Okay, then now I don't understand other weapon features like Reach and Versatile. Since like the thrown option they add a different use case to the weapon which can trigger an additional feat set also.
I am going to start to use two-handed weapon Feats while using a long sword in one hand. The verbiage is that the weapon just needs to be held two-handed not that I need to be attacking with it in both hands for those Feats to work.
I really hope they build the MM around these metas to nullify all of it. The mental gymnastics of picking and choosing what rules we want to follow and which ones we don't are out of this world.
You're making a Ranged attack not a Melee one when throwing a Dagger. Same as Versatile, you're either making a one or two handed attack and how you attack dictates which Feats or abilities become active.
Okay, then now I don't understand other weapon features like Reach and Versatile. Since like the thrown option they add a different use case to the weapon which can trigger an additional feat set also.
I am going to start to use two-handed weapon Feats while using a long sword in one hand. The verbiage is that the weapon just needs to be held two-handed not that I need to be attacking with it in both hands for those Feats to work.
I really hope they build the MM around these metas to nullify all of it. The mental gymnastics of picking and choosing what rules we want to follow and which ones we don't are out of this world.
You're making a Ranged attack not a Melee one when throwing a Dagger. Same as Versatile, you're either making a one or two handed attack and how you attack dictates which Feats or abilities become active.
Yes. When you throw a dagger, you’re making a ranged attack, not a melee attack. No one’s saying otherwise.
No the question has already been answered so many times by game designers, duelling works with throwing weapon.
No, read the rules on Throw. The weapon becomes a Ranged weapon when used to throw and loses the Melee property unless it is being used in Melee.
You don't make a Melee attack when you Throw a weapon so it isn't Melee.
I'm not gonna repeat myself. You're confusing the old 2014 ruling which was unprecise with "weapon" and "attacks" as a restriction, and the designation they made for 2024. There is no way a throwed weapon becomes ranged, cause you would have to use dex throwing handaxe. And I highly doubt they would allow that for barbarian :). You're still making a ranged attack with a melee weapon using a sub specific ruling. That did not change. You don't change the general rules to make it stick to ur uderstanding of a specification. Cause it messes up elsewhere like the barbarian dex handaxe for eg.
No the question has already been answered so many times by game designers, duelling works with throwing weapon.
No, read the rules on Throw. The weapon becomes a Ranged weapon when used to throw and loses the Melee property unless it is being used in Melee.
You don't make a Melee attack when you Throw a weapon so it isn't Melee.
I'm not gonna repeat myself. You're confusing the old 2014 ruling which was unprecise with "weapon" and "attacks" as a restriction, and the designation they made for 2024. There is no way a throwed weapon becomes ranged, cause you would have to use dex throwing handaxe. And I highly doubt they would allow that for barbarian :). You're still making a ranged attack with a melee weapon using a sub specific ruling. That did not change. You don't change the general rules to make it stick to ur uderstanding of a specification. Cause it messes up elsewhere like the barbarian dex handaxe for eg.
They updated the rules recently due to abuse like this advising players not to meta etc. You're welcome to run it that way at the table but it isn't RAW.
Throwing a handaxe is a ranged attack that uses Dex not Str (Look up D20 Tests > Attack Rolls > Ability Modifier > Attack Roll Abilities).
Note that Strength is used for "Melee attack with a weapon...", Dexterity is used for "Ranged attack with a weapon".
Pick up anything, and swing it, it is a melee weapon for that attack. Pick up anything and throw it, it is a ranged weapon for that attack.
Just because the list of weapons is organized into sections called Melee and Ranged doesn't mean that everything listed under Melee is always a "Melee Weapon" and those listed under Ranged are always "Ranged Weapons". There are Melee weapons with the Thrown tag, and you can always club someone with that nice fragile bow.
It is how it is used. If you're throwing it, you benefit from those things that affect ranged attacks. If you are swinging/poking with it, then you benefit from those things affecting melee attacks.
It isn't from the weapon, it's how you use that weapon on that particular round.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
The rules for the Thrown property say that you use the same ability score when throwing that you use for a melee attack with the weapon if it’s a melee weapon, so Handaxes would use Strength. A Thrown Finesse weapon such as a Dagger could use either Strength or Dexterity. Either way, it’s still a ranged attack.
A weapon is classified as either Melee or Ranged. Wether you make a emelee or ranged attack with it doesn't change that unless noted otherwise like the Hoopak for example.
I'm not sure if I am some how misreading dueling, but I could swear I am reading that the weapon is in your hand add +2 damage. So if you throw it hasn't it left your hand? If I am confused let me know.
I'm not sure if I am some how misreading dueling, but I could swear I am reading that the weapon is in your hand add +2 damage. So if you throw it hasn't it left your hand? If I am confused let me know.
“When you’re holding a Melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.”
No misinterpretation there, yeah that does seem to be the simplest reading, and so an issue. The fact it uses “when” rather than “whilst” does give some interpretative wiggle room though.
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
I'm not sure if I am some how misreading dueling, but I could swear I am reading that the weapon is in your hand add +2 damage. So if you throw it hasn't it left your hand? If I am confused let me know.
You should still be considered wielding thrown weapons for the purpose of attack and damage rolls, so for example when you’re holding a Hand Axe in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon, wether its melee or ranged attacks.
Can I repeat what I interpreted from this thread to see if I am correct?
I have dueling, and weapon mastery with a dagger. 20 strength and 8 dex, 1st level.
Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +7; if hit, the nick property is not in use as there is no 2nd weapon
Dagger as a Thrown is range weapon but still acts like melee, so repeat the above. Then I need to draw/grab/load/etc. a new/different weapon
Dart as a Thrown is range weapon (no mastery) is to hit is -1 damage is dice + (-1)
--------------------------------
I have a dagger in each hand. So both Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +5; if hit, the nick property is in use, but lose teh +2 damage bonus from Dueling, as there is a 2nd weapon.
Can I repeat what I interpreted from this thread to see if I am correct?
I have dueling, and weapon mastery with a dagger. 20 strength and 8 dex, 1st level.
Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +7; if hit, the nick property is not in use as there is no 2nd weapon
Dagger as a Thrown is range weapon but still acts like melee, so repeat the above. Then I need to draw/grab/load/etc. a new/different weapon
Dart as a Thrown is range weapon (no mastery) is to hit is -1 damage is dice + (-1)
--------------------------------
I have a dagger in each hand. So both Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +5; if hit, the nick property is in use, but lose teh +2 damage bonus from Dueling, as there is a 2nd weapon.
How do I have this wrong?
You are not including your proficiency bonus in your "to hit" numbers.
Daggers are simple weapons, which (under 2024 rules) everyone is proficient with, so every attack with them should benefit from the character's proficiency bonus. For a level 1 character, the proficiency bonus is +2.
Your attack modifier for a weapon you're proficient with is equal to your proficiency bonus plus the modifier for the relevant ability score. In your example with the dagger, that's +2 plus +5, for a total of +7. Since the weapon has the Thrown property, that calculation is the same for both melee attacks and ranged attacks with it.
Your example with the dart is also missing the proficiency bonus — again, +2 — so when combined with your -1 dexterity modifier, the total would be +1. (Darts are also a simple weapon that all 2024 characters are proficient with.)
Your damage calculations are mostly correct, as you don't generally add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls in D&D. However, when you make a second attack using a second weapon via the Light property, you don't add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack either, so that attack's damage is just 1d4. (Having the "Two-Weapon Fighting" fighting style feat removes this penalty.)
Possibly you're getting confused by the terms "proficiency" and "mastery". They are similar words in normal English but they have very specific (and different) meanings in D&D rules.
Okay, then now I don't understand other weapon features like Reach and Versatile. Since like the thrown option they add a different use case to the weapon which can trigger an additional feat set also.
I am going to start to use two-handed weapon Feats while using a long sword in one hand. The verbiage is that the weapon just needs to be held two-handed not that I need to be attacking with it in both hands for those Feats to work.
I really hope they build the MM around these metas to nullify all of it. The mental gymnastics of picking and choosing what rules we want to follow and which ones we don't are out of this world.
You're making a Ranged attack not a Melee one when throwing a Dagger. Same as Versatile, you're either making a one or two handed attack and how you attack dictates which Feats or abilities become active.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Yes. When you throw a dagger, you’re making a ranged attack, not a melee attack. No one’s saying otherwise.
pronouns: he/she/they
I'm not gonna repeat myself. You're confusing the old 2014 ruling which was unprecise with "weapon" and "attacks" as a restriction, and the designation they made for 2024.
There is no way a throwed weapon becomes ranged, cause you would have to use dex throwing handaxe. And I highly doubt they would allow that for barbarian :).
You're still making a ranged attack with a melee weapon using a sub specific ruling. That did not change.
You don't change the general rules to make it stick to ur uderstanding of a specification. Cause it messes up elsewhere like the barbarian dex handaxe for eg.
They updated the rules recently due to abuse like this advising players not to meta etc. You're welcome to run it that way at the table but it isn't RAW.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Throwing a handaxe is a ranged attack that uses Dex not Str (Look up D20 Tests > Attack Rolls > Ability Modifier > Attack Roll Abilities).
Note that Strength is used for "Melee attack with a weapon...", Dexterity is used for "Ranged attack with a weapon".
Pick up anything, and swing it, it is a melee weapon for that attack. Pick up anything and throw it, it is a ranged weapon for that attack.
Just because the list of weapons is organized into sections called Melee and Ranged doesn't mean that everything listed under Melee is always a "Melee Weapon" and those listed under Ranged are always "Ranged Weapons". There are Melee weapons with the Thrown tag, and you can always club someone with that nice fragile bow.
It is how it is used. If you're throwing it, you benefit from those things that affect ranged attacks. If you are swinging/poking with it, then you benefit from those things affecting melee attacks.
It isn't from the weapon, it's how you use that weapon on that particular round.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
The rules for the Thrown property say that you use the same ability score when throwing that you use for a melee attack with the weapon if it’s a melee weapon, so Handaxes would use Strength. A Thrown Finesse weapon such as a Dagger could use either Strength or Dexterity. Either way, it’s still a ranged attack.
pronouns: he/she/they
A weapon is classified as either Melee or Ranged. Wether you make a emelee or ranged attack with it doesn't change that unless noted otherwise like the Hoopak for example.
Sick build Cheeky, this is some dank sauce.
Thanks, I do also love it whenever I make a build that sparks soo much debate :-D
I'm not sure if I am some how misreading dueling, but I could swear I am reading that the weapon is in your hand add +2 damage. So if you throw it hasn't it left your hand? If I am confused let me know.
“When you’re holding a Melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.”
No misinterpretation there, yeah that does seem to be the simplest reading, and so an issue. The fact it uses “when” rather than “whilst” does give some interpretative wiggle room though.
You should still be considered wielding thrown weapons for the purpose of attack and damage rolls, so for example when you’re holding a Hand Axe in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon, wether its melee or ranged attacks.
Can I repeat what I interpreted from this thread to see if I am correct?
I have dueling, and weapon mastery with a dagger. 20 strength and 8 dex, 1st level.
Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +7; if hit, the nick property is not in use as there is no 2nd weapon
Dagger as a Thrown is range weapon but still acts like melee, so repeat the above. Then I need to draw/grab/load/etc. a new/different weapon
Dart as a Thrown is range weapon (no mastery) is to hit is -1 damage is dice + (-1)
--------------------------------
I have a dagger in each hand. So both Dagger as a melee weapon, to hit is +5; damage is 1d4 +5; if hit, the nick property is in use, but lose teh +2 damage bonus from Dueling, as there is a 2nd weapon.
How do I have this wrong?
You are not including your proficiency bonus in your "to hit" numbers.
Daggers are simple weapons, which (under 2024 rules) everyone is proficient with, so every attack with them should benefit from the character's proficiency bonus. For a level 1 character, the proficiency bonus is +2.
Your attack modifier for a weapon you're proficient with is equal to your proficiency bonus plus the modifier for the relevant ability score. In your example with the dagger, that's +2 plus +5, for a total of +7. Since the weapon has the Thrown property, that calculation is the same for both melee attacks and ranged attacks with it.
Your example with the dart is also missing the proficiency bonus — again, +2 — so when combined with your -1 dexterity modifier, the total would be +1. (Darts are also a simple weapon that all 2024 characters are proficient with.)
Your damage calculations are mostly correct, as you don't generally add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls in D&D. However, when you make a second attack using a second weapon via the Light property, you don't add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack either, so that attack's damage is just 1d4. (Having the "Two-Weapon Fighting" fighting style feat removes this penalty.)
Possibly you're getting confused by the terms "proficiency" and "mastery". They are similar words in normal English but they have very specific (and different) meanings in D&D rules.
pronouns: he/she/they