Remember, that the first bullet point of PAM states, "When you take the Attack action..." If you use BB/GFB you're using the Cast a Spell action, so cannot also use the bonus attack. If you're using it strictly for Opportunity Attacks, then it's not an issue. But if you're using it as your main attack, then it becomes a factor.
Currently a Level 7 Tempest Cleric Minotaur! Will get the tempest cleric to level 8 for divine strike (Extra 1d8 thunder damage on attack) and then will multiclass into Storm Sorcerer.
My background and RP reason will be due to a super cool moment in our campaign where I used Thunderwave (which the creature failed the save at to throw it 5f) along with thunderbolt/thunderous strike to throw it an additional 5ft (Thunderwave is thunder not lightning but DM allowed it) and then used my Destructive Drath to deal maximum damage as it was thrown into a portal that I created with a stone tablet to get the BBG to bugger off!
All this power surging through me triggered the magical awakening inside me, in the form of a storm sorcerer. I am still devoted to my Deity (Kord) and plan to remain devoted etc but with some inner magic unlocked now too
You could use the metamagic transmute to convert damage to lightning thereby triggering your Thunderbolt Strike. You can cast Wall of Fire (converted to Lightning) in a ring behind a creature. If it attacks you, it will trigger Wrath of the Storm, which will trigger Thunderbolt strike, which will knock it through the lightning wall, which will again trigger thunderbolt strike. When it attempts to move out of the ring, it will have to pass through the wall, which again triggers Thunderbolt strike.
Wall of Fire only deals damage the first time a creature enters its effect each turn, so no chaining Thunderbolt Strike like that.
It actually would. It would pass through the wall after attacking you on turn 1 and triggering TS. Then on turn 2 it moves back through the wall to get back to you, triggering TS again and knocking it back to where it started. I don't think the devs had considered a knockback effect that could basically pin a creature inside the ring. I believe this is the only combination that would cause this. I suppose the downside to this is that the wall is opaque, so you can't cast any spells on the creature that require sight, and your ranged attacks are at disadvantage because you can't see the target. So you are now basically relying only on the WoF/TS loop to kill it.
No the point is that on the creature's turn, it would take knockback but then could freely pass through the wall for the rest of its turn. The effect does not stop the target from being able to move and a single casting of WoF can't deal damage to a single creature more than once per turn regardless of its shape. At most you're getting two turns of this effect (your turn when you cast it, assuming the enemy fails its dex save, and the enemy's turn if it starts its turn still in the area of effect). Once the enemy activates, it can pass freely through the effect for the rest of its turn without taking damage again, or it can move in any other direction it would like to get out of the WoF, at which point it's home free. Very few enemies are dumb enough to simply march straight back into the area of deadly lightning with no regard for their own survival.
Also, there's the issue that this plan requires you to deliberately let yourself be smacked by an enemy in order to trigger Wrath of the Storm after casting a spell that requires concentration. If this character build started as a sorcerer and multiclassed to cleric it would have proficiency on Con saves but that's still a risk in your plan. Especially given that concentrating on Wall of Fire means that you can't concentrate on any defensive spells that would let you better tank that hit.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
No the point is that on the creature's turn, it would take knockback but then could freely pass through the wall for the rest of its turn. The effect does not stop the target from being able to move and a single casting of WoF can't deal damage to a single creature more than once per turn regardless of its shape. At most you're getting two turns of this effect (your turn when you cast it, assuming the enemy fails its dex save, and the enemy's turn if it starts its turn still in the area of effect). Once the enemy activates, it can pass freely through the effect for the rest of its turn without taking damage again, or it can move in any other direction it would like to get out of the WoF, at which point it's home free. Very few enemies are dumb enough to simply march straight back into the area of deadly lightning with no regard for their own survival.
Also, there's the issue that this plan requires you to deliberately let yourself be smacked by an enemy in order to trigger Wrath of the Storm after casting a spell that requires concentration. If this character build started as a sorcerer and multiclassed to cleric it would have proficiency on Con saves but that's still a risk in your plan. Especially given that concentrating on Wall of Fire means that you can't concentrate on any defensive spells that would let you better tank that hit.
I see your point. What if on your turn you cast WoF on the creature in a ring configuration with the creature in the edge of the ring. It takes damage regardless of save, which triggers TS. That knocks it into the middle of the ring. Now, on its turn it has no choice but to move out of the ring which would be its first time passing through the wall on that turn. That would again trigger TS and knock it back to the center. I guess if it has a dash or something that allows it to continue its movement then it can now pass harmlessly through the wall.
The issue of being deliberately hit shouldn't be an issue. In most cases, creatures can't one-shot you so the idea of letting one get a free shot isn't terrible. Especially when I'm a healer.
I understand this may not work as I hope it would or else more people would probably be doing it. It also requires a lvl 16 character with 8 cleric/8 Sorc (unless I'm missing something).
There is another source of damage for WoF and that's the area on one side of the wall. If the damage area is the outside of the ring, when the creature moves from the inside to the outside, it may end it's movement in the rings damage area. I believe this would also cause damage (full or half) and trigger TS. I suppose it is up to the DM which direction the creature is blown. If it is knocked back from the source of damage and not from the direction of its movement, then it may get knocked away from the ring rather than back into it.
This is clearly not a perfect sustainable source of damage like I am envisioning. I'm just wondering if it is viable.
I see the flaw. With a movement speed of 30 and only 10ft knockback from TS, the creature would still have enough movement to pass through the wall. I still think this has viability. IF: the creature starts its turn in the center of the ring. It moves 10 ft into the wall. TS knocks it back 10 ft. It still has 20 ft of movement so moves 10 feet past the wall. Movement is complete. It takes the rest of its turn and now ends its turn in the 10 ft damage zone beyond the wall. This would trigger TS and knock it back into the wall. So yes, every scenario limits this effect to triggering twice (which is still good). The creature is now on the perimeter of the ring. If I can do lighting damage to it on my turn (or any other player can knock it back 10 feet) then this scenario will trigger again.
You seem to be misunderstanding how Thunderbolt Strike works. It's 10 feet of knockback away from the caster. It will not knock the creature back into the center of the Wall of Fire if they're on the far side of the circle from the caster, they will instead continue to be pushed in a straight line. You're also ignoring that monsters and NPCs can use the Dash action, which would allow them to get entirely through the wall in one go even if they had no means of going around it.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I see. I interpreted TS different. If the max distance it can push a creature is 10 feet from you regardless of how many times it triggers, that kind of blows the whole thing out of the water. It also means that TS is only useful against creatures that you hit with lightning damage that are in melee range, which is a VERY limited scenario. Call Lightning has a range of 120 feet, but wouldn't trigger TS unless you cast it within 10 feet.
I have also seen similar posts using Glyph of Warding, where you prepare a line of glyphs. Lure the creature over the first glyph so that you are between it and the line of glyphs. Once it triggers the glyph it will take lightning damage, trigger TS which will push it away from you and over the next glyph which will create a chain reaction. If TS can only push the creature a maximum of 10 feet from the caster then this method will not work either.
No, Thunderbolt Strike does not have a ten foot range. Its range is limited only by the range of whatever spells, weapons, and abilities the Tempest Cleric has that deal lightning damage. That's not the issue. The issue is that it can only push the target in a straight line away from the caster's position, it is incapable of pushing them in any other direction. It will not push targets toward the center of a circular Wall of Fire except as a circumstantial side effect of that being the most direct line away from you. If its on the far side of a circular WoF's center, it will not be pushed back toward the center, it will be pushed away from the center.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I see. So if the creature is between me and the ring, then I can push it into the ring with lightning damage. If it decides for some reason to exit the ring in any direction other than toward me, the cycle would be broken.
Yup. Remember, monsters in D&D games aren't like enemies in an MMO where they're running off of simple scripts that lack the ability to recognize dangerous geo effects. Most monsters can and will avoid dangerous stuff.
Good way to deal with zombies, at least.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tempest Clerics deal max thunder and lightning damage with spells. Use transmuted spell metamagic combined with fireball for 36 thunder/lightning damage within a large AoE.
I love this 'thunderball' technique as it is both thematic and probably broken.
Tempest Clerics deal max thunder and lightning damage with spells. Use transmuted spell metamagic combined with fireball for 36 thunder/lightning damage within a large AoE.
I love this 'thunderball' technique as it is both thematic and probably broken.
It's not really broken as you can only do it a limited number of times; the maximum thunder damage is your channel divinity (Destructive Wrath), so you can only use it as many times as you have uses of channel divinity remaining.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Would it be possible to create this build, but starting with sorcerer? My current backstory make sense to start with sorc and later multiclass into cleric. Any ideas to still end with this kind of char?
In Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants, there are several feats that involved Lightning and Thunder damage. The one that stands out to me for this kind of build is Strike of the Giants. If you take the Storm Strike subpart of the feat you can add Lightning damage to your weapon attacks and give your target disadvantage on attacks, doing this a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest. This would work well with the Tempest Cleric's Thunderous Strike as well as stacking with Divine Strike. And since it's sort of like Divine Strike, it would allow you to dip out of cleric if you wanted to branch into another class more and not miss out on Divine Strike strats.
Since I didn't see anyone else bring it up...
Remember, that the first bullet point of PAM states, "When you take the Attack action..." If you use BB/GFB you're using the Cast a Spell action, so cannot also use the bonus attack. If you're using it strictly for Opportunity Attacks, then it's not an issue. But if you're using it as your main attack, then it becomes a factor.
This is awesome!
Currently a Level 7 Tempest Cleric Minotaur! Will get the tempest cleric to level 8 for divine strike (Extra 1d8 thunder damage on attack) and then will multiclass into Storm Sorcerer.
My background and RP reason will be due to a super cool moment in our campaign where I used Thunderwave (which the creature failed the save at to throw it 5f) along with thunderbolt/thunderous strike to throw it an additional 5ft (Thunderwave is thunder not lightning but DM allowed it) and then used my Destructive Drath to deal maximum damage as it was thrown into a portal that I created with a stone tablet to get the BBG to bugger off!
All this power surging through me triggered the magical awakening inside me, in the form of a storm sorcerer. I am still devoted to my Deity (Kord) and plan to remain devoted etc but with some inner magic unlocked now too
You could use the metamagic transmute to convert damage to lightning thereby triggering your Thunderbolt Strike. You can cast Wall of Fire (converted to Lightning) in a ring behind a creature. If it attacks you, it will trigger Wrath of the Storm, which will trigger Thunderbolt strike, which will knock it through the lightning wall, which will again trigger thunderbolt strike. When it attempts to move out of the ring, it will have to pass through the wall, which again triggers Thunderbolt strike.
Wall of Fire only deals damage the first time a creature enters its effect each turn, so no chaining Thunderbolt Strike like that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It actually would. It would pass through the wall after attacking you on turn 1 and triggering TS. Then on turn 2 it moves back through the wall to get back to you, triggering TS again and knocking it back to where it started. I don't think the devs had considered a knockback effect that could basically pin a creature inside the ring. I believe this is the only combination that would cause this. I suppose the downside to this is that the wall is opaque, so you can't cast any spells on the creature that require sight, and your ranged attacks are at disadvantage because you can't see the target. So you are now basically relying only on the WoF/TS loop to kill it.
No the point is that on the creature's turn, it would take knockback but then could freely pass through the wall for the rest of its turn. The effect does not stop the target from being able to move and a single casting of WoF can't deal damage to a single creature more than once per turn regardless of its shape. At most you're getting two turns of this effect (your turn when you cast it, assuming the enemy fails its dex save, and the enemy's turn if it starts its turn still in the area of effect). Once the enemy activates, it can pass freely through the effect for the rest of its turn without taking damage again, or it can move in any other direction it would like to get out of the WoF, at which point it's home free. Very few enemies are dumb enough to simply march straight back into the area of deadly lightning with no regard for their own survival.
Also, there's the issue that this plan requires you to deliberately let yourself be smacked by an enemy in order to trigger Wrath of the Storm after casting a spell that requires concentration. If this character build started as a sorcerer and multiclassed to cleric it would have proficiency on Con saves but that's still a risk in your plan. Especially given that concentrating on Wall of Fire means that you can't concentrate on any defensive spells that would let you better tank that hit.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I see your point. What if on your turn you cast WoF on the creature in a ring configuration with the creature in the edge of the ring. It takes damage regardless of save, which triggers TS. That knocks it into the middle of the ring. Now, on its turn it has no choice but to move out of the ring which would be its first time passing through the wall on that turn. That would again trigger TS and knock it back to the center. I guess if it has a dash or something that allows it to continue its movement then it can now pass harmlessly through the wall.
The issue of being deliberately hit shouldn't be an issue. In most cases, creatures can't one-shot you so the idea of letting one get a free shot isn't terrible. Especially when I'm a healer.
I understand this may not work as I hope it would or else more people would probably be doing it. It also requires a lvl 16 character with 8 cleric/8 Sorc (unless I'm missing something).
There is another source of damage for WoF and that's the area on one side of the wall. If the damage area is the outside of the ring, when the creature moves from the inside to the outside, it may end it's movement in the rings damage area. I believe this would also cause damage (full or half) and trigger TS. I suppose it is up to the DM which direction the creature is blown. If it is knocked back from the source of damage and not from the direction of its movement, then it may get knocked away from the ring rather than back into it.
This is clearly not a perfect sustainable source of damage like I am envisioning. I'm just wondering if it is viable.
I see the flaw. With a movement speed of 30 and only 10ft knockback from TS, the creature would still have enough movement to pass through the wall. I still think this has viability. IF: the creature starts its turn in the center of the ring. It moves 10 ft into the wall. TS knocks it back 10 ft. It still has 20 ft of movement so moves 10 feet past the wall. Movement is complete. It takes the rest of its turn and now ends its turn in the 10 ft damage zone beyond the wall. This would trigger TS and knock it back into the wall. So yes, every scenario limits this effect to triggering twice (which is still good). The creature is now on the perimeter of the ring. If I can do lighting damage to it on my turn (or any other player can knock it back 10 feet) then this scenario will trigger again.
You seem to be misunderstanding how Thunderbolt Strike works. It's 10 feet of knockback away from the caster. It will not knock the creature back into the center of the Wall of Fire if they're on the far side of the circle from the caster, they will instead continue to be pushed in a straight line. You're also ignoring that monsters and NPCs can use the Dash action, which would allow them to get entirely through the wall in one go even if they had no means of going around it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I see. I interpreted TS different. If the max distance it can push a creature is 10 feet from you regardless of how many times it triggers, that kind of blows the whole thing out of the water. It also means that TS is only useful against creatures that you hit with lightning damage that are in melee range, which is a VERY limited scenario. Call Lightning has a range of 120 feet, but wouldn't trigger TS unless you cast it within 10 feet.
I have also seen similar posts using Glyph of Warding, where you prepare a line of glyphs. Lure the creature over the first glyph so that you are between it and the line of glyphs. Once it triggers the glyph it will take lightning damage, trigger TS which will push it away from you and over the next glyph which will create a chain reaction. If TS can only push the creature a maximum of 10 feet from the caster then this method will not work either.
No, Thunderbolt Strike does not have a ten foot range. Its range is limited only by the range of whatever spells, weapons, and abilities the Tempest Cleric has that deal lightning damage. That's not the issue. The issue is that it can only push the target in a straight line away from the caster's position, it is incapable of pushing them in any other direction. It will not push targets toward the center of a circular Wall of Fire except as a circumstantial side effect of that being the most direct line away from you. If its on the far side of a circular WoF's center, it will not be pushed back toward the center, it will be pushed away from the center.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I see. So if the creature is between me and the ring, then I can push it into the ring with lightning damage. If it decides for some reason to exit the ring in any direction other than toward me, the cycle would be broken.
Yup. Remember, monsters in D&D games aren't like enemies in an MMO where they're running off of simple scripts that lack the ability to recognize dangerous geo effects. Most monsters can and will avoid dangerous stuff.
Good way to deal with zombies, at least.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tempest Clerics deal max thunder and lightning damage with spells. Use transmuted spell metamagic combined with fireball for 36 thunder/lightning damage within a large AoE.
I love this 'thunderball' technique as it is both thematic and probably broken.
It's not really broken as you can only do it a limited number of times; the maximum thunder damage is your channel divinity (Destructive Wrath), so you can only use it as many times as you have uses of channel divinity remaining.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Hi.
Would it be possible to create this build, but starting with sorcerer? My current backstory make sense to start with sorc and later multiclass into cleric. Any ideas to still end with this kind of char?
In Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants, there are several feats that involved Lightning and Thunder damage. The one that stands out to me for this kind of build is Strike of the Giants. If you take the Storm Strike subpart of the feat you can add Lightning damage to your weapon attacks and give your target disadvantage on attacks, doing this a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.
This would work well with the Tempest Cleric's Thunderous Strike as well as stacking with Divine Strike. And since it's sort of like Divine Strike, it would allow you to dip out of cleric if you wanted to branch into another class more and not miss out on Divine Strike strats.
Could also combine PAM with the Crusher feat, so then the BA attack that does bludgeoning damage can be used to reposition an enemy also.
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