I'm playing a mounted combatant/pole arm master dwarven forge cleric (level 1)/champion fighter (11). Trying to decide whether to stay the course as champion fighter, take further forge cleric levels (love the forge cleric flavor and spell access but the level 2 features feel very uninspiring), or multi-class elsewhere. Any thoughts and suggestions appreciated.
I think it's worth noting that Forge Cleric level 2 isn't just the Artisan's Blessing, you also get Turn Undead (very powerful anti-undead crowd control ability) plus every level in cleric means more spells and spell slots, as well as a step closer to unlocking more of the Forge Cleric spell list. Heat Metal for example is an absolutely fantastic spell against armoured enemies which you only get at 3rd level Forge Cleric, as it can't be saved against and only requires a bonus action to continue doing damage, so you can still attack with your three attacks while burning them alive inside their own armour. Clerics also have access to loads of useful support spells that you can either use yourself or give to allies.
It really depends how much you want more spells, as you've already got a lot of the raw hitting things bonuses from Fighter (and can't get a 4th attack); more uses of Indomitable and Action Surge are never bad things of course though. The other consideration is that if you go past a single level multi-class, then you'll need to take at least four levels in that other class if you want to avoid losing an ability score improvement/feat, though with Fighter you've already had one extra one already (6th level).
I'm currently playing a lower level Cleric/Monk multi-class, only currently with 1 level in cleric like you (though War Domain in my case) and I'm definitely going to spring for the 2nd level next as I think it'll be best for me as I want more spell options, and it's never bad to have Channel Divinity abilities in case you do need them.
While the Forge Domain's Channel Divinity isn't as obviously useful as War Domain (which adds +10 to an attack roll), it's really up to you how useful to make it; while the examples it focuses on are weapons and armour you will already have, it's the "other metal object" part that makes it interesting. You can use it to make statues, barricades, ladders, and so-on. Depending upon how your DM interprets the metal requirements, you could also potentially transform something just to remove it; for example, turn the bars of a prison cell into a weapon so you can escape and arm yourself in one go, destroy dangerous metal objects, hide evidence and so-on. There are also a bunch of relatively common uses as well; need a bucket? No problem!
Ultimately it depends on your character theme, how much spellcasting you want to do, and whether there's anything in the remaining fighter features you absolutely can't live without. I will usually argue that character theme should always be your first priority, but you'll know better than me what your campaign favours (raw combat strength vs. roleplay/theming).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I’d think you’d want at least one more level in fighter for the asi. Beyond that, do you know when the campaign will be ending? If you’re only getting 1-2 more levels vs 8, that can change things.
What spells do you use your spell slots for? Would 1 extra spell slot at level 2, or 4 extra spell slots for going to level 3 make a big difference? You could pick up some nice spells if you went to 3rd level Cleric, like Heat Metal mentioned above, or Spiritual Weapon. I'm guessing that you're using Shield of Faith with your spell slots? With the number of combats that your group does each day, would the extra spell slots make a difference?
I think it's worth noting that Forge Cleric level 2 isn't just the Artisan's Blessing, you also get Turn Undead (very powerful anti-undead crowd control ability) plus every level in cleric means more spells and spell slots, as well as a step closer to unlocking more of the Forge Cleric spell list. Heat Metal for example is an absolutely fantastic spell against armoured enemies which you only get at 3rd level Forge Cleric, as it can't be saved against and only requires a bonus action to continue doing damage, so you can still attack with your three attacks while burning them alive inside their own armour. Clerics also have access to loads of useful support spells that you can either use yourself or give to allies.
It really depends how much you want more spells, as you've already got a lot of the raw hitting things bonuses from Fighter (and can't get a 4th attack); more uses of Indomitable and Action Surge are never bad things of course though. The other consideration is that if you go past a single level multi-class, then you'll need to take at least four levels in that other class if you want to avoid losing an ability score improvement/feat, though with Fighter you've already had one extra one already (6th level).
I'm currently playing a lower level Cleric/Monk multi-class, only currently with 1 level in cleric like you (though War Domain in my case) and I'm definitely going to spring for the 2nd level next as I think it'll be best for me as I want more spell options, and it's never bad to have Channel Divinity abilities in case you do need them.
While the Forge Domain's Channel Divinity isn't as obviously useful as War Domain (which adds +10 to an attack roll), it's really up to you how useful to make it; while the examples it focuses on are weapons and armour you will already have, it's the "other metal object" part that makes it interesting. You can use it to make statues, barricades, ladders, and so-on. Depending upon how your DM interprets the metal requirements, you could also potentially transform something just to remove it; for example, turn the bars of a prison cell into a weapon so you can escape and arm yourself in one go, destroy dangerous metal objects, hide evidence and so-on. There are also a bunch of relatively common uses as well; need a bucket? No problem!
Ultimately it depends on your character theme, how much spellcasting you want to do, and whether there's anything in the remaining fighter features you absolutely can't live without. I will usually argue that character theme should always be your first priority, but you'll know better than me what your campaign favours (raw combat strength vs. roleplay/theming).
Last week in a game I'm in, the party got stuck underground and the only way out was a ladder that collapsed when one of us tried to climb it. We were supposed to explore the dangerous underground complex to find another way out. My forge cleric got a pile of scrap metal and created a ladder.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What spells do you use your spell slots for? Would 1 extra spell slot at level 2, or 4 extra spell slots for going to level 3 make a big difference? You could pick up some nice spells if you went to 3rd level Cleric, like Heat Metal mentioned above, or Spiritual Weapon. I'm guessing that you're using Shield of Faith with your spell slots? With the number of combats that your group does each day, would the extra spell slots make a difference?
Yes, Shield Of Faith is my go to. And it is unlikely the limited spell slots would make a significant difference, though heat metal and spiritual weapon are appealing.
I think it's worth noting that Forge Cleric level 2 isn't just the Artisan's Blessing, you also get Turn Undead (very powerful anti-undead crowd control ability) plus every level in cleric means more spells and spell slots, as well as a step closer to unlocking more of the Forge Cleric spell list. Heat Metal for example is an absolutely fantastic spell against armoured enemies which you only get at 3rd level Forge Cleric, as it can't be saved against and only requires a bonus action to continue doing damage, so you can still attack with your three attacks while burning them alive inside their own armour. Clerics also have access to loads of useful support spells that you can either use yourself or give to allies.
It really depends how much you want more spells, as you've already got a lot of the raw hitting things bonuses from Fighter (and can't get a 4th attack); more uses of Indomitable and Action Surge are never bad things of course though. The other consideration is that if you go past a single level multi-class, then you'll need to take at least four levels in that other class if you want to avoid losing an ability score improvement/feat, though with Fighter you've already had one extra one already (6th level).
I'm currently playing a lower level Cleric/Monk multi-class, only currently with 1 level in cleric like you (though War Domain in my case) and I'm definitely going to spring for the 2nd level next as I think it'll be best for me as I want more spell options, and it's never bad to have Channel Divinity abilities in case you do need them.
While the Forge Domain's Channel Divinity isn't as obviously useful as War Domain (which adds +10 to an attack roll), it's really up to you how useful to make it; while the examples it focuses on are weapons and armour you will already have, it's the "other metal object" part that makes it interesting. You can use it to make statues, barricades, ladders, and so-on. Depending upon how your DM interprets the metal requirements, you could also potentially transform something just to remove it; for example, turn the bars of a prison cell into a weapon so you can escape and arm yourself in one go, destroy dangerous metal objects, hide evidence and so-on. There are also a bunch of relatively common uses as well; need a bucket? No problem!
Ultimately it depends on your character theme, how much spellcasting you want to do, and whether there's anything in the remaining fighter features you absolutely can't live without. I will usually argue that character theme should always be your first priority, but you'll know better than me what your campaign favours (raw combat strength vs. roleplay/theming).
Thank you. All very sound and helpful advice. I took the Forge Cleric dip for flavor initially. My 20str fighter thought he could bash his way out of any situation until he ran into multiple curses, hexes, and spooky magic completely outside his simple Mountain Dwarf experience and he immediately found religion. From my folk hero character POV I'm looking at the best path to thwart adversaries threatening the homeland. Heat Metal is a GREAT spell and turning undead is no joke (though my moderate wisdom, 14, may not be that helpful in that regard as we are at 12th level in the Rise Of Tiamat campaign. The looming 18-20 crit and indomitable/action surge boosts are appealing and kinda fit the role-play angle too so there's much to ponder. Thanks again for the input.
What spells do you use your spell slots for? Would 1 extra spell slot at level 2, or 4 extra spell slots for going to level 3 make a big difference? You could pick up some nice spells if you went to 3rd level Cleric, like Heat Metal mentioned above, or Spiritual Weapon. I'm guessing that you're using Shield of Faith with your spell slots? With the number of combats that your group does each day, would the extra spell slots make a difference?
Yes, Shield Of Faith is my go to. And it is unlikely the limited spell slots would make a significant difference, though heat metal and spiritual weapon are appealing.
If you're only doing 2 combats per long rest, the extra spell slots won't help very much. One of the really big reasons to get a 3rd level in a full caster is the HUGE jump from 3 spell slots to 6 spell slots. But if magic isn't a big part of what you want to do, then it's not really worth it to get literally twice as many spell slots as a 3rd level Cleric than you would have as a 2nd level Cleric.
The channel divinity can be decent at low levels, but by the time your party is level 12, the channel divinity isn't nearly as useful. The ability to turn a non-magical weapon or armor into a +1 weapon or +1 armor is another ability that is much better at low levels than it is at level 12+. Even Spiritual Weapon would qualify as being much better at low levels than it is at high levels.
While the damage from Heat Metal is much less of a big deal at high levels, the disadvantage on attack rolls is still a big deal at high levels. If you haven't found adamantine armor or found some way to give enemies disadvantage when they attack you, it could be quite useful to get Heat Metal to often be able to cause an enemy's crit chance to drop from a somewhat likely 5% to an extremely unlikely 0.25%. You're probably playing a tanky character, so you'll love being able to give an enemy disadvantage on attacks. I think that might justify taking 2 more levels in Cleric. If you have the time for it, going all the way to 5 levels in Cleric for Spirit Guardians is good for a tanky character, especially one that wants to control enemy movement, which with the polearm master feat might be something that you're aiming for.
I don't think that you're missing out on too much by skipping levels 12+ at Fighter. You've already got the 3rd attack per turn. But then again, I've never been a fan of Fighters.
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I'm playing a mounted combatant/pole arm master dwarven forge cleric (level 1)/champion fighter (11). Trying to decide whether to stay the course as champion fighter, take further forge cleric levels (love the forge cleric flavor and spell access but the level 2 features feel very uninspiring), or multi-class elsewhere. Any thoughts and suggestions appreciated.
I think it's worth noting that Forge Cleric level 2 isn't just the Artisan's Blessing, you also get Turn Undead (very powerful anti-undead crowd control ability) plus every level in cleric means more spells and spell slots, as well as a step closer to unlocking more of the Forge Cleric spell list. Heat Metal for example is an absolutely fantastic spell against armoured enemies which you only get at 3rd level Forge Cleric, as it can't be saved against and only requires a bonus action to continue doing damage, so you can still attack with your three attacks while burning them alive inside their own armour. Clerics also have access to loads of useful support spells that you can either use yourself or give to allies.
It really depends how much you want more spells, as you've already got a lot of the raw hitting things bonuses from Fighter (and can't get a 4th attack); more uses of Indomitable and Action Surge are never bad things of course though. The other consideration is that if you go past a single level multi-class, then you'll need to take at least four levels in that other class if you want to avoid losing an ability score improvement/feat, though with Fighter you've already had one extra one already (6th level).
I'm currently playing a lower level Cleric/Monk multi-class, only currently with 1 level in cleric like you (though War Domain in my case) and I'm definitely going to spring for the 2nd level next as I think it'll be best for me as I want more spell options, and it's never bad to have Channel Divinity abilities in case you do need them.
While the Forge Domain's Channel Divinity isn't as obviously useful as War Domain (which adds +10 to an attack roll), it's really up to you how useful to make it; while the examples it focuses on are weapons and armour you will already have, it's the "other metal object" part that makes it interesting. You can use it to make statues, barricades, ladders, and so-on. Depending upon how your DM interprets the metal requirements, you could also potentially transform something just to remove it; for example, turn the bars of a prison cell into a weapon so you can escape and arm yourself in one go, destroy dangerous metal objects, hide evidence and so-on. There are also a bunch of relatively common uses as well; need a bucket? No problem!
Ultimately it depends on your character theme, how much spellcasting you want to do, and whether there's anything in the remaining fighter features you absolutely can't live without. I will usually argue that character theme should always be your first priority, but you'll know better than me what your campaign favours (raw combat strength vs. roleplay/theming).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I’d think you’d want at least one more level in fighter for the asi. Beyond that, do you know when the campaign will be ending? If you’re only getting 1-2 more levels vs 8, that can change things.
What spells do you use your spell slots for? Would 1 extra spell slot at level 2, or 4 extra spell slots for going to level 3 make a big difference? You could pick up some nice spells if you went to 3rd level Cleric, like Heat Metal mentioned above, or Spiritual Weapon. I'm guessing that you're using Shield of Faith with your spell slots? With the number of combats that your group does each day, would the extra spell slots make a difference?
Last week in a game I'm in, the party got stuck underground and the only way out was a ladder that collapsed when one of us tried to climb it. We were supposed to explore the dangerous underground complex to find another way out. My forge cleric got a pile of scrap metal and created a ladder.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yes, Shield Of Faith is my go to. And it is unlikely the limited spell slots would make a significant difference, though heat metal and spiritual weapon are appealing.
Thank you. All very sound and helpful advice. I took the Forge Cleric dip for flavor initially. My 20str fighter thought he could bash his way out of any situation until he ran into multiple curses, hexes, and spooky magic completely outside his simple Mountain Dwarf experience and he immediately found religion. From my folk hero character POV I'm looking at the best path to thwart adversaries threatening the homeland. Heat Metal is a GREAT spell and turning undead is no joke (though my moderate wisdom, 14, may not be that helpful in that regard as we are at 12th level in the Rise Of Tiamat campaign. The looming 18-20 crit and indomitable/action surge boosts are appealing and kinda fit the role-play angle too so there's much to ponder. Thanks again for the input.
If you're only doing 2 combats per long rest, the extra spell slots won't help very much. One of the really big reasons to get a 3rd level in a full caster is the HUGE jump from 3 spell slots to 6 spell slots. But if magic isn't a big part of what you want to do, then it's not really worth it to get literally twice as many spell slots as a 3rd level Cleric than you would have as a 2nd level Cleric.
The channel divinity can be decent at low levels, but by the time your party is level 12, the channel divinity isn't nearly as useful. The ability to turn a non-magical weapon or armor into a +1 weapon or +1 armor is another ability that is much better at low levels than it is at level 12+. Even Spiritual Weapon would qualify as being much better at low levels than it is at high levels.
While the damage from Heat Metal is much less of a big deal at high levels, the disadvantage on attack rolls is still a big deal at high levels. If you haven't found adamantine armor or found some way to give enemies disadvantage when they attack you, it could be quite useful to get Heat Metal to often be able to cause an enemy's crit chance to drop from a somewhat likely 5% to an extremely unlikely 0.25%. You're probably playing a tanky character, so you'll love being able to give an enemy disadvantage on attacks. I think that might justify taking 2 more levels in Cleric. If you have the time for it, going all the way to 5 levels in Cleric for Spirit Guardians is good for a tanky character, especially one that wants to control enemy movement, which with the polearm master feat might be something that you're aiming for.
I don't think that you're missing out on too much by skipping levels 12+ at Fighter. You've already got the 3rd attack per turn. But then again, I've never been a fan of Fighters.