I am very interested in starting my new campaign as an echo knight because I think the play style would be very fun, but the party I am with does not have much in terms of support. Would it be smart to have my echo knight be multi-classed with a cleric? I was thinking upgrading mostly the fighter then once I reach about level 5 start dipping a level or 2 into cleric (either life or grave since they offer buffs to healing spells from the get-go). Would this be feasible, and if so how would you suggest leveling up from here?
And a bunch of Domains will already give you heavy armor proficiency, so you really only need the fighter dip if you just really want to play a fighter. Sure, the two attacks per round is nice, but I do just fine with Sacred Flame and Spiritual Weapon. The best parts of the fighter dip are Second Wind and Action Surge, because they just reinforce your support capability. Second Wind is like an up-leveled Healing Word without using a spell slot. And for all those times when you need to attack AND you need to throw a heal and you can't decide which is the priority in this round - Action Surge lets you do both!
And every Domain has something that'll make you a more effective Tank Medic! Grave lets you break crits. Light lets you impose disadvantage on your enemy's attack rolls. Forge lets you boost your armor.
But if you're gonna go main fighter and dip into cleric, go for 8 levels of cleric. Seriously. It's worth it. You'll still get your level 10 fighter class ability, you'll still get Indomitable, you'll still get 3 attacks per round, but you'll also get a damage boost to either a melee attack or your cantrips, AND you'll get the full range of spell you'll need like Death Ward, and Mass Healing Word, and Revivify, and so on.
Cleric is the best class to multi-class into or out of.
You can definitely do that. It's going to require a lot of your stats, though - you'll want a lot of Wisdom, Constitution, and either Strength or Dexterity, and multiclassing limits the number of ASIs that you can get. Also, your action economy is very tight as an Echo Knight, which limits your opportunities to actually "support." Taking your Attack action off to heal, or your summon/teleport bonus action with Echo off to heal, is a tricky trade. So you'd ideally like to find a way to support without eating into your action economy too much.
To that end, I actually recommend the Twilight Domain. You can use your Channel Divinity (starting at level 2) to create a zone of "healing" though temporary HP that can create an immense amount of sustain for your party. That, combined with the above-average mobility of the Echo Knight, would allow you to reach targets in need of support while you also do Echo Knight things.
From there, it's up to you. Cleric has a lot to offer in terms of higher-level spells: the Restorations, Revivify, Spirit Guardians, etc. Fighter gets you more attacks/burst damage, Echo utility for scouting, and ASIs. Cleric 6 is a breakpoint I'd like to hit at some point on this character if I were playing him or her to a high level, as having two Channel Divinities per short rest doubles your opportunities to hand out temp hp/cleanse charm or frightened effects.
Finally, remember that another way to support your allies is to prevent enemies from attacking them. Crowd control options like Sentinel, Mage Slayer, etc. are decent ways for Fighters to defend their party, as is bursting down targets with the impressive burst damage output available to Echo Knights (you know, kill the enemies so they can't deal any more damage).
If I wanted to build a ranged/DEX/archery sort of Fighter with a bit of Cleric, is there some advantage to starting out as a Fighter? (This would be my first or almost first time multi-classing.) One reason I might want a little Cleric is to get DarkVision from the Twilight Domain, giving me the option to pick a race/lineage that doesn't have DarkVision and I might not want to stumble around in the dark for too long without DarkVision, even though there are torches and potentially other ways to get enough light to see.
Also, I have very limited experience with playing a martial class and exactly none with Fighter. I'm both a little concerned that I don't know what the heck I'm doing with the Fighter class and with Weapons and also that I could have a lack of interesting things to do outside of combat (I'm sort of blanking on how to roleplay a fighter, in a fun way): I'm even a bit concerned that I might miss being able to cast spells (the other big reason for considering a Cleric, or some other class that can cast spells multiclass).
I just watched the Dungeon Dudes YouTube Video of playing a Battle Master seems like it might be fun and interesting, especially the Pusher Attack (a different sort of battlefield control than I am used to). (also Rune Knight, and a couple of other Fighter subclasses seem like they would be fun and interesting too, but I think I'm likely interested in Battle Master for this one). What else can you suggest or tell me (emphasis on making it fun)?
I've tried a Cleric/Fighter archer before, and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I started with War Cleric, then took levels in either cleric or fighter depending on what I felt like I was missing at the time. The plan of the build was to end up at War Cleric 9 / Battle Master Fighter 11, which gives 3 attacks per action and up to 5th level spells, but I didn't make it all the way to 20. Still a really fun build, though. At level 3 (War Cleric 1 / Fighter 2), you can do three attacks in a single round with Action Surge and War Priest, if you need to urgently obliterate something.
What I liked most about this sort of build though was the flexibility. If the party lacked damage, you could buff yourself with Bless or Crusader's Mantle and pick off enemies at a distance. If the party needed more support, you're still a half decent cleric with healing and defensive spells.
Sounds like a good choice. So you'd be a martial and go for melee I guess because your Echo does the attacks and you stay out of close combat? I am not sure how well Echo interacts with ranged weapons. Check out the EchoKnight FAQ for the mechanics.
Cast SpiritGuardians and use the Echo to push the targets (back) into the area of effect.
You can participate in combat with your Echo but concentrate on your spells.
I am not sure how much BonusAction ManifestEcho you need for Cleric? Therefore, the feat PAM and WarDomain might not be something for you.
Human, CustomBackground and two origin feats: MagicInitiate (e.g., Shillelagh to go entirely for WIS, Shield, Goodberry, GiftOfAlacrity, BladeWard), Lucky for saving throws, Alert to win initiative and to place your Echo well
LightDomain is awesome! Very good spell list. A Cleric with Fireball. The feature RadianceOfDawn has deals total huge damage if many targets are in the big range of 30ft and WardingFlare gives you protection as a Reaction.
WarDomain requires your BonusAction(conflict) for the extra attack but if you max WIS and use Shillelagh this might be just fine. You could hit safely and the spells are good.
Feats: WarCaster to maintain concentration; GWM if you go for two-handed 2d6 weapons
Arcana & Calligrapher'sTools from CustomBackground to scribe scrolls
Maybe dip Fighter3 and all the rest for Cleric? I am not sure when and how many levels to multiclass because Fighter5 / ExtraAttack might be attractive but too few Cleric levels make it difficult to be effective.
I am very interested in starting my new campaign as an echo knight because I think the play style would be very fun, but the party I am with does not have much in terms of support. Would it be smart to have my echo knight be multi-classed with a cleric? I was thinking upgrading mostly the fighter then once I reach about level 5 start dipping a level or 2 into cleric (either life or grave since they offer buffs to healing spells from the get-go). Would this be feasible, and if so how would you suggest leveling up from here?
Cleric is always a good choice!
Cleric is always the best choice!
And a bunch of Domains will already give you heavy armor proficiency, so you really only need the fighter dip if you just really want to play a fighter. Sure, the two attacks per round is nice, but I do just fine with Sacred Flame and Spiritual Weapon. The best parts of the fighter dip are Second Wind and Action Surge, because they just reinforce your support capability. Second Wind is like an up-leveled Healing Word without using a spell slot. And for all those times when you need to attack AND you need to throw a heal and you can't decide which is the priority in this round - Action Surge lets you do both!
And every Domain has something that'll make you a more effective Tank Medic! Grave lets you break crits. Light lets you impose disadvantage on your enemy's attack rolls. Forge lets you boost your armor.
But if you're gonna go main fighter and dip into cleric, go for 8 levels of cleric. Seriously. It's worth it. You'll still get your level 10 fighter class ability, you'll still get Indomitable, you'll still get 3 attacks per round, but you'll also get a damage boost to either a melee attack or your cantrips, AND you'll get the full range of spell you'll need like Death Ward, and Mass Healing Word, and Revivify, and so on.
Cleric is the best class
to multi-class into or out of.But that's just my 2 c.p.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
You can definitely do that. It's going to require a lot of your stats, though - you'll want a lot of Wisdom, Constitution, and either Strength or Dexterity, and multiclassing limits the number of ASIs that you can get. Also, your action economy is very tight as an Echo Knight, which limits your opportunities to actually "support." Taking your Attack action off to heal, or your summon/teleport bonus action with Echo off to heal, is a tricky trade. So you'd ideally like to find a way to support without eating into your action economy too much.
To that end, I actually recommend the Twilight Domain. You can use your Channel Divinity (starting at level 2) to create a zone of "healing" though temporary HP that can create an immense amount of sustain for your party. That, combined with the above-average mobility of the Echo Knight, would allow you to reach targets in need of support while you also do Echo Knight things.
From there, it's up to you. Cleric has a lot to offer in terms of higher-level spells: the Restorations, Revivify, Spirit Guardians, etc. Fighter gets you more attacks/burst damage, Echo utility for scouting, and ASIs. Cleric 6 is a breakpoint I'd like to hit at some point on this character if I were playing him or her to a high level, as having two Channel Divinities per short rest doubles your opportunities to hand out temp hp/cleanse charm or frightened effects.
Finally, remember that another way to support your allies is to prevent enemies from attacking them. Crowd control options like Sentinel, Mage Slayer, etc. are decent ways for Fighters to defend their party, as is bursting down targets with the impressive burst damage output available to Echo Knights (you know, kill the enemies so they can't deal any more damage).
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
If I wanted to build a ranged/DEX/archery sort of Fighter with a bit of Cleric, is there some advantage to starting out as a Fighter? (This would be my first or almost first time multi-classing.) One reason I might want a little Cleric is to get DarkVision from the Twilight Domain, giving me the option to pick a race/lineage that doesn't have DarkVision and I might not want to stumble around in the dark for too long without DarkVision, even though there are torches and potentially other ways to get enough light to see.
Also, I have very limited experience with playing a martial class and exactly none with Fighter. I'm both a little concerned that I don't know what the heck I'm doing with the Fighter class and with Weapons and also that I could have a lack of interesting things to do outside of combat (I'm sort of blanking on how to roleplay a fighter, in a fun way): I'm even a bit concerned that I might miss being able to cast spells (the other big reason for considering a Cleric, or some other class that can cast spells multiclass).
I just watched the Dungeon Dudes YouTube Video of playing a Battle Master seems like it might be fun and interesting, especially the Pusher Attack (a different sort of battlefield control than I am used to). (also Rune Knight, and a couple of other Fighter subclasses seem like they would be fun and interesting too, but I think I'm likely interested in Battle Master for this one). What else can you suggest or tell me (emphasis on making it fun)?
I've tried a Cleric/Fighter archer before, and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I started with War Cleric, then took levels in either cleric or fighter depending on what I felt like I was missing at the time. The plan of the build was to end up at War Cleric 9 / Battle Master Fighter 11, which gives 3 attacks per action and up to 5th level spells, but I didn't make it all the way to 20. Still a really fun build, though. At level 3 (War Cleric 1 / Fighter 2), you can do three attacks in a single round with Action Surge and War Priest, if you need to urgently obliterate something.
What I liked most about this sort of build though was the flexibility. If the party lacked damage, you could buff yourself with Bless or Crusader's Mantle and pick off enemies at a distance. If the party needed more support, you're still a half decent cleric with healing and defensive spells.
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Hi Jmckend.
Sounds like a good choice. So you'd be a martial and go for melee I guess because your Echo does the attacks and you stay out of close combat? I am not sure how well Echo interacts with ranged weapons. Check out the EchoKnight FAQ for the mechanics.
Maybe dip Fighter3 and all the rest for Cleric? I am not sure when and how many levels to multiclass because Fighter5 / ExtraAttack might be attractive but too few Cleric levels make it difficult to be effective.
Cheers