Hey guys, I'm unfortunately playing an artificer alchemist and have one in my current group I'm running. I was hoping to get you opinions on a couple of tweaks for the subclass. The lack of damage is sorely disappointing and I was hoping to help remedy it with this. I personally think that the alchemist should have a variety of damage type options and alchemy savant does add to this as well.
Experimental potion is a bonus action to create (this is because doing it as an action kinda messes with the action economy)
Proficient in improvised weapons
You can throw an experimental potion as an improvised weapon and has one of the following effects, if made by a spell slot choose the effect, all saves are the save DC:
1) Poison potion: 2d8 poison damage and the creature makes a con save, on a failed save be poison 2) Endothermic salve: 2d6 cold damage and movement is halved 3) Flask of Acid: 2d6 acid damage and the creature must make a con save, on a failed save it's AC is reduced by 1 4) Combustible material: 2d6 fire damage, on the next turn the creature takes 1d6 damage unless the fire is put out which takes an action. Lasts for 1 minute. 5) Flash Flask: 3d4 radiant damage and the creature must make a con save or be blinded. 6) Necrosis: 1d8 necrotic damage and has disadvantage on the next saving throw.
I also wanted the experimental potion to scale with higher spell slots usage. Does anyone have any suggestions?
EDIT I'm going to keep up my original list but I decided that balancing damage was too much especially when it came to expending spell slots so I basically made a debuff list that is a close inverse to the original. I also gave proficiency in improvised weapons with potion being improvised weapons. For the effect the potion must hit the target and there are no saves.
New List: 1) Necrosis: Does 2d4 + Intelligence modifier necrotic damage 2) Impeded: Reduces a targets speed by half for ten minutes. 3) Weaken: Targets AC is lowered by -1 a minute 4) Unnerve: Saving throws are reduced by 1d4 for 1minute 5) Reduce: Any melee or ranged attack is reduced by 1d6 for the next attack 6) Afflict: Blind, Deafen or Poison a target.
Reading it without putting much thought: right off the bat, I’d only ever use Flash Flask if I had these options and was playing an Alchemist. It seems the strongest by far. I’m sorry to say I’m not much help beyond that as I don’t know the alchemist very well.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I don't think the experimental potions need to be for damage. They add some unique utility as is and they can be recreated easily enough by dropping level 1 spell slots. How many classes can fly so early on in levels? Not so many. And they get even better at higher levels, adding the temp HP to anyone that drinks it. That'll start to stack pretty well. Heal/improved AC + temp HP is pretty darn good when you give it to a raging barbarian. And +d4 to all attacks/saves + temp HP? That's so good when given to a fighter or a monk with a ton of attacks. The elixirs also have long durations and don't require concentration. So good.
Alchemist is not the big/blasty damage dealing subclass - artillerist is. Alchemist is utility. What you propose is 6 different ways to add damage dice. I think that's unnecessary and to be frank, kind of boring.
At fifth level you're doing 2d10 + int dmg with Firebolt. Pretty solid for a utility character, tbh.
I am playing an Alchemist in a game now and love it.
The Experimental Elixir is dog shyte, and Wizards should feel bad for printing it. That said, turning the elixirs into bombs doesn't strike me as the right way. Hmm.
Your given list is basically an enormously better Chromatic Orb; the damage is mildly lower but the secondary effects are very potent. That seems thematic to a point, but I can guarantee your Alchemist(s) would end up doing nothing but spamming these with all their available spell slots. Seems a bit much.
I haven't had time to iron it out since life has been particularly kick-the-Yurei lately, but I've been pondering my own revision for the Experimental Elixir ability, since it is just so utterly gobshyte that it kinda ruins the entire Alchemist subclass. A few ideas I've had, as possible brainstorming points for your own fixes. Note that one of my goals with these, and with any homebrew I do, is to preserve the original intent and to do as little damage to the original rules as possible, so I'm not trying to replace Experimental Elixir (even though it's nigh-unsalvageably awful) so much as just...make it slightly less putrid for someone interested in playing the subclass anyways.
-You can create the randomized elixir at the end of a short rest, as well as a long rest. -You may create an elixir with a specific effect by spending ten minutes with your alchemist's supplies, during which time you carefully gauge and tinker with the formula for your elixir in order to create precisely the brew you need (effectively, you can create an elixir with a ritual cast as well as by burning a spell slot). -When you expend a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to create an Experimental Elixir, the elixir you create is especially potent. The elixir has a number of doses equivalent to the level of the spell slot used to create it, and its effects can be gained by consuming one dose of the elixir.
For scaling with spell slot level, I like giving more slicers at higher level, eg. Use a 3rd level slot get 3 elixirs.
I also suggested previously to allow multiple drinking of the buff elixirs with one action stacking, using the current rules for scaling number of potions. Ie. You can spend a 3rd level slot to make 3 flight potions and drink all 3 to get 30ft flight speed which is close to 3rd level fly spell.
I agree with what people are say when they say that the Experimental Elixir shouldn't be for damage because the subclass is not for damage. If you want to use potions for the damage just play an Artillerist and re-flavor the magical effects and your spells to be something like a potion launcher or what have you.
That being said, i really do like the way you went where you are more of a enemy-debuffing support than an ally-buffing support, i really feel like it should be an option at least somewhere in this class because 5e has enough of the buffing classes and not that many classes that focus on debuffing (for people other than themselves). A few notes;
-The armor debuff and saving throw debuff would be more effective if combined, because individually they can be more situation than they initially seem and if its random thats not gonna be fun
-For afflict you may want to either specify you get to choose upon creation, or add a forth condition and make a roll
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Hey guys, I'm unfortunately playing an artificer alchemist and have one in my current group I'm running. I was hoping to get you opinions on a couple of tweaks for the subclass. The lack of damage is sorely disappointing and I was hoping to help remedy it with this. I personally think that the alchemist should have a variety of damage type options and alchemy savant does add to this as well.
Experimental potion is a bonus action to create (this is because doing it as an action kinda messes with the action economy)
Proficient in improvised weapons
You can throw an experimental potion as an improvised weapon and has one of the following effects, if made by a spell slot choose the effect, all saves are the save DC:
1) Poison potion: 2d8 poison damage and the creature makes a con save, on a failed save be poison
2) Endothermic salve: 2d6 cold damage and movement is halved
3) Flask of Acid: 2d6 acid damage and the creature must make a con save, on a failed save it's AC is reduced by 1
4) Combustible material: 2d6 fire damage, on the next turn the creature takes 1d6 damage unless the fire is put out which takes an action. Lasts for 1 minute.
5) Flash Flask: 3d4 radiant damage and the creature must make a con save or be blinded.
6) Necrosis: 1d8 necrotic damage and has disadvantage on the next saving throw.
I also wanted the experimental potion to scale with higher spell slots usage. Does anyone have any suggestions?
EDIT I'm going to keep up my original list but I decided that balancing damage was too much especially when it came to expending spell slots so I basically made a debuff list that is a close inverse to the original. I also gave proficiency in improvised weapons with potion being improvised weapons. For the effect the potion must hit the target and there are no saves.
New List:
1) Necrosis: Does 2d4 + Intelligence modifier necrotic damage
2) Impeded: Reduces a targets speed by half for ten minutes.
3) Weaken: Targets AC is lowered by -1 a minute
4) Unnerve: Saving throws are reduced by 1d4 for 1minute
5) Reduce: Any melee or ranged attack is reduced by 1d6 for the next attack
6) Afflict: Blind, Deafen or Poison a target.
Reading it without putting much thought: right off the bat, I’d only ever use Flash Flask if I had these options and was playing an Alchemist. It seems the strongest by far. I’m sorry to say I’m not much help beyond that as I don’t know the alchemist very well.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I don't think the experimental potions need to be for damage. They add some unique utility as is and they can be recreated easily enough by dropping level 1 spell slots. How many classes can fly so early on in levels? Not so many. And they get even better at higher levels, adding the temp HP to anyone that drinks it. That'll start to stack pretty well. Heal/improved AC + temp HP is pretty darn good when you give it to a raging barbarian. And +d4 to all attacks/saves + temp HP? That's so good when given to a fighter or a monk with a ton of attacks. The elixirs also have long durations and don't require concentration. So good.
Alchemist is not the big/blasty damage dealing subclass - artillerist is. Alchemist is utility. What you propose is 6 different ways to add damage dice. I think that's unnecessary and to be frank, kind of boring.
At fifth level you're doing 2d10 + int dmg with Firebolt. Pretty solid for a utility character, tbh.
I am playing an Alchemist in a game now and love it.
The Experimental Elixir is dog shyte, and Wizards should feel bad for printing it. That said, turning the elixirs into bombs doesn't strike me as the right way. Hmm.
Your given list is basically an enormously better Chromatic Orb; the damage is mildly lower but the secondary effects are very potent. That seems thematic to a point, but I can guarantee your Alchemist(s) would end up doing nothing but spamming these with all their available spell slots. Seems a bit much.
I haven't had time to iron it out since life has been particularly kick-the-Yurei lately, but I've been pondering my own revision for the Experimental Elixir ability, since it is just so utterly gobshyte that it kinda ruins the entire Alchemist subclass. A few ideas I've had, as possible brainstorming points for your own fixes. Note that one of my goals with these, and with any homebrew I do, is to preserve the original intent and to do as little damage to the original rules as possible, so I'm not trying to replace Experimental Elixir (even though it's nigh-unsalvageably awful) so much as just...make it slightly less putrid for someone interested in playing the subclass anyways.
-You can create the randomized elixir at the end of a short rest, as well as a long rest.
-You may create an elixir with a specific effect by spending ten minutes with your alchemist's supplies, during which time you carefully gauge and tinker with the formula for your elixir in order to create precisely the brew you need (effectively, you can create an elixir with a ritual cast as well as by burning a spell slot).
-When you expend a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to create an Experimental Elixir, the elixir you create is especially potent. The elixir has a number of doses equivalent to the level of the spell slot used to create it, and its effects can be gained by consuming one dose of the elixir.
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For scaling with spell slot level, I like giving more slicers at higher level, eg. Use a 3rd level slot get 3 elixirs.
I also suggested previously to allow multiple drinking of the buff elixirs with one action stacking, using the current rules for scaling number of potions. Ie. You can spend a 3rd level slot to make 3 flight potions and drink all 3 to get 30ft flight speed which is close to 3rd level fly spell.
After much deliberation, I decided to do a much simpler list with a somewhat inverse approach to the benefits list. Let me know what you guys think.
I agree with what people are say when they say that the Experimental Elixir shouldn't be for damage because the subclass is not for damage. If you want to use potions for the damage just play an Artillerist and re-flavor the magical effects and your spells to be something like a potion launcher or what have you.
That being said, i really do like the way you went where you are more of a enemy-debuffing support than an ally-buffing support, i really feel like it should be an option at least somewhere in this class because 5e has enough of the buffing classes and not that many classes that focus on debuffing (for people other than themselves). A few notes;
-The armor debuff and saving throw debuff would be more effective if combined, because individually they can be more situation than they initially seem and if its random thats not gonna be fun
-For afflict you may want to either specify you get to choose upon creation, or add a forth condition and make a roll