Given that an artificer is a half caster with far fewer spells and slots than a mage, etc that mindsharpener is actually best used by the artificer to maintain their limited abilities than it is being given to the mage to use when they have enough slots to recast the spell if needed. Generally infusions given out to the party actually weaken the party overall as they weaken the artificer more than they strengthen the party member receiving the infusion. There are cases ( like the one I provided) where that might not be true, but they are not the majority. Rather they are occasional special cases. Artificers were given infusions to benefit the artificer so the artificer strengthens their party - not to be given out to the party leaving the artificer as the weak link in the team. The question should always be - What role is the artificer playing this time and what fusions do they need to best lay that role to max capacity. Then if there are infusions left giving them out to party members does make sense - but never at th expense of the artificer maximizing their own capabilities first. At L13 the artificer knows 8 different fusions but can only have 4 active, that is 4 key abilities/pieces of kit you want to take away, not replace and then you spect the artificer to be happy and function at peak performance? PLEASE!
I've been considering creating a homebrewed archetype called the Crafter. It would gain additional infusions (either Int-based or proficiency based) and these additional infused items could only be used by someone other than the artificer. The Crafter would also have enhanced ability when creating magic items and for improving his own infused items . . .
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I firmly believe that this comes down to a combination of the Artificer player's play style and the party composition. I'm running a Steel Defender in a pretty diverse group (a Paladin, a Druid, a Fighter/Rogue, a Barbarian, and a Rune Knight Fighter who loves polearms). I pretty much never swap out my Infusions (I know 8 and can only have 4 running at once) because our team has some pretty good tactics worked out by now (we're level 10 and headed to 11 soon). I use a light crossbow with the Repeating Shot infusion, I have the Homunculus Servant, a Mind Sharpener item to help maintain concentration, and a Helm of Awareness. This last item went to the Druid because our particular strategy usually calls for him to cast area spells on the enemies before the melee people charge in. Having him gain Advantage on Initiative works better for ALL of us.
Nobody in my party has ever ASKED me for an infusion except as a short-term thing like Sending Stones so a split party can communicate or whatever. I volunteered the Helm of Awareness after seeing our Druid max out his Initiative once and then stick it to the enemy with all sorts of area control spells. Him going sooner works well for the whole party.
I can see where the OP is coming from though. I think of how my infusions can benefit me first and I only offer them to others if I think that doing so works better than me having one more item. However, our party is more tightly-knit than others, I think. Most of us have taken subclasses and figured out how to cover each other pretty well.
If the group is asking the Artificer to give out magic items, then the dynamic ought to be that ALL the magic items go to the Artificer, and they get to decide which items and infusions go to which people for maximum impact. They get to make that decision, not other people. If the party isn’t okay with that dynamic, then the Artificer gets to keep their Infused Items. You keep your items, they keep theirs. Simple.
You should be using whatever resources you have at your disposal in whatever manor works best for the entire party, not just yourself. Such is true of every single class in the game. Anything less is a symptom of Maine Character Syndrome.
You should be using whatever resources you have at your disposal in whatever manor works best for the entire party, not just yourself. Such is true of every single class in the game. Anything less is a symptom of Maine Character Syndrome.
Ah, so artificer infusions go to everybody else, no? In that case, how about those magic items that aren't infusions? Oh, what? Artificer can create their own magical items?
If the artificer gets the best benefit from the infusions, or could make the most use of them, than he should.
The rest of what you said isn't making any sense at all... why are you even mentioning magic items that aren't infusions? Those should also be distributed to whichever party members would make the best use of them.
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
This thread reminds me of the misquote "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." I have to wonder how many of the people saying artificers should be magic item vending machines play artificers, or are they the kids looking for free candy. Because it's a whole different campaign depending on which end of the pipeline you hang out at.
At the end of the day infusions are a class feature. And it's the duty and right of every player to decide how to use their class features.
I think it'd be bad form to dictate to the Wizard how he ought to be preparing and casting his spells, or to the bard precisely to whom she should grant bardic inspiration and when, etc. Yes, one could always seek the most optimal strategy for the party but the important part is the freedom to choose what to do with their character.
If the Artificer is asking for opinions or advice, then cool, feel free to give it. Even asking to use specific infused items is permissible. But demands on the Artificer on what they should do or what they should share are just as obnoxious as trying to play another player's character for them by dictating what spells the wizard should prepare or cast in any given situation.
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
this is such a silly perspective. You act like artificers are useless aside from their crafting? you know they have decent spells and combat abilities in their own right don't you? if thats really how you feel, why play artificer?
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
this is such a silly perspective. You act like artificers are useless aside from their crafting? you know they have decent spells and combat abilities in their own right don't you? if thats really how you feel, why play artificer?
You just answered your own question. If you want to reduce the artificer to their spells, why even play artificer? Just play sorcerer or wizard or something. It's like being told that a cleric can only use their spell slots to heal the rest of the party. At that point, you're nothing but an HP dispenser.
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
this is such a silly perspective. You act like artificers are useless aside from their crafting? you know they have decent spells and combat abilities in their own right don't you? if thats really how you feel, why play artificer?
Artificers aren't useless aside from their crafting. They have battle smith, which is strong. They have armorer, and they have artillerist. They can make cool robots, cool armor, or cool cannons.
You know what the other half casters get? Features part of the main class. Ranger gets favored foe. Ranger gets vanish. They also get a useless feature called hide in plain sight, but they also have a role that isn't *spell spell spell*. Ranger also gets a FIGHTING STYLE. Oh, and paladins? Divine Smite, Smite Spells, Fighting Style, Lay on Hands, Divine Sense, and more. Artificer? mAgIcAl TiNkErInG, the BeSt FeAtUrE iN dNd, and features that boost their usage of magical items. Tibryn, I suggest you try playing an artificer and give away all your magic items. Have fun being sorely underpowered!
I agree with Yurei, 100%. My artillerist just hit 8th level. He can have 3 infusions active. These are usually Enhanced Arcane Focus, Enhanced Defense and Spell Refueling Ring.
In our six player party, everyone- except the artificer- has gotten multiple magic items. Our fighter, bladesinger and warlock already dominate combat, especially with Sentinel Shield, Rod of the Pact Keeper, Sun Blade (and more.)
Nary an immovable rod, smoldering armor or lowly alchemy jug for our poor artificer.
Now, why exactly, should I give one of my precious three infusions to one of them? More importantly, how is that fun for the artificer?
F*ck sharing. Without those infusions, the character goes from an afterthought to a footnote. It is one thing to play a support character, and teamwork is both rewarding and fun, but nobody rolls initiative to be a simple cheerleader.
When my character can infuse winged boots at level 10, I am gong to take flight, cast pyrotechnics, strike a pose and ask how they like them apples?
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
this is such a silly perspective. You act like artificers are useless aside from their crafting? you know they have decent spells and combat abilities in their own right don't you? if thats really how you feel, why play artificer?
I challenge you to play a 1/3 partial caster artificer with no infusions, while the rest of your party is miles ahead of you, and tell me if the experience was fun or effective .
you guys are on some shit.. if other party members are wearing you're infusions and it's helping them, what the **** is you're problem? you're contributing... It's like saying bard should only ever inspire himself or cutting words when the attack is directed at him, or a cleric should only ever heal himself. Dnd is a group game, it's not about you.
you guys are on some shit.. if other party members are wearing you're infusions and it's helping them, what the **** is you're problem? you're contributing... It's like saying bard should only ever inspire himself or cutting words when the attack is directed at him, or a cleric should only ever heal himself. Dnd is a group game, it's not about you.
D&D is a group game, and in a group that includes an artificer, that artificer is an equal member of that group. No one's saying "Never hand out your infusions." They're saying the artificer should be able to use some or all of their infusions without being called greedy. We're saying the artificer shouldn't have to or be expected to neglect themselves in the process of benefiting the party.
Boosting an artificer's attack bonus from +3 to +4 might not be as optimal as boosting the fighter's bonus from +4 to +5 in terms of damage dealt to enemies, but both lead to contributions that benefit the party.
Boosting the fighter leads to the artificer hanging back and not contributing as directly in combat. Boosting the artificer leads to the artificer participating directly.
In either case the fighter will still fight because that's what the class is 100% all about the only difference to the fighter is how often they'll hit and how much damage they do.
My example is an oversimplification and ignores things like spellcasting or resistance to nonmagical weapons but this is the gist of the point:
An artificer can hand out their infusions and contribute indirectly or an artificer can use their infusions on themselves and contribute directly. Some artificer players prefer to boost passively and take more of a backseat in combat, other artificer players want to take a more active role. The artificer should be allowed to choose their style of play without being made to feel guilty about it. Even if passively benefiting the party might be a slightly more optimal strategy.
Given that an artificer is a half caster with far fewer spells and slots than a mage, etc that mindsharpener is actually best used by the artificer to maintain their limited abilities than it is being given to the mage to use when they have enough slots to recast the spell if needed. Generally infusions given out to the party actually weaken the party overall as they weaken the artificer more than they strengthen the party member receiving the infusion. There are cases ( like the one I provided) where that might not be true, but they are not the majority. Rather they are occasional special cases. Artificers were given infusions to benefit the artificer so the artificer strengthens their party - not to be given out to the party leaving the artificer as the weak link in the team. The question should always be - What role is the artificer playing this time and what fusions do they need to best lay that role to max capacity. Then if there are infusions left giving them out to party members does make sense - but never at th expense of the artificer maximizing their own capabilities first. At L13 the artificer knows 8 different fusions but can only have 4 active, that is 4 key abilities/pieces of kit you want to take away, not replace and then you spect the artificer to be happy and function at peak performance? PLEASE!
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I've been considering creating a homebrewed archetype called the Crafter. It would gain additional infusions (either Int-based or proficiency based) and these additional infused items could only be used by someone other than the artificer.
The Crafter would also have enhanced ability when creating magic items and for improving his own infused items . . .
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I firmly believe that this comes down to a combination of the Artificer player's play style and the party composition. I'm running a Steel Defender in a pretty diverse group (a Paladin, a Druid, a Fighter/Rogue, a Barbarian, and a Rune Knight Fighter who loves polearms). I pretty much never swap out my Infusions (I know 8 and can only have 4 running at once) because our team has some pretty good tactics worked out by now (we're level 10 and headed to 11 soon). I use a light crossbow with the Repeating Shot infusion, I have the Homunculus Servant, a Mind Sharpener item to help maintain concentration, and a Helm of Awareness. This last item went to the Druid because our particular strategy usually calls for him to cast area spells on the enemies before the melee people charge in. Having him gain Advantage on Initiative works better for ALL of us.
Nobody in my party has ever ASKED me for an infusion except as a short-term thing like Sending Stones so a split party can communicate or whatever. I volunteered the Helm of Awareness after seeing our Druid max out his Initiative once and then stick it to the enemy with all sorts of area control spells. Him going sooner works well for the whole party.
I can see where the OP is coming from though. I think of how my infusions can benefit me first and I only offer them to others if I think that doing so works better than me having one more item. However, our party is more tightly-knit than others, I think. Most of us have taken subclasses and figured out how to cover each other pretty well.
If the group is asking the Artificer to give out magic items, then the dynamic ought to be that ALL the magic items go to the Artificer, and they get to decide which items and infusions go to which people for maximum impact. They get to make that decision, not other people. If the party isn’t okay with that dynamic, then the Artificer gets to keep their Infused Items. You keep your items, they keep theirs. Simple.
You should be using whatever resources you have at your disposal in whatever manor works best for the entire party, not just yourself. Such is true of every single class in the game. Anything less is a symptom of Maine Character Syndrome.
Ah, so artificer infusions go to everybody else, no? In that case, how about those magic items that aren't infusions? Oh, what? Artificer can create their own magical items?
Illogical logic 9.0
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
If the artificer gets the best benefit from the infusions, or could make the most use of them, than he should.
The rest of what you said isn't making any sense at all... why are you even mentioning magic items that aren't infusions? Those should also be distributed to whichever party members would make the best use of them.
See? No.
The artificer should do what the artificer player finds the most fun/engaging, while respecting the fun of everyone else at the table. Using your artificer as nothing but a magic-item gacha dispenser that doesn't even get to play the game, turning them into a shitty NPC whose sole job is to sit in town and manufacture items for the real adventurers, is the "Main Character Syndrome" issue, not letting the artificer play their class. You're insisting that someone you supposedly call a friend sit there with their thumb up their ass making two crafting rolls every other session and doing nothing else during the game except listening to everyone else adventure - how is that not worse by far than the artificer playing their infusions how they wish to?
Please do not contact or message me.
This thread reminds me of the misquote "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." I have to wonder how many of the people saying artificers should be magic item vending machines play artificers, or are they the kids looking for free candy. Because it's a whole different campaign depending on which end of the pipeline you hang out at.
At the end of the day infusions are a class feature. And it's the duty and right of every player to decide how to use their class features.
I think it'd be bad form to dictate to the Wizard how he ought to be preparing and casting his spells, or to the bard precisely to whom she should grant bardic inspiration and when, etc. Yes, one could always seek the most optimal strategy for the party but the important part is the freedom to choose what to do with their character.
If the Artificer is asking for opinions or advice, then cool, feel free to give it. Even asking to use specific infused items is permissible. But demands on the Artificer on what they should do or what they should share are just as obnoxious as trying to play another player's character for them by dictating what spells the wizard should prepare or cast in any given situation.
this is such a silly perspective. You act like artificers are useless aside from their crafting? you know they have decent spells and combat abilities in their own right don't you? if thats really how you feel, why play artificer?
You just answered your own question. If you want to reduce the artificer to their spells, why even play artificer? Just play sorcerer or wizard or something.
It's like being told that a cleric can only use their spell slots to heal the rest of the party. At that point, you're nothing but an HP dispenser.
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Artificers aren't useless aside from their crafting. They have battle smith, which is strong. They have armorer, and they have artillerist. They can make cool robots, cool armor, or cool cannons.
You know what the other half casters get? Features part of the main class. Ranger gets favored foe. Ranger gets vanish. They also get a useless feature called hide in plain sight, but they also have a role that isn't *spell spell spell*. Ranger also gets a FIGHTING STYLE. Oh, and paladins? Divine Smite, Smite Spells, Fighting Style, Lay on Hands, Divine Sense, and more. Artificer? mAgIcAl TiNkErInG, the BeSt FeAtUrE iN dNd, and features that boost their usage of magical items. Tibryn, I suggest you try playing an artificer and give away all your magic items. Have fun being sorely underpowered!
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
I agree with Yurei, 100%. My artillerist just hit 8th level. He can have 3 infusions active. These are usually Enhanced Arcane Focus, Enhanced Defense and Spell Refueling Ring.
In our six player party, everyone- except the artificer- has gotten multiple magic items. Our fighter, bladesinger and warlock already dominate combat, especially with Sentinel Shield, Rod of the Pact Keeper, Sun Blade (and more.)
Nary an immovable rod, smoldering armor or lowly alchemy jug for our poor artificer.
Now, why exactly, should I give one of my precious three infusions to one of them? More importantly, how is that fun for the artificer?
F*ck sharing. Without those infusions, the character goes from an afterthought to a footnote. It is one thing to play a support character, and teamwork is both rewarding and fun, but nobody rolls initiative to be a simple cheerleader.
When my character can infuse winged boots at level 10, I am gong to take flight, cast pyrotechnics, strike a pose and ask how they like them apples?
I challenge you to play a
1/3partial caster artificer with no infusions, while the rest of your party is miles ahead of you, and tell me if the experience was fun or effective .Ok, so, actually, Artificers are 2/3 casters, but I agree with the message.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
OK. I fixed it. I just turned level 9 and got Fireball. Whatever it is, those spell slots come sloooowwwly....
you guys are on some shit.. if other party members are wearing you're infusions and it's helping them, what the **** is you're problem? you're contributing... It's like saying bard should only ever inspire himself or cutting words when the attack is directed at him, or a cleric should only ever heal himself. Dnd is a group game, it's not about you.
D&D is a group game, and in a group that includes an artificer, that artificer is an equal member of that group. No one's saying "Never hand out your infusions." They're saying the artificer should be able to use some or all of their infusions without being called greedy. We're saying the artificer shouldn't have to or be expected to neglect themselves in the process of benefiting the party.
Boosting an artificer's attack bonus from +3 to +4 might not be as optimal as boosting the fighter's bonus from +4 to +5 in terms of damage dealt to enemies, but both lead to contributions that benefit the party.
Boosting the fighter leads to the artificer hanging back and not contributing as directly in combat.
Boosting the artificer leads to the artificer participating directly.
In either case the fighter will still fight because that's what the class is 100% all about the only difference to the fighter is how often they'll hit and how much damage they do.
My example is an oversimplification and ignores things like spellcasting or resistance to nonmagical weapons but this is the gist of the point:
An artificer can hand out their infusions and contribute indirectly or an artificer can use their infusions on themselves and contribute directly. Some artificer players prefer to boost passively and take more of a backseat in combat, other artificer players want to take a more active role. The artificer should be allowed to choose their style of play without being made to feel guilty about it. Even if passively benefiting the party might be a slightly more optimal strategy.
Here, let's go ahead and compare Artificer to Bard. Infusions boost the party, so do bards. What's the difference?
There is none? Well, how about this:
"Hey, the blindsight fighter who killed the *cool creature* was wearing my armor!"
"Hey, my smart placement of darkness let the blindsight fighter kill the *insert cool creature*"
Even if the Artificer does give away the infusions, it feels less helpful than contributing directly, such as with darkness.
Also, what unclevertitle said.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian