What kind of AC should I expect to be walking around with at higher levels?
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
What kind of AC should I expect to be walking around with at higher levels?
I've found that it doesn't specifically matter. Creatures at high levels that are a threat with attack rolls are going to hit for the most part no matter what your AC.
Setting up disadvantage or not being hit in the first place is more important than AC.
There are a ton of variables that make this question near-enough unanswerable:
1. War Clerics are proficient in heavy armour, so at a high level, you'd expect a Cleric to have a base AC of at least 18, assuming they can afford Full Plate. Some players may be running a non Strength-based Cleric though, so they may be better suited to wearing Light/Medium armour.
2. Some Clerics choose to wield shields, which will push their AC up by another 2 (to a base of 20). Others don't, which lowers their AC as appropriate.
3. Some DMs like to hand out magic items more regularly than others, and obviously some items exist that can increase your AC by certain values: +1/2/3 Plate and +1/2/3 Shields all exist, though your access to them may well be limited. There are other items beside armour that can affect your overall AC, but these would be the most common examples.
4. Feats, Fighting Styles and other aspects can influence a character's AC beyond what I've already mentioned.
Assuming by "higher levels" you're talking about 12-17ish, your DM is handing out magic items at a reasonable pace, you're wielding a shield, and you've taken no fighting styles to supplement your AC, you could expect to have an AC of around 21-23. Way too many factors to accurately pin down what your AC should be in your specific situation, though - also take into account that the AC of an Ancient Red Dragon is only 22, and you should appreciate why it's hard to really justify pushing your average player's AC even higher.
Depends on what you mean by high levels and also if you're talking AL vs Homebrew.
Most campaigns top out around 15 and can theoretically go for years in to the 30s. I haven't really heard of much higher levels and that usually requires a LOT of homebrew.
For AL, a level 20 cleric gearing for AC without chewing up attunement slots and (without spells) could reasonably expect an AC of 26. +3 Full plate (21) plus +3 shield (5) and depending Spells could get you a few more points but that would be your baseline. Obviously, special equipment is going to bend the curve but that should be the "walking around expectation" to shoot for.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
There are a ton of variables that make this question near-enough unanswerable:
1. War Clerics are proficient in heavy armour, so at a high level, you'd expect a Cleric to have a base AC of at least 18, assuming they can afford Full Plate. Some players may be running a non Strength-based Cleric though, so they may be better suited to wearing Light/Medium armour.
2. Some Clerics choose to wield shields, which will push their AC up by another 2 (to a base of 20). Others don't, which lowers their AC as appropriate.
3. Some DMs like to hand out magic items more regularly than others, and obviously some items exist that can increase your AC by certain values: +1/2/3 Plate and +1/2/3 Shields all exist, though your access to them may well be limited. There are other items beside armour that can affect your overall AC, but these would be the most common examples.
4. Feats, Fighting Styles and other aspects can influence a character's AC beyond what I've already mentioned.
Assuming by "higher levels" you're talking about 12-17ish, your DM is handing out magic items at a reasonable pace, you're wielding a shield, and you've taken no fighting styles to supplement your AC, you could expect to have an AC of around 21-23. Way too many factors to accurately pin down what your AC should be in your specific situation, though - also take into account that the AC of an Ancient Red Dragon is only 22, and you should appreciate why it's hard to really justify pushing your average player's AC even higher.
This response makes much more sense to me. It measures your advancement and anticipated AC vs a known threat. There are far too many variables to accurately predict this without actually being in your game and observing how magic items are dispensed.
Depends on what you mean by high levels and also if you're talking AL vs Homebrew.
Most campaigns top out around 15 and can theoretically go for years in to the 30s. I haven't really heard of much higher levels and that usually requires a LOT of homebrew.
For AL, a level 20 cleric gearing for AC without chewing up attunement slots and (without spells) could reasonably expect an AC of 26. +3 Full plate (21) plus +3 shield (5) and depending Spells could get you a few more points but that would be your baseline. Obviously, special equipment is going to bend the curve but that should be the "walking around expectation" to shoot for.
While the AC of 26 is feasible by looking at the numbers it is not something that you should expect. Those +3 items are very rare (shield) and legendary (+3 plate). I would not expect my PC to be walking around with Legendary armor. It might happen as a course of circumstance but I wouldn't expect it.
Taking into account the Ancient Red Dragon example perhaps the PC goes on a quest for legendary armor that will allow him to stand toe to toe with said dragon. But Keeping up with the Joneses would be more along the line of having a +1 or +2 version of those items.
Everything is up to interpretation and DM choice of course.
Your first & last line says it all. The other post seemed to have the variables accounted for but didn't apply the top of the line, expectation
Expectations will vary by DM and table. Speaking specifically from AL stand point as a baseline. You have a good chance to get that gear sort of gear by 20.
Homebrews could start the game with +3 or never see a +1 and it all depends on the setting and type of game. We play Eberron and low level magic is easy to come by as it is woven into the economy but high level stuff is near Impossible if it isn't a plot point.
The other post seemed to have the variables accounted for but didn't apply the top of the line, expectation
Speaking specifically from AL stand point as a baseline. You have a good chance to get that gear sort of gear by 20.
I think that's just fairly indicative (not in a bad way) of the type of player/playstyle that AL attracts: a playstyle that revolves around stats, number-crunching, tracking progress, and building up a tracked bank of increasingly powerful magic items - something that suits certain types of players/DMs and doesn't suit others, and that's perfectly fine.
I was purely making my observations based off of non-AL experience and knowledge, ceding that my example was not that of a maxed-out PC; if they wanted to know just how high a Cleric's AC can be pushed, they could've Googled "Highest possible AC Cleric 5e" and I'm sure OP could've found their answer. Not saying your point here is wrong, I just made an attempt to answer the question OP posited with the best of my knowledge, giving a reasonable expectation, not a stat-grinder's dream scenario.
Didn't think such a simple question would generate such a response, did you DtotheD?
And since the OP didn't give us much more to go on, we can agree that we have sufficiently answered the question to the best of our ability and can take that and apply it to whatever that situation calls for. In summary, and as usual, the best answer we can give here is "Table Variance" as it is wholly dependent on the DM, setting, etc.
Anti's reasonable expectation is based on his experience from his homebrew games. I merely sought to provide the answer from the most standardized experience the greatest number of people will receive. From core campaign books and the parallel running Adventure League adventures is that you can reasonably expect to attain +3 legendary items by the time you reach legendary status at 20. No stat-grinding necessary.
What I like about campaign books and AL, is the standardized structure/baseline, so I know what to expect when I sit down at a table with strangers, and that expectation is that everyone will be balanced around the core rules and reasonably paced release of magic items by WotC staff. Further, that a large community will have a shared bank of increasing epic experiences. I can understand why you would think that number-crunching is a fairly indicative play style/player outlook to AL but my experience is that it doesn't revolve around that any more than any home games I've been in. It certainly isn't my approach to style and play. If you were to watch me DM, I think it would be readily apparent.
Remember, it's all about the experience and the storytelling, and there is no right or wrong way as long as your table is having fun.
What kind of AC should I expect to be walking around with at higher levels?
I've found that it doesn't specifically matter. Creatures at high levels that are a threat with attack rolls are going to hit for the most part no matter what your AC.
Setting up disadvantage or not being hit in the first place is more important than AC.
Yeah Ruty, apologies if I came off as brash or dismissive - not my intention with that reply. I'm purely pointing out that the "formal" structure of AL material, and the tracking that goes with it: magic item official codes, and having to notarise a ton of the information that's given to you in order to earn additional experience can be something that a lot of players don't buy into, because it removes the suspension of disbelief for a while, usually directly after the game. More or less everything you've said is true though, so I'm not here to dispute your DMing style or anything like that, more playing devil's advocate to more thoroughly flesh out an answer.
Aaaaand, at the end of the day, your final point hits the nail on the head - as long as everyone's enjoying themselves the majority of the time, then who's to tell you that what you're doing is wrong?
It's all good. Organize Play has always functioned in a way that allows DM's to make sure that players aren't coming to the table with characters or items pulled from outside the rules. If you think about it, a home DM does the same thing on a much smaller scale or a Massive Multiplayer Online RPG would function with authentication. The only real difference being that we DM's set on bringing in new players by convention, or comradery, can't work by proxy of a larger computer system, yet, and this is the best way we currently have to handle the enormous amount of players coming to the table. I can understand how overwhelming, or mechanical, that can seem to players used to homebrew.
I can tell you I would prefer not to have to track players trustworthiness by paper but rather just attaching my DCI number to an item in their inventory from an adventure I ran for them. Who knows, perhaps an answer lies within D&DBeyond?
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What kind of AC should I expect to be walking around with at higher levels?
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
There are a ton of variables that make this question near-enough unanswerable:
1. War Clerics are proficient in heavy armour, so at a high level, you'd expect a Cleric to have a base AC of at least 18, assuming they can afford Full Plate. Some players may be running a non Strength-based Cleric though, so they may be better suited to wearing Light/Medium armour.
2. Some Clerics choose to wield shields, which will push their AC up by another 2 (to a base of 20). Others don't, which lowers their AC as appropriate.
3. Some DMs like to hand out magic items more regularly than others, and obviously some items exist that can increase your AC by certain values: +1/2/3 Plate and +1/2/3 Shields all exist, though your access to them may well be limited. There are other items beside armour that can affect your overall AC, but these would be the most common examples.
4. Feats, Fighting Styles and other aspects can influence a character's AC beyond what I've already mentioned.
Assuming by "higher levels" you're talking about 12-17ish, your DM is handing out magic items at a reasonable pace, you're wielding a shield, and you've taken no fighting styles to supplement your AC, you could expect to have an AC of around 21-23. Way too many factors to accurately pin down what your AC should be in your specific situation, though - also take into account that the AC of an Ancient Red Dragon is only 22, and you should appreciate why it's hard to really justify pushing your average player's AC even higher.
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InsiderDepends on what you mean by high levels and also if you're talking AL vs Homebrew.
Most campaigns top out around 15 and can theoretically go for years in to the 30s. I haven't really heard of much higher levels and that usually requires a LOT of homebrew.
For AL, a level 20 cleric gearing for AC without chewing up attunement slots and (without spells) could reasonably expect an AC of 26. +3 Full plate (21) plus +3 shield (5) and depending Spells could get you a few more points but that would be your baseline. Obviously, special equipment is going to bend the curve but that should be the "walking around expectation" to shoot for.
Thanks, That some really good points made.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
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InsiderYour first & last line says it all. The other post seemed to have the variables accounted for but didn't apply the top of the line, expectation
Expectations will vary by DM and table. Speaking specifically from AL stand point as a baseline. You have a good chance to get that gear sort of gear by 20.
Homebrews could start the game with +3 or never see a +1 and it all depends on the setting and type of game. We play Eberron and low level magic is easy to come by as it is woven into the economy but high level stuff is near Impossible if it isn't a plot point.
I think that's just fairly indicative (not in a bad way) of the type of player/playstyle that AL attracts: a playstyle that revolves around stats, number-crunching, tracking progress, and building up a tracked bank of increasingly powerful magic items - something that suits certain types of players/DMs and doesn't suit others, and that's perfectly fine.
I was purely making my observations based off of non-AL experience and knowledge, ceding that my example was not that of a maxed-out PC; if they wanted to know just how high a Cleric's AC can be pushed, they could've Googled "Highest possible AC Cleric 5e" and I'm sure OP could've found their answer. Not saying your point here is wrong, I just made an attempt to answer the question OP posited with the best of my knowledge, giving a reasonable expectation, not a stat-grinder's dream scenario.
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InsiderDidn't think such a simple question would generate such a response, did you DtotheD?
And since the OP didn't give us much more to go on, we can agree that we have sufficiently answered the question to the best of our ability and can take that and apply it to whatever that situation calls for. In summary, and as usual, the best answer we can give here is "Table Variance" as it is wholly dependent on the DM, setting, etc.
Anti's reasonable expectation is based on his experience from his homebrew games. I merely sought to provide the answer from the most standardized experience the greatest number of people will receive. From core campaign books and the parallel running Adventure League adventures is that you can reasonably expect to attain +3 legendary items by the time you reach legendary status at 20. No stat-grinding necessary.
What I like about campaign books and AL, is the standardized structure/baseline, so I know what to expect when I sit down at a table with strangers, and that expectation is that everyone will be balanced around the core rules and reasonably paced release of magic items by WotC staff. Further, that a large community will have a shared bank of increasing epic experiences. I can understand why you would think that number-crunching is a fairly indicative play style/player outlook to AL but my experience is that it doesn't revolve around that any more than any home games I've been in. It certainly isn't my approach to style and play. If you were to watch me DM, I think it would be readily apparent.
Remember, it's all about the experience and the storytelling, and there is no right or wrong way as long as your table is having fun.
Yeah Ruty, apologies if I came off as brash or dismissive - not my intention with that reply. I'm purely pointing out that the "formal" structure of AL material, and the tracking that goes with it: magic item official codes, and having to notarise a ton of the information that's given to you in order to earn additional experience can be something that a lot of players don't buy into, because it removes the suspension of disbelief for a while, usually directly after the game. More or less everything you've said is true though, so I'm not here to dispute your DMing style or anything like that, more playing devil's advocate to more thoroughly flesh out an answer.
Aaaaand, at the end of the day, your final point hits the nail on the head - as long as everyone's enjoying themselves the majority of the time, then who's to tell you that what you're doing is wrong?
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InsiderIt's all good. Organize Play has always functioned in a way that allows DM's to make sure that players aren't coming to the table with characters or items pulled from outside the rules. If you think about it, a home DM does the same thing on a much smaller scale or a Massive Multiplayer Online RPG would function with authentication. The only real difference being that we DM's set on bringing in new players by convention, or comradery, can't work by proxy of a larger computer system, yet, and this is the best way we currently have to handle the enormous amount of players coming to the table. I can understand how overwhelming, or mechanical, that can seem to players used to homebrew.
I can tell you I would prefer not to have to track players trustworthiness by paper but rather just attaching my DCI number to an item in their inventory from an adventure I ran for them. Who knows, perhaps an answer lies within D&DBeyond?