Im looking to make a battlefield trickster type build. Decent mobility, controlling spells, preferably melee. I’m not sure how to go about this but I figured trickery cleric would be a good place to start with maybe some levels in rogue for cunning action to move around the battlefield easier. I also like the idea of some kind of fey/elven flavor so I was thinking maybe levels in archfey but that seemed like it would get quite MAD.
Any suggestions are welcome, and if this concept is not realistic in RAW I’d love to hear it. True optimization is not required but I would like to make an effective class if possible.
Sounds like you might be thinking a dex build, which means a high elf should be considered as a way to get booming blade as a semi control spell. There are other ways to get it (including mc warlock) so it's not crucial. Human variant can get a feat to get it as well at one. Otherwise, finding a way to get polearm master and sentinel (or just sentinel) is a good way to help lock down creatures coming in your area.
High elf was my first pick both mechanically and thematically. I was also going to try to stay away from builds that get Multiattack as to not waste it if I use booming blade all the time. I’m not sure if cleric is my best route to get my idea in motion as well as what spells to take or if I should multiclass.
I would think that bane and bless would be the start of your shenanigans. Sanctuary has a bit of a battlefield control feel to it. You'll always have charm person prepared as a trickery cleric, which could come in handy for those moments when you want advantage for persuasion checks or, DM pending, causing an NPC to be pissed at a rival because of the NPC thinking it was for the rival's benefit that it was cast. Disguise Self is the other always prepared spell and speaks for itself. There aren't a bunch of controlling spells for cleric at first level so it'll probably be more buffing/debuffing. Guiding bolt is likely the only type of damage spell you'll want to take, one that damages and has a debuff attached to it. Guidance, Sacred Flame/Toll the dead, and thaumaturgy will probably be your first cantrips.
2nd level spells, Aid, blindness/ deafness, calm emotions, heat metal, hold person, silence, warding bond, zone of truth and your trickery domain provided spells (mirror image and pass without trace) all look promising.
If you go rogue 3+ to get cunning action (@2) and an archetype, you could get minor illusion and mold earth for cantrips and a few 1st level wizard spells (I believe limited to the schools of abjuration and illusion, but don't quote me on that) to help by choosing arcane trickster. Rogue and cleric multiclass would require 13 dex and 13 wis, and the arcane trickster spells will require intellect for the spell save DC. You'll want to weigh that in when considering that choice, as well as remembering that a cleric 3/rogue 3 will only have the spell slot progression of a cleric 4 if the archetype is arcane trickster and cleric 3 other wise.
Another possibility that would be less mad would be to dip druid to get some of their control spells plus shapeshift, which would be pretty on flavor from my standpoint. Have the discussion with your DM if your character would have to abide by the no metal armor clause if you dip. You'll have some strong points in your favor of not having to since you'll be primarily cleric, having started at cleric, and the fact that your domain is trickery and you're just trying to get as many tricks in up your sleeve. If the DM doesn't relent you can find another option.
Correction, going Rogue -> ATrickster gets you spells of the Enchantment and illusion spells. That said, I don't particularly recommend it for the reasons given by Jhfffan.
Lightfood halfing is a not a bad pick in that you get more "luck" and the ability to hide behind creatures, including your enemies.
At 1st level Cleric, you also get Command, which is a great little spell that is useful on and off the battlefield (unlike Charm Person.)
A lot of what direction you want to go will depend on your play style and the campaign:.
* Do you see yourself wanting to use the sneak attack mechanic? Do you like expertise in skills? Go Rogue.
* Do you like having a lot of options for maneuvering and stealth? Are you going to be in an outdoor campaign? Go Circle of the Moon Druid.
* Do you want to slice and dice and have a pet? Don't mind doing a lot of research on beasts? Go Beastmaster Ranger.
One of the main issues with Cleric multi-classing to other casters (for their known spells) is that MCing with other Wis-based casters (Druid & Ranger) actually offer very little for the cost. There aren't a ton of spells that Druid/Ranger have that Cleric doesn't also have, and most of those spells aren't very useful. Shillelagh and the ridiculously broken Healing Spirit are basically it. Some of the good damaging spells like Flaming Sphere or Call Lightning are either covered by a Cleric domain already, or just not worth investing multiple levels into Druid to get them.
Dipping to an Int or Cha casting class for extra spells offers a huge spread of possibilities, but carries the downside of being based on a different spellcasting ability. If you've rolled well for stats, that's probably not a problem. If you're restricted to standard array or point-buy, that's a very real hindrance that needs to be weighed. A lot of the utility spells don't require an attack roll or saving throw, so the dependence on another spellcasting ability is less important if these are the spells you're going to dip for.
Arcana/Knowledge Cleric domains offer the most versatility in types of spells while sticking to Wisdom as your main ability score. Trickery is, frankly, underwhelming in actual practice, and focuses more on yourself than others. The Channel Divinity feature is awesome in theory, but it also requires your concentration. No Bless, Bane, Spirit Guardians, Shield of Faith, etc. Any actual value from using the feature (aside from potential advantage in melee) is entirely dependent on your DM.
If you want a controller build, I'd actually recommend looking at the Order Domain.
Rather than dipping into Rogue for utility, I would recommend Bard: full caster progression, expertise in main skills, half-proficiency in every skill, choice of college to augment specific play-style.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Im looking to make a battlefield trickster type build. Decent mobility, controlling spells, preferably melee. I’m not sure how to go about this but I figured trickery cleric would be a good place to start with maybe some levels in rogue for cunning action to move around the battlefield easier. I also like the idea of some kind of fey/elven flavor so I was thinking maybe levels in archfey but that seemed like it would get quite MAD.
Any suggestions are welcome, and if this concept is not realistic in RAW I’d love to hear it. True optimization is not required but I would like to make an effective class if possible.
Sounds like you might be thinking a dex build, which means a high elf should be considered as a way to get booming blade as a semi control spell. There are other ways to get it (including mc warlock) so it's not crucial. Human variant can get a feat to get it as well at one. Otherwise, finding a way to get polearm master and sentinel (or just sentinel) is a good way to help lock down creatures coming in your area.
High elf was my first pick both mechanically and thematically. I was also going to try to stay away from builds that get Multiattack as to not waste it if I use booming blade all the time. I’m not sure if cleric is my best route to get my idea in motion as well as what spells to take or if I should multiclass.
I would think that bane and bless would be the start of your shenanigans. Sanctuary has a bit of a battlefield control feel to it. You'll always have charm person prepared as a trickery cleric, which could come in handy for those moments when you want advantage for persuasion checks or, DM pending, causing an NPC to be pissed at a rival because of the NPC thinking it was for the rival's benefit that it was cast. Disguise Self is the other always prepared spell and speaks for itself. There aren't a bunch of controlling spells for cleric at first level so it'll probably be more buffing/debuffing. Guiding bolt is likely the only type of damage spell you'll want to take, one that damages and has a debuff attached to it. Guidance, Sacred Flame/Toll the dead, and thaumaturgy will probably be your first cantrips.
2nd level spells, Aid, blindness/ deafness, calm emotions, heat metal, hold person, silence, warding bond, zone of truth and your trickery domain provided spells (mirror image and pass without trace) all look promising.
If you go rogue 3+ to get cunning action (@2) and an archetype, you could get minor illusion and mold earth for cantrips and a few 1st level wizard spells (I believe limited to the schools of abjuration and illusion, but don't quote me on that) to help by choosing arcane trickster. Rogue and cleric multiclass would require 13 dex and 13 wis, and the arcane trickster spells will require intellect for the spell save DC. You'll want to weigh that in when considering that choice, as well as remembering that a cleric 3/rogue 3 will only have the spell slot progression of a cleric 4 if the archetype is arcane trickster and cleric 3 other wise.
Another possibility that would be less mad would be to dip druid to get some of their control spells plus shapeshift, which would be pretty on flavor from my standpoint. Have the discussion with your DM if your character would have to abide by the no metal armor clause if you dip. You'll have some strong points in your favor of not having to since you'll be primarily cleric, having started at cleric, and the fact that your domain is trickery and you're just trying to get as many tricks in up your sleeve. If the DM doesn't relent you can find another option.
Correction, going Rogue -> ATrickster gets you spells of the Enchantment and illusion spells. That said, I don't particularly recommend it for the reasons given by Jhfffan.
Lightfood halfing is a not a bad pick in that you get more "luck" and the ability to hide behind creatures, including your enemies.
At 1st level Cleric, you also get Command, which is a great little spell that is useful on and off the battlefield (unlike Charm Person.)
A lot of what direction you want to go will depend on your play style and the campaign:.
* Do you see yourself wanting to use the sneak attack mechanic? Do you like expertise in skills? Go Rogue.
* Do you like having a lot of options for maneuvering and stealth? Are you going to be in an outdoor campaign? Go Circle of the Moon Druid.
* Do you want to slice and dice and have a pet? Don't mind doing a lot of research on beasts? Go Beastmaster Ranger.
One of the main issues with Cleric multi-classing to other casters (for their known spells) is that MCing with other Wis-based casters (Druid & Ranger) actually offer very little for the cost. There aren't a ton of spells that Druid/Ranger have that Cleric doesn't also have, and most of those spells aren't very useful. Shillelagh and the ridiculously broken Healing Spirit are basically it. Some of the good damaging spells like Flaming Sphere or Call Lightning are either covered by a Cleric domain already, or just not worth investing multiple levels into Druid to get them.
Dipping to an Int or Cha casting class for extra spells offers a huge spread of possibilities, but carries the downside of being based on a different spellcasting ability. If you've rolled well for stats, that's probably not a problem. If you're restricted to standard array or point-buy, that's a very real hindrance that needs to be weighed. A lot of the utility spells don't require an attack roll or saving throw, so the dependence on another spellcasting ability is less important if these are the spells you're going to dip for.
Arcana/Knowledge Cleric domains offer the most versatility in types of spells while sticking to Wisdom as your main ability score. Trickery is, frankly, underwhelming in actual practice, and focuses more on yourself than others. The Channel Divinity feature is awesome in theory, but it also requires your concentration. No Bless, Bane, Spirit Guardians, Shield of Faith, etc. Any actual value from using the feature (aside from potential advantage in melee) is entirely dependent on your DM.
If you want a controller build, I'd actually recommend looking at the Order Domain.
Rather than dipping into Rogue for utility, I would recommend Bard: full caster progression, expertise in main skills, half-proficiency in every skill, choice of college to augment specific play-style.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Which book is the Order Domain covered in? I haven't seen it mentioned before.
Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks. Is it much different from the UA version? Obvs I don't have GGtR.