What’s the most martial effective Bard of Lore that can be built taking Magical Secretss from the Ranger and Paladin spell lists and spending feats as apppropriate?
College of Lore Bard built for martial combat ... well it is going to have to include feats. Are you going to go strictly melee combat or would consider a ranged combatant.
My first bit of advice is to get Elven Chain, which a Lore Bard is allowed to wear as if he were proficient in medium armors. That helps considerably in one area.
Second, if you really are going to be a combatant, you will want high Constitution. Fortunately there is a feat that will repay you double for investing in Constitution, Resilient. If you build your character with say a 15 in constitution and later pick up Resilient as a feat, you will get the +1 in constitution and have the benefit of advantage on saving throws when you need to make a constitution check, say like when you are concentrating on a spell. So you will get a big bump in HP and a big advantage in this area Bards are often not highly regarded. But this will come at a cost of trading ASI in one area for more constitution. All fighters want a high constitution.
If you use the XGtE racial bonuses, a half-elf bard, one of the best kinds, you could pick up Elven Accuracy. Your DM might allow you to add longbow as a proficient weapon so you wouldn't have to just go Crossbow.
A quick glance at the spells for Paladins and Rangers up to third level turn up three candidates, and you could pick two of these at level 6 as a Lore Bard; Elemental Weapon (3rd paladin), Cordon of Arrows (2nd ranger) and lightning arrow (3rd ranger). I'm not up on the details of these spells but if building a ranged combatant is up for consideration, these all sound pretty good to me.
Now as a Bard you do need to drive your Charisma score up, so you can't trade charisma to increase constitution without paying a big price. Second, you do really want at least 14 in dexterity to gain +2 in your armor class for medium armors. That leaves few Ability score points to shuffle around to build the character. I personally dislike the very idea that the "face of the party" could have low wisdom or intelligence scores, so I am against either of these scores starting below 12, but that is just the way I approach playing and building a bard. Now given some of the antics I hear about so many bards, maybe there are plenty of bards with very low wisdom scores.
Choose a background that gives you something you can use in combat. Don't choose Performer. It only adds to something you have solidly covered. If you choose a half-elf, you also get two extra skills for proficiency. This may not help you in combat, but will most certainly help you while adventuring if you don't throw them away.
The other feats I might give a look to would be Crossbow Expert, Dual Wielder, Ritual Caster, Sharpshooter, War Caster or Spell Sniper. Of course some of these feats would not be used with others, so it depends on what direction you want to go with your combat style; melee or ranged.
Regarding Ritual Caster, this Feat allows you to build a ritual spell book. All your ritual spells may be copied into the book which free up known spells for other things. That is why I am considering it for my Bard, to allow me to use the known spells on others not ritual spells.
Be warned, trying to make a Lore Bard into a melee fighter in particular is pounding a square peg into a round hole.
Also, I would still, in your case, consider using one of those 6th level Magical Secrets abilities (for 3rd level spells) to pick up fireball. There's a lot of damage in fireball, which is only mitigated by the fact that so many monster types have resistance or immunity to fire damage. Good luck.
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Just from the paladin and ranger lists, eh? Without a feat or multiclass, you're likely limited to light armor. And without good ranged weapon options or Extra Attack, you won't be able to keep up without lots of spell expenditures. A mountain dwarf or githyanki brings medium armor proficiency and picks up a few martial melee weapons. An elf can have longbow proficiency, which is probably what you want for ranged combat as it won't require a feat.
6th-level If you don't have magical weapons, elemental weapon can give you some extra damage. It's good, sustained DPR, and it can be used at range. You wouldn't be stuck close melee like you would be with crusader's mantle. But, if you do wish to get up close, blinding smite could be fun. And conjure barrage could be fun.
Just from the paladin and ranger lists, eh? Without a feat or multiclass, you're likely limited to light armor. And without good ranged weapon options or Extra Attack, you won't be able to keep up without lots of spell expenditures. A mountain dwarf or githyanki brings medium armor proficiency and picks up a few martial melee weapons. An elf can have longbow proficiency, which is probably what you want for ranged combat as it won't require a feat.
6th-level If you don't have magical weapons, elemental weapon can give you some extra damage. It's good, sustained DPR, and it can be used at range. You wouldn't be stuck close melee like you would be with crusader's mantle. But, if you do wish to get up close, blinding smite could be fun. And conjure barrage could be fun.
Just from the paladin and ranger lists, eh? Without a feat or multiclass, you're likely limited to light armor. And without good ranged weapon options or Extra Attack, you won't be able to keep up without lots of spell expenditures. A mountain dwarf or githyanki brings medium armor proficiency and picks up a few martial melee weapons. An elf can have longbow proficiency, which is probably what you want for ranged combat as it won't require a feat.
6th-level If you don't have magical weapons, elemental weapon can give you some extra damage. It's good, sustained DPR, and it can be used at range. You wouldn't be stuck close melee like you would be with crusader's mantle. But, if you do wish to get up close, blinding smite could be fun. And conjure barrage could be fun.
You misunderstood. Use feats and other spells as necessary.
Martial and Lore don't go well together. Chiefly because you don't get Extra Attack, so your DPR will always be behind those that have it. There's no feat to get around that. Feat selection is borderline meaningless because that hinges on how you want to play. If you want to go melee, then Moderately Armored is a good bet. It has +1 Dex and grants proficiency in better armor and shields. If you want to go ranged, then Crossbow Expert is your best bet. If you have feats ASIs to spare, then Weapon Master can grant +1 Dex and 4 additional weapon proficiencies. And you've got 5 good choices: scimitar, whip, heavy crossbow, longbow, and net. Your 10th-level Magical Secrets can be used to pick up swift quiver, which nets you two ranged attacks per bonus action. It requires Concentration, but it doesn't require your action to be spent on Attack; which means you can use that to cast other spells that don't require Concentration. Most people don't like that feat, but I love it.
Now, you explicitly limited us to suggesting only paladin and ranger spells. If you want to compete with martial classes, then find a way to acquire booming blade or green-flame blade. They scale up as you level and can be used in conjunction with your weapon attacks. But those are found on the sorcerer, warlock, and wizard spell lists so they're off limits. :P
In My next game *(Curse of Strad only 2 players though) I am thinking of going Hex (1 or 2)/ lore bard. Since he is a Elf he will already get Green flame and will grab booming from Hex. Between this to cover the lose of extra attack and Cutting words to help limit the hits to himself of partner (he is thinking of going paladin.
As a back round he was magically saved as a child when his whole village was destoryed by the Magics of the Moonblade of his Village (His Hex patron). The thing his he is bard at hart that is being forced into the role of a fighter. It will be up to the DM if Strad is the one as I do not know the box as I will not read it and mess up the pay throw.
I m going to agree with Jounichi1983 that Lore is not great for martial. A few reasons from not an expert but a lvl 11 Lore Bard. You want your spell DC high but if you are taking feats then that is not possible since you miss your ASI's. I have found my strength is utility and control. Many of my control spells have a save and even with a 20 Cha, against tough foes they save more than not.
You could raise Dex or Con but then you are much worse being the party face and less feats that you really need. Again at the cost of spell DC.
The new rules allow any race to take a feat at 1st lvl I think. So if you do, then as mentioned before I would recommend Dex with ranged. Then Con doesn't matter as much. Elvish Accuracy and Crossbow Expert look good. I think Crossbow Expert lets you ignore close range penalties and that applies to ranged spell attacks also. As suggested before, get Fireball or ranged attack spells (they will use Cha casting DC I think) and defensive spells such as auras. That might work. Better advice on that from others.
I now a little off of the OP. As a lore bard, I was always doing little to no damage. I think I swung a weapon once in probably the last 4 levels but when those spells hit....sweet. Sometimes I felt I wasn't contributing much but was told how much I was missed when I couldn't make a game. Bard is hands down my favorite char to play. Really want to try the Eloquence subclass some day.
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What’s the most martial effective Bard of Lore that can be built taking Magical Secretss from the Ranger and Paladin spell lists and spending feats as apppropriate?
Tenser's Transformation.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
College of Lore Bard built for martial combat ... well it is going to have to include feats. Are you going to go strictly melee combat or would consider a ranged combatant.
My first bit of advice is to get Elven Chain, which a Lore Bard is allowed to wear as if he were proficient in medium armors. That helps considerably in one area.
Second, if you really are going to be a combatant, you will want high Constitution. Fortunately there is a feat that will repay you double for investing in Constitution, Resilient. If you build your character with say a 15 in constitution and later pick up Resilient as a feat, you will get the +1 in constitution and have the benefit of advantage on saving throws when you need to make a constitution check, say like when you are concentrating on a spell. So you will get a big bump in HP and a big advantage in this area Bards are often not highly regarded. But this will come at a cost of trading ASI in one area for more constitution. All fighters want a high constitution.
If you use the XGtE racial bonuses, a half-elf bard, one of the best kinds, you could pick up Elven Accuracy. Your DM might allow you to add longbow as a proficient weapon so you wouldn't have to just go Crossbow.
A quick glance at the spells for Paladins and Rangers up to third level turn up three candidates, and you could pick two of these at level 6 as a Lore Bard; Elemental Weapon (3rd paladin), Cordon of Arrows (2nd ranger) and lightning arrow (3rd ranger). I'm not up on the details of these spells but if building a ranged combatant is up for consideration, these all sound pretty good to me.
Now as a Bard you do need to drive your Charisma score up, so you can't trade charisma to increase constitution without paying a big price. Second, you do really want at least 14 in dexterity to gain +2 in your armor class for medium armors. That leaves few Ability score points to shuffle around to build the character. I personally dislike the very idea that the "face of the party" could have low wisdom or intelligence scores, so I am against either of these scores starting below 12, but that is just the way I approach playing and building a bard. Now given some of the antics I hear about so many bards, maybe there are plenty of bards with very low wisdom scores.
Choose a background that gives you something you can use in combat. Don't choose Performer. It only adds to something you have solidly covered. If you choose a half-elf, you also get two extra skills for proficiency. This may not help you in combat, but will most certainly help you while adventuring if you don't throw them away.
The other feats I might give a look to would be Crossbow Expert, Dual Wielder, Ritual Caster, Sharpshooter, War Caster or Spell Sniper. Of course some of these feats would not be used with others, so it depends on what direction you want to go with your combat style; melee or ranged.
Regarding Ritual Caster, this Feat allows you to build a ritual spell book. All your ritual spells may be copied into the book which free up known spells for other things. That is why I am considering it for my Bard, to allow me to use the known spells on others not ritual spells.
Be warned, trying to make a Lore Bard into a melee fighter in particular is pounding a square peg into a round hole.
Also, I would still, in your case, consider using one of those 6th level Magical Secrets abilities (for 3rd level spells) to pick up fireball. There's a lot of damage in fireball, which is only mitigated by the fact that so many monster types have resistance or immunity to fire damage. Good luck.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Just from the paladin and ranger lists, eh? Without a feat or multiclass, you're likely limited to light armor. And without good ranged weapon options or Extra Attack, you won't be able to keep up without lots of spell expenditures. A mountain dwarf or githyanki brings medium armor proficiency and picks up a few martial melee weapons. An elf can have longbow proficiency, which is probably what you want for ranged combat as it won't require a feat.
6th-level
If you don't have magical weapons, elemental weapon can give you some extra damage. It's good, sustained DPR, and it can be used at range. You wouldn't be stuck close melee like you would be with crusader's mantle. But, if you do wish to get up close, blinding smite could be fun. And conjure barrage could be fun.
10th-level
The best spell you can take for ranged combat is probably swift quiver. And banishing smite is a solid melee choice. There's also the likes of conjure volley, holy weapon, and steel wind strike just to name a few.
You misunderstood. Use feats and other spells as necessary.
Martial and Lore don't go well together. Chiefly because you don't get Extra Attack, so your DPR will always be behind those that have it. There's no feat to get around that. Feat selection is borderline meaningless because that hinges on how you want to play. If you want to go melee, then Moderately Armored is a good bet. It has +1 Dex and grants proficiency in better armor and shields. If you want to go ranged, then Crossbow Expert is your best bet. If you have feats ASIs to spare, then Weapon Master can grant +1 Dex and 4 additional weapon proficiencies. And you've got 5 good choices: scimitar, whip, heavy crossbow, longbow, and net. Your 10th-level Magical Secrets can be used to pick up swift quiver, which nets you two ranged attacks per bonus action. It requires Concentration, but it doesn't require your action to be spent on Attack; which means you can use that to cast other spells that don't require Concentration. Most people don't like that feat, but I love it.
Now, you explicitly limited us to suggesting only paladin and ranger spells. If you want to compete with martial classes, then find a way to acquire booming blade or green-flame blade. They scale up as you level and can be used in conjunction with your weapon attacks. But those are found on the sorcerer, warlock, and wizard spell lists so they're off limits. :P
In My next game *(Curse of Strad only 2 players though) I am thinking of going Hex (1 or 2)/ lore bard. Since he is a Elf he will already get Green flame and will grab booming from Hex. Between this to cover the lose of extra attack and Cutting words to help limit the hits to himself of partner (he is thinking of going paladin.
As a back round he was magically saved as a child when his whole village was destoryed by the Magics of the Moonblade of his Village (His Hex patron). The thing his he is bard at hart that is being forced into the role of a fighter. It will be up to the DM if Strad is the one as I do not know the box as I will not read it and mess up the pay throw.
I spell Goodly.
I m going to agree with Jounichi1983 that Lore is not great for martial. A few reasons from not an expert but a lvl 11 Lore Bard. You want your spell DC high but if you are taking feats then that is not possible since you miss your ASI's. I have found my strength is utility and control. Many of my control spells have a save and even with a 20 Cha, against tough foes they save more than not.
You could raise Dex or Con but then you are much worse being the party face and less feats that you really need. Again at the cost of spell DC.
The new rules allow any race to take a feat at 1st lvl I think. So if you do, then as mentioned before I would recommend Dex with ranged. Then Con doesn't matter as much. Elvish Accuracy and Crossbow Expert look good. I think Crossbow Expert lets you ignore close range penalties and that applies to ranged spell attacks also. As suggested before, get Fireball or ranged attack spells (they will use Cha casting DC I think) and defensive spells such as auras. That might work. Better advice on that from others.
I now a little off of the OP. As a lore bard, I was always doing little to no damage. I think I swung a weapon once in probably the last 4 levels but when those spells hit....sweet. Sometimes I felt I wasn't contributing much but was told how much I was missed when I couldn't make a game. Bard is hands down my favorite char to play. Really want to try the Eloquence subclass some day.