meant for it to be the same as the others and they maybe forgot to write it in there?
*"You can choose to use this feature after the creature makes its roll, but before the DM determines whether the atlack roll or ability check succeeds or fails, or before the creature deals it's damage"
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
Depends what you take as your default, most people actually think this means you have to declare Flash of Genius before even rolling the dice.
Oh yeah, to be clear, as a DM myself and player, I'm inclined to be as the player is declaring an ability check, enacting a saving throw and before dice is rolled. Like, "here, let me help with that" or "get down it's gonna blow!" There's arules nazi in both a group I DM and a group I play in, so Im just curious I havent missed anything.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think most people wil declare before-jut out of habbit and timing. Though most people who play Online willl ikely be using it the way I do-after you see rolls. (also in perseon games in my past, we also rolled openl cause no real reason not to)
but I think its meant to be done before damage is rolled-like shield sorta. Most peole don't require you to guess before you hear the roll (or at least a description). though others do that differently I guess (having to guess before you know know roughly).
I'm in the camp that it doesn't carry the restriction and its flavored as a flash of brilliance. I.e. you see whats happening and make a choice. it doesn't have to be you shouting out or giving advice. It could be fluffed in any way really. Throwing fluff item that causes a snap distracting the fow.
or you realize the design of this trap has a double layer and you just kick the rogue out of the way, or jam your shield in etc
Furthe reason I think is the range is:
its considerably higher level.
The range is half.
The pool won't refresh-where as bardic inspiration will at the same level (restore on a short or long rest compared to just long)
Doesn't have the wording for restricting on timing
Flash also doesn't require the other person to know you exist-where as cutting words require auditory stuff. Strictly speaking flash can probably be done in hidden "magical item" ways
So i have several questions that i can't seem to find an answer for...
1. What kinds of magical items need attunement? I am not looking for a list. I am looking for criteria. As in, what conditions or what power level or what sort of magical items need attunement as opposed to those items that don't?
2. What are the rules or process for creating magical items of different types? Charges per day vs infinite use... runs out or not... When would an item get destroyed or not... can items be given to others and survives the ages... (why do they only last while the artificer is still alive?)
3. If Artificers can only learn to infuse 5th level spells, then how could you even be able to create legendary items? Let's say that as a level 20 artificer, as legendary as it gets, and you still can't create items that have spells from higher spells slots? How are some of the items that are currently in the list even created in the first place? Were they created by something that had a higher level than level 20? If not, why can't the Artificer create these items by the time they reach level 20?
* Here is how i see the artificer, they can perform all the spells as rituals, but can't cast many outright. So they can create ammo. For example, they can create a fireball pebble... infuse the stone with fireball and when they throw it, it produces the fireball spell and then gets used up, but they can't actually cast the fireball in battle themselves (at least not that many). They need to create their ammo in advance. So have limited ability to cast (limited number of slots available) but can relatively easily create items that hold one spell (spell level depends on their level). Multiple charges are harder. Infinite or permanent effects are the hardest. But it should be possible, say by level 14 or so - the latest. But the ability to cast spells as a ritual should be about the same as a wizard's ability to cast them as a spell. They have fewer casting slots, sure, but can still do higher level spells as a ritual to infuse into the other items. Would that really break the game?
Next time, consider starting a new thread to ask these questions, rather than resurrecting a dead one entirely unrelated to your topic.
Anyways.
Attunement, in general, has three criteria. Meeting any one of them is enough to require attunement.
1.) The item has an active ability that is controlled or invoked by the wielder's will, whether via mental command, command word, or simply 'as an action'. If the item needs to affect an individual or do an active thing, it generally needs attunement to recognize the individual it's supposed to affect or the individual allowed to tell it to do stuff. This includes any item which allows its wielder to cast a spell or invoke a spell-like effect.
2.) The item has an otherwise stackable effect. The design team for 5e despises effect stacking with the blazing, furious fervor of ten thousand Mongol invaders; anything with an otherwise easily stacked up effect will require attunement. The classic example is the Ring/Cloak of Protection, which is an entirely passive bonus. The only reason Things of Protection all require attunement is to avoid stacking them up. Attunement was specifically built to deal with this stacking issue; the other 'bonuses' of attunement were happy accident.
3.) The item is powerful enough that its developer decided attunement was a fair price to pay for its use. As Chaos noted, almost everything of VR or higher will require attunement even if it doesn't meet the two normal criteria simply because it's supposed to be very powerful. The exception is consumable items, which to my knowledge never require attunement. Even 'legendary' consumables, which is just a cheap shot in general, but still. The only exceptions are items with single specific, narrowly-defined uses that do not require input from the character, such as Dimensional Shackles.
There's exceptions to these rules, but as a general note anything that you actively command or invoke requires attunement, as does anything that provides an additive/stackable bonus to literally anything. Also anything strong enough that it feels like it should. Typically only minor items with specific, niche-y uses and consumables are allowed to forego attunement.
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