A standard quarterstaff qualifies as a druid focus (unlike an arcane focus) provided it's made of wood. No DM ruling is necessary.
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A standard quarterstaff qualifies as a druid focus (unlike an arcane focus) provided it's made of wood. No DM ruling is necessary.
Reference? Considering the fact that the Wooden Staff is 5 gp and the quarterstaff is 2 sp, that seems a little off in general, though I've already remarked that it's a moot point for Shillelagh since a wooden club is basically just a stick.
Edit: Also bear in mind that I'm not trying to say that the Arcana Cleric should go melee, just that it's not as far fetched as other class/subclass combos. There are of course options for bypassing the no heavy armor, no martial weapons aspects of a Arcana Cleric that would negate those drawbacks, including a Hill Dwarf or Wood Elf for racial options, a multiclass with fighter or monk. But that leads back to the question of is the investment worth the outcome?
Second Edit: I was thinking Hill Dwarf for their ability to overcome the speed deficit that not having the strength requirement for heavy armor imposes, but it won't allow the character to overcome the inability to cast spells in non-proficient armor.
I suppose technically, a quarterstaff does not specifically say it's made out of wood so...
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I suppose technically, a quarterstaff does not specifically say it's made out of wood so...
Which is easy enough for a druid to designate at character creation, just like they can say that they're acquiring a wooden shield if they want a shield. Thematically, it's not out of the realm of possibility, it's just that the rules aren't very fleshed out in that aspect.
I think that's part of the reason that many DMs gloss over these aspects of spellcasting, but anyone that wanted to run the campaign that way would certainly like to have as many references like that to help them flesh it out a bit better. While DM fiat is rule 0, I usually like to have some rules basis to support the position as opposed to just throwing out the "because I said so" answer for everything.
I won't lie, my group mostly ignores components. We feel that those things don't really add much to do the game...so we don't bother to track them. I can't tell people that things work at say, and ADL table the same way they do at my table since we handwave a lot of stuff that we find of no value to having fun. At my table, shillelagh on a club is no problem. The bonus action to cast is penalty enough, given clerics in particular have a lot of use for their bonus actions.
Unfortunately, that's not what the rules say, kind of like how you can't do a somatic gesture with an implement in hand...if the spell does not have a material component. That ruling makes my eyes roll back in my head.
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This^^^ I’ve got this build and love it. If you’re not doing a Variant Human Build for shellelagh I wouldn’t take booming blade or gfb. If you are going that route take either gfb or bb and another ranged attack cantrip or prestidigitation.
for 6th lvl wizard spell I would consider taking anything that doesn’t require concentration: Disintegrate, Contingency or Mass Suggestion being my top choices
7th lvl it depends on your game, Teleport could help a lot if there’s not a lot of teleportation circles in your game. Magnificent Mansion if no one else can or your DM does a lot of night time encounters or environmental damage to your group. If neither apply I would go Simulacrum
8th lvl clone especially if your DM is trying to kill you or control weather
9th lvl talk to your DM about wish. If you don’t like how they’ll execute it go True Polymorph
The variant human build for shillelagh, by RAW, doesn't work. The spell has a material component cost that a starting cleric doesn't have. And even if they somehow did, they're not carrying a shield. Clerics with the Nature Domain have the same problem, as it's not a cleric spell for them. You always need to be careful with DMs and how they rule at the table.
Clerics with the Arcana Domain are, IMO, better off as flex casters who sit in the middle range and stick to ranged cantrips. Preferably, cantrips that have an attack roll as it's a good idea to diversify attacks. As for the higher-level spells...
There's really no bad choice. No matter what you pick it's pretty much gravy.
I'd disagree on the cleric (or anyone) not being able to wield a shield while casting Shillelagh. The reason why? The quarterstaff or club is a component of the spell. As long as they are only carrying that weapon and the shield, they'll be able to cast because of the quirks of the system.
This is not correct. The quarterstaff or club is /a/ component of the spell, not THE component of the spell. You also need mistletoe and a shamrock leaf. The spell ANDs them together, not OR, so each component is necessary. You need an open hand to handle those components. Druid get around this because their staff can be their implement and bypass the mistletoe and shamrock leaf. A cleric cannot use druid implements, so they have to use the components themselves.
* - (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff)
Right, but they don't say what order the components need to be procured. The club or quarterstaff is a component of the spell. If they don't have anything else in that hand, then it's empty aside from components of the spell. Anything otherwise requires two empty hands and would invalidate anything with more than two components. There is nothing in the rules that distinguishes between the size of components at all. The DM would likely have to rule in favor of the Druid's Druidic Focus staff being a quarterstaff just as much as they'd have to rule in favor of anything else. It's not explicitly ruled a quarterstaff, barring the ruling that most magical staves can be used as a quarterstaff, but I seem to remember a thread about that where there wasn't a full consensus on the druid staff. The fact that it can be a club and a club is basically just a stick certainly lends more credence to that argument.
Further, their is no cost associated with the components nor are they consumed by the spell. You can reason that a club or quarterstaff has the cost of the weapon, and if you consider the mistletoe to be the same as the sprig of mistletoe then there would be a 1 gold cost to that, but it's hardly anything that is written out anywhere or that the mistletoe has to be the sprig of mistletoe. If a character using a component pouch can procure the components without a cost associated to them, I don't see why the character without a component pouch can't do the same for 1 spell that doesn't consume the components.
Again, DM ruling will affect this, but nothing in the rules suggests that any DM has to rule either way.
The order the components are procured is irrelevant. The cleric cannot use a druidic focus, and so must use the hand performing the somatic components to also manipulate the material components. But the cleric cannot wield all the material components in one hand, unlike a druid with their druidic focus (the obvious choice being the wooden staff). The cleric is forced to wield the club or quarterstaff in one hand and the other material spellcasting components in their other hand. This means, by RAW, they cannot wield a shield and cast shillelagh at the same time.
Even if you want to argue the cleric doesn't need a component pouch, which I disagree with because some of their spells do require consumed material components, it doesn't matter. The action economy is against them.
This^^^ I’ve got this build and love it. If you’re not doing a Variant Human Build for shellelagh I wouldn’t take booming blade or gfb. If you are going that route take either gfb or bb and another ranged attack cantrip or prestidigitation.
for 6th lvl wizard spell I would consider taking anything that doesn’t require concentration: Disintegrate, Contingency or Mass Suggestion being my top choices
7th lvl it depends on your game, Teleport could help a lot if there’s not a lot of teleportation circles in your game. Magnificent Mansion if no one else can or your DM does a lot of night time encounters or environmental damage to your group. If neither apply I would go Simulacrum
8th lvl clone especially if your DM is trying to kill you or control weather
9th lvl talk to your DM about wish. If you don’t like how they’ll execute it go True Polymorph
The variant human build for shillelagh, by RAW, doesn't work. The spell has a material component cost that a starting cleric doesn't have. And even if they somehow did, they're not carrying a shield. Clerics with the Nature Domain have the same problem, as it's not a cleric spell for them. You always need to be careful with DMs and how they rule at the table.
Clerics with the Arcana Domain are, IMO, better off as flex casters who sit in the middle range and stick to ranged cantrips. Preferably, cantrips that have an attack roll as it's a good idea to diversify attacks. As for the higher-level spells...
There's really no bad choice. No matter what you pick it's pretty much gravy.
I'd disagree on the cleric (or anyone) not being able to wield a shield while casting Shillelagh. The reason why? The quarterstaff or club is a component of the spell. As long as they are only carrying that weapon and the shield, they'll be able to cast because of the quirks of the system.
This is not correct. The quarterstaff or club is /a/ component of the spell, not THE component of the spell. You also need mistletoe and a shamrock leaf. The spell ANDs them together, not OR, so each component is necessary. You need an open hand to handle those components. Druid get around this because their staff can be their implement and bypass the mistletoe and shamrock leaf. A cleric cannot use druid implements, so they have to use the components themselves.
* - (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff)
Right, but they don't say what order the components need to be procured. The club or quarterstaff is a component of the spell. If they don't have anything else in that hand, then it's empty aside from components of the spell. Anything otherwise requires two empty hands and would invalidate anything with more than two components. There is nothing in the rules that distinguishes between the size of components at all. The DM would likely have to rule in favor of the Druid's Druidic Focus staff being a quarterstaff just as much as they'd have to rule in favor of anything else. It's not explicitly ruled a quarterstaff, barring the ruling that most magical staves can be used as a quarterstaff, but I seem to remember a thread about that where there wasn't a full consensus on the druid staff. The fact that it can be a club and a club is basically just a stick certainly lends more credence to that argument.
Further, their is no cost associated with the components nor are they consumed by the spell. You can reason that a club or quarterstaff has the cost of the weapon, and if you consider the mistletoe to be the same as the sprig of mistletoe then there would be a 1 gold cost to that, but it's hardly anything that is written out anywhere or that the mistletoe has to be the sprig of mistletoe. If a character using a component pouch can procure the components without a cost associated to them, I don't see why the character without a component pouch can't do the same for 1 spell that doesn't consume the components.
Again, DM ruling will affect this, but nothing in the rules suggests that any DM has to rule either way.
The order the components are procured is irrelevant. The cleric cannot use a druidic focus, and so must use the hand performing the somatic components to also manipulate the material components. But the cleric cannot wield all the material components in one hand, unlike a druid with their druidic focus (the obvious choice being the wooden staff). The cleric is forced to wield the club or quarterstaff in one hand and the other material spellcasting components in their other hand. This means, by RAW, they cannot wield a shield and cast [Tooltip Not Found] at the same time.
Even if you want to argue the cleric doesn't need a component pouch, which I disagree with because some of their spells do require consumed material components, it doesn't matter. The action economy is against them.
First, I never said anything about casting any other druid spell. If the Cleric is going to try to cast any other spell with material or somatic components, then they'll have to make concessions accordingly. If the spells require consumed material components, as long as their isn't a component cost associated with them then we can assume that they are free to acquire, barring DM fiat.
The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8. The weapon also becomes magical, if it isn't already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon.
* - (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff)
edit:for some reason, the copied version of this was showing up as a blank space.
As you can see, nothing in the spell requires that the spell be cast by someone holding a Druidic focus or carrying a component pouch. You will also note that the club or the quarterstaff is a material component along with some misteltoe, and a shamrock leaf and that none of the components are consumed by the spell. I've already addressed that you can consider mistletoe to have a component cost if you consider the druidic focus "Sprig of Mistletoe" to be exactly the same as Mistletoe. You will also note that you have to be holding the club or quarterstaff to cast Shillelagh on it. Further, I'd question the DM that has decided that Shillelagh is so powerful that they force the character in question to obtain a component pouch or the components of the spell multiple times because of not getting the pouch. It's simply not that powerful. Many people would rather not have the cantrip because they'd rather have one that has scaling damage or has more utility. The ability is certainly a nice one, as witnessed by the proliferation of hexblade builds, but that is always on, doesn't require a cantrip slot, and deals with Charisma which has the highest number of classes that use it as a spellcasting ability.
Next:
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
You will notice that a character can use a component pouch or spellcasting focus, but does not have to do so. They can use the material components that are specified. If you are saying that a character has to spend 25 gp on a component pouch to be able to cast material component spells (assuming that they can't use a focus because it's not given as part of the spellcasting class as an option, see Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster), then you are saying that there is a 25 gp tax to be able to cast those spells. Ranger has 29 spells with material components, assuming that I counted correctly and remember the number that I counted during the last 4 or 5 hours. If your saying that they can only obtain the components that don't have a material cost associated with them for free if they have the component pouch, I'd ask for a reference for support. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform the somatic components. There is no order suggested for accessing the spell's material components and the club or quarterstaff is a material component. Having the weapon in hand is simply accessing the first component.
I will reiterate that if you are saying that it makes no sense for the hand that is holding the quarterstaff or club to be able to access the other components (which it doesn't), there is nothing in the rules stating that you have to have a free hand to acquire every component. If the DM rules that this must be the case, then any spell with more than one components would require two hands free to begin casting; one hand to access the components and another hand to put the components in after they have been accessed, much as you are suggesting with the requirement for the weapon to be in a different hand. Keep this in mind for Animate Dead, Darkvision, and Fireball, among others, for any wizard trying to cast using a component pouch and wielding a dagger or whatever weapon they have. However, the rules don't state that as a requirement, just that there be a hand free to access the material components, which would be the same hand that is holding the club or quarterstaff because it is a component of the spell and it must be held even by a druid that is casting the spell. If their spellcasting focus is a wooden staff, then there is no problem whatsoever, since it can be the spellcasting focus and the club or "quarterstaff" at the same time. If they have chosen the [Tooltip Not Found], or the yew wand instead, then they'll still have to provide a club or quarterstaff because it must be held as a requirement of the spell. The fact that the spell also has somatic components is irrelevant due to the fact that the same hand that holds the material components can perform the somatic components. There are no rules in place for any ordering to the components at all, anything in that realm would be DM purview, and I've already acknowledged that can change everything. But strictly by the rules, it's possible.
If this doesn't convince you that it's possible, I'm not sure what to tell you. Note that I'm not saying that the cleric can use their spellcasting focus to cast the spell. I guess in that case, maybe something like the Ruby of the War Mage would help, but I'm doubting that would be available in a campaign that would be making a character jump through this many hoops to cast Shillelagh.
Edit:Even if you were to say that the weapon couldn't be in hand to start casting Shillelagh, either a free interaction associated with movement or an action to stow your weapon would still leave you with your bonus action to cast the spell. Since the weapon is a component of the spell, drawing it out would be part of casting the spell. Action economy has no bearing on the spell at all, since you could free interaction stow the weapon, action stow your shield, and bonus action cast the spell if your DM was being as harsh as absolutely possible. You wouldn't be able to do anything else, but you could still cast the spell. Hopefully, that's a discussion you will have had with your DM during session zero.
A final off topic note, a Pact of the Tome Warlock that didn't want to be hexblade could take this Shillelagh as one of their Pact of the Tome cantrips and would be able to use Charisma instead of Wisdom. The spell references spellcasting ability, not Wisdom. It's default is wisdom due to the spell only being on the Druid spell list. For that matter, a bard could use a magical secrets on it and achieve the same affect.
I'm not going to argue with someone over the necessity of a component pouch for spells with material components. Following this train of thought, nobody needs a pouch at all. And anyone who can use a spellcasting focus doesn't need either.
I'm not going to argue with someone over the necessity of a component pouch for spells with material components. Following this train of thought, nobody needs a pouch at all. And anyone who can use a spellcasting focus doesn't need either.
If you have at most 3 spells from magic initiate druid that use material components, why are you going to get a component pouch when you have a focus for your other spells. If you need material components for your other two druid spells, then sure grabbing a component pouch for that other cantrip and or first level once per long rest spell may be a good idea, especially if the components are consumed. How many of those exist that don't overlap with the Cleric spell list? 1- Snare which is actually the only spell thus far that consumes its components. Is the DM going to let a component pouch provide the rope for Snare? If yes, then it probably makes sense to buy the component pouch for your druid spells, if not, why do it if it doesn't fit the image you have for your character, unless the DM puts that tax on their players. Obtaining components that have no cost, can be found in nature, and that aren't consumed can easily be done while traveling, and a human variant that chooses magic initiate druid could easily pick up those components before meeting the party with no significant cost associated with it. I've already provided the rules that say that the component pouch and the focus aren't necessary as well as three spell casters that don't have a way to acquire a focus at all nor a component pouch with starting gear.
If a DM is going to place that tax on their players for all things that aren't covered by the classes that provide those options, then that should be something that is brought up in session zero so that any player thinking about those options is informed and can plan accordingly. Meanwhile, generally speaking I've shown that for the OP's consideration and without knowing whether components will be a big deal or not for whatever reason, they can cast shillelagh by a valid interpretation of the rules. Whether their DM agrees is beyond the scope of the discussion.
As my goal of showing that it can be done in accordance with the rules, provided the quotation of those rules, and acknowledged that DM fiat can override that interpretation, I have no more reason to continue on this track unless someone wants the actual page reference for the quotations. I have no interest in trying to convince everyone that my interpretation of the rules as referenced above is the correct one, just in helping the OP have a better chance of playing the character that they want to play.
There are 5 cantrips and 10 1st-level spells found on the druid spell list and not the cleric spell list. And for the purposes of this discussion, the Arcana Domain does not grant any of these 15 spells. Of those 15 spells, 2 cantrips (shillelagh and thorn whip) and 4 1st-level spells (animal friendship, goodberry, jump, and longstrider) require material components. Of these 6 spells, only goodberry has a material component cost which can be purchased outright (a sprig of mistletoe, a druidic focus). For everything else, you're darn right I would demand a component pouch. And if you're getting one, you may as well get your money's worth with multiple spells that require components.
And since we're discussing component pouches, that brings up two points to mind. First, manipulating the components in the pouch cannot be done with a hand already holding an implement. The impliment may also be a spellcasting component, but it can't also manipulate the remaining components. This is why I say casting shillelagh means the cleric cannot carry a shield. Second, the pouch can also double in providing material components for cleric spells should the holy symbol not be immediately available. It doesn't have to be used only by arcane spellcasters. Magic is magic. And an Arcana Cleric carrying a component pouch, typically only found on arcane spellcasters, is not bad from a roleplaying perspective.
Feats are an optional rule that can make your character more powerful than normal. And don't forget that the 1st-level spell acquired via Magic Initiate can still be cast with your normal spell slots. This means spells like animal friendship and longstrider can be upcast to affect more targets. I don't consider it a punishment or a tax to tell a player that, by choosing an option designed to make them more powerful, they also have to spend a little coin here and there. At 1st-level, for a variant human, it can be prohibitively expensive. There are backgrounds which can give you the coin to buy one, and if that's what the player wants I'll work with them to get it. Or they can wait until 4th level when they're more likely to afford it.
Some DMs may eschew material components, or spellcasting components altogether. I think this is a mistake as components are not only flavorful but a balancing mechanic. And I don't think it's helpful to tell the player to assume the DM will be more liberal. We should err on the side of caution with conservative advice.
A spell taken with Magic Initiate can be cast with your spell slots if you take Magic Initiate that matches your class, or a class you've dipped into, for example Magic Initiate: Cleric if you're playing a Cleric, or Magic Initiate: Druid if you've taken a level in Druid.
Component pouches are handy when multi-classing casters because you don't need a specific spell focus (which is why they're also the most expensive spell-casting accessory).
Do remember the somatic components of spells. I had to rebuild one of my characters when I realized I'd been cheating by casting the Shield spell while holding a shield, something that's not possible without the War Caster feat, which I added.
The rules do say you can perform the somatic components of spells with the hand holding the materials, and in the case of Shillelagh one of the materials is the staff/club you're casting the spell on so I suppose it could be argued the actions could still be carried out with a shield.
Interestingly, if you take the Sailor background (or through background customization take the equipment from the Sailor background) it comes with a free club, and I'm fairly sure that it's the only background that provides you with a weapon (however poor).
There are 5 cantrips and 10 1st-level spells found on the druid spell list and not the cleric spell list. And for the purposes of this discussion, the Arcana Domain does not grant any of these 15 spells. Of those 15 spells, 2 cantrips (shillelagh and thorn whip) and 4 1st-level spells (animal friendship, goodberry, jump, and longstrider) require material components. Of these 6 spells, only goodberry has a material component cost which can be purchased outright (a sprig of mistletoe, a druidic focus). For everything else, you're darn right I would demand a component pouch. And if you're getting one, you may as well get your money's worth with multiple spells that require components.
And since we're discussing component pouches, that brings up two points to mind. First, manipulating the components in the pouch cannot be done with a hand already holding an implement. The impliment may also be a spellcasting component, but it can't also manipulate the remaining components. This is why I say casting shillelagh means the cleric cannot carry a shield. Second, the pouch can also double in providing material components for cleric spells should the holy symbol not be immediately available. It doesn't have to be used only by arcane spellcasters. Magic is magic. And an Arcana Cleric carrying a component pouch, typically only found on arcane spellcasters, is not bad from a roleplaying perspective.
Feats are an optional rule that can make your character more powerful than normal. And don't forget that the 1st-level spell acquired via Magic Initiate can still be cast with your normal spell slots. This means spells like animal friendship and longstrider can be upcast to affect more targets. I don't consider it a punishment or a tax to tell a player that, by choosing an option designed to make them more powerful, they also have to spend a little coin here and there. At 1st-level, for a variant human, it can be prohibitively expensive. There are backgrounds which can give you the coin to buy one, and if that's what the player wants I'll work with them to get it. Or they can wait until 4th level when they're more likely to afford it.
Some DMs may eschew material components, or spellcasting components altogether. I think this is a mistake as components are not only flavorful but a balancing mechanic. And I don't think it's helpful to tell the player to assume the DM will be more liberal. We should err on the side of caution with conservative advice.
The majority of my responses have been conservative responses. The mention that many campaigns overlook components and then talking about the components as if they are play isn't exactly liberal. It's acknowledging a common playstyle and then exploring options if your group doesn't play that way. As is the advice to broach the topic with your DM to find out exactly what you are dealing with.
A reading that suggests that a character must have a component pouch to cast Jump or Longstrider when nothing in the spell says that you need anything other than a grasshopper's hind leg or a pinch of dirt, that's pretty extreme especially if the character is in an area where that's readily available or has been during the time they've acquired the spell. Nothing in the rules says that you have to use a component pouch or a spell casting focus. There is a line that says that you can use either for the material components. Forcing it is a home rule as much as eschewing components altogether is.
The when I'm talking about a tax for forcing players to use component pouches, I'm not talking exclusively about feats or multiclassing though they are pertinent to the discussion since the player is considering it. The tax comes for Rangers, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters that don't have an option for a focus at all, barring a ruling from the DM that allows [magicitem]Ruby of the War Mage[/spell] with its accompanying attunement tax (that's likely irrelevant while the cost of a component pouch is relevant), though it could be more expensive since it would either cost (1d6+1)*10 gp (plus 100 gp if it is ruled that it has to be located) or come at the cost of something more powerful or more useful. That's per XGTE. Those classes are the only spellcasting classes that don't get either a focus or a component pouch as part of their starting equipment (not an issue if the campaign forces everyone to start with gold instead, everyone is on equal footing.
I'll grant you that your reading of using the free hand being able to access components could apply to each component, but it's no more valid than the reading that says as long as you grab the first one with a free hand then you're good. The rules aren't explicit enough in either regard to be definitive. However, unless you are taxing their action economy by forcing the handling of components to not be included in Casting a Spell as you've said that you would (Soul Cage only works on your turn then, along with Feather Fall and Gift of Gab), then even starting with the other components before grasping the weapon for Shillelagh wouldn't be an issue unless you are saying that all material components must be out prior to casting (which would make sense if you are saying that Casting a Spell doesn't cover materials but isn't particularly supported by the rules). Shillelagh in particular would need wording that unless the druid used a spell casting focus as the item to be transformed (or that they were at least holding the weapon at the start of the turn) that they'd have to wait until the next turn to attack. Imagine a turn where you have to draw a weapon (free interaction), handle your component pouch (action), cast shillelagh (bonus action). As for the second point, the option to purchase the component pouch is available regardless of any other choice that the cleric makes. Counting that as a bonus to a tax only let's the tax sting less for the player that would have done it anyway.
As for the spells, sure there are plenty of cantrips and first level spells with material components that aren't on both lists, only Snare has a component that is consumed, which was the point that I was making. The others could have the components acquired once (usually in nature), and then kept for every casting.
However, if I was to council a player who was playing in your campaign, I'd suggest that they find out if multiclassing druid would be possible. They'd be able to have their choice of first level spells to cast as many times as possible with spell slots every long rest. They'd get the same number of cantrips. They'd get the ritual casting for any non cleric 1st level druid spell Speak with Animals and druidic (neither are likely to give extensive utility in the average campaign). Instead of being at the cost of a feat/ASI, it would be at the cost of Cleric Progression and the distinct possibility that the one level would cost them metallic armor (at which point I'd recommend saving the character for a much less restrictive DM as their concept would be difficult to explore in that setting).
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I would tax anyone's action economy. You need a free hand to manipulate material components. If you can't honestly engage with me, then you're getting blocked.
A spell taken with Magic Initiate can be cast with your spell slots if you take Magic Initiate that matches your class, or a class you've dipped into, for example Magic Initiate: Cleric if you're playing a Cleric, or Magic Initiate: Druid if you've taken a level in Druid.
Component pouches are handy when multi-classing casters because you don't need a specific spell focus (which is why they're also the most expensive spell-casting accessory).
Do remember the somatic components of spells. I had to rebuild one of my characters when I realized I'd been cheating by casting the Shield spell while holding a shield, something that's not possible without the War Caster feat, which I added.
The rules do say you can perform the somatic components of spells with the hand holding the materials, and in the case of Shillelagh one of the materials is the staff/club you're casting the spell on so I suppose it could be argued the actions could still be carried out with a shield.
Interestingly, if you take the Sailor background (or through background customization take the equipment from the Sailor background) it comes with a free club, and I'm fairly sure that it's the only background that provides you with a weapon (however poor).
Magic is magic. Once you know the spell, you can cast it with any spell slot available to you. You don't need to have levels in the class the spell came from to use spell slots to cast it.
A spell taken with Magic Initiate can be cast with your spell slots if you take Magic Initiate that matches your class, or a class you've dipped into, for example Magic Initiate: Cleric if you're playing a Cleric, or Magic Initiate: Druid if you've taken a level in Druid.
Component pouches are handy when multi-classing casters because you don't need a specific spell focus (which is why they're also the most expensive spell-casting accessory).
Magic is magic. Once you know the spell, you can cast it with any spell slot available to you. You don't need to have levels in the class the spell came from to use spell slots to cast it.
The SAC says otherwise. Barring the SAC, there isn't anything that rules that you can to my knowledge. Reference?
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Even if you want to argue the cleric doesn't need a component pouch, which I disagree with because some of their spells do require consumed material components, it doesn't matter. The action economy is against them.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I would tax anyone's action economy. You need a free hand to manipulate material components. If you can't honestly engage with me, then you're getting blocked.
I was inferring that the "action economy being against them" to mean that the character would have to use their free interaction and/or action to manipulate components when nothing in the spell casting rules mentions such to be a tax on their action economy. Since you can only use those options on your turn, reaction spells like Feather Fall and Soul Cage can only be cast on your turn if that is the way that you could cast them. I don't think that is how it's intended to be played nor do I read the rules to say as much.
How could the action economy be against them if they can handle components with the Casting a Spell action? Even if you force the character to stow the weapon with their free interaction, they would still be able to handle the other components before pulling the weapon back out as a material component. That still allows you to cast Shillelagh and make an attack with it while wielding a shield, at least without specific instructions on how the components have to be handled and what the somatic components look like and what the timing of any of these has to be.
If you feel like that's a dishonest position to take, fine block me. I'll happily reciprocate, particularly if you aren't willing to show where in 5e it says that we must use the action or free interaction to deal with the components of a spell that are required to be completed to cast the spell.
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A standard quarterstaff qualifies as a druid focus (unlike an arcane focus) provided it's made of wood. No DM ruling is necessary.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Reference? Considering the fact that the Wooden Staff is 5 gp and the quarterstaff is 2 sp, that seems a little off in general, though I've already remarked that it's a moot point for Shillelagh since a wooden club is basically just a stick.
Edit: Also bear in mind that I'm not trying to say that the Arcana Cleric should go melee, just that it's not as far fetched as other class/subclass combos. There are of course options for bypassing the no heavy armor, no martial weapons aspects of a Arcana Cleric that would negate those drawbacks, including a Hill Dwarf or Wood Elf for racial options, a multiclass with fighter or monk. But that leads back to the question of is the investment worth the outcome?
Second Edit: I was thinking Hill Dwarf for their ability to overcome the speed deficit that not having the strength requirement for heavy armor imposes, but it won't allow the character to overcome the inability to cast spells in non-proficient armor.
I suppose technically, a quarterstaff does not specifically say it's made out of wood so...
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Which is easy enough for a druid to designate at character creation, just like they can say that they're acquiring a wooden shield if they want a shield. Thematically, it's not out of the realm of possibility, it's just that the rules aren't very fleshed out in that aspect.
I think that's part of the reason that many DMs gloss over these aspects of spellcasting, but anyone that wanted to run the campaign that way would certainly like to have as many references like that to help them flesh it out a bit better. While DM fiat is rule 0, I usually like to have some rules basis to support the position as opposed to just throwing out the "because I said so" answer for everything.
I won't lie, my group mostly ignores components. We feel that those things don't really add much to do the game...so we don't bother to track them. I can't tell people that things work at say, and ADL table the same way they do at my table since we handwave a lot of stuff that we find of no value to having fun. At my table, shillelagh on a club is no problem. The bonus action to cast is penalty enough, given clerics in particular have a lot of use for their bonus actions.
Unfortunately, that's not what the rules say, kind of like how you can't do a somatic gesture with an implement in hand...if the spell does not have a material component. That ruling makes my eyes roll back in my head.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The order the components are procured is irrelevant. The cleric cannot use a druidic focus, and so must use the hand performing the somatic components to also manipulate the material components. But the cleric cannot wield all the material components in one hand, unlike a druid with their druidic focus (the obvious choice being the wooden staff). The cleric is forced to wield the club or quarterstaff in one hand and the other material spellcasting components in their other hand. This means, by RAW, they cannot wield a shield and cast shillelagh at the same time.
Even if you want to argue the cleric doesn't need a component pouch, which I disagree with because some of their spells do require consumed material components, it doesn't matter. The action economy is against them.
First, I never said anything about casting any other druid spell. If the Cleric is going to try to cast any other spell with material or somatic components, then they'll have to make concessions accordingly. If the spells require consumed material components, as long as their isn't a component cost associated with them then we can assume that they are free to acquire, barring DM fiat.
Second:
As you can see, nothing in the spell requires that the spell be cast by someone holding a Druidic focus or carrying a component pouch. You will also note that the club or the quarterstaff is a material component along with some misteltoe, and a shamrock leaf and that none of the components are consumed by the spell. I've already addressed that you can consider mistletoe to have a component cost if you consider the druidic focus "Sprig of Mistletoe" to be exactly the same as Mistletoe. You will also note that you have to be holding the club or quarterstaff to cast Shillelagh on it. Further, I'd question the DM that has decided that Shillelagh is so powerful that they force the character in question to obtain a component pouch or the components of the spell multiple times because of not getting the pouch. It's simply not that powerful. Many people would rather not have the cantrip because they'd rather have one that has scaling damage or has more utility. The ability is certainly a nice one, as witnessed by the proliferation of hexblade builds, but that is always on, doesn't require a cantrip slot, and deals with Charisma which has the highest number of classes that use it as a spellcasting ability.
Next:
You will notice that a character can use a component pouch or spellcasting focus, but does not have to do so. They can use the material components that are specified. If you are saying that a character has to spend 25 gp on a component pouch to be able to cast material component spells (assuming that they can't use a focus because it's not given as part of the spellcasting class as an option, see Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster), then you are saying that there is a 25 gp tax to be able to cast those spells. Ranger has 29 spells with material components, assuming that I counted correctly and remember the number that I counted during the last 4 or 5 hours. If your saying that they can only obtain the components that don't have a material cost associated with them for free if they have the component pouch, I'd ask for a reference for support. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform the somatic components. There is no order suggested for accessing the spell's material components and the club or quarterstaff is a material component. Having the weapon in hand is simply accessing the first component.
I will reiterate that if you are saying that it makes no sense for the hand that is holding the quarterstaff or club to be able to access the other components (which it doesn't), there is nothing in the rules stating that you have to have a free hand to acquire every component. If the DM rules that this must be the case, then any spell with more than one components would require two hands free to begin casting; one hand to access the components and another hand to put the components in after they have been accessed, much as you are suggesting with the requirement for the weapon to be in a different hand. Keep this in mind for Animate Dead, Darkvision, and Fireball, among others, for any wizard trying to cast using a component pouch and wielding a dagger or whatever weapon they have. However, the rules don't state that as a requirement, just that there be a hand free to access the material components, which would be the same hand that is holding the club or quarterstaff because it is a component of the spell and it must be held even by a druid that is casting the spell. If their spellcasting focus is a wooden staff, then there is no problem whatsoever, since it can be the spellcasting focus and the club or "quarterstaff" at the same time. If they have chosen the [Tooltip Not Found], or the yew wand instead, then they'll still have to provide a club or quarterstaff because it must be held as a requirement of the spell. The fact that the spell also has somatic components is irrelevant due to the fact that the same hand that holds the material components can perform the somatic components. There are no rules in place for any ordering to the components at all, anything in that realm would be DM purview, and I've already acknowledged that can change everything. But strictly by the rules, it's possible.
If this doesn't convince you that it's possible, I'm not sure what to tell you. Note that I'm not saying that the cleric can use their spellcasting focus to cast the spell. I guess in that case, maybe something like the Ruby of the War Mage would help, but I'm doubting that would be available in a campaign that would be making a character jump through this many hoops to cast Shillelagh.
Edit:Even if you were to say that the weapon couldn't be in hand to start casting Shillelagh, either a free interaction associated with movement or an action to stow your weapon would still leave you with your bonus action to cast the spell. Since the weapon is a component of the spell, drawing it out would be part of casting the spell. Action economy has no bearing on the spell at all, since you could free interaction stow the weapon, action stow your shield, and bonus action cast the spell if your DM was being as harsh as absolutely possible. You wouldn't be able to do anything else, but you could still cast the spell. Hopefully, that's a discussion you will have had with your DM during session zero.
A final off topic note, a Pact of the Tome Warlock that didn't want to be hexblade could take this Shillelagh as one of their Pact of the Tome cantrips and would be able to use Charisma instead of Wisdom. The spell references spellcasting ability, not Wisdom. It's default is wisdom due to the spell only being on the Druid spell list. For that matter, a bard could use a magical secrets on it and achieve the same affect.
Well yes, if you have some mistletoe and a shamrock you can cast the spell. Just like you can cast Sleep if you grab some dust from the floor.
I'm not going to argue with someone over the necessity of a component pouch for spells with material components. Following this train of thought, nobody needs a pouch at all. And anyone who can use a spellcasting focus doesn't need either.
If you have at most 3 spells from magic initiate druid that use material components, why are you going to get a component pouch when you have a focus for your other spells. If you need material components for your other two druid spells, then sure grabbing a component pouch for that other cantrip and or first level once per long rest spell may be a good idea, especially if the components are consumed. How many of those exist that don't overlap with the Cleric spell list? 1- Snare which is actually the only spell thus far that consumes its components. Is the DM going to let a component pouch provide the rope for Snare? If yes, then it probably makes sense to buy the component pouch for your druid spells, if not, why do it if it doesn't fit the image you have for your character, unless the DM puts that tax on their players. Obtaining components that have no cost, can be found in nature, and that aren't consumed can easily be done while traveling, and a human variant that chooses magic initiate druid could easily pick up those components before meeting the party with no significant cost associated with it. I've already provided the rules that say that the component pouch and the focus aren't necessary as well as three spell casters that don't have a way to acquire a focus at all nor a component pouch with starting gear.
If a DM is going to place that tax on their players for all things that aren't covered by the classes that provide those options, then that should be something that is brought up in session zero so that any player thinking about those options is informed and can plan accordingly. Meanwhile, generally speaking I've shown that for the OP's consideration and without knowing whether components will be a big deal or not for whatever reason, they can cast shillelagh by a valid interpretation of the rules. Whether their DM agrees is beyond the scope of the discussion.
As my goal of showing that it can be done in accordance with the rules, provided the quotation of those rules, and acknowledged that DM fiat can override that interpretation, I have no more reason to continue on this track unless someone wants the actual page reference for the quotations. I have no interest in trying to convince everyone that my interpretation of the rules as referenced above is the correct one, just in helping the OP have a better chance of playing the character that they want to play.
Just looking at the PHB...
There are 5 cantrips and 10 1st-level spells found on the druid spell list and not the cleric spell list. And for the purposes of this discussion, the Arcana Domain does not grant any of these 15 spells. Of those 15 spells, 2 cantrips (shillelagh and thorn whip) and 4 1st-level spells (animal friendship, goodberry, jump, and longstrider) require material components. Of these 6 spells, only goodberry has a material component cost which can be purchased outright (a sprig of mistletoe, a druidic focus). For everything else, you're darn right I would demand a component pouch. And if you're getting one, you may as well get your money's worth with multiple spells that require components.
And since we're discussing component pouches, that brings up two points to mind. First, manipulating the components in the pouch cannot be done with a hand already holding an implement. The impliment may also be a spellcasting component, but it can't also manipulate the remaining components. This is why I say casting shillelagh means the cleric cannot carry a shield. Second, the pouch can also double in providing material components for cleric spells should the holy symbol not be immediately available. It doesn't have to be used only by arcane spellcasters. Magic is magic. And an Arcana Cleric carrying a component pouch, typically only found on arcane spellcasters, is not bad from a roleplaying perspective.
Feats are an optional rule that can make your character more powerful than normal. And don't forget that the 1st-level spell acquired via Magic Initiate can still be cast with your normal spell slots. This means spells like animal friendship and longstrider can be upcast to affect more targets. I don't consider it a punishment or a tax to tell a player that, by choosing an option designed to make them more powerful, they also have to spend a little coin here and there. At 1st-level, for a variant human, it can be prohibitively expensive. There are backgrounds which can give you the coin to buy one, and if that's what the player wants I'll work with them to get it. Or they can wait until 4th level when they're more likely to afford it.
Some DMs may eschew material components, or spellcasting components altogether. I think this is a mistake as components are not only flavorful but a balancing mechanic. And I don't think it's helpful to tell the player to assume the DM will be more liberal. We should err on the side of caution with conservative advice.
A spell taken with Magic Initiate can be cast with your spell slots if you take Magic Initiate that matches your class, or a class you've dipped into, for example Magic Initiate: Cleric if you're playing a Cleric, or Magic Initiate: Druid if you've taken a level in Druid.
Component pouches are handy when multi-classing casters because you don't need a specific spell focus (which is why they're also the most expensive spell-casting accessory).
Do remember the somatic components of spells. I had to rebuild one of my characters when I realized I'd been cheating by casting the Shield spell while holding a shield, something that's not possible without the War Caster feat, which I added.
The rules do say you can perform the somatic components of spells with the hand holding the materials, and in the case of Shillelagh one of the materials is the staff/club you're casting the spell on so I suppose it could be argued the actions could still be carried out with a shield.
Interestingly, if you take the Sailor background (or through background customization take the equipment from the Sailor background) it comes with a free club, and I'm fairly sure that it's the only background that provides you with a weapon (however poor).
The majority of my responses have been conservative responses. The mention that many campaigns overlook components and then talking about the components as if they are play isn't exactly liberal. It's acknowledging a common playstyle and then exploring options if your group doesn't play that way. As is the advice to broach the topic with your DM to find out exactly what you are dealing with.
A reading that suggests that a character must have a component pouch to cast Jump or Longstrider when nothing in the spell says that you need anything other than a grasshopper's hind leg or a pinch of dirt, that's pretty extreme especially if the character is in an area where that's readily available or has been during the time they've acquired the spell. Nothing in the rules says that you have to use a component pouch or a spell casting focus. There is a line that says that you can use either for the material components. Forcing it is a home rule as much as eschewing components altogether is.
The when I'm talking about a tax for forcing players to use component pouches, I'm not talking exclusively about feats or multiclassing though they are pertinent to the discussion since the player is considering it. The tax comes for Rangers, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters that don't have an option for a focus at all, barring a ruling from the DM that allows [magicitem]Ruby of the War Mage[/spell] with its accompanying attunement tax (that's likely irrelevant while the cost of a component pouch is relevant), though it could be more expensive since it would either cost (1d6+1)*10 gp (plus 100 gp if it is ruled that it has to be located) or come at the cost of something more powerful or more useful. That's per XGTE. Those classes are the only spellcasting classes that don't get either a focus or a component pouch as part of their starting equipment (not an issue if the campaign forces everyone to start with gold instead, everyone is on equal footing.
I'll grant you that your reading of using the free hand being able to access components could apply to each component, but it's no more valid than the reading that says as long as you grab the first one with a free hand then you're good. The rules aren't explicit enough in either regard to be definitive. However, unless you are taxing their action economy by forcing the handling of components to not be included in Casting a Spell as you've said that you would (Soul Cage only works on your turn then, along with Feather Fall and Gift of Gab), then even starting with the other components before grasping the weapon for Shillelagh wouldn't be an issue unless you are saying that all material components must be out prior to casting (which would make sense if you are saying that Casting a Spell doesn't cover materials but isn't particularly supported by the rules). Shillelagh in particular would need wording that unless the druid used a spell casting focus as the item to be transformed (or that they were at least holding the weapon at the start of the turn) that they'd have to wait until the next turn to attack. Imagine a turn where you have to draw a weapon (free interaction), handle your component pouch (action), cast shillelagh (bonus action). As for the second point, the option to purchase the component pouch is available regardless of any other choice that the cleric makes. Counting that as a bonus to a tax only let's the tax sting less for the player that would have done it anyway.
As for the spells, sure there are plenty of cantrips and first level spells with material components that aren't on both lists, only Snare has a component that is consumed, which was the point that I was making. The others could have the components acquired once (usually in nature), and then kept for every casting.
However, if I was to council a player who was playing in your campaign, I'd suggest that they find out if multiclassing druid would be possible. They'd be able to have their choice of first level spells to cast as many times as possible with spell slots every long rest. They'd get the same number of cantrips. They'd get the ritual casting for any non cleric 1st level druid spell Speak with Animals and druidic (neither are likely to give extensive utility in the average campaign). Instead of being at the cost of a feat/ASI, it would be at the cost of Cleric Progression and the distinct possibility that the one level would cost them metallic armor (at which point I'd recommend saving the character for a much less restrictive DM as their concept would be difficult to explore in that setting).
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I would tax anyone's action economy. You need a free hand to manipulate material components. If you can't honestly engage with me, then you're getting blocked.
Magic is magic. Once you know the spell, you can cast it with any spell slot available to you. You don't need to have levels in the class the spell came from to use spell slots to cast it.
The SAC says otherwise. Barring the SAC, there isn't anything that rules that you can to my knowledge. Reference?
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
I was inferring that the "action economy being against them" to mean that the character would have to use their free interaction and/or action to manipulate components when nothing in the spell casting rules mentions such to be a tax on their action economy. Since you can only use those options on your turn, reaction spells like Feather Fall and Soul Cage can only be cast on your turn if that is the way that you could cast them. I don't think that is how it's intended to be played nor do I read the rules to say as much.
How could the action economy be against them if they can handle components with the Casting a Spell action? Even if you force the character to stow the weapon with their free interaction, they would still be able to handle the other components before pulling the weapon back out as a material component. That still allows you to cast Shillelagh and make an attack with it while wielding a shield, at least without specific instructions on how the components have to be handled and what the somatic components look like and what the timing of any of these has to be.
If you feel like that's a dishonest position to take, fine block me. I'll happily reciprocate, particularly if you aren't willing to show where in 5e it says that we must use the action or free interaction to deal with the components of a spell that are required to be completed to cast the spell.