So... I have this character who is a Battlemaster Fighter. Currently level 3. I asked the DM and he said the game will most likely go up to level 9-10, which fits with my goals.
The character is really obsessed with the gods of the world. Thus, since creating her, I wanted to multiclass at some point to a "divine" class. The idea of a Paladin fit more, so I put my Charisma higher than the Wisdom. In other words, Cleric is not an option. The reason I'm no longer aiming for a Paladin is that we already have a Cleric and a Paladin in the group. And, tbh, Paladin-Fighter isn't a great multiclass. Especially not with this character in this campaign.
So I thought of my other options. With only Str and Cha being above 13, most of the multiclass options were out. I had Warlock, Bard, Sorcerer, Barbarian and Paladin. I messed with the casters idea for a while but eventually decided that it doesn't fit (even though both Warlock and Sorcerer have a "divine" option). That's when I noticed a subclass I've ignored in the past. The Zealot Barbarian. It fits my character perfectly, and although I didn't plan for this, so does the class.
TL;DR: Going to multiclass from Battlemaster Fighter into Zealot Barbarian. Currently level 3, going to reach level 9-10 probably.
So what are my options?
Fighter 3/Barbarian 6-7 + Near the end, another rage per long rest. + Fast movement, the character doesn't wear heavy armour anyway. + Higher damage from Divine Fury feature. + Fanatical Focus feature. + Possibly an advantage on initiative rolls. - Only one ASI, not anytime soon. - Least HP healed from Second Wind. - Long wait before Extra Attack.
Fighter 4/Barbarian 5-6 + Two ASI. + Fast Movement. + Higher damage from Divine Fury. + Possible Fanatical Fury feature. + More HP from Second Wind. - Not sure that will get the 4th rage. - Long wait before Extra Attack.
Fighter 6-7/Baribarian 3 + Two ASI. + Fastest gain of Extra Attack. + Highest HP healed from Second Wind. + Possibly extra 2 manoeuvres and an extra superiority die. + Possibly Know your Enemy feature. - No Fast Movement. - Divine Fury deals the least damage. - No Fanatical Focus.
Fighter 5-6/Barbarian 4 ++ Possible 3 ASI. + Extra Attack still relatively fast. + High HP healed on Second Wind. + More Divine Fury damage. - No second ability from either subclass. - No Fast Movement.
So, after all that, some more information: The party is currently the Fighter, a War Domain Cleric, Necromancy Wizard and a Paladin (no subclass yet). My Fighter also has the Shield Master feat and wields a longsword (not going to change). Duelling Fighting Style. Manoeuvres are Riposte, Menacing Attack and Disarming Attack. Considering the above, you can understand why ASI and more STR is important (she currently has 16). Better shoves from Shield Master, higher DC for manoeuvres and better to hit and damage.
Lastly, the questions! Although I will most likely choose based on the narrative, which option of the four above (or another?) would you choose? Why? Secondly, in what order would you take each level?
Single class fighter ftw! You get good stuff all the way up to and including level 10. And your extra feats can do quite a bit of what you’re trying to accomplish through multi-classing.
If you want your character to be religious, that can just be an rp choice. They don’t have to have levels in some divine class, just play them saying prayers and calling upon their god. Flavor your battle master maneuvers as divine intervention.
Single class fighter ftw! You get good stuff all the way up to and including level 10. And your extra feats can do quite a bit of what you’re trying to accomplish through multi-classing.
If you want your character to be religious, that can just be an rp choice. They don’t have to have levels in some divine class, just play them saying prayers and calling upon their god. Flavor your battle master maneuvers as divine intervention.
How would you accomplish it with feats and gain more than lose?
As for roleplaying, I'm already playing her as a religious person. I want the Barbarian for the rage ability, and the rest is also good. The indomitable and subclass features aren't as exciting. It's true I don't need a divine class to be religious, but I want smth to enforce it. It's not a question of if anymore.
Depending on whether you are going to be a No Armor (Barabarian Unarmored Defense) or Medium Armor Barbarian, I think the ASI's are way more valuable that few a additional points of damage. If you go unarmored, definetely go to least level 4 on both races to get these ASI's.
I always felt that Divine Zealot was kind of meh, but going to level 4 in Barbarian will also increase your Radiant/Necrotic damage by 1-point (half your Barbarian level), which does not sound like much, but its the add on for getting that extra ASI at 4.
Personally, I would personally relly more heavily on Fighter than Barbarian, because of the ASI or Feats.. .but Zealot Barbarian gets Fanatic Focus at Level 6, which is basically an infinite use Indomitable from the the Fighter at level 9, and even then, the Fighter has a limited number of uses between Long Rests. Your damage will increase somewhat quicker as a Barbarian, and you'll have more HP, but getting your Strength and / or CON is kind of important as a Tank so there's that trade off
As mentioned above by Xalthu, you can be a devout religious person in personality without necessarily needing the Gods to provide Divine favor or benefits. the Loss of 3-levels in Fighter would mean the difference of 2-ASI's and access to your second attack if you instead went straight to level 6 in Fighter. Simply making it a personality quirk, or taking Alcolyte Background could help to enforce this. Ordinarily I would say take the Magic Initiate for Cleric, but obviously your Wisdom is too low for this to be beneficial to make it useful in most game play scenarios (although thaumatology is one GREAT cantrip that could easily be used to convey the VOICE of faith in any scenario)..
The extra benefits of going multi classing may or may not beneficial enough to warrant it for some builds, but personally Barbarian and Fighter are an excellent Mix. Rage is an excellent damage mitigation, and being able to rage more often is great, especially if you have two Healers in the group that keep you conscious during each Rage. Whether its worth going 1-level versus 3-levels in the other class is where I would weigh the balance at, but because you want that Divine Zealot sub-class, I would say at minimum Level 4 for the ASI in both classes.
If you're all about that rage (and why wouldn't you be), then I was definitely wrong about feats getting you there. With no scores above a 13 (I'm guessing this includes dex and con) you're going to have to take off your chain mail and take a hit to AC to pull off raging. Assuming you have a 12 in both, if you're unarmored and keep that shield, that's a 14 AC. Medium armor would take you to a 17, which actually isn't too bad, I guess, though its only going higher with magic. So unless you find some, those CR 9 and 10 monsters at the end of the campaign will be hitting you a lot. Just something to keep in mind.
I'd say stick with fighter up through 5, that second attack is a huge benefit and you don't want to delay it. Then swap to barb. I wouldn't bother with 5th in barb, since the extra attacks don't stack. The extra move is nice, but I'd rate one more asi from fighter higher than 10 feet of movement (personal opinion). So fighter 5, barb to 4, then switch back to fighter.
The stats are currently 16, 12, 12, 11, 11, 16. Also, for world-building reasons, the character doesn't have proficiency in heavy armour anyway.
Indeed, that rage is important. First off, since she doesn't have as much HP as a front liner would like to have, the resistance will be useful. Secondly, the damage bonus is nice. The big take, however, is the advantage on Strength checks, such as the Athletics required for shoving people around with the shield. At the second level, the Dex saves advantage will be great, in addition to the bonus from Shield Master.
The big question is whether a second attack is better than all those benefits. Should I take the 5th level in Fighter first or take the first Barb when reaching character level 5? I thought about going immediately, but that seems like a bad choice. The +1 to Str mod here is important for too many core features of this character, including the Athletics for shoves and DC for manoeuvres.
As a melee character, that second attack will be clutch for being useful in the frontline.. also.. with those stats, stick to Medium Armor lol.
That 16 that you have in Charisma is really a waste for both Fighter and Bararian... there really isn't a lot of subclasses that could make use of that for either class, so you may want to talk to your DM about doing something that stat or how you can make use of it in both a role-playing approach and gameplay. Seeing your stats, I would actually be pressed to go have gone with fighter / Pali or warlock multiclass. I'm sure you'll find a use for it as a character, but what what Charisma skills do you have?
The character concept was planned to a Paladin, as I stated originally, which is why the Cha is so high. It doesn't really bother me that it is so, the only stat I wish was higher is Dex, and on that matter, I originally hoped spears were Finesse (I knew they weren't, it just fit my original character concept, which had changed a lot since then). Roleplay-wise, the character is quite charismatic, at least how I see it. Sadly, the character concept required a lot of skills, and Fighters only get two, so... the only Cha skill she has is Intimidation (which is often used with Str, I know). So, while it became a "thrown" stat, I don't really have a problem with it. Path of The Berserker would have been cool to take (and I love the subclass), but the Cha feature is at level 10 so... not smth this character would reach. It's not optimised, perhaps, but it's more fitting this way.
So it seems like it’s going to be an extra attack vs getting some barb features. This seems like one of those cases where there’s not really a right or wrong choice, and no matter which one, you’ll have times come up you wish you’d gone the other way. But it seems like either will be fun, so don’t stress.
Also, I can’t stop myself from trying to put that 16 to use. I know you rejected it, but a celestial warlock could be pretty fun. Won’t help you in melee, that’s certain, but you get sacred flame(and light if you need it) for free to give you better ranged options than you’ll have with anything else. A bit of healing to throw around in case the cleric goes down (the pally can’t heal from range like celestial) and pick up a utility spell (expeditious retreat can get you that movement) or two (or hellish rebuke, killer for a melee type). Attack your enemies with a sword conjured for you by the gods. Could really be interesting with a fighter.
I think you can easily make this work, and here's how!
First, you have to make peace with the fact that you'll be going mostly fighter, because it's just straight up unacceptable to wait until lvl 8 of the campaign to get your extra attack, near the end. That said, you want to ultimately go for the 6 fighter 4 barbarian split. Honestly, you only give up a BM's "know your enemy" and extra die and maneuver, but getting an extra ASI is a big deal. This way, your character gets 3 ASIs, either to shore up your weaknesses in stats, or cap your main stat and pick a useful feat.
Keep with fighter until 5, then go barbarian for 2 levels. at 7, you'll have Reckless Attack, so even if you're not raging, access to on-demand advantage is powerful. From there, you can choose to either get to 3 for unlocking zealot, or fighter 6 for your next ASI. Everything else can be decided on a formative basis, you can decide based on how fights have been going for you.
So it seems like it’s going to be an extra attack vs getting some barb features. This seems like one of those cases where there’s not really a right or wrong choice, and no matter which one, you’ll have times come up you wish you’d gone the other way. But it seems like either will be fun, so don’t stress.
Also, I can’t stop myself from trying to put that 16 to use. I know you rejected it, but a celestial warlock could be pretty fun. Won’t help you in melee, that’s certain, but you get sacred flame(and light if you need it) for free to give you better ranged options than you’ll have with anything else. A bit of healing to throw around in case the cleric goes down (the pally can’t heal from range like celestial) and pick up a utility spell (expeditious retreat can get you that movement) or two (or hellish rebuke, killer for a melee type). Attack your enemies with a sword conjured for you by the gods. Could really be interesting with a fighter.
Interestingly, the sword she's using was given to her by the gods. Or, at the very least, it's a magical sword she believes was given to her by them. I originally thought the Divine Soul Sorcerer was better, but maybe that's not 100% true. Now that you put it that way, it certainly looks interesting. Perhaps I'll give it some more thought if I'm going to take at least one more level in Fighter before multiclassing anyway.
So... I have this character who is a Battlemaster Fighter. Currently level 3. I asked the DM and he said the game will most likely go up to level 9-10, which fits with my goals.
The character is really obsessed with the gods of the world. Thus, since creating her, I wanted to multiclass at some point to a "divine" class. The idea of a Paladin fit more, so I put my Charisma higher than the Wisdom. In other words, Cleric is not an option. The reason I'm no longer aiming for a Paladin is that we already have a Cleric and a Paladin in the group. And, tbh, Paladin-Fighter isn't a great multiclass. Especially not with this character in this campaign.
So I thought of my other options. With only Str and Cha being above 13, most of the multiclass options were out. I had Warlock, Bard, Sorcerer, Barbarian and Paladin.
I messed with the casters idea for a while but eventually decided that it doesn't fit (even though both Warlock and Sorcerer have a "divine" option). That's when I noticed a subclass I've ignored in the past. The Zealot Barbarian. It fits my character perfectly, and although I didn't plan for this, so does the class.
TL;DR: Going to multiclass from Battlemaster Fighter into Zealot Barbarian. Currently level 3, going to reach level 9-10 probably.
So what are my options?
Fighter 3/Barbarian 6-7
+ Near the end, another rage per long rest.
+ Fast movement, the character doesn't wear heavy armour anyway.
+ Higher damage from Divine Fury feature.
+ Fanatical Focus feature.
+ Possibly an advantage on initiative rolls.
- Only one ASI, not anytime soon.
- Least HP healed from Second Wind.
- Long wait before Extra Attack.
Fighter 4/Barbarian 5-6
+ Two ASI.
+ Fast Movement.
+ Higher damage from Divine Fury.
+ Possible Fanatical Fury feature.
+ More HP from Second Wind.
- Not sure that will get the 4th rage.
- Long wait before Extra Attack.
Fighter 6-7/Baribarian 3
+ Two ASI.
+ Fastest gain of Extra Attack.
+ Highest HP healed from Second Wind.
+ Possibly extra 2 manoeuvres and an extra superiority die.
+ Possibly Know your Enemy feature.
- No Fast Movement.
- Divine Fury deals the least damage.
- No Fanatical Focus.
Fighter 5-6/Barbarian 4
++ Possible 3 ASI.
+ Extra Attack still relatively fast.
+ High HP healed on Second Wind.
+ More Divine Fury damage.
- No second ability from either subclass.
- No Fast Movement.
So, after all that, some more information:
The party is currently the Fighter, a War Domain Cleric, Necromancy Wizard and a Paladin (no subclass yet).
My Fighter also has the Shield Master feat and wields a longsword (not going to change). Duelling Fighting Style.
Manoeuvres are Riposte, Menacing Attack and Disarming Attack.
Considering the above, you can understand why ASI and more STR is important (she currently has 16). Better shoves from Shield Master, higher DC for manoeuvres and better to hit and damage.
Lastly, the questions! Although I will most likely choose based on the narrative, which option of the four above (or another?) would you choose? Why? Secondly, in what order would you take each level?
Varielky
Single class fighter ftw! You get good stuff all the way up to and including level 10. And your extra feats can do quite a bit of what you’re trying to accomplish through multi-classing.
If you want your character to be religious, that can just be an rp choice. They don’t have to have levels in some divine class, just play them saying prayers and calling upon their god. Flavor your battle master maneuvers as divine intervention.
How would you accomplish it with feats and gain more than lose?
As for roleplaying, I'm already playing her as a religious person. I want the Barbarian for the rage ability, and the rest is also good. The indomitable and subclass features aren't as exciting. It's true I don't need a divine class to be religious, but I want smth to enforce it. It's not a question of if anymore.
Varielky
Depending on whether you are going to be a No Armor (Barabarian Unarmored Defense) or Medium Armor Barbarian, I think the ASI's are way more valuable that few a additional points of damage. If you go unarmored, definetely go to least level 4 on both races to get these ASI's.
I always felt that Divine Zealot was kind of meh, but going to level 4 in Barbarian will also increase your Radiant/Necrotic damage by 1-point (half your Barbarian level), which does not sound like much, but its the add on for getting that extra ASI at 4.
Personally, I would personally relly more heavily on Fighter than Barbarian, because of the ASI or Feats.. .but Zealot Barbarian gets Fanatic Focus at Level 6, which is basically an infinite use Indomitable from the the Fighter at level 9, and even then, the Fighter has a limited number of uses between Long Rests. Your damage will increase somewhat quicker as a Barbarian, and you'll have more HP, but getting your Strength and / or CON is kind of important as a Tank so there's that trade off
As mentioned above by Xalthu, you can be a devout religious person in personality without necessarily needing the Gods to provide Divine favor or benefits. the Loss of 3-levels in Fighter would mean the difference of 2-ASI's and access to your second attack if you instead went straight to level 6 in Fighter. Simply making it a personality quirk, or taking Alcolyte Background could help to enforce this. Ordinarily I would say take the Magic Initiate for Cleric, but obviously your Wisdom is too low for this to be beneficial to make it useful in most game play scenarios (although thaumatology is one GREAT cantrip that could easily be used to convey the VOICE of faith in any scenario)..
The extra benefits of going multi classing may or may not beneficial enough to warrant it for some builds, but personally Barbarian and Fighter are an excellent Mix. Rage is an excellent damage mitigation, and being able to rage more often is great, especially if you have two Healers in the group that keep you conscious during each Rage. Whether its worth going 1-level versus 3-levels in the other class is where I would weigh the balance at, but because you want that Divine Zealot sub-class, I would say at minimum Level 4 for the ASI in both classes.
If you're all about that rage (and why wouldn't you be), then I was definitely wrong about feats getting you there. With no scores above a 13 (I'm guessing this includes dex and con) you're going to have to take off your chain mail and take a hit to AC to pull off raging. Assuming you have a 12 in both, if you're unarmored and keep that shield, that's a 14 AC. Medium armor would take you to a 17, which actually isn't too bad, I guess, though its only going higher with magic. So unless you find some, those CR 9 and 10 monsters at the end of the campaign will be hitting you a lot. Just something to keep in mind.
I'd say stick with fighter up through 5, that second attack is a huge benefit and you don't want to delay it. Then swap to barb. I wouldn't bother with 5th in barb, since the extra attacks don't stack. The extra move is nice, but I'd rate one more asi from fighter higher than 10 feet of movement (personal opinion). So fighter 5, barb to 4, then switch back to fighter.
The stats are currently 16, 12, 12, 11, 11, 16. Also, for world-building reasons, the character doesn't have proficiency in heavy armour anyway.
Indeed, that rage is important. First off, since she doesn't have as much HP as a front liner would like to have, the resistance will be useful. Secondly, the damage bonus is nice. The big take, however, is the advantage on Strength checks, such as the Athletics required for shoving people around with the shield. At the second level, the Dex saves advantage will be great, in addition to the bonus from Shield Master.
The big question is whether a second attack is better than all those benefits. Should I take the 5th level in Fighter first or take the first Barb when reaching character level 5? I thought about going immediately, but that seems like a bad choice. The +1 to Str mod here is important for too many core features of this character, including the Athletics for shoves and DC for manoeuvres.
Varielky
As a melee character, that second attack will be clutch for being useful in the frontline.. also.. with those stats, stick to Medium Armor lol.
That 16 that you have in Charisma is really a waste for both Fighter and Bararian... there really isn't a lot of subclasses that could make use of that for either class, so you may want to talk to your DM about doing something that stat or how you can make use of it in both a role-playing approach and gameplay. Seeing your stats, I would actually be pressed to go have gone with fighter / Pali or warlock multiclass. I'm sure you'll find a use for it as a character, but what what Charisma skills do you have?
The character concept was planned to a Paladin, as I stated originally, which is why the Cha is so high. It doesn't really bother me that it is so, the only stat I wish was higher is Dex, and on that matter, I originally hoped spears were Finesse (I knew they weren't, it just fit my original character concept, which had changed a lot since then). Roleplay-wise, the character is quite charismatic, at least how I see it. Sadly, the character concept required a lot of skills, and Fighters only get two, so... the only Cha skill she has is Intimidation (which is often used with Str, I know). So, while it became a "thrown" stat, I don't really have a problem with it. Path of The Berserker would have been cool to take (and I love the subclass), but the Cha feature is at level 10 so... not smth this character would reach. It's not optimised, perhaps, but it's more fitting this way.
Varielky
So it seems like it’s going to be an extra attack vs getting some barb features. This seems like one of those cases where there’s not really a right or wrong choice, and no matter which one, you’ll have times come up you wish you’d gone the other way. But it seems like either will be fun, so don’t stress.
Also, I can’t stop myself from trying to put that 16 to use. I know you rejected it, but a celestial warlock could be pretty fun. Won’t help you in melee, that’s certain, but you get sacred flame(and light if you need it) for free to give you better ranged options than you’ll have with anything else. A bit of healing to throw around in case the cleric goes down (the pally can’t heal from range like celestial) and pick up a utility spell (expeditious retreat can get you that movement) or two (or hellish rebuke, killer for a melee type). Attack your enemies with a sword conjured for you by the gods. Could really be interesting with a fighter.
I think you can easily make this work, and here's how!
First, you have to make peace with the fact that you'll be going mostly fighter, because it's just straight up unacceptable to wait until lvl 8 of the campaign to get your extra attack, near the end. That said, you want to ultimately go for the 6 fighter 4 barbarian split. Honestly, you only give up a BM's "know your enemy" and extra die and maneuver, but getting an extra ASI is a big deal. This way, your character gets 3 ASIs, either to shore up your weaknesses in stats, or cap your main stat and pick a useful feat.
Keep with fighter until 5, then go barbarian for 2 levels. at 7, you'll have Reckless Attack, so even if you're not raging, access to on-demand advantage is powerful. From there, you can choose to either get to 3 for unlocking zealot, or fighter 6 for your next ASI. Everything else can be decided on a formative basis, you can decide based on how fights have been going for you.
Interestingly, the sword she's using was given to her by the gods. Or, at the very least, it's a magical sword she believes was given to her by them. I originally thought the Divine Soul Sorcerer was better, but maybe that's not 100% true. Now that you put it that way, it certainly looks interesting. Perhaps I'll give it some more thought if I'm going to take at least one more level in Fighter before multiclassing anyway.
Varielky