Welcome to another place where real world analogy breaks down against game mechanic. Effectively the artificer is acting much like a scaled down Netherese Mythallar- he generates a pseudo magic “field” called an infusion that is tied in some way to his life force and powers his items. At L2 he is able to generate 4 such fields empowering single whole objects so the suit of armor (complete or incomplete) can take one such field, a shield could take a second and 2 weapons would typically take the other two. As she gains experience, expertise and becomes more familiar with real magic items she learns to generate more infusions and to be able to add different infusions to different parts of the armor (or to mix real magic items into armor sets otherwise enhanced by the infusions) at no time can the artificer add infusions to true magical items however as the true magic overpowers the effects of the infusion leaving the item unchanged. Hence the name Arcane X rather than Magical X.
Welcome to another place where real world analogy breaks down against game mechanic. Effectively the artificer is acting much like a scaled down netherese Mythal lair - he generates a pseudo magic “field” called an infusion that is tied in some way to his life force and powers his items. At L2 he is able to generate 4 such fields empowering single whole objects so the suit of armor (complete or incomplete) can take one such field, a shield could take a second and 2 weapons would typically take the other two. As she gains experience, expertise and becomes more familiar with real magic items she learns to generate more infusions and to be able to add different infusions to different parts of the armor (or to mix real magic items into armor sets otherwise enhanced by the infusions) at no time can the artificer add infusions to true magical items however as the true magic overpowers the effects of the infusion leaving the item unchanged. Hence the name Arcane X rather than Magical X.
One loop hole to this logic I suppose is, well why not just rip off the plate armor gauntlets and put on other gauntlets and then infuse those.
They can't be ripped off:
It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action.
So you can solve the helmet problem from the jump, but in terms of gauntlets and boots, it's compulsory that the armor covers your entire body. Whether or not this stops you from wearing gauntlets on top of your armor is unknowable without asking your DM, because the rules don't tell you how thickly it covers your entire body - when padded covers your feet, presumably you're now functionally wearing particularly thick socks, so why couldn't you wear boots on top? There's no logical way to infer how this process works, though - I invented that interpretation for padded from whole cloth. It could be as thick or as thin as your DM decides.
Mind you, RAW, this also means the armor hasn't got any gauntlets (or boots). By definition, gauntlets are distinct objects - if you wear a shirt with really long sleeves that end in "gloves", you aren't wearing gauntlets, or gloves, or mittens. You are wearing a gloved shirt, at best. Same reason if you put on pants with footies, you aren't wearing socks, shoes, or boots - you're wearing footie pants. If the whole thing is one item that you enter through the abdomen, it's called a onesie.
Tasha's is wall to wall rules salad, and this is just yet another example. At the end of the day, you need your DM to fix all of it, because just about none of it works without heavy DM fiat fixing it. That means we can't have a sane discussion about these issues outside of a context where we know your DM's rulings.
One loop hole to this logic I suppose is, well why not just rip off the plate armor gauntlets and put on other gauntlets and then infuse those.
They can't be ripped off:
It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action.
So you can solve the helmet problem from the jump, but in terms of gauntlets and boots, it's compulsory that the armor covers your entire body. Whether or not this stops you from wearing gauntlets on top of your armor is unknowable without asking your DM, because the rules don't tell you how thickly it covers your entire body - when padded covers your feet, presumably you're now functionally wearing particularly thick socks, so why couldn't you wear boots on top? There's no logical way to infer how this process works, though - I invented that interpretation for padded from whole cloth. It could be as thick or as thin as your DM decides.
Mind you, RAW, this also means the armor hasn't got any gauntlets (or boots). By definition, gauntlets are distinct objects - if you wear a shirt with really long sleeves that end in "gloves", you aren't wearing gauntlets, or gloves, or mittens. You are wearing a gloved shirt, at best. Same reason if you put on pants with footies, you aren't wearing socks, shoes, or boots - you're wearing footie pants. If the whole thing is one item that you enter through the abdomen, it's called a onesie.
Tasha's is wall to wall rules salad, and this is just yet another example. At the end of the day, you need your DM to fix all of it, because just about none of it works without heavy DM fiat fixing it. That means we can't have a sane discussion about these issues outside of a context where we know your DM's rulings.
Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. A suit of plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and thick layers of padding underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body.
Plate armor would beg to differ with your logic.
As for my rip off comment, I was referring to non-Arcane Armor. Why can't one with magical plate armor of +1, take the gauntlets of said plate armor and replicate them to be bracers of defense? WITHOUT the lv 9 subclass feature. Normally, you can wear magical plate armor AND bracers of defense. The Arcane Armor works with an armor of your choosing, so are you saying that the Arcane Armor is actually more hurtful to the Artificer at first, because how it is written it is one whole piece (quite literally) and not like how plate armor is described? For then, to be able to do what is described to the non-Arcane Armor, you have to be Lv 9? Why can't you just un-Arcane Armor the armor you choose, do everything prior, then re-Arcane Armor the armor?
Basically, my point is, the Lv 9 feature, all it really gives you is +2 infusion uses specifically for armor.
You may be able to wear the armor and bracers, but you don’t get the effect of the bracers - their description says they don’t work if you are wearing armor or using a shield - that includes magic armor and shields.
You may be able to wear the armor and bracers, but you don’t get the effect of the bracers - their description says they don’t work if you are wearing armor or using a shield - that includes magic armor and shields.
Well I be damn, I completely forgot about that. Well bad example then. Replace Bracers of Defense with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength then, lol. The point still stands. The Lv 9 feature does nothing you can't already do prior to Arcane Armor, except give you 2 added infusions for armor specific. Nothing stops me from infusing gauntlets, boots and helm with whatever and having a magical plate and then doing Arcane Armor and maintaining all magical properties of all items.
You may be able to wear the armor and bracers, but you don’t get the effect of the bracers - their description says they don’t work if you are wearing armor or using a shield - that includes magic armor and shields.
Well I be damn, I completely forgot about that. Well bad example then. Replace Bracers of Defense with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength then, lol. The point still stands. The Lv 9 feature does nothing you can't already do prior to Arcane Armor, except give you 2 added infusions for armor specific. Nothing stops me from infusing gauntlets, boots and helm with whatever and having a magical plate and then doing Arcane Armor and maintaining all magical properties of all items.
I think a DM that doesn't allow a helmet infusion and boot infusion if the armor is magical is making an assumption and leaning towards pretty harsh rules. Its not even RAW. The RAW is vague and doesn't really touch on that. I typically don't like to say "DMs won't be like that" but in this case I think it would be a pretty crappy DM if they didn't allow the infusions for this.
Your reasoning is sound. I look at it like this: If other characters can wear magical armor AND also equip Magical boots or Gloves or a Helmet without suffering any penalties to the magical properties of the armor, then those extra parts being replaced of the armor aren't magical. The only exception could be Power Armor, since it has components of it (similar to Arcane Armor) that make it an enclosed suit, but is also DM discretion. Since there is no negative for other classes mixing Magical armor with other components that are assumed part of the magical armor, then the same should be assumed with Artificer.
If you want to get technical just argue "I'm wearing +1 Plate but I'm wearing regular leather gloves, boots, and cap." Any other character would receive no penalty for that, so the Artificer shouldn't either and as such that arrangement of items means those items aren't magical.
Do you have an exact ruling by RAW where the chest piece if the only magical part of the item?
It's not so much that the chest piece is the only magical part of the item, but rather for the purpose of infusions, your Arcane Armor counts as one item spread across your entire body. For example, you'd have to choose between a plus to AC on your armor or a bonus to hit with your gauntlets. This implication is confirmed at level 9 with the new feature:
You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions, and the infusions transfer over if you change your armor’s model with the Armor Model feature. In addition, the maximum number of items you can infuse at once increases by 2, but those extra items must be part of your Arcane Armor.
So, this splits up options for infusions, indicating this was not possible to do before. Again though, this is just for purposes of infusions. The whole armor set was magical already.
Arcane Armor isn't magical. YOU are magical. If you take the armor off all the effects stop immediately. You can't lend your Arcane Armor to the fighter because the armor isn't magical, you are magical. So there is no conflict between the idea of infusing only non-magical items and infusing your Arcane Armor. The Arcane Armor isn't magical. It isn't generating any magical effects. You are generating the magical effects.
If you turn a set of magical armor into your Arcane Armor that armor is still a magic item. It is generating a magical effect. You can't infuse it.
But there can be complications. If you have a set of +1 plate armor and you replace the helmet, gauntlets, and boots with non-magical ones does the +1 effect still work? If yes, you can infuse non-magical versions and wear those instead. If the original enchanter only enchanted one piece of the armor then you can replace any other parts of the set. If the original enchanter enchanted every bit of the armor then you can't.
This is more complicated than it looks. Often you might have a rogue wearing leather armor. The official art of rogues rarely has them wearing a helmet. Is a helmet intrinsic to that leather armor or not? Further that rogue might acquire +1 leather armor, boots of speed, and gloves of thievery -- and to all accounts replacing the armor's original boots and gloves did not cause the +1 to fail. That supports the idea that only the main torso piece is actually enchanted and you can Ship of Theseus the rest with no problem.
There is a consequence there though. According the DMG 141 ".Most magic items, other than potions and scrolls, have resistance to all damage". If every part of your armor is enchanted, then the whole thing is resistant to damage. If only the chest piece is actually enchanted, the rest could be destroyed. Get swallowed by a monster thats corrosive stomach acid decays all non-magical items and you may escape wearing your chest piece and nothing else. Your +1 chest plate is still offering a +1 but by itself it cannot offer the full AC bonus because it is not a full set of armor.
I imagine both types of enchantments could be available. Whole armor enchantment, so no part of it is vulnerable to damage but no part can be replaced. Or chest piece enchantment, so you can freely replace all the other pieces but those pieces do not benefit from the magic item damage resistance. You just have to know which kind you have before you wade through lava or swim in a dragons digestive fluid.
If you rule that a 9th level Armorer cannot infuse their magical armor, I would also point out that their Arcane Armor would remove their ability to use any magical item in their head, foot and gloves slots because the Arcane Armor feature says
"The armor attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action."
And we know that you cannot wear two pieces of equipment in the same slot
"A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak."
If I, as an Artillerist, find Adamantine Chain Mail I can still infuse and wear Boots of Speed, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Helm of Telepathy. I cannot infuse the Armor to have +2AC because it is magical.
If I, as an Amorer, find Adamantine Chain Mail I cannot infuse and wear Boots of Speed, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Helm of Telepathy as the Arcane Armor expands and covers each of those slots.
Also any Armorer that has Arcane Armor made with any mundane armor, until Level 9, would be unable to use any magic item they find or infuse for those slots because of the same rule.
Logic, to me, dictates that once an Armorer hits Level 9 they would be able to infuse each slot (other than Chest) on Magical armor because otherwise wearing ANY Arcane Armor would inhibit the character from using magical items in any of those slots. The reasoning for not being able to infuse the chest piece on magical armor would be that you could turn a +1 Plate armor in to a +3 and a +3 Plate in to +5. With an Artificer being able to make Rings/Cloaks of Protection, turning a +3 plate(or studded leather with Dex20) in to +5 and having a Repulsion shield with that combination of items would give you an AC of 28 with Plate or 27 with Studded Leather, which is ridiculous.
The 9th level feature says "You learnhow to use your artificer infusions to speciallymodify your Arcane Armor". "Learn", meaning you did not know how to do it before, but now you do. "Specially", meaning it is a special case that works differently than the normal feature. This is how I think it supersedes the level 2 feature.
Prior to this feature, you could not infuse magic items. Upon reaching level 9, you can do so, as long as it is your arcane armor. While you're wearing it as your arcane armor it holds your infusions as part of the class feature. If you doff the armor, those infusions fizzle out and the armor returns to its base magical state.
If you haven’t read thru all 4 pages you might want to go back and do so - a lot of this is actually covered in those pages. WOTC has left a lot of this fairly murky so individual DMs can run things as they see fit. A suggestion - don’t judge the armor by the pictures, read the descriptions in the PHB. Padded, leather, studded leather, chain shirts and breastplates are basically jerkins ( pull over long jackets) maybe with a separate pair of leather pants (think motor cycle leathers with or without studs- you buy the jacket and pants separately not as a suit normally. Ring mail is leather with rings sewn on so see above. Scale, and Chainmail sort of mention some sort of leggings and do mention gauntlets, historically Chainmail was basically 3 pieces: jerkin, leggings and coif ( head piece) with helmets being optional on all armors so far mentioned. Splint ( the legionnaire’s Lori a segment at a) is described as having the armored skirt while half plate ( think ancient Grecian breast and back) mentions the skirt and greaves( calf pieces) as being present sometimes****y full plate ( late midevial plate armor) was made as a fitted suit covering the entire body - which is why it’s so expensive. A lot of the arguing here is due to the murkiness of the description of the artificer armorer’s features - so this is how I run it as a DM: 1) any armour you wear gains the benefits of the “ arcane armour” even it is mundane and uninfused because it has been modified by you to do so. 2) until L9 you only have 2 or 3 infusions active at a time ( no you can’t do 2/3 each day for a week and have 20-20 active infusions) this realistically means that you infuse the armor and a weapon ( and a miscellaneous item when you get 3 active each day). Depending on the armor you have you would basically lay out all the pieces and infuse them as a unit. Yes L6-8 could in theory infuse their mundane boots to be boots of elvenkind then wear them with their infused armor as part of their arcane armor. 3) you can wear magical armor and adjust it so it it functions as your arcane armor but you can’t infuse it. But you could then use that infusion on a shield or some other mundane item. So you need to ask your DM just what parts are present in any magical armor you find. ( in my campaign the answer is the jerkin no gauntlets, helmets, boots but the leggings for scale, & Chainmail and the attached skirt for splint and half plate while it’s the full suit minus the helmet, gauntlets and boots for plate - that allows nonartificers to mix and match those pieces and if others can so can the artificer) 4) your infusions never work on magic items - but, Mithril, Admantine and Elven armors are not actually magic - they are rare special masterwork items with special properties. They can be infused or enchanted ( most magic armor is made from one or another of these with extra enchantments) . 5) at L9 the armorer jumps from 3 infusions active to 5 but 3 ( the original armor infusion and the 2 new extras) must be used on the armor pieces which now includes helmets, boots and gauntlets. 6) at L10 the artificer armorer gets a total of 8 infusions active of which 2 MUST be on some of their “armor” and probably 3 should. Those 8 go very quickly: armor, boots?, helmet?, sword, bow?, bag of holding?, cloak?, ring? And your done.
the artificer armorer improves the party not by making a ton of magic and distributing it to the party but by making his own magic items so the few magic items the party does find can go to the rest of the party that can’t creat their own.
There was a bit of an error in something I said in a post at the top of the page: I was speaking of an artificer as using 4 infusions early on - they can’t. They learn how to create 4 infusions at L2 but can only have 2 active at a time. At L6 this increases to 6 known and 3 active. At L9 an armorer (only) gets 6 known and 5 active but 2 of the 5 MUST BE ON SOME PORTION OF THE ARMOR. At L10 this goes up to 8 known and 6 active with 2 of the 6 on some portion (helmet, chest, boots, gauntlet, armor built in weapon) of the armor. Now I think this actually ends up with some wacky possibilities - imagine a barbarian/artificer ( I don’t actually recommend that you play this but it’s an interesting build for seeing how things work) at LB2/A2 all the basic barbarian features are in place as well as the first infusions. Assuming a 12str, 14dex,14 con,14int and wielding a battle axe and using only a shield with the enhanced armor and weapon infusions active you would be AC 17, 20HPs, and doing 1d8+2 damage At L3 you get the arcane armor. Even though you only have a shield. As a DM I would require that you have boots and gauntlets as well (mundane) but that isn’t RAW technically.
Hi there. My first post. I came to this thread because I had the same confusion about magical armor and Artificer Armorer infusions. I found this thread really interesting, but it occurred to me given that Artificers are able to attune to more magical items than any other class, and their capstone gets better the more magic items they attune to, then its a unfortunate if the Armorer specialism's abilities end up actively discouraging them wearing magical items.
Hi there. My first post. I came to this thread because I had the same confusion about magical armor and Artificer Armorer infusions. I found this thread really interesting, but it occurred to me given that Artificers are able to attune to more magical items than any other class, and their capstone gets better the more magic items they attune to, then its a unfortunate if the Armorer specialism's abilities end up actively discouraging them wearing magical items.
The way I see it, the extra attunement slots are specifically a failsafe for the number of infusions they can have. If you look at the table, the levels that they get extra attunement spots are also when they are able to infuse more items. Basically, if you infuse four items that require attunement, you are able to attune to all four of them.
I think it adds to their versatility. Remember that Artificers can give the infusions to other people in their party. I look at it like this: Because the artificer has infusions they can let others take magic equipment rather than "roll for it" They can also help fill in the gaps where they, or their allies could use a piece of magic equipment but don't have it.
Personally, if we are looking at high levels like level 15 to 20, the Artificer may be using Replicate Magic Item, Spell Refueling Ring, etc.
I feel they may end up standing out more at lower levels and that tapers as they level up alongside others. This doesn't mean they become worse, its just their initial flair fades to become more like the rest.
From a DM perspective their quality also depends on how the DM is treating his campaign. If +2 weapons and armor are readily available (as well as other magic equipment) at lower levels than RAW would suggest it may neuter the Artificer at bit. Creating some custom rules may help with this. My DM and I came up with the idea of Enchant Weapon/Armor gives +1 to a magic item at level 10 (+2 to non-magical) this way you can boost a +1 so it is just as good (or even slightly better) than a normal +2 item. We likely won't play until 20 so I'm not sure if we'll extend that to giving a +1 to an item that is +3 but the impression was giving a +1 to a +2 weapon eventually as well. Overall, custom rules, allowing magic items, may be necessary if you're playing a game with high rates of magic equipment.
I actually don't understand why this is confusing anyone.
Arcane Armor 3rd-level Armorer feature Your metallurgical pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic. As an action, you can turn a suit of armor you are wearing into Arcane Armor...
There is no limitation in magical items, so you can turn a magical armor into your Arcane Armor, it will still be counted as an magical item, as this is not overwritten in any passage.
Armor Modifications 9th-level Armorer feature You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions
This feat says, your armor counts as seperate items for the purpose of your Infuse Item feat. It doesn't state anywhere that any rules of your feat are overwritten.
Infusing an Item
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch a non-magical object and imbue it with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item.
Since you can't infuse a magical item, and it this rule is never changed in any of the Armorer Feats, you still can't infuse a magical item even if it is your armor.
HOWEVER Once you're level 9 and your armor is split into 4 pieces, I would say, RAI, that you can infuse seperate items as long as they are not magical items. Armor: Wearing a magical Armor, you can't infuse that piece Head: Wearing a magical helmet (or circlet), you can't infuse this piece Boots: Wearing magical boots, you can't infuse this piece Special Weapon: Since your glove count as weapons, you could argue that you can infuse them, even if you're wearing gloves/bracers. But again, this somewhat arguable.
There is no special ruling. The Armor / Armor Pieces CAN bear infusions, but you CAN'T infuse magical items. You CAN turn armor as magic item into an Arcane Armor, but it counts as magical item. There is no wording in any way that would imply otherwise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Welcome to another place where real world analogy breaks down against game mechanic. Effectively the artificer is acting much like a scaled down Netherese Mythallar- he generates a pseudo magic “field” called an infusion that is tied in some way to his life force and powers his items. At L2 he is able to generate 4 such fields empowering single whole objects so the suit of armor (complete or incomplete) can take one such field, a shield could take a second and 2 weapons would typically take the other two. As she gains experience, expertise and becomes more familiar with real magic items she learns to generate more infusions and to be able to add different infusions to different parts of the armor (or to mix real magic items into armor sets otherwise enhanced by the infusions) at no time can the artificer add infusions to true magical items however as the true magic overpowers the effects of the infusion leaving the item unchanged. Hence the name Arcane X rather than Magical X.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This is a really good way of describing it.
Thank you
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
They can't be ripped off:
So you can solve the helmet problem from the jump, but in terms of gauntlets and boots, it's compulsory that the armor covers your entire body. Whether or not this stops you from wearing gauntlets on top of your armor is unknowable without asking your DM, because the rules don't tell you how thickly it covers your entire body - when padded covers your feet, presumably you're now functionally wearing particularly thick socks, so why couldn't you wear boots on top? There's no logical way to infer how this process works, though - I invented that interpretation for padded from whole cloth. It could be as thick or as thin as your DM decides.
Mind you, RAW, this also means the armor hasn't got any gauntlets (or boots). By definition, gauntlets are distinct objects - if you wear a shirt with really long sleeves that end in "gloves", you aren't wearing gauntlets, or gloves, or mittens. You are wearing a gloved shirt, at best. Same reason if you put on pants with footies, you aren't wearing socks, shoes, or boots - you're wearing footie pants. If the whole thing is one item that you enter through the abdomen, it's called a onesie.
Tasha's is wall to wall rules salad, and this is just yet another example. At the end of the day, you need your DM to fix all of it, because just about none of it works without heavy DM fiat fixing it. That means we can't have a sane discussion about these issues outside of a context where we know your DM's rulings.
Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. A suit of plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and thick layers of padding underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body.
Plate armor would beg to differ with your logic.
As for my rip off comment, I was referring to non-Arcane Armor. Why can't one with magical plate armor of +1, take the gauntlets of said plate armor and replicate them to be bracers of defense? WITHOUT the lv 9 subclass feature. Normally, you can wear magical plate armor AND bracers of defense. The Arcane Armor works with an armor of your choosing, so are you saying that the Arcane Armor is actually more hurtful to the Artificer at first, because how it is written it is one whole piece (quite literally) and not like how plate armor is described? For then, to be able to do what is described to the non-Arcane Armor, you have to be Lv 9? Why can't you just un-Arcane Armor the armor you choose, do everything prior, then re-Arcane Armor the armor?
Basically, my point is, the Lv 9 feature, all it really gives you is +2 infusion uses specifically for armor.
You may be able to wear the armor and bracers, but you don’t get the effect of the bracers - their description says they don’t work if you are wearing armor or using a shield - that includes magic armor and shields.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Well I be damn, I completely forgot about that. Well bad example then. Replace Bracers of Defense with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength then, lol. The point still stands. The Lv 9 feature does nothing you can't already do prior to Arcane Armor, except give you 2 added infusions for armor specific. Nothing stops me from infusing gauntlets, boots and helm with whatever and having a magical plate and then doing Arcane Armor and maintaining all magical properties of all items.
I think a DM that doesn't allow a helmet infusion and boot infusion if the armor is magical is making an assumption and leaning towards pretty harsh rules. Its not even RAW.
The RAW is vague and doesn't really touch on that. I typically don't like to say "DMs won't be like that" but in this case I think it would be a pretty crappy DM if they didn't allow the infusions for this.
Your reasoning is sound.
I look at it like this:
If other characters can wear magical armor AND also equip Magical boots or Gloves or a Helmet without suffering any penalties to the magical properties of the armor, then those extra parts being replaced of the armor aren't magical. The only exception could be Power Armor, since it has components of it (similar to Arcane Armor) that make it an enclosed suit, but is also DM discretion. Since there is no negative for other classes mixing Magical armor with other components that are assumed part of the magical armor, then the same should be assumed with Artificer.
If you want to get technical just argue "I'm wearing +1 Plate but I'm wearing regular leather gloves, boots, and cap." Any other character would receive no penalty for that, so the Artificer shouldn't either and as such that arrangement of items means those items aren't magical.
Go back up to the top of this page and reread my comment there 😁
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Do you have an exact ruling by RAW where the chest piece if the only magical part of the item?
It's not so much that the chest piece is the only magical part of the item, but rather for the purpose of infusions, your Arcane Armor counts as one item spread across your entire body. For example, you'd have to choose between a plus to AC on your armor or a bonus to hit with your gauntlets. This implication is confirmed at level 9 with the new feature:
So, this splits up options for infusions, indicating this was not possible to do before. Again though, this is just for purposes of infusions. The whole armor set was magical already.
Arcane Armor isn't magical. YOU are magical. If you take the armor off all the effects stop immediately. You can't lend your Arcane Armor to the fighter because the armor isn't magical, you are magical. So there is no conflict between the idea of infusing only non-magical items and infusing your Arcane Armor. The Arcane Armor isn't magical. It isn't generating any magical effects. You are generating the magical effects.
If you turn a set of magical armor into your Arcane Armor that armor is still a magic item. It is generating a magical effect. You can't infuse it.
But there can be complications. If you have a set of +1 plate armor and you replace the helmet, gauntlets, and boots with non-magical ones does the +1 effect still work? If yes, you can infuse non-magical versions and wear those instead. If the original enchanter only enchanted one piece of the armor then you can replace any other parts of the set. If the original enchanter enchanted every bit of the armor then you can't.
This is more complicated than it looks. Often you might have a rogue wearing leather armor. The official art of rogues rarely has them wearing a helmet. Is a helmet intrinsic to that leather armor or not? Further that rogue might acquire +1 leather armor, boots of speed, and gloves of thievery -- and to all accounts replacing the armor's original boots and gloves did not cause the +1 to fail. That supports the idea that only the main torso piece is actually enchanted and you can Ship of Theseus the rest with no problem.
There is a consequence there though. According the DMG 141 ".Most magic items, other than potions and scrolls, have resistance to all damage". If every part of your armor is enchanted, then the whole thing is resistant to damage. If only the chest piece is actually enchanted, the rest could be destroyed. Get swallowed by a monster thats corrosive stomach acid decays all non-magical items and you may escape wearing your chest piece and nothing else. Your +1 chest plate is still offering a +1 but by itself it cannot offer the full AC bonus because it is not a full set of armor.
I imagine both types of enchantments could be available. Whole armor enchantment, so no part of it is vulnerable to damage but no part can be replaced. Or chest piece enchantment, so you can freely replace all the other pieces but those pieces do not benefit from the magic item damage resistance. You just have to know which kind you have before you wade through lava or swim in a dragons digestive fluid.
If you rule that a 9th level Armorer cannot infuse their magical armor, I would also point out that their Arcane Armor would remove their ability to use any magical item in their head, foot and gloves slots because the Arcane Armor feature says
"The armor attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action."
And we know that you cannot wear two pieces of equipment in the same slot
"A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak."
If I, as an Artillerist, find Adamantine Chain Mail I can still infuse and wear Boots of Speed, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Helm of Telepathy. I cannot infuse the Armor to have +2AC because it is magical.
If I, as an Amorer, find Adamantine Chain Mail I cannot infuse and wear Boots of Speed, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Helm of Telepathy as the Arcane Armor expands and covers each of those slots.
Also any Armorer that has Arcane Armor made with any mundane armor, until Level 9, would be unable to use any magic item they find or infuse for those slots because of the same rule.
Logic, to me, dictates that once an Armorer hits Level 9 they would be able to infuse each slot (other than Chest) on Magical armor because otherwise wearing ANY Arcane Armor would inhibit the character from using magical items in any of those slots. The reasoning for not being able to infuse the chest piece on magical armor would be that you could turn a +1 Plate armor in to a +3 and a +3 Plate in to +5. With an Artificer being able to make Rings/Cloaks of Protection, turning a +3 plate(or studded leather with Dex20) in to +5 and having a Repulsion shield with that combination of items would give you an AC of 28 with Plate or 27 with Studded Leather, which is ridiculous.
Here's my interpretation:
The 9th level feature says "You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor". "Learn", meaning you did not know how to do it before, but now you do. "Specially", meaning it is a special case that works differently than the normal feature. This is how I think it supersedes the level 2 feature.
Prior to this feature, you could not infuse magic items. Upon reaching level 9, you can do so, as long as it is your arcane armor. While you're wearing it as your arcane armor it holds your infusions as part of the class feature. If you doff the armor, those infusions fizzle out and the armor returns to its base magical state.
If you haven’t read thru all 4 pages you might want to go back and do so - a lot of this is actually covered in those pages.
WOTC has left a lot of this fairly murky so individual DMs can run things as they see fit. A suggestion - don’t judge the armor by the pictures, read the descriptions in the PHB. Padded, leather, studded leather, chain shirts and breastplates are basically jerkins ( pull over long jackets) maybe with a separate pair of leather pants (think motor cycle leathers with or without studs- you buy the jacket and pants separately not as a suit normally. Ring mail is leather with rings sewn on so see above. Scale, and Chainmail sort of mention some sort of leggings and do mention gauntlets, historically Chainmail was basically 3 pieces: jerkin, leggings and coif ( head piece) with helmets being optional on all armors so far mentioned. Splint ( the legionnaire’s Lori a segment at a) is described as having the armored skirt while half plate ( think ancient Grecian breast and back) mentions the skirt and greaves( calf pieces) as being present sometimes****y full plate ( late midevial plate armor) was made as a fitted suit covering the entire body - which is why it’s so expensive. A lot of the arguing here is due to the murkiness of the description of the artificer armorer’s features - so this is how I run it as a DM:
1) any armour you wear gains the benefits of the “ arcane armour” even it is mundane and uninfused because it has been modified by you to do so.
2) until L9 you only have 2 or 3 infusions active at a time ( no you can’t do 2/3 each day for a week and have 20-20 active infusions) this realistically means that you infuse the armor and a weapon ( and a miscellaneous item when you get 3 active each day). Depending on the armor you have you would basically lay out all the pieces and infuse them as a unit. Yes L6-8 could in theory infuse their mundane boots to be boots of elvenkind then wear them with their infused armor as part of their arcane armor.
3) you can wear magical armor and adjust it so it it functions as your arcane armor but you can’t infuse it. But you could then use that infusion on a shield or some other mundane item. So you need to ask your DM just what parts are present in any magical armor you find. ( in my campaign the answer is the jerkin no gauntlets, helmets, boots but the leggings for scale, & Chainmail and the attached skirt for splint and half plate while it’s the full suit minus the helmet, gauntlets and boots for plate - that allows nonartificers to mix and match those pieces and if others can so can the artificer)
4) your infusions never work on magic items - but, Mithril, Admantine and Elven armors are not actually magic - they are rare special masterwork items with special properties. They can be infused or enchanted ( most magic armor is made from one or another of these with extra enchantments) .
5) at L9 the armorer jumps from 3 infusions active to 5 but 3 ( the original armor infusion and the 2 new extras) must be used on the armor pieces which now includes helmets, boots and gauntlets.
6) at L10 the artificer armorer gets a total of 8 infusions active of which 2 MUST be on some of their “armor” and probably 3 should. Those 8 go very quickly: armor, boots?, helmet?, sword, bow?, bag of holding?, cloak?, ring? And your done.
the artificer armorer improves the party not by making a ton of magic and distributing it to the party but by making his own magic items so the few magic items the party does find can go to the rest of the party that can’t creat their own.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There was a bit of an error in something I said in a post at the top of the page: I was speaking of an artificer as using 4 infusions early on - they can’t. They learn how to create 4 infusions at L2 but can only have 2 active at a time. At L6 this increases to 6 known and 3 active. At L9 an armorer (only) gets 6 known and 5 active but 2 of the 5 MUST BE ON SOME PORTION OF THE ARMOR. At L10 this goes up to 8 known and 6 active with 2 of the 6 on some portion (helmet, chest, boots, gauntlet, armor built in weapon) of the armor.
Now I think this actually ends up with some wacky possibilities - imagine a barbarian/artificer ( I don’t actually recommend that you play this but it’s an interesting build for seeing how things work) at LB2/A2 all the basic barbarian features are in place as well as the first infusions. Assuming a 12str, 14dex,14 con,14int and wielding a battle axe and using only a shield with the enhanced armor and weapon infusions active you would be AC 17, 20HPs, and doing 1d8+2 damage At L3 you get the arcane armor. Even though you only have a shield. As a DM I would require that you have boots and gauntlets as well (mundane) but that isn’t RAW technically.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Hi there. My first post. I came to this thread because I had the same confusion about magical armor and Artificer Armorer infusions. I found this thread really interesting, but it occurred to me given that Artificers are able to attune to more magical items than any other class, and their capstone gets better the more magic items they attune to, then its a unfortunate if the Armorer specialism's abilities end up actively discouraging them wearing magical items.
The way I see it, the extra attunement slots are specifically a failsafe for the number of infusions they can have. If you look at the table, the levels that they get extra attunement spots are also when they are able to infuse more items. Basically, if you infuse four items that require attunement, you are able to attune to all four of them.
How to add tooltips on dndbeyond
I think it adds to their versatility.
Remember that Artificers can give the infusions to other people in their party.
I look at it like this:
Because the artificer has infusions they can let others take magic equipment rather than "roll for it"
They can also help fill in the gaps where they, or their allies could use a piece of magic equipment but don't have it.
Personally, if we are looking at high levels like level 15 to 20, the Artificer may be using Replicate Magic Item, Spell Refueling Ring, etc.
I feel they may end up standing out more at lower levels and that tapers as they level up alongside others. This doesn't mean they become worse, its just their initial flair fades to become more like the rest.
From a DM perspective their quality also depends on how the DM is treating his campaign. If +2 weapons and armor are readily available (as well as other magic equipment) at lower levels than RAW would suggest it may neuter the Artificer at bit. Creating some custom rules may help with this.
My DM and I came up with the idea of Enchant Weapon/Armor gives +1 to a magic item at level 10 (+2 to non-magical) this way you can boost a +1 so it is just as good (or even slightly better) than a normal +2 item. We likely won't play until 20 so I'm not sure if we'll extend that to giving a +1 to an item that is +3 but the impression was giving a +1 to a +2 weapon eventually as well. Overall, custom rules, allowing magic items, may be necessary if you're playing a game with high rates of magic equipment.
I actually don't understand why this is confusing anyone.
Arcane Armor
3rd-level Armorer feature
Your metallurgical pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic. As an action, you can turn a suit of armor you are wearing into Arcane Armor...
There is no limitation in magical items, so you can turn a magical armor into your Arcane Armor, it will still be counted as an magical item, as this is not overwritten in any passage.
Armor Modifications
9th-level Armorer feature
You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions
This feat says, your armor counts as seperate items for the purpose of your Infuse Item feat. It doesn't state anywhere that any rules of your feat are overwritten.
Infusing an Item
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch a non-magical object and imbue it with one of your artificer infusions, turning it into a magic item.
Since you can't infuse a magical item, and it this rule is never changed in any of the Armorer Feats, you still can't infuse a magical item even if it is your armor.
HOWEVER
Once you're level 9 and your armor is split into 4 pieces, I would say, RAI, that you can infuse seperate items as long as they are not magical items.
Armor: Wearing a magical Armor, you can't infuse that piece
Head: Wearing a magical helmet (or circlet), you can't infuse this piece
Boots: Wearing magical boots, you can't infuse this piece
Special Weapon: Since your glove count as weapons, you could argue that you can infuse them, even if you're wearing gloves/bracers. But again, this somewhat arguable.
There is no special ruling. The Armor / Armor Pieces CAN bear infusions, but you CAN'T infuse magical items. You CAN turn armor as magic item into an Arcane Armor, but it counts as magical item. There is no wording in any way that would imply otherwise.