I recently heard someone say they thought the riposte battle master maneuver was “underwhelming“. I was a bit taken aback by that opinion. I understand that it offers nothing more than raw damage, but in that regard it is one of the best, if not the best, options available. I’m curious what others might think of this maneuver.
Before the advent of Tasha's, you could argue it was top tier. However, even then you could have argued there were better options for your superiority die.
You can arguably rely more on using Brace over Riposte. Brace requires a target to get into range, while Riposte requires your Target miss first. In certain fights, with certain builds, your Target will likely never miss, such as a GWM fighter against an adult red dragon.
But we're talking about using a die to gain a hit where you otherwise wouldn't have had. In that regard, for damage purposes, precise attack is probably the best maneuver. You can make an extra attack, which you won't be guaranteed will land, or you can ensure you turn a slight miss into a guaranteed hit.
Main problem against Riposte and even Brace is reliability. You need to use your SD once the trigger is met (someone miss you or someone enter in your range), before you roll to hit, and sometimes you’ll miss it entirely wasting your reaction and one SD. It’s a high risk high reward maneuver.
Other top-notch maneuvers like Menacing Attack or Trip Attack are still reliant on enemies failing their saving throw, but at least you add 1d8 extra damage in case they succeed.
That’s why I like more reliable maneuvers like Distracting Attack or even Parry. It will work 100% of the time.
Creatures will always move into your range, so Brace is a good option imo. Anything that gives you extra attacks is good. I also like Riposte, but obviously, going to be a better option on a sword and board fighter, than one using a 2h weapon. Creatures will miss you. Even creatures with a high plus to hit. We roll poorly sometimes, missing when the odds say we should hit. The DM rolls poorly sometimes also. If you have a 22 AC, then even a +11 only has a 50% chance of hitting you. Not everything you are fighting is an adult red dragon. ;)
Main problem against Riposte and even Brace is reliability. You need to use your SD once the trigger is met (someone miss you or someone enter in your range), before you roll to hit, and sometimes you’ll miss it entirely wasting your reaction and one SD. It’s a high risk high reward maneuver.
Other top-notch maneuvers like Menacing Attack or Trip Attack are still reliant on enemies failing their saving throw, but at least you add 1d8 extra damage in case they succeed.
That’s why I like more reliable maneuvers like Distracting Attack or even Parry. It will work 100% of the time.
You make a good case for Distracting and Parry. Yes, they do work 100% of the time, but the advantage of Menacing or Trip is how powerful they are. Frightened condition is extremely debilitating for a monster. Prone means advantage for everything attacking them within 5 ft. So there is risk that the creature will make the save and not be frightened or prone, but a big payoff when they fail. And I think we all agree, the Battle Master is going to choose which maneuvers they use, based on the foe they're fighting. Against Cgarciao's adult red dragon, who is likely to make the saving throw, you don't try to use certain maneuvers. Heck, you can't even trip a huge or gargantuan creature.
It’s exactly that, Torvald. Sometimes you are fighting a really powerful creature that will surely resist your main maneuvers, so having a 100% reliable maneuver in the back pocket is always handy. Give free advantage to the next GWM / SS / Crit-fisher Smiter is always welcome.
I really like Riposte when I'm a rogue/fighter. It allows me to use my uncanny dodge when i am hit or deal sneak attack damage if they miss.
This. On a vanilla fighter, Riposte only deals your weapon and superiority dice (under normal circumstances), but when backed with Sneak Attack or a Smite (Divine, Eldritch or a spell), it offers a lot of potential damage.
Frightened and prone are great conditions to possibly inflict, but my favorite in most cases is "dead."
I love anything that gives a reaction attack; while it sucks if you trigger it and miss, it's rarely a bad thing to have.
The main reason I prefer Riposte to Brace is that you can get a reaction attack when an enemy enters your reach by taking the Polearm Master feat. Okay, so it doesn't add any extra damage, but you can also use it as many times as the trigger is met in an adventuring day, not to mention it gives you a decent bonus action attack as well. Riposte may have a random-ish trigger, but your average Fighter is going to have a pretty high AC (especially if you do the spear and shield polearm master combo) so there's a pretty good chance an enemy will miss you, and in combination with Polearm Master you have two ways to trigger a reaction attack so a very high chance of getting in one or more in every fight.
That said, other manoeuvres are arguably better for the sheer damage they can cause; a reaction attack lets you do a modest amount of extra damage, but if you manage to knock an enemy prone then not only will you have a better chance of hitting with any remaining attacks, so will some or all of your party if they can attack before the enemy gets back up. You could even help that to take longer by grappling the enemy while it's down (can't get up with zero movement). Every attack that hits thanks to that advantage is extra damage that you've caused, and it can add quickly to far more than a reaction attack would have done.
There's also Commander's Strike (trade an attack and your bonus action to let an ally attack as a reaction); this is a little costly to you, but when combined with a Rogue the extra damage for the attack can be far higher than what you yourself would have done.
Overall though I think it's just good to have a mix; Riposte, Trip Attack and Commander's Strike are three of my favourites for initial picks, and you get to choose more later.
Also quick note Rexir2; if you accidentally double post, you can click "tools" in the bottom right of the post to find the delete option.
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Man, I wish Commander’s Strike was cheaper, but personally I don’t like it. You are basically trading one Superiority Dice + one of your attacks + your bonus action + your ally’s reaction for an off-turn attack. Of course we could argue this is good for a Rogue or a Paladin, but I think it’s too costly — and as always, subject to miss; same issue with Riposte and Brace.
Man, I wish Commander’s Strike was cheaper, but personally I don’t like it. You are basically trading one Superiority Dice + one of your attacks + your bonus action + your ally’s reaction for an off-turn attack. Of course we could argue this is good for a Rogue or a Paladin, but I think it’s too costly — and as always, subject to miss; same issue with Riposte and Brace.
So don't miss. 😉
You're not wrong though, it definitely depends on your party composition and what other things you can combo it with; you want to use it when your ally can get advantage, e.g- by flanking (if using those rules), a Vengeance Paladin using Oath of Enmity, target is affected by Faerie Fire, someone sends a familiar to help and so-on. This is true of a lot of the best combos though; you want to work together to setup the conditions. It's even sweeter if your intended target is paralyzed or unconscious, as a Rogue getting two auto-crits with sneak attack in a round is going to seriously ruin that target's day.
Also worth remembering it's not just melee attacks, it can be used to do stuff at range if you're not much of a ranged character yourself; e.g- let the party's Ranger fire more shots at a distant enemy you really need to take out quickly (spellcaster or such).
One of the things I love about Battle Master's manoeuvres is that none of them are actually bad; some are easier to make use of, but you can make a lot of really fun (and quite different) builds around using different sets of them, whether you want to be more peerless warrior, skilled commander etc. The question shouldn't be "which manoeuvre is best?", it should be "which manoeuvres will let me build what I want?".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I recently heard someone say they thought the riposte battle master maneuver was “underwhelming“. I was a bit taken aback by that opinion. I understand that it offers nothing more than raw damage, but in that regard it is one of the best, if not the best, options available. I’m curious what others might think of this maneuver.
Well, I’m honestly not familiar with the added Tasha’s options.
3rd round pick?! So tier 3 play?! What beats it out for you?
Before the advent of Tasha's, you could argue it was top tier. However, even then you could have argued there were better options for your superiority die.
You can arguably rely more on using Brace over Riposte. Brace requires a target to get into range, while Riposte requires your Target miss first. In certain fights, with certain builds, your Target will likely never miss, such as a GWM fighter against an adult red dragon.
But we're talking about using a die to gain a hit where you otherwise wouldn't have had. In that regard, for damage purposes, precise attack is probably the best maneuver. You can make an extra attack, which you won't be guaranteed will land, or you can ensure you turn a slight miss into a guaranteed hit.
The choice is clear.
Main problem against Riposte and even Brace is reliability. You need to use your SD once the trigger is met (someone miss you or someone enter in your range), before you roll to hit, and sometimes you’ll miss it entirely wasting your reaction and one SD. It’s a high risk high reward maneuver.
Other top-notch maneuvers like Menacing Attack or Trip Attack are still reliant on enemies failing their saving throw, but at least you add 1d8 extra damage in case they succeed.
That’s why I like more reliable maneuvers like Distracting Attack or even Parry. It will work 100% of the time.
Creatures will always move into your range, so Brace is a good option imo. Anything that gives you extra attacks is good. I also like Riposte, but obviously, going to be a better option on a sword and board fighter, than one using a 2h weapon. Creatures will miss you. Even creatures with a high plus to hit. We roll poorly sometimes, missing when the odds say we should hit. The DM rolls poorly sometimes also. If you have a 22 AC, then even a +11 only has a 50% chance of hitting you. Not everything you are fighting is an adult red dragon. ;)
You make a good case for Distracting and Parry. Yes, they do work 100% of the time, but the advantage of Menacing or Trip is how powerful they are. Frightened condition is extremely debilitating for a monster. Prone means advantage for everything attacking them within 5 ft. So there is risk that the creature will make the save and not be frightened or prone, but a big payoff when they fail. And I think we all agree, the Battle Master is going to choose which maneuvers they use, based on the foe they're fighting. Against Cgarciao's adult red dragon, who is likely to make the saving throw, you don't try to use certain maneuvers. Heck, you can't even trip a huge or gargantuan creature.
It’s exactly that, Torvald. Sometimes you are fighting a really powerful creature that will surely resist your main maneuvers, so having a 100% reliable maneuver in the back pocket is always handy. Give free advantage to the next GWM / SS / Crit-fisher Smiter is always welcome.
I really like Riposte when I'm a rogue/fighter. It allows me to use my uncanny dodge when i am hit or deal sneak attack damage if they miss.
This. On a vanilla fighter, Riposte only deals your weapon and superiority dice (under normal circumstances), but when backed with Sneak Attack or a Smite (Divine, Eldritch or a spell), it offers a lot of potential damage.
Frightened and prone are great conditions to possibly inflict, but my favorite in most cases is "dead."
(Somehow double-posted)
I love anything that gives a reaction attack; while it sucks if you trigger it and miss, it's rarely a bad thing to have.
The main reason I prefer Riposte to Brace is that you can get a reaction attack when an enemy enters your reach by taking the Polearm Master feat. Okay, so it doesn't add any extra damage, but you can also use it as many times as the trigger is met in an adventuring day, not to mention it gives you a decent bonus action attack as well. Riposte may have a random-ish trigger, but your average Fighter is going to have a pretty high AC (especially if you do the spear and shield polearm master combo) so there's a pretty good chance an enemy will miss you, and in combination with Polearm Master you have two ways to trigger a reaction attack so a very high chance of getting in one or more in every fight.
That said, other manoeuvres are arguably better for the sheer damage they can cause; a reaction attack lets you do a modest amount of extra damage, but if you manage to knock an enemy prone then not only will you have a better chance of hitting with any remaining attacks, so will some or all of your party if they can attack before the enemy gets back up. You could even help that to take longer by grappling the enemy while it's down (can't get up with zero movement). Every attack that hits thanks to that advantage is extra damage that you've caused, and it can add quickly to far more than a reaction attack would have done.
There's also Commander's Strike (trade an attack and your bonus action to let an ally attack as a reaction); this is a little costly to you, but when combined with a Rogue the extra damage for the attack can be far higher than what you yourself would have done.
Overall though I think it's just good to have a mix; Riposte, Trip Attack and Commander's Strike are three of my favourites for initial picks, and you get to choose more later.
Also quick note Rexir2; if you accidentally double post, you can click "tools" in the bottom right of the post to find the delete option.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Man, I wish Commander’s Strike was cheaper, but personally I don’t like it. You are basically trading one Superiority Dice + one of your attacks + your bonus action + your ally’s reaction for an off-turn attack. Of course we could argue this is good for a Rogue or a Paladin, but I think it’s too costly — and as always, subject to miss; same issue with Riposte and Brace.
So don't miss. 😉
You're not wrong though, it definitely depends on your party composition and what other things you can combo it with; you want to use it when your ally can get advantage, e.g- by flanking (if using those rules), a Vengeance Paladin using Oath of Enmity, target is affected by Faerie Fire, someone sends a familiar to help and so-on. This is true of a lot of the best combos though; you want to work together to setup the conditions. It's even sweeter if your intended target is paralyzed or unconscious, as a Rogue getting two auto-crits with sneak attack in a round is going to seriously ruin that target's day.
Also worth remembering it's not just melee attacks, it can be used to do stuff at range if you're not much of a ranged character yourself; e.g- let the party's Ranger fire more shots at a distant enemy you really need to take out quickly (spellcaster or such).
One of the things I love about Battle Master's manoeuvres is that none of them are actually bad; some are easier to make use of, but you can make a lot of really fun (and quite different) builds around using different sets of them, whether you want to be more peerless warrior, skilled commander etc. The question shouldn't be "which manoeuvre is best?", it should be "which manoeuvres will let me build what I want?".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.