Wildshape is basically "channel nature" at this point. You can already use wildshape to summon a familiar, for Land's Aid and Nature's Sanctuary, Wrath of the Sea and Starry Form.
They could have named the thing "channel nature" and made wildshape the core use of that ability, like turn undead is for the cleric.
I feel like alot of criticism I'm reading about the druid in this thread is that it's not enough like every other spell Caster. Not enough elemental damage spells! Should have a channel divinity like ability! Classes should have diversity. If they're all the same, there is no reason to have different classes. Druids are great at what they do. If you don't see their strengths and why they're fun to play, maybe they're not for you.
They do give outings through subclasses to help fulfill the fantasy you want to play. If you like the nature theme but want a channel divinity, consider nature cleric. Want fireball and other such spells, you have land druids or wild magic sorcerer.
Wildshape is basically "channel nature" at this point. You can already use wildshape to summon a familiar, for Land's Aid and Nature's Sanctuary, Wrath of the Sea and Starry Form.
They could have named the thing "channel nature" and made wildshape the core use of that ability, like turn undead is for the cleric.
Wildshape is basically "channel nature" at this point. You can already use wildshape to summon a familiar, for Land's Aid and Nature's Sanctuary, Wrath of the Sea and Starry Form.
They could have named the thing "channel nature" and made wildshape the core use of that ability, like turn undead is for the cleric.
Fair point, but IMO like the others in here, there should be some elemental options to really capture the full range of the raw power of nature. Beasts alone are not enough to capture the full range and power of nature. Druids should be able to channel elemental forces in a way that scales similar to the Cleric's channel divinity Divine Spark. And I don't think wildshape and channeling elements is more powerful than the Cleric's channel divinity because Clerics get 2 features from Channel Divinity: Divine Spark (which has damage that scales) and Turn Undead.
If you like the nature theme but want a channel divinity, consider nature cleric.
You mean the one they got rid of for one dnd? (note: I believe their reasoning for the removal is that it was to similar to the druid.
They didn't get rid of it. They just didn't reprint it in the new 2024 handbook. It's still a viable subclass as 2024 rules are meant to be backwards compatible with all previously printed content.
If you like the nature theme but want a channel divinity, consider nature cleric.
You mean the one they got rid of for one dnd? (note: I believe their reasoning for the removal is that it was to similar to the druid.
They didn't get rid of it. They just didn't reprint it in the new 2024 handbook. It's still a viable subclass as 2024 rules are meant to be backwards compatible with all previously printed content.
While the 2024 PHB ids deigned to be backwards compatable it replaces the 2014 PHB. The Twilight cleric is not classesd as legacy content as it was in Tasha's but the Nature Cleric was in the 2014 PHB so is now classed as legacy. Having said that I expect most DMs that allow content from pre 2024 PHB will allow the 2014 PHB subclasses that have not been updated in the 2024 PHB.
Just finished 4 modules starting at Lvl 5 with a 2024 circle of moon druid at GameholeCon. I'm calling it a success. In particular:
Scout forms like spider (stealth), bat (fly/blindsight), cat (+4 dex saves) or octopus can now survive and even cast. You even keep your own saves, if higher.
You can go 2024 Camel for Con saves (+9 at lvl 6 from Increased Toughness, with advantage if you took War Caster and Wis to 18 at lvl 4), then concentrate on moonbeam or conjure animals and blast away with Starry Wisp and potent spellcasting from afar
Moon Sickle is viable with shield by using True Strike. Or you can Shillelagh combo if you don't have the sickle
You can use low CR0 Vulture or Baboon at range for pack tactics on Starry Wisp, hold your Moon Sickle, and have survivability
Easy to get AC18 as caster with medium armor + shield, and as animal form by level 8
As Elf/Sage you can get Misty Step and Shield, plus Absorb Elements (with expanded rulebooks), adding more to caster form survivability
With one action (improved 2024 cure wounds) and bonus action (recast wild shape for temp hp) you are full up
Another healer can now also top up your base hp while you are in wild shape
Extra wild shapes with Resurgence at level 5 lets you be very versatile, to swap from scout to camel to polar bear etc
Not specific to moon druid but the polymorph temp hp shield is downright sick and you can drop concentration to let the recipient resume casting, if they dont want to smash as a giant ape or trex.
The 6 or 8 forms limit in Tier 2 didn't seem too constraining, though I can see it might for others. Moon druid may not min/max to the most dpr or hpr, but it was pretty fun. I enjoyed using bonus action to switch to bat and find invisible enemy, then action to light it up with Wisp. And using the new feymiliar owl form to deliver a huge cure wounds while I was in melee or not able to get to a party member. Haven't played at level 9 yet, but the updated Grasping Vine and Giant Insect look fun, too. Will be interesting to see the beasts in the new MM. A higher to-hit Giant Scorp with 3 attacks + Fount/CME could be fun and sort of keep up with the Valor Bards with 4 attacks + CME at level 10 or Wizards with 5 scorching rays + CME. And, of course, with goodberry and elementalism, no need for rations or waterskins...
I love Elf for Trance feature as well. Use the extra time for a couple of short rest to get the familiar and extra 1st level slot for an extra wild shape at 5th.
One thing I think the 2024 druid got wrong was eliminating elemental wild shape for Moon druids. I realize that ALL druids now get Elemental & Improved Elemental Fury, which is good because I think druids need to incorporate more elemental features. But given that the 2024 Moon druid can no longer wild shape into an Earth Elemental at Level 10 and get the 124 HP of the earth elemental (which most people thought was OP in the 2014 Moon druid) but instead just gets temp HP = 3 x their druid level, I don’t understand why a Moon druid’s just taking the form of an elemental at level 10 was eliminated given that the HP mechanic was changed (nerfed).
Another reason they should not have eliminated elemental forms is because you can now 4th level polymorph on yourself to Giant Ape. Drop concentration. Now you have 157 temp hp in caster form and can wreak even more damage than an elemental with nukes plus a different concentration spell. Now THAT is OP. At least until they nerf it or the new MM is released and Giant Ape has 57 hp.
Another reason they should not have eliminated elemental forms is because you can now 4th level polymorph on yourself to Giant Ape. Drop concentration. Now you have 157 temp hp in caster form and can wreak even more damage than an elemental with nukes plus a different concentration spell. Now THAT is OP. At least until they nerf it or the new MM is released and Giant Ape has 57 hp.
That is one interpretation of the rules, not one id go with but I can see how people read it that way.
That is one interpretation of the rules, not one id go with but I can see how people read it that way.
Which part? The new polymorph spell or dropping concentration? I admit, it's not unique to druid, as just about every caster gets it.
Keeping the temp hit points when you drop concentration. IMO the general rule of temp hit points is overridden by the specific rule of concentration and spell duration. This is not just polymorph and concertation, its that a spells effect ends including the temp hit points when the duration is up whether that is based on a time limit with for example armor of agathys or dropping concentration on polymorph. Temp hit points that are delivered via a instantaneous effect whether its a feat, class ability or a spell like false life last per the temp hit points general rule.
Definitely confusing on their part. I thought the temp hp rule about lasting until they are depleted or long rest would override the concentration description. It does seem OP to have done it this way, but they did, and didn't bother to resolve it in either place. Needs a clarification for sure.
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Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
Would the result of a wizard at level 7 using a level 4 spell with tons of other uses being able to polymorph into a giant ape, drop concentration and get 157 temp hit points make sense for the game as a 4th level spell when power word fortify a 7th level spell on a more appropriate class for granting temp hit point only delivers 120. If the answer is no, I think you know what the intent is and how the rules should be read. Though i am sure right now there are multiple youtube creators trying to hustle up a $ by claiming otherwise, so you can listen to their arguments for why I am wrong if you want.
Sure, but everyone had to make a judgement call until then. I have given my opinion on it, but I won't say i am right, I think i am, but I have been wrong before. If you want to hear the other side of this and their reasoning behind it, it's out there on YouTube. Use whichever reasoning you like to fit how you want to run it.
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Wildshape is basically "channel nature" at this point. You can already use wildshape to summon a familiar, for Land's Aid and Nature's Sanctuary, Wrath of the Sea and Starry Form.
They could have named the thing "channel nature" and made wildshape the core use of that ability, like turn undead is for the cleric.
I feel like alot of criticism I'm reading about the druid in this thread is that it's not enough like every other spell Caster. Not enough elemental damage spells! Should have a channel divinity like ability! Classes should have diversity. If they're all the same, there is no reason to have different classes. Druids are great at what they do. If you don't see their strengths and why they're fun to play, maybe they're not for you.
They do give outings through subclasses to help fulfill the fantasy you want to play. If you like the nature theme but want a channel divinity, consider nature cleric. Want fireball and other such spells, you have land druids or wild magic sorcerer.
100% this. Great point
You mean the one they got rid of for one dnd? (note: I believe their reasoning for the removal is that it was to similar to the druid.
Fair point, but IMO like the others in here, there should be some elemental options to really capture the full range of the raw power of nature. Beasts alone are not enough to capture the full range and power of nature. Druids should be able to channel elemental forces in a way that scales similar to the Cleric's channel divinity Divine Spark. And I don't think wildshape and channeling elements is more powerful than the Cleric's channel divinity because Clerics get 2 features from Channel Divinity: Divine Spark (which has damage that scales) and Turn Undead.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
They didn't get rid of it. They just didn't reprint it in the new 2024 handbook. It's still a viable subclass as 2024 rules are meant to be backwards compatible with all previously printed content.
While the 2024 PHB ids deigned to be backwards compatable it replaces the 2014 PHB. The Twilight cleric is not classesd as legacy content as it was in Tasha's but the Nature Cleric was in the 2014 PHB so is now classed as legacy. Having said that I expect most DMs that allow content from pre 2024 PHB will allow the 2014 PHB subclasses that have not been updated in the 2024 PHB.
Just finished 4 modules starting at Lvl 5 with a 2024 circle of moon druid at GameholeCon. I'm calling it a success. In particular:
The 6 or 8 forms limit in Tier 2 didn't seem too constraining, though I can see it might for others. Moon druid may not min/max to the most dpr or hpr, but it was pretty fun. I enjoyed using bonus action to switch to bat and find invisible enemy, then action to light it up with Wisp. And using the new feymiliar owl form to deliver a huge cure wounds while I was in melee or not able to get to a party member. Haven't played at level 9 yet, but the updated Grasping Vine and Giant Insect look fun, too. Will be interesting to see the beasts in the new MM. A higher to-hit Giant Scorp with 3 attacks + Fount/CME could be fun and sort of keep up with the Valor Bards with 4 attacks + CME at level 10 or Wizards with 5 scorching rays + CME. And, of course, with goodberry and elementalism, no need for rations or waterskins...
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/133673411
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
I love Elf for Trance feature as well. Use the extra time for a couple of short rest to get the familiar and extra 1st level slot for an extra wild shape at 5th.
One thing I think the 2024 druid got wrong was eliminating elemental wild shape for Moon druids. I realize that ALL druids now get Elemental & Improved Elemental Fury, which is good because I think druids need to incorporate more elemental features. But given that the 2024 Moon druid can no longer wild shape into an Earth Elemental at Level 10 and get the 124 HP of the earth elemental (which most people thought was OP in the 2014 Moon druid) but instead just gets temp HP = 3 x their druid level, I don’t understand why a Moon druid’s just taking the form of an elemental at level 10 was eliminated given that the HP mechanic was changed (nerfed).
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
We do not have the MM yet. Maybe they sneaked in some elemental beasts of the appropriate CR in there.
That would be fun.
Don't think there's any such thing as an elemental beast, but maybe you're right
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Another reason they should not have eliminated elemental forms is because you can now 4th level polymorph on yourself to Giant Ape. Drop concentration. Now you have 157 temp hp in caster form and can wreak even more damage than an elemental with nukes plus a different concentration spell. Now THAT is OP. At least until they nerf it or the new MM is released and Giant Ape has 57 hp.
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
That is one interpretation of the rules, not one id go with but I can see how people read it that way.
Which part? The new polymorph spell or dropping concentration? I admit, it's not unique to druid, as just about every caster gets it.
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
Keeping the temp hit points when you drop concentration. IMO the general rule of temp hit points is overridden by the specific rule of concentration and spell duration. This is not just polymorph and concertation, its that a spells effect ends including the temp hit points when the duration is up whether that is based on a time limit with for example armor of agathys or dropping concentration on polymorph. Temp hit points that are delivered via a instantaneous effect whether its a feat, class ability or a spell like false life last per the temp hit points general rule.
Definitely confusing on their part. I thought the temp hp rule about lasting until they are depleted or long rest would override the concentration description. It does seem OP to have done it this way, but they did, and didn't bother to resolve it in either place. Needs a clarification for sure.
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
Would the result of a wizard at level 7 using a level 4 spell with tons of other uses being able to polymorph into a giant ape, drop concentration and get 157 temp hit points make sense for the game as a 4th level spell when power word fortify a 7th level spell on a more appropriate class for granting temp hit point only delivers 120. If the answer is no, I think you know what the intent is and how the rules should be read. Though i am sure right now there are multiple youtube creators trying to hustle up a $ by claiming otherwise, so you can listen to their arguments for why I am wrong if you want.
Like I said, seems OP, but I didn't write the rules. Easy for them to errata the intent.
Stopped playing AD&D in '82, came back to 5e during COVID. Good times.
Sure, but everyone had to make a judgement call until then. I have given my opinion on it, but I won't say i am right, I think i am, but I have been wrong before. If you want to hear the other side of this and their reasoning behind it, it's out there on YouTube. Use whichever reasoning you like to fit how you want to run it.