I've seen some suggestion that the 2024 Cleric's Divine Intervention allows you to cast any spell in a single action, bypassing the usual cast times if spells like Planar Binding or Prayer of Healing.
To me, this sounds more like a misunderstanding of how the Magic (Action) works, but I'd love an official word on this.
Paraphrased, Divine Intervention states "Take the Magic action and select a cleric spell. As part of the same action, you Cast that spell. You do not spend a spell slot or any costly components."
Divine Intervention clearly says you don't spend any resources on the cast, but it doesn't clearly say the spell completes in one action. It just says "You cast the spell as part of the Action."
The rules for spellcasting state that 'You take the Magic action and cast a spell. If the spell has a casting time of 1 minute or more, you must spend each turn during that time using the Magic action and maintaining concentration."
We can compare it to Wish. Both say that you bypass the need for expensive components. Wish copies a spell effect, Divine Intervention gives you a free use of a spell. But Divine Intervention doesn't say the spell takes effect immediately, unlike the Wish spell. It just says "you cast the spell".
This means if you choose a spell that takes more than one action to cast, it doesn't change the cast time. Beginning a 1 minute cast of a spell is still casting the spell as part of the Divine Intervention Magic action.
I feel like there's a lot of discussion about this feature based on the assumption that it waives the cast time along with the materials and spell slot cost. Can we get an official clarification of this?
I mean, you can ask Jeremy Crawford if you want an official clarification. But the spell clearly says you cast the spell as an action. Casting a spell is...well, casting a spell. Not starting the action. If a Wild Magic sorcerer starts casting a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, would the Wild Magic Surge trigger as soon as they start casting the spell, or when the spell is actually cast?
I said this before in a different conversation, but performing an action means completing it. I'll use the same example: If you started reading a book, but only read the first half, would you say that you read the book?
This has been covered by Jeremy himself in an interview about the 2024 PHB changes. Divine Intervention is meant to be a get out of jail free card for clerics to cast any 5th level or lower spell without reagent and spell slot usage. Since the casting of the spell is tied to the ability usage and it has no timing restriction on the ability usage, the spell is effectively "cast" as your DI finishes.
It works this way as of the 2024 PHB Playtest and went unchanged through publication.
It's supposed to be a get out a jail free card i think. So, any cleric spell list 5 lvl and below is free to use without anything. Kinda like a mini wish spell. And it feels more consistent feeling with previous divine intervention on 2014 cleric class, which is a mini wish spell. They just add some "certainty" Part of it to make it actually meaningful. Like you can rely on it as an ability/feat instead of having chance to fail.
Also as the part of the same action means that the same part as you cast divine intervention, which is having a cast time of an action (i quote "use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated").
It's all terminology thingy
So yeah if you use divine intervention then, hallow, prayer of healing, raise dead, are all done in the same time when you activate divine intervention, which is done in an action (magic, you activate the divine intervention as a feature)
I've viewed the video and there's never any point where Jeremy states the casting time is bypassed. He says "You pick a spell in your back pocket, and cast it", and also that "what's great is, it doesn't use a spell slot, and doesn't cost any material components."
If it bypassed the cast time, I'd definitely be promoting that as a key feature.
The fact that Divine Intervention gets upgraded to a free cast of Wish in the end game makes me even more certain that the cast time isn't meant to be bypassed -- because the Wish spell is what explicitly duplicates and instantly casts a lower level spell, and the wording of Wish is distinct from Divine Intervention.
Divine Intervention states that you, very specifically, cast the spell. And the rules state that when you cast a spell with a long cast time, you spend your action for that full duration casting the spell.
I'm just unconvinced that the cast time is bypassed. There's nothing explicitly confirming it, and it's such an important and powerful boost I can't see why they wouldn't be boasting about it in the promos if that wasn't the intent.
This analogy doesn't work, because the feature explicitly says "You cast the spell." Divine Intervention isn't replicating Hallow, it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal.
You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell.
You're not using the effect of another spell. It's not a modified Wish, it's a modified method of the normal casting your cleric spells. Instead of selecting from your prepared spell list, you can select any spell from the cleric list. Normal spellcasting rules still apply.
In contrast, Wish states that Wish takes an action to cast, duplicates the effects of a spell, and the spell 'simply takes effect'. You never cast the spell you selected, so it all takes place in the one action. It's a very clear and distinct effect.
It's still an amazing feature - you can Raise Dead for free, sanctify areas with Hallow for free, and summon Celestial warriors to aid you in battle. You always have the right tool in your back pocket, but you still have to think ahead and be strategic. If you want to instant cast long spells.... you can! At Cleric 20, Divine Intervention is upgraded to allow Wish. That, to me, speaks of the Cleric bringing forth immediate miracles.
This analogy doesn't work, because the feature explicitly says "You cast the spell." Divine Intervention isn't replicating Hallow, it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal.
You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell.
You're not using the effect of another spell. It's not a modified Wish, it's a modified method of the normal casting your cleric spells. Instead of selecting from your prepared spell list, you can select any spell from the cleric list. Normal spellcasting rules still apply.
In contrast, Wish states that Wish takes an action to cast, duplicates the effects of a spell, and the spell 'simply takes effect'. You never cast the spell you selected, so it all takes place in the one action. It's a very clear and distinct effect.
It's still an amazing feature - you can Raise Dead for free, sanctify areas with Hallow for free, and summon Celestial warriors to aid you in battle. You always have the right tool in your back pocket, but you still have to think ahead and be strategic. If you want to instant cast long spells.... you can! At Cleric 20, Divine Intervention is upgraded to allow Wish. That, to me, speaks of the Cleric bringing forth immediate miracles.
It seems like a very convoluted way to word it, then, if that's what they meant. They could have said something like "Once per Long Rest, you can cast any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." Easy and simple.
Instead, they ended up saying something like "You take the Magic Action (completely pointless to say this because casting a spell always requires you to take the Magic Action). Then, you choose the spell you're going to cast, then you cast it, but that casting Magic Action is absorbed by the other Magic Action that you used when using this feature."
The feature Star Map of the Circle of the Stars says "...you can cast Guiding Bolt without expending a spell slot." Why doesn't it say "You can take the Magic Action and cast Guiding Bolt"? Because that's how you normally cast the spell, so there's no need to specify this. Guiding Bolt always takes a Magic Action to cast. But in the case of Divine Intervention, the spells available are numerous, and not all of them have the same casting time. But if the intention is to allow you to cast it as a Magic Action (not several Magic Actions, like with longer casting times), then they would specify "Take the Magic Action" because that's what's different from the normal casting of those spells.
So if you cast Prayer of Healing, do you sit in silence for 10 minutes and say "I cast Prayer of Healing" ? Or do you say you cast prayer of healing and assume the effect takes place after the cast time?
I've viewed the video and there's never any point where Jeremy states the casting time is bypassed. He says "You pick a spell in your back pocket, and cast it", and also that "what's great is, it doesn't use a spell slot, and doesn't cost any material components."
If it bypassed the cast time, I'd definitely be promoting that as a key feature.
The fact that Divine Intervention gets upgraded to a free cast of Wish in the end game makes me even more certain that the cast time isn't meant to be bypassed -- because the Wish spell is what explicitly duplicates and instantly casts a lower level spell, and the wording of Wish is distinct from Divine Intervention.
Divine Intervention states that you, very specifically, cast the spell. And the rules state that when you cast a spell with a long cast time, you spend your action for that full duration casting the spell.
I'm just unconvinced that the cast time is bypassed. There's nothing explicitly confirming it, and it's such an important and powerful boost I can't see why they wouldn't be boasting about it in the promos if that wasn't the intent.
"You pick a spell in your back pocket, and cast it".
This is more into reading comprehension and interpretation i think. I hate English, and this is one of the problem that's go with it.
The problem is in the word "cast"
Cz he's saying as if it's just actually happened just like that. Based on gesture, volume, context, and intonation at the video.
But if we refer to the rules of casting "SPELL"
Which is normal casting time not a feature.
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot."
Means that the second paragraph is applied here.
However in divine intervention...
We use the magic action on the first paragraph, last sentence.. Which is "use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated".
Divine intervention isn't a spell, it's a class FEATURE.
"You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest."
Notice on the sentence "As part of the same action"
Alright.. As part of the same action, means the same part of divine intervention "action" (which in this case a magic action, not as a magic action to cast a spell, but as a class feature)
This is like reading bible btw..
All of these shouldn't actually happens, since the one that made this book still alive today and even connected with internet.
We can just ask for clarifications... Though idk where...
So if you cast Prayer of Healing, do you sit in silence for 10 minutes and say "I cast Prayer of Healing" ? Or do you say you cast prayer of healing and assume the effect takes place after the cast time?
What's this? With or without divine intervention?
If without divine intervention then 10 minutes normally, concentrating each turns until you finish casting it. Or 600 turns in combat if 1 action is 6 seconds (idk my math is bad)
Which is really doesn't make sense to do it in the combat.
This is one spell that supposedly to do well with divine intervention if it's not having casting time.
Like once per long rest.. You can make your party's get their features back that reset on short rest, but in combat. Essentially having like second phase of the boss haha.
But outside the combat? Why bothers... Better taking short rest than waste spell slot 10 minutes to have short rest effect.
Are they really gonna make a useless spell like this for cleric?
Nah, it's supposed to be paired with divine intervention. So it can be used inside the combat without cast time and just happens at that turn. No need to wait 600 turns.
"it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal. you to cast Hallow as normal."
There's no saying of such things in the book. It's specifically said "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components"
Means as the same magic action duration of divine intervention which is one action.
The problem is the word "cast" Which i hate English..
It supposed to be "just let it happen" but no!
English lack word if it so they used "cast" Because it's a magic spell and they need to be "casted" For it to be happens.
Which then can be taken by exploit to assume that it uses normal spellcasting time, because some people unable to comprehend magic action does.
"You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell."
True, that's how divine intervention works. If only you understand the "cast"
"Normal spellcasting rules still apply."
No it doesn't.. Normal spellcasting rule doesn't apply, it follows how divine intervention do.
Remember it's a class feature, not casting a spell. "Casting" a spell is just part of it.
It seems like a very convoluted way to word it, then, if that's what they meant. They could have said something like "Once per Long Rest, you can cast any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." Easy and simple.
Instead, they ended up saying something like "You take the Magic Action (completely pointless to say this because casting a spell always requires you to take the Magic Action). Then, you choose the spell you're going to cast, then you cast it, but that casting Magic Action is absorbed by the other Magic Action that you used when using this feature."
The feature Star Map of the Circle of the Stars says "...you can cast Guiding Bolt without expending a spell slot." Why doesn't it say "You can take the Magic Action and cast Guiding Bolt"? Because that's how you normally cast the spell, so there's no need to specify this. Guiding Bolt always takes a Magic Action to cast. But in the case of Divine Intervention, the spells available are numerous, and not all of them have the same casting time. But if the intention is to allow you to cast it as a Magic Action (not several Magic Actions, like with longer casting times), then they would specify "Take the Magic Action" because that's what's different from the normal casting of those spells.
They say "You take a Magic Action" because the rules make it clear what Actions are available to you, and the Magic Action has specific rules. The Magic Action is the Action you use cast a spell that requires an action or use a magical effect. In the spellcasting rules, it states that spells with longer cast times require the caster to spend their turn taking the Magic Action while concentrating on the spell.
That's what's happening with Divine Intervention, you're using a feature that isn't explained anywhere else, so they outline what you do according to the rules. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- but spells like Hallow need 24 hours worth of Magic actions. You can still cast it for free without a spell slot, but it simply does not state that the spell completes in that single action.
They don't need to specify taking Magic actions for Guiding Bolt in the Star Map feature because it already says somewhere else in the book that to cast a spell you take the Magic action.
Also they don't boast it in promo, to encourage players creativity.
They gave hints just enough, but not spoiling it (eg. Raise dead)
And there's a thing that explicitly confirming it. It's in the book itself.
The rule of magic action and divine intervention.
Respectfully, the video discusses the feature in clear detail. They boast proudly about how Raise Dead no longer needs component costs, and how the spell can be any cleric spell and how it doesn't use a spell slot. They explained everything about the feature in enthusiastic detail.
The PHB isn't a mystery novel with a surprise twist at the end -- it's a rule book. It's there to provide clear, explicit guidance on how the game works. And the book does not say that the cast time is reduced to an action, it says you use a Magic action to select and cast a Cleric spell.
"it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal. you to cast Hallow as normal."
There's no saying of such things in the book. It's specifically said "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components"
Means as the same magic action duration of divine intervention which is one action.
The problem is the word "cast" Which i hate English..
It supposed to be "just let it happen" but no!
English lack word if it so they used "cast" Because it's a magic spell and they need to be "casted" For it to be happens.
Which then can be taken by exploit to assume that it uses normal spellcasting time, because some people unable to comprehend magic action does.
"You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell."
True, that's how divine intervention works. If only you understand the "cast"
"Normal spellcasting rules still apply."
No it doesn't.. Normal spellcasting rule doesn't apply, it follows how divine intervention do.
Remember it's a class feature, not casting a spell. "Casting" a spell is just part of it.
Just quoting it to highlight my point once again, the PHB is not a novel or creative writing. It's a rulebook.
The word "cast" means a very specific thing in the rules.
When a feature says "you cast a spell", it is referencing the specific rules of casting a spell. It is saying "if you follow the rules of casting a spell, the spell will take effect". These rules say that to cast a spell, you must meet these conditions:
have the spell available to cast,
have a spell slot available to spend on it,
use any verbal/material/somatic components needed,
hold concentration if needed,
satisfy the cast time it takes to complete the spell
Once you meet all these conditions, your spell takes effect.
In every example where one of these conditions can be ignored, the rules explicitly state so. Paladins can cast Divine Smite once per LR without expending a spell slot, Sorcerers can cast spells without Verbal or Somatic components when using Subtle Spell, etc. There are many examples of this.
Divine Intervention follows this trend. It explains that you can select a spell from the Cleric list, it explains you don't spend any slots, and it explains you don't need any Material components. It also states that you can cast the spell as part of the action, and this is what people are misinterpreting. All this line means is that you can use the same Magic action you activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic Action requirement of the spell's cast time.
When you cast the spell in that action, you still need to satisfy the other conditions. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- and spells with longer cast times need more than one Magic Action to complete.
If Divine Intervention allowed you to skip the cast time, it would say "As a Magic action, select a spell from the Cleric spell list. The spell takes effect." But it doesn't say that -- it says "you cast the spell", meaning you follow the rules for casting a spell.
It seems like a very convoluted way to word it, then, if that's what they meant. They could have said something like "Once per Long Rest, you can cast any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." Easy and simple.
Instead, they ended up saying something like "You take the Magic Action (completely pointless to say this because casting a spell always requires you to take the Magic Action). Then, you choose the spell you're going to cast, then you cast it, but that casting Magic Action is absorbed by the other Magic Action that you used when using this feature."
The feature Star Map of the Circle of the Stars says "...you can cast Guiding Bolt without expending a spell slot." Why doesn't it say "You can take the Magic Action and cast Guiding Bolt"? Because that's how you normally cast the spell, so there's no need to specify this. Guiding Bolt always takes a Magic Action to cast. But in the case of Divine Intervention, the spells available are numerous, and not all of them have the same casting time. But if the intention is to allow you to cast it as a Magic Action (not several Magic Actions, like with longer casting times), then they would specify "Take the Magic Action" because that's what's different from the normal casting of those spells.
They say "You take a Magic Action" because the rules make it clear what Actions are available to you, and the Magic Action has specific rules. The Magic Action is the Action you use cast a spell that requires an action or use a magical effect. In the spellcasting rules, it states that spells with longer cast times require the caster to spend their turn taking the Magic Action while concentrating on the spell.
That's what's happening with Divine Intervention, you're using a feature that isn't explained anywhere else, so they outline what you do according to the rules. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- but spells like Hallow need 24 hours worth of Magic actions. You can still cast it for free without a spell slot, but it simply does not state that the spell completes in that single action.
They don't need to specify taking Magic actions for Guiding Bolt in the Star Map feature because it already says somewhere else in the book that to cast a spell you take the Magic action.
Also they don't boast it in promo, to encourage players creativity.
They gave hints just enough, but not spoiling it (eg. Raise dead)
And there's a thing that explicitly confirming it. It's in the book itself.
The rule of magic action and divine intervention.
Respectfully, the video discusses the feature in clear detail. They boast proudly about how Raise Dead no longer needs component costs, and how the spell can be any cleric spell and how it doesn't use a spell slot. They explained everything about the feature in enthusiastic detail.
The PHB isn't a mystery novel with a surprise twist at the end -- it's a rule book. It's there to provide clear, explicit guidance on how the game works. And the book does not say that the cast time is reduced to an action, it says you use a Magic action to select and cast a Cleric spell.
"it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal. you to cast Hallow as normal."
There's no saying of such things in the book. It's specifically said "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components"
Means as the same magic action duration of divine intervention which is one action.
The problem is the word "cast" Which i hate English..
It supposed to be "just let it happen" but no!
English lack word if it so they used "cast" Because it's a magic spell and they need to be "casted" For it to be happens.
Which then can be taken by exploit to assume that it uses normal spellcasting time, because some people unable to comprehend magic action does.
"You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell."
True, that's how divine intervention works. If only you understand the "cast"
"Normal spellcasting rules still apply."
No it doesn't.. Normal spellcasting rule doesn't apply, it follows how divine intervention do.
Remember it's a class feature, not casting a spell. "Casting" a spell is just part of it.
Just quoting it to highlight my point once again, the PHB is not a novel or creative writing. It's a rulebook.
The word "cast" means a very specific thing in the rules.
When a feature says "you cast a spell", it is referencing the specific rules of casting a spell. It is saying "if you follow the rules of casting a spell, the spell will take effect". These rules say that to cast a spell, you must meet these conditions:
have the spell available to cast,
have a spell slot available to spend on it,
use any verbal/material/somatic components needed,
hold concentration if needed,
satisfy the cast time it takes to complete the spell
Once you meet all these conditions, your spell takes effect.
In every example where one of these conditions can be ignored, the rules explicitly state so. Paladins can cast Divine Smite once per LR without expending a spell slot, Sorcerers can cast spells without Verbal or Somatic components when using Subtle Spell, etc. There are many examples of this.
Divine Intervention follows this trend. It explains that you can select a spell from the Cleric list, it explains you don't spend any slots, and it explains you don't need any Material components. It also states that you can cast the spell as part of the action, and this is what people are misinterpreting. All this line means is that you can use the same Magic action you activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic Action requirement of the spell's cast time.
When you cast the spell in that action, you still need to satisfy the other conditions. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- and spells with longer cast times need more than one Magic Action to complete.
If Divine Intervention allowed you to skip the cast time, it would say "As a Magic action, select a spell from the Cleric spell list. The spell takes effect." But it doesn't say that -- it says "you cast the spell", meaning you follow the rules for casting a spell.
Alright it's cast then
Even if it is cast it's still tied to the magic action of divine intervention. Which is a feature not a spell. Means casting the spell following the divine intervention time.
The rules of spellcasting still valid even so. If the spell requires concentration, it's still need to concentrate.
Divine intervention specifically said
1. As part of the same action
2. Without expending spell slots
3. Without material components
So that's clear enough. Only 1 action, without spell slots, without material components. This is if we go RAW, if you don't believe me go read the newest phb. They updated it.
You didn't understand what I mean. I know why they specify you need to "Take a Magic Action". That's obvious. Like you said, it's a feature that isn't casting a spell, it's something else that's not described anywhere else, so they have to describe how it works. My point was, why would they create this new Magic Action when all they want to do is allow you to cast an existing spell?
Coming back to my Star Map example, why didn't they write "You can take the Magic Action. As part of that action, you can cast the Guiding Bolt spell."? Because it would be pointless. Why would they create a Magic Action that simply allows you to cast a spell the regular way? Features that let you cast spells simply say "You can cast X spell." They never say "As a Magic Action, you can cast X spell." Because it would be redundant and unnecessary.
If the intention was to cast a spell the normal way, then it would say "You can cast any Cleric spell...", done. There'd be no point in separating the Magic Action that triggers the feature from the Magic Action that casts the spell, only to merge them together again immediately afterwards. If they felt the need to give this feature its own Magic Action is because it replaces the one used for the spell.
"you can use the same Magic action you activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic Action requirement of the spell's cast time"
Sorry there's nothing such of this explanation in the book.
It's written "as part of the same action"
Magic action however there's an explanation of it in the book. Let me quote.
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”"
There.. The entirety of it.
Divine intervention.. Isn't a spell, it doesn't have casting time. It's a class feature.
What does the part from casting spell as part of the same action that you don't understand?
It means you cast a spell as part of divine intervention. We back again... Divine intervention doesn't have a casting time... It's a class feature.
So you cast a spell as divine intervention. You're not casting spell normally.. You cast it.. As divine intervention.
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I've seen some suggestion that the 2024 Cleric's Divine Intervention allows you to cast any spell in a single action, bypassing the usual cast times if spells like Planar Binding or Prayer of Healing.
To me, this sounds more like a misunderstanding of how the Magic (Action) works, but I'd love an official word on this.
Paraphrased, Divine Intervention states "Take the Magic action and select a cleric spell. As part of the same action, you Cast that spell. You do not spend a spell slot or any costly components."
Divine Intervention clearly says you don't spend any resources on the cast, but it doesn't clearly say the spell completes in one action. It just says "You cast the spell as part of the Action."
The rules for spellcasting state that 'You take the Magic action and cast a spell. If the spell has a casting time of 1 minute or more, you must spend each turn during that time using the Magic action and maintaining concentration."
We can compare it to Wish. Both say that you bypass the need for expensive components. Wish copies a spell effect, Divine Intervention gives you a free use of a spell. But Divine Intervention doesn't say the spell takes effect immediately, unlike the Wish spell. It just says "you cast the spell".
This means if you choose a spell that takes more than one action to cast, it doesn't change the cast time. Beginning a 1 minute cast of a spell is still casting the spell as part of the Divine Intervention Magic action.
I feel like there's a lot of discussion about this feature based on the assumption that it waives the cast time along with the materials and spell slot cost. Can we get an official clarification of this?
I mean, you can ask Jeremy Crawford if you want an official clarification. But the spell clearly says you cast the spell as an action. Casting a spell is...well, casting a spell. Not starting the action. If a Wild Magic sorcerer starts casting a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, would the Wild Magic Surge trigger as soon as they start casting the spell, or when the spell is actually cast?
I said this before in a different conversation, but performing an action means completing it. I'll use the same example: If you started reading a book, but only read the first half, would you say that you read the book?
This has been covered by Jeremy himself in an interview about the 2024 PHB changes. Divine Intervention is meant to be a get out of jail free card for clerics to cast any 5th level or lower spell without reagent and spell slot usage. Since the casting of the spell is tied to the ability usage and it has no timing restriction on the ability usage, the spell is effectively "cast" as your DI finishes.
It works this way as of the 2024 PHB Playtest and went unchanged through publication.
I'm trying to find as much official discussion of this as possible, what was the video you're referring to?
Around the 12 minute mark
It's supposed to be a get out a jail free card i think. So, any cleric spell list 5 lvl and below is free to use without anything. Kinda like a mini wish spell. And it feels more consistent feeling with previous divine intervention on 2014 cleric class, which is a mini wish spell. They just add some "certainty" Part of it to make it actually meaningful. Like you can rely on it as an ability/feat instead of having chance to fail.
Look at this interview
https://youtu.be/6BCBrHNvMf0?si=j7d3XfsKF9n9ke1o&t=230
Also as the part of the same action means that the same part as you cast divine intervention, which is having a cast time of an action (i quote "use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated").
It's all terminology thingy
So yeah if you use divine intervention then, hallow, prayer of healing, raise dead, are all done in the same time when you activate divine intervention, which is done in an action (magic, you activate the divine intervention as a feature)
Here's a simpler analogy..
I don't cast "hallow"
I cast "divine intervention" Which uses "hallow"
I've viewed the video and there's never any point where Jeremy states the casting time is bypassed. He says "You pick a spell in your back pocket, and cast it", and also that "what's great is, it doesn't use a spell slot, and doesn't cost any material components."
If it bypassed the cast time, I'd definitely be promoting that as a key feature.
The fact that Divine Intervention gets upgraded to a free cast of Wish in the end game makes me even more certain that the cast time isn't meant to be bypassed -- because the Wish spell is what explicitly duplicates and instantly casts a lower level spell, and the wording of Wish is distinct from Divine Intervention.
Divine Intervention states that you, very specifically, cast the spell. And the rules state that when you cast a spell with a long cast time, you spend your action for that full duration casting the spell.
I'm just unconvinced that the cast time is bypassed. There's nothing explicitly confirming it, and it's such an important and powerful boost I can't see why they wouldn't be boasting about it in the promos if that wasn't the intent.
This analogy doesn't work, because the feature explicitly says "You cast the spell." Divine Intervention isn't replicating Hallow, it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal.
You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell.
You're not using the effect of another spell. It's not a modified Wish, it's a modified method of the normal casting your cleric spells. Instead of selecting from your prepared spell list, you can select any spell from the cleric list. Normal spellcasting rules still apply.
In contrast, Wish states that Wish takes an action to cast, duplicates the effects of a spell, and the spell 'simply takes effect'. You never cast the spell you selected, so it all takes place in the one action. It's a very clear and distinct effect.
It's still an amazing feature - you can Raise Dead for free, sanctify areas with Hallow for free, and summon Celestial warriors to aid you in battle. You always have the right tool in your back pocket, but you still have to think ahead and be strategic. If you want to instant cast long spells.... you can! At Cleric 20, Divine Intervention is upgraded to allow Wish. That, to me, speaks of the Cleric bringing forth immediate miracles.
It seems like a very convoluted way to word it, then, if that's what they meant. They could have said something like "Once per Long Rest, you can cast any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower without expending a spell slot or needing Material components." Easy and simple.
Instead, they ended up saying something like "You take the Magic Action (completely pointless to say this because casting a spell always requires you to take the Magic Action). Then, you choose the spell you're going to cast, then you cast it, but that casting Magic Action is absorbed by the other Magic Action that you used when using this feature."
The feature Star Map of the Circle of the Stars says "...you can cast Guiding Bolt without expending a spell slot." Why doesn't it say "You can take the Magic Action and cast Guiding Bolt"? Because that's how you normally cast the spell, so there's no need to specify this. Guiding Bolt always takes a Magic Action to cast. But in the case of Divine Intervention, the spells available are numerous, and not all of them have the same casting time. But if the intention is to allow you to cast it as a Magic Action (not several Magic Actions, like with longer casting times), then they would specify "Take the Magic Action" because that's what's different from the normal casting of those spells.
So if you cast Prayer of Healing, do you sit in silence for 10 minutes and say "I cast Prayer of Healing" ? Or do you say you cast prayer of healing and assume the effect takes place after the cast time?
"You pick a spell in your back pocket, and cast it".
This is more into reading comprehension and interpretation i think. I hate English, and this is one of the problem that's go with it.
The problem is in the word "cast"
Cz he's saying as if it's just actually happened just like that. Based on gesture, volume, context, and intonation at the video.
But if we refer to the rules of casting "SPELL"
Which is normal casting time not a feature.
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot."
Means that the second paragraph is applied here.
However in divine intervention...
We use the magic action on the first paragraph, last sentence.. Which is "use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated".
Divine intervention isn't a spell, it's a class FEATURE.
"You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest."
Notice on the sentence "As part of the same action"
Alright.. As part of the same action, means the same part of divine intervention "action" (which in this case a magic action, not as a magic action to cast a spell, but as a class feature)
This is like reading bible btw..
All of these shouldn't actually happens, since the one that made this book still alive today and even connected with internet.
We can just ask for clarifications... Though idk where...
What's this? With or without divine intervention?
If without divine intervention then 10 minutes normally, concentrating each turns until you finish casting it. Or 600 turns in combat if 1 action is 6 seconds (idk my math is bad)
Which is really doesn't make sense to do it in the combat.
This is one spell that supposedly to do well with divine intervention if it's not having casting time.
Like once per long rest.. You can make your party's get their features back that reset on short rest, but in combat. Essentially having like second phase of the boss haha.
But outside the combat? Why bothers... Better taking short rest than waste spell slot 10 minutes to have short rest effect.
Are they really gonna make a useless spell like this for cleric?
Nah, it's supposed to be paired with divine intervention. So it can be used inside the combat without cast time and just happens at that turn. No need to wait 600 turns.
"Divine Intervention isn't replicating Hallow, it
"it just permits you to cast Hallow as normal. you to cast Hallow as normal."
There's no saying of such things in the book. It's specifically said "As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components"
Means as the same magic action duration of divine intervention which is one action.
The problem is the word "cast" Which i hate English..
It supposed to be "just let it happen" but no!
English lack word if it so they used "cast" Because it's a magic spell and they need to be "casted" For it to be happens.
Which then can be taken by exploit to assume that it uses normal spellcasting time, because some people unable to comprehend magic action does.
"You take the Magic Action to Divine Intervention, select a spell, then cast a spell."
True, that's how divine intervention works. If only you understand the "cast"
"Normal spellcasting rules still apply."
No it doesn't.. Normal spellcasting rule doesn't apply, it follows how divine intervention do.
Remember it's a class feature, not casting a spell. "Casting" a spell is just part of it.
Also they don't boast it in promo, to encourage players creativity.
They gave hints just enough, but not spoiling it (eg. Raise dead)
And there's a thing that explicitly confirming it. It's in the book itself.
The rule of magic action and divine intervention.
They say "You take a Magic Action" because the rules make it clear what Actions are available to you, and the Magic Action has specific rules. The Magic Action is the Action you use cast a spell that requires an action or use a magical effect. In the spellcasting rules, it states that spells with longer cast times require the caster to spend their turn taking the Magic Action while concentrating on the spell.
That's what's happening with Divine Intervention, you're using a feature that isn't explained anywhere else, so they outline what you do according to the rules. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- but spells like Hallow need 24 hours worth of Magic actions. You can still cast it for free without a spell slot, but it simply does not state that the spell completes in that single action.
They don't need to specify taking Magic actions for Guiding Bolt in the Star Map feature because it already says somewhere else in the book that to cast a spell you take the Magic action.
Respectfully, the video discusses the feature in clear detail. They boast proudly about how Raise Dead no longer needs component costs, and how the spell can be any cleric spell and how it doesn't use a spell slot. They explained everything about the feature in enthusiastic detail.
The PHB isn't a mystery novel with a surprise twist at the end -- it's a rule book. It's there to provide clear, explicit guidance on how the game works. And the book does not say that the cast time is reduced to an action, it says you use a Magic action to select and cast a Cleric spell.
Just quoting it to highlight my point once again, the PHB is not a novel or creative writing. It's a rulebook.
The word "cast" means a very specific thing in the rules.
When a feature says "you cast a spell", it is referencing the specific rules of casting a spell. It is saying "if you follow the rules of casting a spell, the spell will take effect". These rules say that to cast a spell, you must meet these conditions:
Once you meet all these conditions, your spell takes effect.
In every example where one of these conditions can be ignored, the rules explicitly state so. Paladins can cast Divine Smite once per LR without expending a spell slot, Sorcerers can cast spells without Verbal or Somatic components when using Subtle Spell, etc. There are many examples of this.
Divine Intervention follows this trend. It explains that you can select a spell from the Cleric list, it explains you don't spend any slots, and it explains you don't need any Material components. It also states that you can cast the spell as part of the action, and this is what people are misinterpreting. All this line means is that you can use the same Magic action you activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic Action requirement of the spell's cast time.
When you cast the spell in that action, you still need to satisfy the other conditions. The feature just allows you to use the same Magic action that activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic action required to cast the spell -- and spells with longer cast times need more than one Magic Action to complete.
If Divine Intervention allowed you to skip the cast time, it would say "As a Magic action, select a spell from the Cleric spell list. The spell takes effect." But it doesn't say that -- it says "you cast the spell", meaning you follow the rules for casting a spell.
Alright it's cast then
Even if it is cast it's still tied to the magic action of divine intervention. Which is a feature not a spell. Means casting the spell following the divine intervention time.
The rules of spellcasting still valid even so. If the spell requires concentration, it's still need to concentrate.
Divine intervention specifically said
1. As part of the same action
2. Without expending spell slots
3. Without material components
So that's clear enough. Only 1 action, without spell slots, without material components. This is if we go RAW, if you don't believe me go read the newest phb. They updated it.
You didn't understand what I mean. I know why they specify you need to "Take a Magic Action". That's obvious. Like you said, it's a feature that isn't casting a spell, it's something else that's not described anywhere else, so they have to describe how it works. My point was, why would they create this new Magic Action when all they want to do is allow you to cast an existing spell?
Coming back to my Star Map example, why didn't they write "You can take the Magic Action. As part of that action, you can cast the Guiding Bolt spell."? Because it would be pointless. Why would they create a Magic Action that simply allows you to cast a spell the regular way? Features that let you cast spells simply say "You can cast X spell." They never say "As a Magic Action, you can cast X spell." Because it would be redundant and unnecessary.
If the intention was to cast a spell the normal way, then it would say "You can cast any Cleric spell...", done. There'd be no point in separating the Magic Action that triggers the feature from the Magic Action that casts the spell, only to merge them together again immediately afterwards. If they felt the need to give this feature its own Magic Action is because it replaces the one used for the spell.
"you can use the same Magic action you activated Divine Intervention to also satisfy the Magic Action requirement of the spell's cast time"
Sorry there's nothing such of this explanation in the book.
It's written "as part of the same action"
Magic action however there's an explanation of it in the book. Let me quote.
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”"
There.. The entirety of it.
Divine intervention.. Isn't a spell, it doesn't have casting time. It's a class feature.
What does the part from casting spell as part of the same action that you don't understand?
It means you cast a spell as part of divine intervention. We back again... Divine intervention doesn't have a casting time... It's a class feature.
So you cast a spell as divine intervention. You're not casting spell normally.. You cast it.. As divine intervention.