If the fighty-Bards get extra attack and armor, and the social-bards get stuff for that, the caster-Bard should have an attack cantrip that scales well and gives them a button to push when they can't do much else. The Bard is supposed to be versatile. This is one angle they aren't, and Lore is the perfect place for it.
They are versatile and just need to add that cantrip at 6th level when those other choices get those things.
That would be a huge waste when Counterspell and a real AOE are right there.
Nah.
Nothing would be broken and the subclass would be better if Lore got a choice of a cantrip or two at 3rd level. They could also add something like Mind Sliver to the list of available cantrips, and that wouldn't be bad. Also in line with Bard playstyle, since it's a solid debuff with decent damage that targets a weak save.
That would be a huge waste when Counterspell and a real AOE are right there.
Nah.
Nothing would be broken and the subclass would be better if Lore got a choice of a cantrip or two at 3rd level. They could also add something like Mind Sliver to the list of available cantrips, and that wouldn't be bad. Also in line with Bard playstyle, since it's a solid debuff with decent damage that targets a weak save.
I can agree with mind sliver being added. It seems to fit in the bard's spells and I was a bit surprised it wasn't.
So, we can all agree that adding one or more damage cantrips to one of the Bard colleges would be a straight up buff, right?
And do we think Bards need a buff? Especially the college that's """supposed""" to have such an option?
Because it seems to me like Bard is doing just fine, sitting as one of the best classes in the game and performing (ha!) its suite of roles admirably. I mean, I guess you could cut something in order to make room for this damage option, but what would you cut? A damage cantrip isn't going to fit the class better than any of the stuff it already has.
Yes, having now played a bard for many months, I think they need this. We can call it a "buff", but that's using MMO lingo and I don't think that's really all that useful for TTRPG gaming (as much as it happens, I think it's sort of silly. Buff and Nerf typically are terms reserved for games which include an element of competitiveness against other players, and that's not D&D).
I think of it as a quality of life enhancement for the class. It may just be through my own play lens, but my experience has been that my round-to-round viability has sufffered *greatly* in Tier 2 play, and that other casting classes would be able to conserve spell slots and do their jobs better than I can as a Bard because they have access to at least one solid combat cantrip.
I play in two campaigns right now - Rime of the Frostmaiden as my Lore Bard, and Candlkeep Mysteries as my Abjuration Wizard. By far and away, my Wizard feels like he does his job every single turn, and with some effectiveness. Weather he's controlling or blasting, or just casting a decent cantrip. My Bard, however, has to spend spell slots nearly every turn to do something useful at his level. His weapons do precious little damage and are honestly a waste of an action, and Vicious Mockery is very lackluster as an action. Bonus action economy for Lore bards is pretty terrible (Sure, I can give out inspiration, but I typically have to save those for clutch Cutting Words as a reaction). I have a variety of useful spells, to be sure, and I think I've done a good job of rounding out my spell selection, and I'm a smart player who makes good choices, but I can't escape the feeling that I am a drag on the group in many rounds if I'm not spending a spell slot. That's not true with a lot of casters. YMMV, but I don't think my experiences are invalid or derive from bad play on my part. Bards need one offensive cantrip that's more impactful than VM. It's really that simple.
There's other, out of the box ways you could fix it. Let Bards of certain subclasses add Charisma to Vicious Mockery. You could add Mind Sliver to the cantrip list, as suggested above. You could allow Lore bards Magical secrets at 3rd for cantrips only.
Hate to be the guy who double taps, but I think I centered in on the underlying cause of what I'm experiencing as a Bard player, and why I'm leaning towards dipping into something like Sorc of Hexblade to fix it.
So, my job in combat as a Lore bard in my party is largely one of battlefield control. I've picked this because it does all the jobs I'm called upon to do as the only spellcaster in my party (we had a Cleric but they couldn't stick with the game). I have to heal, control, and support, in addition to some blasting. Typically this means I patch everyone up after the fight or stand them up during the fight with low-level cure spells, but my primary job is to drop a strong control spell out of the gates and then hold concentration on it. This is usually something like Hypnotic Pattern, Slow, Hold Person, etc.
Once I've dropped that big concentration effect, I'm not actively doing anything of any impact on successive turns. And that's the difference between my Bard and my Wizard. He does the same battlefield control (he does it better, honestly) - drop a big impactful concentration spell, and then blast away turn by turn. And that's what the Lore Bard perhaps is missing, and why so many people I think consider dipping out of Bard for some round-to-round impact. I don't have a nice Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, or Ray of Frost (or Toll the Dead, or whatever) to throw out. I have Vicious Mockery, and it's a mockery of itself.
So I think that's it. Just because you're doing something (say, holding slow on someone and maybe using your reaction to try and turn narrow hits into misses with cutting words) with concentration doesn't mean you feel like you're doing anything once that spell is in place. You mostly feel like your control over weather or not it holds is at that point entirely beyond you, and you still feel a drive to contribute once your concentration is set. Were I playing a Swords bard, I'd be swinging twice a round. If I were a Whispers bard, I could do some spike damage with Psychic Blades. But with Lore, I have to dig into my spell slots to contribute meaningful damage or healing once my concentration slot is occupied. And if you're facing something you can't control (say, Undead when you have Hypnotic pattern, etc), then you can't do the control thing *and* you don't have a workhorse action to go to.
So I'm just hearing that Vicious Mockery isn't good, basically. I can't agree. I think it's great.
Also, depending on how a DM interprets the relative word salad that is the Spiritual Focus feature for College of Spirits, that's the college that adds bonus damage to Mockery. It already exists! Sort of. Again, word salad. It's how my DM ruled it, anyway.
You don't need to dip into another class to "fix" College of Lore.
I think you're approaching this from a misconception that you have to do just as much with your action as everyone else, but that's not really true when you have access to so much you can do with a bonus action or reaction. But even then, it's not like Lore has no options.
If you still desperately want more cantrips, you can take a feat at 4th level, or use one or both of your Additional Magical Secrets at 6th level to take any cantrip you like with no multiclassing required. I also think you're being overly harsh on Vicious Mockery; the point of it isn't so much the damage, it's the fact that the damage isn't commonly resisted, and its save type is commonly poor, which makes it a fairly reliable way to interfere with enemy attacks (good for limiting the enemies that escape your control spells, especially if they're of the fewer, stronger attacks variety).
While I do agree that it's strange that Bards didn't get access to Mind Sliver, College of Lore is the one Bard sub-class that can take it anyway at 6th level. This is part of what makes the additional magical secrets the very thing you say you want, because before 5th level cantrips on just compete with single weapon attacks, and likewise compete with Extra Attack from 5th onwards, but for martial Bards we don't get Extra Attack until 6th,; Additional Magical Secrets is the Lore equivalent, as it lets you take one or two attack cantrips that compete with a Swords or Valor's twin attacks, but with the option for more variety of damage types, saves targeted and rider effects. Of course you can alternatively take spells of 1st level or higher (or take one of each), it depends upon what exactly you want to build.
I've been playing a College of Lore Bard for nearly 18 months; I grabbed myself Green Flame Blade at 6th level and use that with a rapier when I want to dart in and make a nuisance of myself, but that's the high risk, middling reward option (fits the character though), you can pick a ranged option just as easily. It's also important to remember that College of Lore excels out of combat thanks to a high number of skill proficiencies, you shouldn't expect them to be just as good as the more combat focused Bard sub-classes that don't get that, but even so, Lore competes just fine.
I definitely don't recommend multiclassing just to get cantrips; multiclassing on a full caster delays your spell progression, and that's not something you want to do without really good reason.
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So I'm just hearing that Vicious Mockery isn't good, basically. I can't agree. I think it's great.
Also, depending on how a DM interprets the relative word salad that is the Spiritual Focus feature for College of Spirits, that's the college that adds bonus damage to Mockery. It already exists! Sort of. Again, word salad. It's how my DM ruled it, anyway.
I think this is the correct call; people have been interpreting Spiritual Focus to mean it can only be used with spells that have material components, but nothing in the rules says that you can't use a focus to cast spells that don't have any, the focus just doesn't (normally) do anything extra when you do. It's very, very unlikely that Wizards of the Coast intended for Spiritual Focus to be usable with only like two spells.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
So I'm just hearing that Vicious Mockery isn't good, basically. I can't agree. I think it's great.
Also, depending on how a DM interprets the relative word salad that is the Spiritual Focus feature for College of Spirits, that's the college that adds bonus damage to Mockery. It already exists! Sort of. Again, word salad. It's how my DM ruled it, anyway.
I think this is the correct call; people have been interpreting Spiritual Focus to mean it can only be used with spells that have material components, but nothing in the rules says that you can't use a focus to cast spells that don't have any, the focus just doesn't (normally) do anything extra when you do. It's very, very unlikely that Wizards of the Coast intended for Spiritual Focus to be usable with only like two spells.
It's a little more likely when you consider the spells they can get with Spirit Session and Magical Secrets, but even with that, I'd only bump it up from "very, very unlikely" to "unlikely."
Still, every time you do the math on a dip, it works out to be a very powerful choice for the Bard (because bards suck at low cost sustainable damage).
Level 1 - Variant Human bard of Lore (or Whispers, or Swords) with Eldritch Adept - Devil's Sight.
Do Bard1-6 (maybe 5 with Whispers).
Hexblade 1 - Swap Devil's Sight for Agonizing Blast.
Now you have a single level drop Hexblade with full EB damage and you lose only one level in spell progression. Med armor, shields... That level stings at times (no Secrets till 11th, 5th level spells wait for 10th, etc). Still, it's a one level investment for 2-4 blasts at 1d10+1d6 (because you took Hex) + CHA + Prof Bonus (because you cast Hexblade's curse), and you get Shield and hex at 1st level every rest (or whatever you want to cast at 1st off your spell list). Is the delay ever going to hurt more than just blasting bad guys in the face after you Hypnotize, Hold, Fear, or Slow them? If you want to devote your Bardic dice to killing stuff you can go whispers and make like a psychic rogue. Or you can go swords and play with cantrips and flourishes and the like. In any case, you're basically a full bard but with the amazing benefits of Hexblade's overloaded level 1.
I kind of feel like I wouldn't be longing for that one if my Lore bard didn't have to trade counterspell or fireball off for flame bolt. :P
Honestly, Bards should have access to Booming Blade and Mind Sliver as baseline cantrips as I think about it.
Still, every time you do the math on a dip, it works out to be a very powerful choice for the Bard (because bards suck at low cost sustainable damage).
Level 1 - Variant Human bard of Lore (or Whispers, or Swords) with Eldritch Adept - Devil's Sight.
Do Bard1-6 (maybe 5 with Whispers).
Hexblade 1 - Swap Devil's Sight for Agonizing Blast.
Now you have a single level drop Hexblade with full EB damage and you lose only one level in spell progression. Med armor, shields... That level stings at times (no Secrets till 11th, 5th level spells wait for 10th, etc). Still, it's a one level investment for 2-4 blasts at 1d10+1d6 (because you took Hex) + CHA + Prof Bonus (because you cast Hexblade's curse), and you get Shield and hex at 1st level every rest (or whatever you want to cast at 1st off your spell list). Is the delay ever going to hurt more than just blasting bad guys in the face after you Hypnotize, Hold, Fear, or Slow them? If you want to devote your Bardic dice to killing stuff you can go whispers and make like a psychic rogue. Or you can go swords and play with cantrips and flourishes and the like. In any case, you're basically a full bard but with the amazing benefits of Hexblade's overloaded level 1.
I kind of feel like I wouldn't be longing for that one if my Lore bard didn't have to trade counterspell or fireball off for flame bolt. :P
Honestly, Bards should have access to Booming Blade and Mind Sliver as baseline cantrips as I think about it.
I love this build! Sure, it uses a feat to avoid having to take a 2nd level in warlock, but it better preserves character progression. In a realistic 1-11 campaign, you'll still access 10th lvl magical secrets.
Honestly, sure, hexblade is perhaps the best option because of the armor, shields, shield spell, and hex warrior, but you could easily make the case for any warlock subclass simply because the most important thing is the access to EB+AB, as you're better off firing from a distance anyways. This means you have better flexibility when choosing a subclass for flavor and rp potential rather than going for the low-hanging fruit. Although, if your plan includes warcaster, hexblade's too good to pass up lol, but only if you're a swords bard to include the weapon as a focus bit, or if you come across a ruby of the war mage and don't mind using an attunement slot for it. Otherwise, if you're gunning for 20 CHA asap, any warlock subclass is honestly just as good for all intents and purposes.
The only downside is you'll lose access to 6th level spells in a typical campaign, but honestly, c'mon, one spell a day at the last level vs the ability to carry some real fire power for most of the campaign is easily WORTH it. Maybe it's me, but I don't really feel most of those 6th level spells to be all that impressive anyways aside from mass suggestion, but even that's got the pitfall of not working on charm immune enemies, which by 11th level could easily be common.
Now, the only thing I'd add is you might wanna consider taking that dip after bard 4, so upon entry to tier 2 you have a good damage tool! Although, if you want access to 3rd level spells right away, which is understandable, right after 5 is a good choice too. I personally feel delaying after 6th is too long.
Still, every time you do the math on a dip, it works out to be a very powerful choice for the Bard (because bards suck at low cost sustainable damage).
A Hexblade dip is a strong option for a lot of builds but you're relying on a lot of stuff that a DM may not allow (variant human and multiclassing) to "fix" a problem that you don't really have. While Eldritch Blast does good damage, that's all it does*, and as I've pointed out for College of Lore you don't need to take a feat or multiclass to get it; just take it at 6th level as an Additional Magic Secret, no progression lost.
*(Okay it can do more but you need to invest in the Eldritch Invocations to do it, and I've never liked any of them personally, I prefer other options)
There are a bunch of multiclassing combos that can be similarly "strong" for other classes as well, but these are "power gamer" builds for people who care overly much about damage and nothing else; the question you should be asking is what role do you want to play (it's a roleplaying game after all), because if you think purely in mechanical terms then what are you even playing at the end of it? Your proposed build is forcing you to be a human who's sold their soul to a probably less than savoury being; you're limiting your character when you start thinking purely in mechanical terms.
I'd also point out that Vicious Mockery still has the advantage over Eldritch Blast that while it does less damage, it can also prevent damage by forcing an enemy to miss (which combos well with Cutting Words on another attack, potentially preventing more damage than you will gain from Eldritch Blast). This makes it a much better fit for most Bards as it's supplementing your ability to control enemies in a way that Eldritch Blast does not. And this is what actually makes Bards strong; because through inspiration and control you can actually cause more damage than any other party member, because every attack that hits because of you when it would have missed otherwise is damage you caused, just as every enemy hit that misses because of you is damage that you saved.
Again, the lack of Mind Sliver is a bit of a head scratcher, as it's similar in that you could combo it to help force a failure on a saving throw, no idea why that's not available in the expanded Bard spell list. Not sure I agree about Booming Blade, it's a spell to force an enemy to keep fighting you which seems overly tanky for Bards. You can still take both of these as Additional Magical Secrets on College of Lore though, and 6th level is about where you want to do it anyway (as that's when the dice count increases and BB starts adding damage to the initial attack), this is why there's no need to "fix" College of Lore.
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this is why there's no need to "fix" College of Lore.
You can gain those cantrips with a dip, but you can't gain their 3rd level spells as easily.
Is it a good or bad thing for something to be to considered "power gamey"? Does that even mean anything other than a thinly veiled "we don't take too kindly to your kind 'round these parts"? To say players with an interest in mechanics and fully utilizing them to their advantage care little to nothing for anything else is nothing short of hyperbolic at best, and ignorant at worst.
Thanks to the Custom Lineage option in TCOE, you can be any race you want and still access a feat. Thanks to the versatility in warlock patrons and player creativity, how you come upon those powers is entirely up to you. Wanna be a half-human, half-tabaxi, pseudo-anime-catgirl who was given powers by a cute animal that can talk, to mirror the typical magical girl origin story? That's an option that allows a feat, and doesn't have anything to do with the common faustian explanation of a warlock gaining their powers or being a variant human. If you want to rebuttal this argument with "well, not every DM allows them," well, not every player has to settle for every DM. Players can also walk away! You'll likely run into a DM that allows them more often than not.
Now, I won't argue vicious mockery has its time and place, and in the case of a straight bard, that time and place is most of the time and in most places. But to say it has an advantage over eldritch blast is largely a matter of opinion, for I could just as easily assert that eldritch blast has the advantage of dealing damage that actually matters. But that's not actually true, for both are designed to do different things. They fulfill different purposes, so you can't compare them as one having the advantage over the other.
Besides, this argument made is addressing a comment for bards in general. Not every bard will have the option to take a cantrip of their choice at 6th level. What if I'm a glamour bard, or an eloquence bard? Even then, so what if I can take a cantrip at 6th level? I could use both secrets to get booming blade and eldritch blast, or I could just dip a level into warlock and have both, along with the spells and features offered, and still have my pick for any 3rd level spell or below as I please.
Sure, there's nothing to """""fix""""". But, so long as what they're doing is within the rules, what a player chooses to do with their pc is up to them. That's their prerogative. If I want to take a miata sport scar, make it front wheel drive, and swap out its tiny engine with a big boy LS engine, that's my expression of what I like in a car. Sure, the original didn't need any of that, and almost everyone would argue that I just stripped away what made it a miata in the first place, but if that's what makes me happy and what I wanted to do, then who are you to say it's incorrect?
Is it a good or bad thing for something to be to considered "power gamey"? Does that even mean anything other than a thinly veiled "we don't take too kindly to your kind 'round these parts"? To say players with an interest in mechanics and fully utilizing them to their advantage care little to nothing for anything else is nothing short of hyperbolic at best, and ignorant at worst.
My point isn't that you can't ever multiclass, but if you're doing it for purely mechanical reasons then the obvious question is why?
A Bard's primary strength is in maximising the party; every attack of theirs that hits because of you is damage you caused, likewise every enemy attack that misses is damage that you saved. It's too easy to compare the damage your attacks do to the damage someone else's do and think "oh no I'm a weak little baby" but if they are only hitting because of something you did then their damage is your damage.
Now if that's not the type of Bard you want to build that's fine, there are options, but the more you lean on dealing damage the less Bard you're going to be; and the earlier criticism was that Lore should be the blaster Bard, but it already basically is (access to any two cantrips or spells you like at 6th). If that's not enough then what the person wants to play isn't really a Bard, it's something else; again that's fine, but it should really be done for character reasons not just because of an obsession with damage numbers (which is frankly a toxic condition that you see a lot, especially online). After all, it's a roleplaying game; build what fits the role, don't mash a role onto power builds, that's playing the game the wrong way round.
The OP just wanted some tips on playing their Bard in combat; radically changing what they're playing through multiclassing (especially one that would also rely on them changing their race) with the intention of "fixing" something that isn't broken doesn't really fit into tip territory IMO.
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My take on Vicious Mockery is that it hasn't been a useful action for my bard to take since about level 4 or so. Disadvantage on a single attack is kind of meaningless when I can take my action to do more than that, and *kind of have to* do more than give disadvantage to a single attack of theirs. If they fail their save. It doesn't hit hard enough to be worthwhile as a whole turn's action, and the debuff doesn't do enough when monsters typically attack 2-3 times in a round. It's just... bad. It's fun! But it's not good.
I don't think there is anything radical about adding a better cantrip to the Bard list, and I think if there was something there (or if VM was better), you wouldn't see as many people consider a dip in the first place.
Still, every time you do the math on a dip, it works out to be a very powerful choice for the Bard (because bards suck at low cost sustainable damage).
Level 1 - Variant Human bard of Lore (or Whispers, or Swords) with Eldritch Adept - Devil's Sight.
Do Bard1-6 (maybe 5 with Whispers).
Hexblade 1 - Swap Devil's Sight for Agonizing Blast.
Now you have a single level drop Hexblade with full EB damage and you lose only one level in spell progression. Med armor, shields... That level stings at times (no Secrets till 11th, 5th level spells wait for 10th, etc). Still, it's a one level investment for 2-4 blasts at 1d10+1d6 (because you took Hex) + CHA + Prof Bonus (because you cast Hexblade's curse), and you get Shield and hex at 1st level every rest (or whatever you want to cast at 1st off your spell list). Is the delay ever going to hurt more than just blasting bad guys in the face after you Hypnotize, Hold, Fear, or Slow them? If you want to devote your Bardic dice to killing stuff you can go whispers and make like a psychic rogue. Or you can go swords and play with cantrips and flourishes and the like. In any case, you're basically a full bard but with the amazing benefits of Hexblade's overloaded level 1.
I kind of feel like I wouldn't be longing for that one if my Lore bard didn't have to trade counterspell or fireball off for flame bolt. :P
Honestly, Bards should have access to Booming Blade and Mind Sliver as baseline cantrips as I think about it.
I would point out that at low levels there's no difference in damage. Your hexblade who does d8+3 isn't doing more than the bard using a weapon doing d8+3 ;-)
Make the same variant human, use the feat for moderately armored for the same AC and you have sleep available immediately and no level delays. You can pick up eldritch blast through secrets too and agonizing blast via any ASI/feat level you like.
Hexblade is a better dip than fighter but still has those delayed levels that hurt.
My other thoughts....
Devil's sight is over-rated in a party.
Counterspell has issues because there are too many ways around it and needing to use your reaction to identify a spell being cast makes the reaction no longer available to cast counterspell in the first place causing forced blind counterspelling. I prefer dispel magic without needing secrets. Counterspell is good when it's good but it's too situational.
Hex loses value quickly because bards carry too many competing good concentration spells and using rituals (or any spell with a casting time more than 1 action) also breaks hex. Renewing hex repeatedly becomes hard on spell slots.
If you don't mind a build that takes a long time to come online you can go valor bard for the armor and then use magical secrets at some point for shield and eldritch blast. Still use a feat to pick up agonizing blast. Strong defensively and at 14th level your pure bard casts agonizing EB's and then also gets to add a bonus action weapon attack every time for better at-will damage than your splashed option, and you can still add hex by then if you do want it.
It's a long time to wait though. That's why I'm more likely to make a valor bard who takes advantage of his extra attack feature using weapons, or just pick up a damage cantrip on non-weapon focused bards, or just ignore the damage because I'm spending my action economy on healing, control, and status effects.
this is why there's no need to "fix" College of Lore.
Now, I won't argue vicious mockery has its time and place, and in the case of a straight bard, that time and place is most of the time and in most places. But to say it has an advantage over eldritch blast is largely a matter of opinion, for I could just as easily assert that eldritch blast has the advantage of dealing damage that actually matters.
I argued it, but that's because it's about the weakest damage in the game and the benefit (disadvantage) is available from many other resources. Minor illusion or mage hand are more useful when cantrips known are limited.
It's definitely not the best most of the time and in most places on a bard. That's just an option and an opinion I do not share. I wouldn't stop someone from using vicious mockery if he/she/they is having fun but I don't think it's worth the action cost because more damage dropping an opponent prevents less damage in the long run. ;-)
The issue I have with multi-classing is waiting for the good stuff. Hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc prevent a lot more damage faster than doing more damage or spamming vicious mockery.
Now, I won't argue vicious mockery has its time and place, and in the case of a straight bard, that time and place is most of the time and in most places. But to say it has an advantage over eldritch blast is largely a matter of opinion, for I could just as easily assert that eldritch blast has the advantage of dealing damage that actually matters.
I argued it, but that's because it's about the weakest damage in the game and the benefit (disadvantage) is available from many other resources. Minor illusion or mage hand are more useful when cantrips known are limited.
It's definitely not the best most of the time and in most places on a bard. That's just an option and an opinion I do not share. I wouldn't stop someone from using vicious mockery if he/she/they is having fun but I don't think it's worth the action cost because more damage dropping an opponent prevents less damage in the long run. ;-)
The issue I have with multi-classing is waiting for the good stuff. Hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc prevent a lot more damage faster than doing more damage or spamming vicious mockery.
You familiar with that one scene from The Fairly OddParents, where Timmy asks his parents when are they getting on the ride in Escalator Land? He's then told "this IS the ride." Multi-classing IS the good stuff.
Now, minor illusion or mage hand are indeed really good cantrips that I believe are better than vicious mockery... outside of combat. If you want to argue about how those cantrips are better IN combat, well, you're entering the realm of DM fiat and we can't make concluding generalizations on such grounds. Now, if you want to go on about these sources of disadvantage, I can guarantee you they either aren't coming from a cheap resource, or would place the bard in excessive risk. Grappling and shoving is a cheap way to impose disadvantage, but you do so at your own peril. Off the top of my head, I'm unable to name some concentration spells for imposing disadvantage, but I'd chalk that up to my own fault. If there were, it would not change the decision to use and maintain concentration on a different spell, for whatever reason it may be. Outside of grappling and shoving, I'm having a hard time of listing a reliably cheap method of imposing disadvantage.
VM then provides a way to impose disadvantage both cheaply and safely, without using concentration. If you want to decide that the few, minuscule points of damage shooting a crossbow is worth trading away disadvantage on an attack, be my guest. You still ain't doing much either way, so you might as well impose disadvantage. If you want to run in melee as a lore bard with two-weapon fighting in some attempt to deal damage that maybe barely inches its way out of single-digits DPR territory, sir, I tip my hat to you in a brave salute.
Now, you're right about hypnotic pattern, slow, fear etc all doing a better job than a single cantrip does at preventing damage... but you know what's even better at preventing damage? Using VM while you're concentrating on hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc. Fact.
Now, I won't argue vicious mockery has its time and place, and in the case of a straight bard, that time and place is most of the time and in most places. But to say it has an advantage over eldritch blast is largely a matter of opinion, for I could just as easily assert that eldritch blast has the advantage of dealing damage that actually matters.
I argued it, but that's because it's about the weakest damage in the game and the benefit (disadvantage) is available from many other resources. Minor illusion or mage hand are more useful when cantrips known are limited.
It's definitely not the best most of the time and in most places on a bard. That's just an option and an opinion I do not share. I wouldn't stop someone from using vicious mockery if he/she/they is having fun but I don't think it's worth the action cost because more damage dropping an opponent prevents less damage in the long run. ;-)
The issue I have with multi-classing is waiting for the good stuff. Hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc prevent a lot more damage faster than doing more damage or spamming vicious mockery.
You familiar with that one scene from The Fairly OddParents, where Timmy asks his parents when are they getting on the ride in Escalator Land? He's then told "this IS the ride." Multi-classing IS the good stuff.
Now, minor illusion or mage hand are indeed really good cantrips that I believe are better than vicious mockery... outside of combat. If you want to argue about how those cantrips are better IN combat, well, you're entering the realm of DM fiat and we can't make concluding generalizations on such grounds. Now, if you want to go on about these sources of disadvantage, I can guarantee you they either aren't coming from a cheap resource, or would place the bard in excessive risk. Grappling and shoving is a cheap way to impose disadvantage, but you do so at your own peril. Off the top of my head, I'm unable to name some concentration spells for imposing disadvantage, but I'd chalk that up to my own fault. If there were, it would not change the decision to use and maintain concentration on a different spell, for whatever reason it may be. Outside of grappling and shoving, I'm having a hard time of listing a reliably cheap method of imposing disadvantage.
VM then provides a way to impose disadvantage both cheaply and safely, without using concentration. If you want to decide that the few, minuscule points of damage shooting a crossbow is worth trading away disadvantage on an attack, be my guest. You still ain't doing much either way, so you might as well impose disadvantage. If you want to run in melee as a lore bard with two-weapon fighting in some attempt to deal damage that maybe barely inches its way out of single-digits DPR territory, sir, I tip my hat to you in a brave salute.
Now, you're right about hypnotic pattern, slow, fear etc all doing a better job than a single cantrip does at preventing damage... but you know what's even better at preventing damage? Using VM while you're concentrating on hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc. Fact.
Vicious mockery vs weapon damage isn't a miniscule difference just because you say it is. It's more than twice the damage easily. Check your math. ;-)
Your DC is 13 at that low tier. With no bonus to saves at all 65% chance for an average of 2.5 damage and averages 1.6 damage per round. The damage is absolute trash. Disadvantage is the only reason to use it at all, which doesn't stack with other sources of disadvantage that are available.
That goes down with save bonuses.
The common 13 AC with a crossbow hits 65% of the time as well. 5% of that chance is a crit. That averages 5.1 damage per round or a bit more than 3x the damage. This also goes down as AC goes up but requires comparing a high AC target and a low save target to become a small difference.
Before anyone claims that the weapon damage is weak it's not. It's the same damage options most classes are using for weapons outside of a small bonus possible in fighting styles.
It's extra attack and bonuses that make the diffey later, when more spell slots become available and the hard is less likely to be spamming cantrips or weapon attacks.
Claiming weapon attacks in that 1st tier aren't worthwhile is basically the equivalent of saying most weapon attacks aren't worthwhile when clearly damage does need done.
The difference is also dropping those low CR monsters.
The average 7.5 damage hit one-shots goblins and kobolds. The 15 AC on a goblin means typically 55% one-shot in the first attack and high chance in the second attack.
That same goblin actually has a penalty to the save so the bard has 70% chance to do 2.5 damage and inflict disadvantage on attacks. This takes 4 rounds on average to drop the target with disadvantage on 2 of those rounds and no effect on the other round.
The crossbow method drops the target in 1-2 rounds denying all attacks for 3-4 of the same rounds. The crossbow method would drop a second target while the vicious mockery method is still working on the first. No attacks is better than attacking with disadvantage.
The crossbow prevents more damage than vicious mockery against those low hit point targets. That breaks the "lore bard should use vicious mockery most of the time" argument. The better approach depends on the target, making vicious mockery situational.
For vicious mockery to become more useful the increased DC at higher levels helps and the damage becomes better against lower hit point targets. Taking it at 10th level is when it's becoming more useful because of damage and DC by then but it's also when the need to spend actions on cantrips or attacks has greatly diminished.
Even at 4th level preparing for 5th level the chance to on-shot trash mobs is better than a chance to inflict 5 damage and disadvantage on a single attack.
For vicious mockery to do much there needs to be a target that cannot be quickly dispatched through damage or other means and that action cannot have a better choice at the time. It does become better at dealing with trash mobs with that 3rd die but still situational.
Damage is always applicable to combat and the crossbow comes with with no opportunity cost that the limited selection of cantrips does.
I never got into the benefits of mage hand or minor illusion in combat because we were comparing vicious mockery to weapon damage as the action in combat. I explicitly called them out as out-of-combat benefits at some point.
Since you brought it up, however, mage hand can be used to hold the torch or lantern a character would need for a light source to enable two handed weapons or fighting with two weapons for the damage benefit or a shield and weapon for the defensive benefit in addition to other uses. No DM fiat on light rules.
My minor illusion can be used to replicate cover as an illusion. Until the opponents figure out the illusion they will aim for the portion showing or possibly move. There are cover, line of sight, and hiding in combat rules that can be applied by using minor illusion.
Vicious mockery has no out-of -combat application.
And as I also said, there are other ways to inflict disadvantage. A lot of them because it's a common mechanic.
You guys can have fun with it, but it doesn't seem to be worth selecting over other cantrips.
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They are versatile and just need to add that cantrip at 6th level when those other choices get those things.
That would be a huge waste when Counterspell and a real AOE are right there.
Nah.
Nothing would be broken and the subclass would be better if Lore got a choice of a cantrip or two at 3rd level. They could also add something like Mind Sliver to the list of available cantrips, and that wouldn't be bad. Also in line with Bard playstyle, since it's a solid debuff with decent damage that targets a weak save.
I can agree with mind sliver being added. It seems to fit in the bard's spells and I was a bit surprised it wasn't.
So, we can all agree that adding one or more damage cantrips to one of the Bard colleges would be a straight up buff, right?
And do we think Bards need a buff? Especially the college that's """supposed""" to have such an option?
Because it seems to me like Bard is doing just fine, sitting as one of the best classes in the game and performing (ha!) its suite of roles admirably. I mean, I guess you could cut something in order to make room for this damage option, but what would you cut? A damage cantrip isn't going to fit the class better than any of the stuff it already has.
Yes, having now played a bard for many months, I think they need this. We can call it a "buff", but that's using MMO lingo and I don't think that's really all that useful for TTRPG gaming (as much as it happens, I think it's sort of silly. Buff and Nerf typically are terms reserved for games which include an element of competitiveness against other players, and that's not D&D).
I think of it as a quality of life enhancement for the class. It may just be through my own play lens, but my experience has been that my round-to-round viability has sufffered *greatly* in Tier 2 play, and that other casting classes would be able to conserve spell slots and do their jobs better than I can as a Bard because they have access to at least one solid combat cantrip.
I play in two campaigns right now - Rime of the Frostmaiden as my Lore Bard, and Candlkeep Mysteries as my Abjuration Wizard. By far and away, my Wizard feels like he does his job every single turn, and with some effectiveness. Weather he's controlling or blasting, or just casting a decent cantrip. My Bard, however, has to spend spell slots nearly every turn to do something useful at his level. His weapons do precious little damage and are honestly a waste of an action, and Vicious Mockery is very lackluster as an action. Bonus action economy for Lore bards is pretty terrible (Sure, I can give out inspiration, but I typically have to save those for clutch Cutting Words as a reaction). I have a variety of useful spells, to be sure, and I think I've done a good job of rounding out my spell selection, and I'm a smart player who makes good choices, but I can't escape the feeling that I am a drag on the group in many rounds if I'm not spending a spell slot. That's not true with a lot of casters. YMMV, but I don't think my experiences are invalid or derive from bad play on my part. Bards need one offensive cantrip that's more impactful than VM. It's really that simple.
There's other, out of the box ways you could fix it. Let Bards of certain subclasses add Charisma to Vicious Mockery. You could add Mind Sliver to the cantrip list, as suggested above. You could allow Lore bards Magical secrets at 3rd for cantrips only.
Hate to be the guy who double taps, but I think I centered in on the underlying cause of what I'm experiencing as a Bard player, and why I'm leaning towards dipping into something like Sorc of Hexblade to fix it.
So, my job in combat as a Lore bard in my party is largely one of battlefield control. I've picked this because it does all the jobs I'm called upon to do as the only spellcaster in my party (we had a Cleric but they couldn't stick with the game). I have to heal, control, and support, in addition to some blasting. Typically this means I patch everyone up after the fight or stand them up during the fight with low-level cure spells, but my primary job is to drop a strong control spell out of the gates and then hold concentration on it. This is usually something like Hypnotic Pattern, Slow, Hold Person, etc.
Once I've dropped that big concentration effect, I'm not actively doing anything of any impact on successive turns. And that's the difference between my Bard and my Wizard. He does the same battlefield control (he does it better, honestly) - drop a big impactful concentration spell, and then blast away turn by turn. And that's what the Lore Bard perhaps is missing, and why so many people I think consider dipping out of Bard for some round-to-round impact. I don't have a nice Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, or Ray of Frost (or Toll the Dead, or whatever) to throw out. I have Vicious Mockery, and it's a mockery of itself.
So I think that's it. Just because you're doing something (say, holding slow on someone and maybe using your reaction to try and turn narrow hits into misses with cutting words) with concentration doesn't mean you feel like you're doing anything once that spell is in place. You mostly feel like your control over weather or not it holds is at that point entirely beyond you, and you still feel a drive to contribute once your concentration is set. Were I playing a Swords bard, I'd be swinging twice a round. If I were a Whispers bard, I could do some spike damage with Psychic Blades. But with Lore, I have to dig into my spell slots to contribute meaningful damage or healing once my concentration slot is occupied. And if you're facing something you can't control (say, Undead when you have Hypnotic pattern, etc), then you can't do the control thing *and* you don't have a workhorse action to go to.
So I'm just hearing that Vicious Mockery isn't good, basically. I can't agree. I think it's great.
Also, depending on how a DM interprets the relative word salad that is the Spiritual Focus feature for College of Spirits, that's the college that adds bonus damage to Mockery. It already exists! Sort of. Again, word salad. It's how my DM ruled it, anyway.
You don't need to dip into another class to "fix" College of Lore.
I think you're approaching this from a misconception that you have to do just as much with your action as everyone else, but that's not really true when you have access to so much you can do with a bonus action or reaction. But even then, it's not like Lore has no options.
If you still desperately want more cantrips, you can take a feat at 4th level, or use one or both of your Additional Magical Secrets at 6th level to take any cantrip you like with no multiclassing required. I also think you're being overly harsh on Vicious Mockery; the point of it isn't so much the damage, it's the fact that the damage isn't commonly resisted, and its save type is commonly poor, which makes it a fairly reliable way to interfere with enemy attacks (good for limiting the enemies that escape your control spells, especially if they're of the fewer, stronger attacks variety).
While I do agree that it's strange that Bards didn't get access to Mind Sliver, College of Lore is the one Bard sub-class that can take it anyway at 6th level. This is part of what makes the additional magical secrets the very thing you say you want, because before 5th level cantrips on just compete with single weapon attacks, and likewise compete with Extra Attack from 5th onwards, but for martial Bards we don't get Extra Attack until 6th,; Additional Magical Secrets is the Lore equivalent, as it lets you take one or two attack cantrips that compete with a Swords or Valor's twin attacks, but with the option for more variety of damage types, saves targeted and rider effects. Of course you can alternatively take spells of 1st level or higher (or take one of each), it depends upon what exactly you want to build.
I've been playing a College of Lore Bard for nearly 18 months; I grabbed myself Green Flame Blade at 6th level and use that with a rapier when I want to dart in and make a nuisance of myself, but that's the high risk, middling reward option (fits the character though), you can pick a ranged option just as easily. It's also important to remember that College of Lore excels out of combat thanks to a high number of skill proficiencies, you shouldn't expect them to be just as good as the more combat focused Bard sub-classes that don't get that, but even so, Lore competes just fine.
I definitely don't recommend multiclassing just to get cantrips; multiclassing on a full caster delays your spell progression, and that's not something you want to do without really good reason.
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I think this is the correct call; people have been interpreting Spiritual Focus to mean it can only be used with spells that have material components, but nothing in the rules says that you can't use a focus to cast spells that don't have any, the focus just doesn't (normally) do anything extra when you do. It's very, very unlikely that Wizards of the Coast intended for Spiritual Focus to be usable with only like two spells.
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It's a little more likely when you consider the spells they can get with Spirit Session and Magical Secrets, but even with that, I'd only bump it up from "very, very unlikely" to "unlikely."
Still, every time you do the math on a dip, it works out to be a very powerful choice for the Bard (because bards suck at low cost sustainable damage).
Level 1 - Variant Human bard of Lore (or Whispers, or Swords) with Eldritch Adept - Devil's Sight.
Do Bard1-6 (maybe 5 with Whispers).
Hexblade 1 - Swap Devil's Sight for Agonizing Blast.
Now you have a single level drop Hexblade with full EB damage and you lose only one level in spell progression. Med armor, shields... That level stings at times (no Secrets till 11th, 5th level spells wait for 10th, etc). Still, it's a one level investment for 2-4 blasts at 1d10+1d6 (because you took Hex) + CHA + Prof Bonus (because you cast Hexblade's curse), and you get Shield and hex at 1st level every rest (or whatever you want to cast at 1st off your spell list). Is the delay ever going to hurt more than just blasting bad guys in the face after you Hypnotize, Hold, Fear, or Slow them? If you want to devote your Bardic dice to killing stuff you can go whispers and make like a psychic rogue. Or you can go swords and play with cantrips and flourishes and the like. In any case, you're basically a full bard but with the amazing benefits of Hexblade's overloaded level 1.
I kind of feel like I wouldn't be longing for that one if my Lore bard didn't have to trade counterspell or fireball off for flame bolt. :P
Honestly, Bards should have access to Booming Blade and Mind Sliver as baseline cantrips as I think about it.
I love this build! Sure, it uses a feat to avoid having to take a 2nd level in warlock, but it better preserves character progression. In a realistic 1-11 campaign, you'll still access 10th lvl magical secrets.
Honestly, sure, hexblade is perhaps the best option because of the armor, shields, shield spell, and hex warrior, but you could easily make the case for any warlock subclass simply because the most important thing is the access to EB+AB, as you're better off firing from a distance anyways. This means you have better flexibility when choosing a subclass for flavor and rp potential rather than going for the low-hanging fruit. Although, if your plan includes warcaster, hexblade's too good to pass up lol, but only if you're a swords bard to include the weapon as a focus bit, or if you come across a ruby of the war mage and don't mind using an attunement slot for it. Otherwise, if you're gunning for 20 CHA asap, any warlock subclass is honestly just as good for all intents and purposes.
The only downside is you'll lose access to 6th level spells in a typical campaign, but honestly, c'mon, one spell a day at the last level vs the ability to carry some real fire power for most of the campaign is easily WORTH it. Maybe it's me, but I don't really feel most of those 6th level spells to be all that impressive anyways aside from mass suggestion, but even that's got the pitfall of not working on charm immune enemies, which by 11th level could easily be common.
Now, the only thing I'd add is you might wanna consider taking that dip after bard 4, so upon entry to tier 2 you have a good damage tool! Although, if you want access to 3rd level spells right away, which is understandable, right after 5 is a good choice too. I personally feel delaying after 6th is too long.
A Hexblade dip is a strong option for a lot of builds but you're relying on a lot of stuff that a DM may not allow (variant human and multiclassing) to "fix" a problem that you don't really have. While Eldritch Blast does good damage, that's all it does*, and as I've pointed out for College of Lore you don't need to take a feat or multiclass to get it; just take it at 6th level as an Additional Magic Secret, no progression lost.
*(Okay it can do more but you need to invest in the Eldritch Invocations to do it, and I've never liked any of them personally, I prefer other options)
There are a bunch of multiclassing combos that can be similarly "strong" for other classes as well, but these are "power gamer" builds for people who care overly much about damage and nothing else; the question you should be asking is what role do you want to play (it's a roleplaying game after all), because if you think purely in mechanical terms then what are you even playing at the end of it? Your proposed build is forcing you to be a human who's sold their soul to a probably less than savoury being; you're limiting your character when you start thinking purely in mechanical terms.
I'd also point out that Vicious Mockery still has the advantage over Eldritch Blast that while it does less damage, it can also prevent damage by forcing an enemy to miss (which combos well with Cutting Words on another attack, potentially preventing more damage than you will gain from Eldritch Blast). This makes it a much better fit for most Bards as it's supplementing your ability to control enemies in a way that Eldritch Blast does not. And this is what actually makes Bards strong; because through inspiration and control you can actually cause more damage than any other party member, because every attack that hits because of you when it would have missed otherwise is damage you caused, just as every enemy hit that misses because of you is damage that you saved.
Again, the lack of Mind Sliver is a bit of a head scratcher, as it's similar in that you could combo it to help force a failure on a saving throw, no idea why that's not available in the expanded Bard spell list. Not sure I agree about Booming Blade, it's a spell to force an enemy to keep fighting you which seems overly tanky for Bards. You can still take both of these as Additional Magical Secrets on College of Lore though, and 6th level is about where you want to do it anyway (as that's when the dice count increases and BB starts adding damage to the initial attack), this is why there's no need to "fix" College of Lore.
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You can gain those cantrips with a dip, but you can't gain their 3rd level spells as easily.
Is it a good or bad thing for something to be to considered "power gamey"? Does that even mean anything other than a thinly veiled "we don't take too kindly to your kind 'round these parts"? To say players with an interest in mechanics and fully utilizing them to their advantage care little to nothing for anything else is nothing short of hyperbolic at best, and ignorant at worst.
Thanks to the Custom Lineage option in TCOE, you can be any race you want and still access a feat. Thanks to the versatility in warlock patrons and player creativity, how you come upon those powers is entirely up to you. Wanna be a half-human, half-tabaxi, pseudo-anime-catgirl who was given powers by a cute animal that can talk, to mirror the typical magical girl origin story? That's an option that allows a feat, and doesn't have anything to do with the common faustian explanation of a warlock gaining their powers or being a variant human. If you want to rebuttal this argument with "well, not every DM allows them," well, not every player has to settle for every DM. Players can also walk away! You'll likely run into a DM that allows them more often than not.
Now, I won't argue vicious mockery has its time and place, and in the case of a straight bard, that time and place is most of the time and in most places. But to say it has an advantage over eldritch blast is largely a matter of opinion, for I could just as easily assert that eldritch blast has the advantage of dealing damage that actually matters. But that's not actually true, for both are designed to do different things. They fulfill different purposes, so you can't compare them as one having the advantage over the other.
Besides, this argument made is addressing a comment for bards in general. Not every bard will have the option to take a cantrip of their choice at 6th level. What if I'm a glamour bard, or an eloquence bard? Even then, so what if I can take a cantrip at 6th level? I could use both secrets to get booming blade and eldritch blast, or I could just dip a level into warlock and have both, along with the spells and features offered, and still have my pick for any 3rd level spell or below as I please.
Sure, there's nothing to """""fix""""". But, so long as what they're doing is within the rules, what a player chooses to do with their pc is up to them. That's their prerogative. If I want to take a miata sport scar, make it front wheel drive, and swap out its tiny engine with a big boy LS engine, that's my expression of what I like in a car. Sure, the original didn't need any of that, and almost everyone would argue that I just stripped away what made it a miata in the first place, but if that's what makes me happy and what I wanted to do, then who are you to say it's incorrect?
My point isn't that you can't ever multiclass, but if you're doing it for purely mechanical reasons then the obvious question is why?
A Bard's primary strength is in maximising the party; every attack of theirs that hits because of you is damage you caused, likewise every enemy attack that misses is damage that you saved. It's too easy to compare the damage your attacks do to the damage someone else's do and think "oh no I'm a weak little baby" but if they are only hitting because of something you did then their damage is your damage.
Now if that's not the type of Bard you want to build that's fine, there are options, but the more you lean on dealing damage the less Bard you're going to be; and the earlier criticism was that Lore should be the blaster Bard, but it already basically is (access to any two cantrips or spells you like at 6th). If that's not enough then what the person wants to play isn't really a Bard, it's something else; again that's fine, but it should really be done for character reasons not just because of an obsession with damage numbers (which is frankly a toxic condition that you see a lot, especially online). After all, it's a roleplaying game; build what fits the role, don't mash a role onto power builds, that's playing the game the wrong way round.
The OP just wanted some tips on playing their Bard in combat; radically changing what they're playing through multiclassing (especially one that would also rely on them changing their race) with the intention of "fixing" something that isn't broken doesn't really fit into tip territory IMO.
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My take on Vicious Mockery is that it hasn't been a useful action for my bard to take since about level 4 or so. Disadvantage on a single attack is kind of meaningless when I can take my action to do more than that, and *kind of have to* do more than give disadvantage to a single attack of theirs. If they fail their save. It doesn't hit hard enough to be worthwhile as a whole turn's action, and the debuff doesn't do enough when monsters typically attack 2-3 times in a round. It's just... bad. It's fun! But it's not good.
I don't think there is anything radical about adding a better cantrip to the Bard list, and I think if there was something there (or if VM was better), you wouldn't see as many people consider a dip in the first place.
I would point out that at low levels there's no difference in damage. Your hexblade who does d8+3 isn't doing more than the bard using a weapon doing d8+3 ;-)
Make the same variant human, use the feat for moderately armored for the same AC and you have sleep available immediately and no level delays. You can pick up eldritch blast through secrets too and agonizing blast via any ASI/feat level you like.
Hexblade is a better dip than fighter but still has those delayed levels that hurt.
My other thoughts....
If you don't mind a build that takes a long time to come online you can go valor bard for the armor and then use magical secrets at some point for shield and eldritch blast. Still use a feat to pick up agonizing blast. Strong defensively and at 14th level your pure bard casts agonizing EB's and then also gets to add a bonus action weapon attack every time for better at-will damage than your splashed option, and you can still add hex by then if you do want it.
It's a long time to wait though. That's why I'm more likely to make a valor bard who takes advantage of his extra attack feature using weapons, or just pick up a damage cantrip on non-weapon focused bards, or just ignore the damage because I'm spending my action economy on healing, control, and status effects.
I argued it, but that's because it's about the weakest damage in the game and the benefit (disadvantage) is available from many other resources. Minor illusion or mage hand are more useful when cantrips known are limited.
It's definitely not the best most of the time and in most places on a bard. That's just an option and an opinion I do not share. I wouldn't stop someone from using vicious mockery if he/she/they is having fun but I don't think it's worth the action cost because more damage dropping an opponent prevents less damage in the long run. ;-)
The issue I have with multi-classing is waiting for the good stuff. Hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc prevent a lot more damage faster than doing more damage or spamming vicious mockery.
You familiar with that one scene from The Fairly OddParents, where Timmy asks his parents when are they getting on the ride in Escalator Land? He's then told "this IS the ride." Multi-classing IS the good stuff.
Now, minor illusion or mage hand are indeed really good cantrips that I believe are better than vicious mockery... outside of combat. If you want to argue about how those cantrips are better IN combat, well, you're entering the realm of DM fiat and we can't make concluding generalizations on such grounds. Now, if you want to go on about these sources of disadvantage, I can guarantee you they either aren't coming from a cheap resource, or would place the bard in excessive risk. Grappling and shoving is a cheap way to impose disadvantage, but you do so at your own peril. Off the top of my head, I'm unable to name some concentration spells for imposing disadvantage, but I'd chalk that up to my own fault. If there were, it would not change the decision to use and maintain concentration on a different spell, for whatever reason it may be. Outside of grappling and shoving, I'm having a hard time of listing a reliably cheap method of imposing disadvantage.
VM then provides a way to impose disadvantage both cheaply and safely, without using concentration. If you want to decide that the few, minuscule points of damage shooting a crossbow is worth trading away disadvantage on an attack, be my guest. You still ain't doing much either way, so you might as well impose disadvantage. If you want to run in melee as a lore bard with two-weapon fighting in some attempt to deal damage that maybe barely inches its way out of single-digits DPR territory, sir, I tip my hat to you in a brave salute.
Now, you're right about hypnotic pattern, slow, fear etc all doing a better job than a single cantrip does at preventing damage... but you know what's even better at preventing damage? Using VM while you're concentrating on hypnotic pattern, slow, fear, etc. Fact.
Vicious mockery vs weapon damage isn't a miniscule difference just because you say it is. It's more than twice the damage easily. Check your math. ;-)
Your DC is 13 at that low tier. With no bonus to saves at all 65% chance for an average of 2.5 damage and averages 1.6 damage per round. The damage is absolute trash. Disadvantage is the only reason to use it at all, which doesn't stack with other sources of disadvantage that are available.
That goes down with save bonuses.
The common 13 AC with a crossbow hits 65% of the time as well. 5% of that chance is a crit. That averages 5.1 damage per round or a bit more than 3x the damage. This also goes down as AC goes up but requires comparing a high AC target and a low save target to become a small difference.
Before anyone claims that the weapon damage is weak it's not. It's the same damage options most classes are using for weapons outside of a small bonus possible in fighting styles.
It's extra attack and bonuses that make the diffey later, when more spell slots become available and the hard is less likely to be spamming cantrips or weapon attacks.
Claiming weapon attacks in that 1st tier aren't worthwhile is basically the equivalent of saying most weapon attacks aren't worthwhile when clearly damage does need done.
The difference is also dropping those low CR monsters.
The average 7.5 damage hit one-shots goblins and kobolds. The 15 AC on a goblin means typically 55% one-shot in the first attack and high chance in the second attack.
That same goblin actually has a penalty to the save so the bard has 70% chance to do 2.5 damage and inflict disadvantage on attacks. This takes 4 rounds on average to drop the target with disadvantage on 2 of those rounds and no effect on the other round.
The crossbow method drops the target in 1-2 rounds denying all attacks for 3-4 of the same rounds. The crossbow method would drop a second target while the vicious mockery method is still working on the first. No attacks is better than attacking with disadvantage.
The crossbow prevents more damage than vicious mockery against those low hit point targets. That breaks the "lore bard should use vicious mockery most of the time" argument. The better approach depends on the target, making vicious mockery situational.
For vicious mockery to become more useful the increased DC at higher levels helps and the damage becomes better against lower hit point targets. Taking it at 10th level is when it's becoming more useful because of damage and DC by then but it's also when the need to spend actions on cantrips or attacks has greatly diminished.
Even at 4th level preparing for 5th level the chance to on-shot trash mobs is better than a chance to inflict 5 damage and disadvantage on a single attack.
For vicious mockery to do much there needs to be a target that cannot be quickly dispatched through damage or other means and that action cannot have a better choice at the time. It does become better at dealing with trash mobs with that 3rd die but still situational.
Damage is always applicable to combat and the crossbow comes with with no opportunity cost that the limited selection of cantrips does.
I never got into the benefits of mage hand or minor illusion in combat because we were comparing vicious mockery to weapon damage as the action in combat. I explicitly called them out as out-of-combat benefits at some point.
Since you brought it up, however, mage hand can be used to hold the torch or lantern a character would need for a light source to enable two handed weapons or fighting with two weapons for the damage benefit or a shield and weapon for the defensive benefit in addition to other uses. No DM fiat on light rules.
My minor illusion can be used to replicate cover as an illusion. Until the opponents figure out the illusion they will aim for the portion showing or possibly move. There are cover, line of sight, and hiding in combat rules that can be applied by using minor illusion.
Vicious mockery has no out-of -combat application.
And as I also said, there are other ways to inflict disadvantage. A lot of them because it's a common mechanic.
You guys can have fun with it, but it doesn't seem to be worth selecting over other cantrips.