I'm planning on creating a Druid as my 2nd character, and two of the Tasha's subclasses caught my eye. I like how unique Spores is, it's a nice emphasis on mixing tanking and melee. And all the different starry forms for the Circle of Stars really makes it seem quite powerful. Also, how good are they compared to each other?
Stars, I think, is the more versatile choice. As you say, Spores seems to be a bit more focused on melee and closer range. With a d8 hit die and (relatively) bad armor, you might find yourself in trouble more often playing melee. Also, the stars wild shape option lasts for 10 minutes, whereas if you lose the temp HP that the spores option gives, your wild shape ends early. Also, the stars wild shape can be activated as a bonus action rather than an action. This is actually probably OK for spores, because you will want that first round bonus action to activate shillelagh... but that also means your entire first turn is activating your features.
I've never played either, but another player is playing a stars druid in my current campaign. The biggest thing going for it is the versatility. You can choose what you want to be better at in the moment, rather than choosing one option to excel at only at level 2.
Oh, yeah I don't like how I need a full turn to activate my spores features + shillelagh. It's better for Starry Form cause I can immediately activate it and then start casting, since I don't need shillelagh to help boost melee combat. But all of the other features seem very good, especially at 14th level where you become resistant to melee damage.
Although I don't like how you can't switch for a long while until level 10. I may pick the Archer form the most for pure damage, unless if I need to switch to Chalice after combat and start healing everyone. Dragon seems good but I'm not exactly sure how I'll be able to use it effectively until level 10, where you can basically fly.
Although I don't like how you can't switch for a long while until level 10. I may pick the Archer form the most for pure damage, unless if I need to switch to Chalice after combat and start healing everyone. Dragon seems good but I'm not exactly sure how I'll be able to use it effectively until level 10, where you can basically fly.
I see the main use of dragon form especially at low levels is for when you have a concentration spell up. As long as you don't have Con less than 8 you are guananteed ot make any save for concentration unless you take more than 20 damage with a single strike (and that shouldn't happen much at low levels as it would probably knock you unconcious from full health until you get to level 4)
the damage buff of halo of spores continues while in wildshape
stars get both starry arrows as bonus actions for their 10 min wildshapes and 3 free guiding bolts per long rest. Add a decent ranged cantrip and you're a pretty good wisdom mod fighter. cosmic omens is lacklustre but allow a chance for either three d6 buffs to allies' rolls or three d6 nerfs to enemy rolls. Not so bad. It keeps your action, bonus action and reaction covered.
First, halo of spores is improved by the symbiotic entity use of Wild Shape. I guess it is true that it doesn't go away if you use your normal wild shape, though the CRs available to non-moon druids don't make wild shaping into a beast a good choice during combat.
Second, the archer form is *ok,* but isn't the best choice. As a druid, you are so reliant on concentration that it will be rare that you are in a position that keeping that won't be more valuable than those few extra attacks. Heck, concentrating for 1 more round on a spell might net you more damage than using your bonus action every round of the entire combat, depending on the spell you're concentrating on. Also, some of your concentration options might use up your bonus action anyway.
Third, you get a number of guiding bolts equal to your proficiency bonus; your proficiency bonus increases as you level.
There are some weird interpretations in the previous post.
First, halo of spores is improved by the symbiotic entity use of Wild Shape. I guess it is true that it doesn't go away if you use your normal wild shape, though the CRs available to non-moon druids don't make wild shaping into a beast a good choice during combat.
Second, the archer form is *ok,* but isn't the best choice. As a druid, you are so reliant on concentration that it will be rare that you are in a position that keeping that won't be more valuable than those few extra attacks. Heck, concentrating for 1 more round on a spell might net you more damage than using your bonus action every round of the entire combat, depending on the spell you're concentrating on. Also, some of your concentration options might use up your bonus action anyway.
Third, you get a number of guiding bolts equal to your proficiency bonus; your proficiency bonus increases as you level.
There are some weird interpretations in the previous post.
First I was replying to an OP that had commented, "I like how unique Spores is, it's a nice emphasis on mixing tanking and melee." Depending on party composition and if your not going moon druid, turning into a wildshape for the sake of survivability while other party members pile in the damage can be a viable option. If the party has other main party members putting themselves in harm's way then, sure, the symbiotic entity will be good for the time you stay up. When not in wildshape opting for a race with natural defences like tortle might also help.
Second, a fair bit depends on level, opponents and DM/player willingness to handle lots of combatants. If you start your campaign with humanoid enemies then heat metal can be great. Hold Person will have a number of opponents comparable to the spell level used, held. Summoning spells are dependent on DM willingness for multi-participant combats which may not necessarily be your entitlement. Our party found some good utility with flaming sphere but,, with it's 60 foot range, there was plenty of opportunity to stay in relative safety behind the sphere or other party members but, such situations, may not always be the case. Spike growth can leave you more vulnerable especially if using thorn whip to drag opponents towards you. When getting on to use of higher level spells like polymorph for a willing party member then I certainly opted for dragon shape while also trying to keep myself out of trouble. For your 2nd level character, the archer stary form may suit well in some situations and for a while.
Third, yep. I forgot you started with just 2 guiding bolts.
I personally haven't played the Circle of Spores, but i love my Circle of Stars druid. I'd say its great if you like to have a lot of features. The Cosmic Omen is a fun bonus, but the wild shape feature is the best. Makes you very versatile, you can switch between being a healer and a DPS if you want, very powerful early on. At level 10 receives a good bonus too. If you combine that with the optional familiar class feature from Tasha's, it really adds use to Wild Shape.
I really like Circle of Stars, its overly a fun subclass to play as well as being very versatile. Also the backstory you can make with it is quite fun.
Compared to each other, Stars is the better choice of the two. The class features and abilities you get are all streamlined to work nicely with the action economy, and are good at all stages of the game.
Comparatively, Spores can really feel a bit clunky to play thanks to Symbiotic Entity eating your action, constant CON saves for a measly extra d4 necrotic damage once per turn, and not having a class feature once you run out of Temp HP from Symbiotic Entity. The class seems like it was designed to start the early game as a sort of melee-druid, but then slowly transition back into more of an ultra tanky spell-caster as you scale. For example, something that was disappointing to me was that It's 6th level feature is really cool, but pretty niche since the higher in level you go, the less likely it is that you'll be fighting beasts and humanoids to re-animate. And even if you were, you probably won't be in melee very much at this level either since you don't get extra attack and your ranged, spell-cantrips are starting to out-scale the damage you do with the spores + shillelagh combo.
All that to say that if you like the playstyle of a druid that can tank, throw down in melee, and still cast spells, you'd probably be happier if you went with Moon.
That being said, I loved both my Stars Druid and my Spores Druid equally. Spores did eventually feel weaker to play as I scaled, and I felt like I was losing a bit of the flavor of the character (at least in combat) since I started relying more on the Druid's base features instead of the Spore's features. As a character though, she was fun to play. Spores has great flavor as a subclass. Stars druid does as well, and its a very solid subclass all around.
TL;DR -- Stars is the stronger of the two mechanically. Spores is playable but has some frustrating setbacks.
Spores is really quite good, BUT it's a trap if you think you're going to be "focusing on melee". That might be viable a bit in tier 1, but druids just aren't built to melee. What Spores has going for it is the following:
The best spells known list of any druid subclass, including some nice non-concentration options unique to this druid subclass.
Symbiotic Entity's temp HP pool scales really well, and the temp HP don't have that pesky 10 minute duration (it's listed separately). This means you can be sitting there with a massive temp HP buffer without messing with your action economy if you just use it pre-emptively and forget about the paltry damage boosting part of that feature.
Chill touch is much better than any druid attack cantrip, with it's 120 foot range and prevention of healing.
Spores is basically as tanky as Moon, but while being a full-time caster. You can take fireballs to the face and not flinch. You get some very nice spells. Animate Dead is fantastic and has some nice tricks with druid (take magic stone and use your BA to make 3 stones that you can have skeletons throw for 1d6+your WIS damage). Zombies are pretty useful meat shields. One trick I like to do is use Giant Insect to get centipedes or wasps and use them for the free zombies when they die. This is a little DM dependent on whether they allow it, but I feel like many if not most would (technically they shrink when they die and you have to turn them after they die...).
TLDR: Stop thinking of spores as a melee druid. Melee damage is a tiny part of what spores gives you, and the druid chassis is not at all designed to support melee damage. You'll be mediocre at it in Tier 1 and terrible after that.
I would have to point out you need a lenient DM; giant insect says that the creatures revert to their original form when they reach 0 hp, and none of those creatures say what size category they originally are. Symbiotic Entity allows you to raise beasts, but they need to be small or medium, so you’d have to rule that a regular wasp or a centipede (the non-giant forms) are small rather than tiny. Or you could ignore that part of giant insect that says that they revert at 0hp.
The RAW reason it (probably) doesn't work is very technical, and I don't think a DM would have to be very lenient in order to allow it. Basically, when the beast dies two things both happen. 1) It shrinks back to being tiny and 2) you use your reaction to turn it into a zombie. These both occur when the creature dies, so the question is just whether your reaction can go off before it finishes shrinking back to tiny size. Technically, just going by RAW it probably doesn't work unless the DM rules that the shrinking doesn't happen instantaneously (fairly reasonable IMO).
Considering that all this trick is trying to do is let you access a class feature that is already limited (Wisdom Mod per day), it's in no way game-breaking, and the argument against it is extremely technical, I wager it would actually take a very strict DM to disallow it.
Circle of Stars is a terrific subclass, second only to Circle of the Moon. If I were grading Stars I'd put it somewhere in the S class range, it's pretty awesome. It adds a lot to damage output and healing, and Cosmic Omen really helps with saves.
Spores in comparison is still good, but it's more like a low B. Spores is the most complex of the Druid subs, so I hope you know what you're doing. There are a bunch of solid abilities but it's easy to not build them well, so be careful.
You need to know what you’re doing with Spores. Don’t try to frontline. But you’re good for keeping melee types away from your squishy friends. Halo of Spores isn’t that great. Be careful about burning your reaction.
Also, just keep shillelagh on your staff at all times. Tell the DM you renew it as needed throughout the day.
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I'm planning on creating a Druid as my 2nd character, and two of the Tasha's subclasses caught my eye. I like how unique Spores is, it's a nice emphasis on mixing tanking and melee. And all the different starry forms for the Circle of Stars really makes it seem quite powerful. Also, how good are they compared to each other?
Stars, I think, is the more versatile choice. As you say, Spores seems to be a bit more focused on melee and closer range. With a d8 hit die and (relatively) bad armor, you might find yourself in trouble more often playing melee. Also, the stars wild shape option lasts for 10 minutes, whereas if you lose the temp HP that the spores option gives, your wild shape ends early. Also, the stars wild shape can be activated as a bonus action rather than an action. This is actually probably OK for spores, because you will want that first round bonus action to activate shillelagh... but that also means your entire first turn is activating your features.
I've never played either, but another player is playing a stars druid in my current campaign. The biggest thing going for it is the versatility. You can choose what you want to be better at in the moment, rather than choosing one option to excel at only at level 2.
Oh, yeah I don't like how I need a full turn to activate my spores features + shillelagh. It's better for Starry Form cause I can immediately activate it and then start casting, since I don't need shillelagh to help boost melee combat. But all of the other features seem very good, especially at 14th level where you become resistant to melee damage.
Although I don't like how you can't switch for a long while until level 10. I may pick the Archer form the most for pure damage, unless if I need to switch to Chalice after combat and start healing everyone. Dragon seems good but I'm not exactly sure how I'll be able to use it effectively until level 10, where you can basically fly.
I see the main use of dragon form especially at low levels is for when you have a concentration spell up. As long as you don't have Con less than 8 you are guananteed ot make any save for concentration unless you take more than 20 damage with a single strike (and that shouldn't happen much at low levels as it would probably knock you unconcious from full health until you get to level 4)
the damage buff of halo of spores continues while in wildshape
stars get both starry arrows as bonus actions for their 10 min wildshapes and 3 free guiding bolts per long rest. Add a decent ranged cantrip and you're a pretty good wisdom mod fighter. cosmic omens is lacklustre but allow a chance for either three d6 buffs to allies' rolls or three d6 nerfs to enemy rolls. Not so bad. It keeps your action, bonus action and reaction covered.
First, halo of spores is improved by the symbiotic entity use of Wild Shape. I guess it is true that it doesn't go away if you use your normal wild shape, though the CRs available to non-moon druids don't make wild shaping into a beast a good choice during combat.
Second, the archer form is *ok,* but isn't the best choice. As a druid, you are so reliant on concentration that it will be rare that you are in a position that keeping that won't be more valuable than those few extra attacks. Heck, concentrating for 1 more round on a spell might net you more damage than using your bonus action every round of the entire combat, depending on the spell you're concentrating on. Also, some of your concentration options might use up your bonus action anyway.
Third, you get a number of guiding bolts equal to your proficiency bonus; your proficiency bonus increases as you level.
There are some weird interpretations in the previous post.
First I was replying to an OP that had commented, "I like how unique Spores is, it's a nice emphasis on mixing tanking and melee." Depending on party composition and if your not going moon druid, turning into a wildshape for the sake of survivability while other party members pile in the damage can be a viable option. If the party has other main party members putting themselves in harm's way then, sure, the symbiotic entity will be good for the time you stay up. When not in wildshape opting for a race with natural defences like tortle might also help.
Second, a fair bit depends on level, opponents and DM/player willingness to handle lots of combatants. If you start your campaign with humanoid enemies then heat metal can be great. Hold Person will have a number of opponents comparable to the spell level used, held. Summoning spells are dependent on DM willingness for multi-participant combats which may not necessarily be your entitlement. Our party found some good utility with flaming sphere but,, with it's 60 foot range, there was plenty of opportunity to stay in relative safety behind the sphere or other party members but, such situations, may not always be the case. Spike growth can leave you more vulnerable especially if using thorn whip to drag opponents towards you. When getting on to use of higher level spells like polymorph for a willing party member then I certainly opted for dragon shape while also trying to keep myself out of trouble. For your 2nd level character, the archer stary form may suit well in some situations and for a while.
Third, yep. I forgot you started with just 2 guiding bolts.
I personally haven't played the Circle of Spores, but i love my Circle of Stars druid. I'd say its great if you like to have a lot of features. The Cosmic Omen is a fun bonus, but the wild shape feature is the best. Makes you very versatile, you can switch between being a healer and a DPS if you want, very powerful early on. At level 10 receives a good bonus too. If you combine that with the optional familiar class feature from Tasha's, it really adds use to Wild Shape.
I really like Circle of Stars, its overly a fun subclass to play as well as being very versatile. Also the backstory you can make with it is quite fun.
I played both classes for a bit.
Compared to each other, Stars is the better choice of the two. The class features and abilities you get are all streamlined to work nicely with the action economy, and are good at all stages of the game.
Comparatively, Spores can really feel a bit clunky to play thanks to Symbiotic Entity eating your action, constant CON saves for a measly extra d4 necrotic damage once per turn, and not having a class feature once you run out of Temp HP from Symbiotic Entity. The class seems like it was designed to start the early game as a sort of melee-druid, but then slowly transition back into more of an ultra tanky spell-caster as you scale. For example, something that was disappointing to me was that It's 6th level feature is really cool, but pretty niche since the higher in level you go, the less likely it is that you'll be fighting beasts and humanoids to re-animate. And even if you were, you probably won't be in melee very much at this level either since you don't get extra attack and your ranged, spell-cantrips are starting to out-scale the damage you do with the spores + shillelagh combo.
All that to say that if you like the playstyle of a druid that can tank, throw down in melee, and still cast spells, you'd probably be happier if you went with Moon.
That being said, I loved both my Stars Druid and my Spores Druid equally. Spores did eventually feel weaker to play as I scaled, and I felt like I was losing a bit of the flavor of the character (at least in combat) since I started relying more on the Druid's base features instead of the Spore's features. As a character though, she was fun to play. Spores has great flavor as a subclass. Stars druid does as well, and its a very solid subclass all around.
TL;DR -- Stars is the stronger of the two mechanically. Spores is playable but has some frustrating setbacks.
Spores is really quite good, BUT it's a trap if you think you're going to be "focusing on melee". That might be viable a bit in tier 1, but druids just aren't built to melee. What Spores has going for it is the following:
Spores is basically as tanky as Moon, but while being a full-time caster. You can take fireballs to the face and not flinch. You get some very nice spells. Animate Dead is fantastic and has some nice tricks with druid (take magic stone and use your BA to make 3 stones that you can have skeletons throw for 1d6+your WIS damage). Zombies are pretty useful meat shields. One trick I like to do is use Giant Insect to get centipedes or wasps and use them for the free zombies when they die. This is a little DM dependent on whether they allow it, but I feel like many if not most would (technically they shrink when they die and you have to turn them after they die...).
TLDR: Stop thinking of spores as a melee druid. Melee damage is a tiny part of what spores gives you, and the druid chassis is not at all designed to support melee damage. You'll be mediocre at it in Tier 1 and terrible after that.
I would have to point out you need a lenient DM; giant insect says that the creatures revert to their original form when they reach 0 hp, and none of those creatures say what size category they originally are. Symbiotic Entity allows you to raise beasts, but they need to be small or medium, so you’d have to rule that a regular wasp or a centipede (the non-giant forms) are small rather than tiny. Or you could ignore that part of giant insect that says that they revert at 0hp.
The RAW reason it (probably) doesn't work is very technical, and I don't think a DM would have to be very lenient in order to allow it. Basically, when the beast dies two things both happen. 1) It shrinks back to being tiny and 2) you use your reaction to turn it into a zombie. These both occur when the creature dies, so the question is just whether your reaction can go off before it finishes shrinking back to tiny size. Technically, just going by RAW it probably doesn't work unless the DM rules that the shrinking doesn't happen instantaneously (fairly reasonable IMO).
Considering that all this trick is trying to do is let you access a class feature that is already limited (Wisdom Mod per day), it's in no way game-breaking, and the argument against it is extremely technical, I wager it would actually take a very strict DM to disallow it.
Circle of Stars is a terrific subclass, second only to Circle of the Moon. If I were grading Stars I'd put it somewhere in the S class range, it's pretty awesome. It adds a lot to damage output and healing, and Cosmic Omen really helps with saves.
Spores in comparison is still good, but it's more like a low B. Spores is the most complex of the Druid subs, so I hope you know what you're doing. There are a bunch of solid abilities but it's easy to not build them well, so be careful.
J
You need to know what you’re doing with Spores. Don’t try to frontline. But you’re good for keeping melee types away from your squishy friends. Halo of Spores isn’t that great. Be careful about burning your reaction.
Also, just keep shillelagh on your staff at all times. Tell the DM you renew it as needed throughout the day.