SSI: While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it's been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
Rage: If you are able to cast Spells, you can't cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
How do people read these regarding using SSI during rage?
It seems to me that a Raging Barbarian can "produce the spell's effect from it" as it does not state "cast the spell from it."
However about concentrating, you could use the same argument "If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate" on the effect. or could be concentrate on the spell.
I think they can "produce" the spell. The use of produce versus cast is intentional. But, I don't think they can concentrate. I don't think they can concentrate on them though.
This is how I would rule it within my game, at least:
The Barbarian can produce the spell, but if the spell requires concentration the Barbarian cannot maintain concentration. My reasoning is because there are two restrictions within the Rage feature regarding spells:
1) If you are able to cast spells, you can't cast spells while Raging. 2) While raging you cannot concentrate on a spell.
The spell storing item circumvents the first restriction, by stating that the creature "produces" the spell's effect from the Spell Storing Item. The Spell Storing Item, however, doesn't alleviate the need to concentrate on the spell if the spell requires concentration. So the Barbarian would be unable to concentrate if the spell required it.
I imagine that Wizards used the phrase "produce the spell's effect" very deliberately, but that wording leaves a lot open-ended. A raging barbarian can "Produce the spell's effect", despite that feeling like rules dickery. A character can "Produce the spell's effect" in a Silence bubble, because 'producing the spell's effect' is not casting the spell, and there is no requirement to provide spell components for 'producing the effect' of a spell instead of casting it. Counterspell can't stop an SSI, because "producing a spell" isn't casting a spell, and so does not fullfil the trigger condition for Counterspell. 'Producing the spell's effect' does not trigger Mage Slayer's reaction attack, either. So on and so forth.
If the item is something compact and natural to have in hand, i.e. a ring, then the player effectively gets the benefit of ten Subtle Spell casts of whatever it is that was stored without having to expend any resources save SSI ammo. That feels like maybe it's a bit much, but it is a higher-level feature of the class. Giving it to the barbarian almost seems a waste, once you realize that SSI as written is basically ten completely unstoppable, unblockable casts of whatever you like within the spell level restrictions.
Another interesting note, correct me if I am wrong, but the Spell Storing Item appears to circumvent the material components required to cast certain spells. For example, Arcane Lock requires 25 gp worth of gold dust. But if you store Magic Mouth within your spell storing item, you can produce the effect of Magic Mouth without requiring the gold dust.
By RAW, that appears so. Producing a spell isn't casting it, and you only need to provide components when you cast a spell. It's Wish Lite; you just get the effects of the spell, not any of the trauma associated with casting it. It is more rules dickery though, and makes me leer some more at SSI. Never particularly cared for that ability, 3.5e be damned.
I know my Mammon tiefling makes absolutely rude use of her once-a-day free cast of Arcane Lock tho, that spell becomes astonishingly useful when it doesn't kill 25gp per cast.
By RAW, that appears so. Producing a spell isn't casting it, and you only need to provide components when you cast a spell. It's Wish Lite; you just get the effects of the spell, not any of the trauma associated with casting it. It is more rules dickery though, and makes me leer some more at SSI. Never particularly cared for that ability, 3.5e be damned.
I know my Mammon tiefling makes absolutely rude use of her once-a-day free cast of Arcane Lock tho, that spell becomes astonishingly useful when it doesn't kill 25gp per cast.
Then imagine having 10 free castings of Arcane Lock...
Another interesting note, correct me if I am wrong, but the Spell Storing Item appears to circumvent the material components required to cast certain spells. For example, Arcane Lock requires 25 gp worth of gold dust. But if you store Magic Mouth within your spell storing item, you can produce the effect of Magic Mouth without requiring the gold dust.
That's how I read it too. Continual Flame is a good downtime choice for SSI for a level 11+ Artificer to make a living crafting and selling lanterns that never require fuel. 10 times per day over a 100 day period and you can turn a bag of ball bearings into a bag of 1000 lamps. Use them to haggle with merchants especially ones without easy access to magical lighting.
That's how I read it too. Continual Flame is a good downtime choice for SSI for a level 11+ Artificer to make a living crafting and selling lanterns that never require fuel. 10 times per day over a 100 day period and you can turn a bag of ball bearings into a bag of 1000 lamps. Use them to haggle with merchants especially ones without easy access to magical lighting.
That is essentially what an Everbright Lantern is. In fact, it even says within the magical item that it is a lantern containing a dragonshard that sheds light comparable to the Continual Flame spell.
So purchase a bunch of ball bearings and some hooded lanterns, remove the wick and oil system (convert those into molotov cocktails for combat use) within them and instead place a ball bearing inside with the Continual Flame spell enchanted on it. Viola! You've got yourself an Everbright Lantern and one molotov cocktail.
A hooded lantern costs 5 gps each, and 1000 ball bearings cost 1 gps. And an Everbright Lantern is a common magical item, which sells for anywhere between 50 to 100 gps. Obviously you have to worry about flooding the market with supply and demand, but there is definitely a way to make some money there.
As a DM, I would probably rule that the artificer needs to expend the materials for the spell when they generate the SSI for the day, i.e. using Arcane Lock or Continual Flame as your SSI requires you to expend 25gp of gold dust or 50gp of ruby dust. That would definitely be a house rule though, and even then all that does is gate the rampant profiteering behind a basic overhead. Getting ten casts out of one expenditure of resources is still ridiculously resource efficient, but it dissuades players from overly cheesing spells to, as said, set up a Lantern Emporium and mercantile-success their way out of being adventurers.
RAW, nothing is stopping the players from doing exactly that, but I'd probably have to figure out a reason why nobody else in the world has ever made a killing off of a nigh-infinite supply of everburning lanterns or magical password locks, and thus why the players need to keep playing D&D instead of saying "we retire to our super-lucrative lanternmaking business and spend the next few years cornering the lighting market in Faerun."
By RAW, that appears so. Producing a spell isn't casting it, and you only need to provide components when you cast a spell. It's Wish Lite; you just get the effects of the spell, not any of the trauma associated with casting it. It is more rules dickery though, and makes me leer some more at SSI. Never particularly cared for that ability, 3.5e be damned.
I know my Mammon tiefling makes absolutely rude use of her once-a-day free cast of Arcane Lock tho, that spell becomes astonishingly useful when it doesn't kill 25gp per cast.
Then imagine having 10 free castings of Arcane Lock...
In order to store the spell someone must cast it into the item, therefore requiring the components for the spell at that time.
eg- Reserve Ioun Stone: (DMG p177)
Reserve (Rare). This vibrant purple prism stores spells cast into it, holding them until you use them. The stone can store up to 3 levels worth of spells at a time. When found, it contains ld4 - 1 levels of stored spells chosen by the DM. Any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 3rd level into the stone by touching it as the spell is cast. The spell has no effect, other than to be stored in the stone. If the stone can't hold the spell, the spell is expended without effect. The level of the slot used to cast the spell determines how much space it uses. While this stone orbits your head, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. The spell cast from the stone is no longer stored in it, freeing up space.”
Then imagine having 10 free castings of Arcane Lock...
In order to store the spell someone must cast it into the item, therefore requiring the components for the spell at that time.
eg- Reserve Ioun Stone: (DMG p177)
Reserve (Rare). This vibrant purple prism stores spells cast into it, holding them until you use them. The stone can store up to 3 levels worth of spells at a time. When found, it contains ld4 - 1 levels of stored spells chosen by the DM. Any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 3rd level into the stone by touching it as the spell is cast. The spell has no effect, other than to be stored in the stone. If the stone can't hold the spell, the spell is expended without effect. The level of the slot used to cast the spell determines how much space it uses. While this stone orbits your head, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. The spell cast from the stone is no longer stored in it, freeing up space.”
Not sure why you are referencing a different magical item that has no bearing on the the Artificer's Spell Storing Item class feature. That feature states that:
At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn’t have it prepared).
While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it’s been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
The artificer doesn't even need to have prepared the spell to store it into the Spell Storing Item. Further more, the Spell Storing Item class feature only uses the term "cast" once, and that is in referring to the restriction on the casting time requirements for being a valid spell to store.
The components (Material, Verbal, Somatic) for a spell are a requirement that must be met in order to cast said spell. Since the Spell Storing Item does not cast the spell and instead "produces the spell's effect", it circumvents these component requirements entirely.
Nope, at least not for the Spell Storing Item. Now the Reserve Ioun Stone magical item does require them to cast the spell to store it, but they are two different features with two distinct rules.
How do people read these regarding using SSI during rage?
It seems to me that a Raging Barbarian can "produce the spell's effect from it" as it does not state "cast the spell from it."
However about concentrating, you could use the same argument "If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate" on the effect. or could be concentrate on the spell.
I think they can "produce" the spell. The use of produce versus cast is intentional. But, I don't think they can concentrate. I don't think they can concentrate on them though.
The object uses the spell, not the barbarian so as long as it isn't a concentration spell it should be okay!
At least thats the way I am reading it.
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This is how I would rule it within my game, at least:
The Barbarian can produce the spell, but if the spell requires concentration the Barbarian cannot maintain concentration. My reasoning is because there are two restrictions within the Rage feature regarding spells:
1) If you are able to cast spells, you can't cast spells while Raging.
2) While raging you cannot concentrate on a spell.
The spell storing item circumvents the first restriction, by stating that the creature "produces" the spell's effect from the Spell Storing Item. The Spell Storing Item, however, doesn't alleviate the need to concentrate on the spell if the spell requires concentration. So the Barbarian would be unable to concentrate if the spell required it.
It's a bit of a grey area.
I imagine that Wizards used the phrase "produce the spell's effect" very deliberately, but that wording leaves a lot open-ended. A raging barbarian can "Produce the spell's effect", despite that feeling like rules dickery. A character can "Produce the spell's effect" in a Silence bubble, because 'producing the spell's effect' is not casting the spell, and there is no requirement to provide spell components for 'producing the effect' of a spell instead of casting it. Counterspell can't stop an SSI, because "producing a spell" isn't casting a spell, and so does not fullfil the trigger condition for Counterspell. 'Producing the spell's effect' does not trigger Mage Slayer's reaction attack, either. So on and so forth.
If the item is something compact and natural to have in hand, i.e. a ring, then the player effectively gets the benefit of ten Subtle Spell casts of whatever it is that was stored without having to expend any resources save SSI ammo. That feels like maybe it's a bit much, but it is a higher-level feature of the class. Giving it to the barbarian almost seems a waste, once you realize that SSI as written is basically ten completely unstoppable, unblockable casts of whatever you like within the spell level restrictions.
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Another interesting note, correct me if I am wrong, but the Spell Storing Item appears to circumvent the material components required to cast certain spells. For example, Arcane Lock requires 25 gp worth of gold dust. But if you store Magic Mouth within your spell storing item, you can produce the effect of Magic Mouth without requiring the gold dust.
By RAW, that appears so. Producing a spell isn't casting it, and you only need to provide components when you cast a spell. It's Wish Lite; you just get the effects of the spell, not any of the trauma associated with casting it. It is more rules dickery though, and makes me leer some more at SSI. Never particularly cared for that ability, 3.5e be damned.
I know my Mammon tiefling makes absolutely rude use of her once-a-day free cast of Arcane Lock tho, that spell becomes astonishingly useful when it doesn't kill 25gp per cast.
Please do not contact or message me.
Then imagine having 10 free castings of Arcane Lock...
That's how I read it too. Continual Flame is a good downtime choice for SSI for a level 11+ Artificer to make a living crafting and selling lanterns that never require fuel. 10 times per day over a 100 day period and you can turn a bag of ball bearings into a bag of 1000 lamps. Use them to haggle with merchants especially ones without easy access to magical lighting.
That is essentially what an Everbright Lantern is. In fact, it even says within the magical item that it is a lantern containing a dragonshard that sheds light comparable to the Continual Flame spell.
So purchase a bunch of ball bearings and some hooded lanterns, remove the wick and oil system (convert those into molotov cocktails for combat use) within them and instead place a ball bearing inside with the Continual Flame spell enchanted on it. Viola! You've got yourself an Everbright Lantern and one molotov cocktail.
A hooded lantern costs 5 gps each, and 1000 ball bearings cost 1 gps. And an Everbright Lantern is a common magical item, which sells for anywhere between 50 to 100 gps. Obviously you have to worry about flooding the market with supply and demand, but there is definitely a way to make some money there.
As a DM, I would probably rule that the artificer needs to expend the materials for the spell when they generate the SSI for the day, i.e. using Arcane Lock or Continual Flame as your SSI requires you to expend 25gp of gold dust or 50gp of ruby dust. That would definitely be a house rule though, and even then all that does is gate the rampant profiteering behind a basic overhead. Getting ten casts out of one expenditure of resources is still ridiculously resource efficient, but it dissuades players from overly cheesing spells to, as said, set up a Lantern Emporium and mercantile-success their way out of being adventurers.
RAW, nothing is stopping the players from doing exactly that, but I'd probably have to figure out a reason why nobody else in the world has ever made a killing off of a nigh-infinite supply of everburning lanterns or magical password locks, and thus why the players need to keep playing D&D instead of saying "we retire to our super-lucrative lanternmaking business and spend the next few years cornering the lighting market in Faerun."
Please do not contact or message me.
In order to store the spell someone must cast it into the item, therefore requiring the components for the spell at that time.
eg- Reserve Ioun Stone: (DMG p177)
Reserve (Rare). This vibrant purple prism stores spells cast into it, holding them until you use them. The stone can store up to 3 levels worth of spells at a time. When found, it contains ld4 - 1 levels of stored spells chosen by the DM.
Any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 3rd level into the stone by touching it as the spell is cast. The spell has no effect, other than to be stored in the stone. If the stone can't hold the spell, the spell is expended without effect. The level of the slot used to cast the spell determines how much space it uses.
While this stone orbits your head, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. The spell cast from the stone is no longer stored in it, freeing up space.”
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Not sure why you are referencing a different magical item that has no bearing on the the Artificer's Spell Storing Item class feature. That feature states that:
At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn’t have it prepared).While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it’s been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.The artificer doesn't even need to have prepared the spell to store it into the Spell Storing Item. Further more, the Spell Storing Item class feature only uses the term "cast" once, and that is in referring to the restriction on the casting time requirements for being a valid spell to store.
The components (Material, Verbal, Somatic) for a spell are a requirement that must be met in order to cast said spell. Since the Spell Storing Item does not cast the spell and instead "produces the spell's effect", it circumvents these component requirements entirely.
So they don’t have to cast it to store it?
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Nope, at least not for the Spell Storing Item. Now the Reserve Ioun Stone magical item does require them to cast the spell to store it, but they are two different features with two distinct rules.