A fighter in my group has dropped hints all campaign that he really wants his character to, at some point, find a vorpal greatsword. He's a good guy, fun and engaging, and I believe in rewarding deserving players, so he will get his vorpal sword. But at the moment, the party is only level 12. What would be a more reasonable level to drop such a powerful item into his hands?
Page 37 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, section TIERS OF PLAY, subsection LEVELS 17-20: MASTERS OF THE WORLD, paragraph 2:
"Dedicated spellcasters at this tier wield earthshaking 9th-level spells such as wish, gate, storm of vengeance, and astral projection. Characters have several rare and very rare magic items at their disposal, and begin discovering legendary items such as a vorpal sword or a staff of the magi."
I agree with DxJxC that a vorpal shouldn't be given out until AT LEAST level 15.
But...
BUT!!!
You know you can't just drop a vorpal into some standard loot roll. That fighter will have to EARN that vorpal. Which means that they will have to defeat some BBEG who is the current owner of the vorpal blade. And in that fight, that BBEG will be using that vorpal blade against the party!
The player may get the blade they have always sought, but it may be a Pyrrhic victory. Every time he draws that blade he may be reminded of the day he got it... the day he saw that same blade decapitated one of his friends.
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Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Maybe drop the Vorpal blade for him after defeating a BBEG but the powers within it need suitable sacrifices or maybe the works of a powerful mage to give it a 'jolt' to wake up again. Maybe during the fight, the blade was chipped and now they have to search for a replacement piece? Until then, level 15+ onwards, they'll just have a fancy piece of magic with a pointy tip. Treat it as a simple +2 longsword until then so it has SOME value.
I know I'm years behind on this, but don't underestimate the ability of working toward a Vorpal Sword (or any magic item) in "steps." In my current game, the fighter discovered a draconian instruction manual at level 14, which then had to be decoded to give instructions, which then leads to a couple mini-quests gathering a cursed +3 sword and the shell of a Rainbow Snail to craft a "Defender" weapon, which will ideally be done sometime at 15.
From there, the instructions will go on to explain a process by which the Defender can be upgraded further and split into a Vorpal Greatsword and an Animated Shield, hopefully by about level 18-19.
Granted this depends on how long the campaign is running, and it does take a little extra figuring, but for only the four members in my current game it's not too much extra work, and I think the idea of not only working toward something like that, but having a piece of gear that grows with them is fun, both as player and DM.
Base the drop on when the rest of the party starts getting those +3 magic items. The vorpal part is not much of a factor as it requires a natural 20 to take effect. I gave a vorpal sword out and the fighter (champion) went three full levels and never rolled a natural 20. He was playing a champion and critted a number of times, just not via a natural 20.
The one bit of advice. If you've got a BBEG have a plan for the fighter doing a one hit kill, probably won't happen but realize the possibly is there. Then again, you should already have a plan in place if you've got any sort of primary caster at that level.
Early levels random works, but it tends to screw over the characters to some extent. Especially if one class got a really good item and the rest of the party is stuck with an immovable rod a figurine and a wand of detect magic.
Anything given to the group after they reach 5th level think about what its actually bringing to the table and how it will affect the play experience of the other players.
Early levels random works, but it tends to screw over the characters to some extent. Especially if one class got a really good item and the rest of the party is stuck with an immovable rod a figurine and a wand of detect magic.
Anything given to the group after they reach 5th level think about what its actually bringing to the table and how it will affect the play experience of the other players.
Having played both ways, I think random is better. I don't generally see it cause a problem when one character is getting a bunch of great items and others aren't. I think my bladesinger finished Descent Into Avernus at level 14 with only an imnovable rod (which I actually purchased). Our Ranger had a legendary sword, our Barbarian had a magic axe, our Sorcerer had a legendary dagger, our Monk had a vicous staff. Luckily, I was smart enough to buy a silver short sword before we went to hell. That was one of the best games I have played though.
The thing I have found to be a bigger problem is players wanting to horde magic items, even when they would work better for another player or they already have the most.
Having played both ways, I think random is better.
Personally I prefer "bespoke", i.e- DM chooses items that fit each character, but that would be specifically for items that are part of the player's progression. Random is fine for "pick up" items, i.e- mostly utility items that the party finds and may or may not use; a carpet of flying, deck of many things or wand of wonder are good examples of these as they're something to tempt your party with using, but if or when they do, and who does it, is up to them. There are also various good items that you can give to a group and they can decide for themselves who takes it, though it depends on the group (how greedy they or their characters are).
But yeah, for progression items it's better for the DM to have some kind of plan IMO, and to work with the players to ensure they don't pick items that they're not going to consider much of a reward.
I recently had a DM who created a bunch of custom homebrew items, and while they clearly put in some thought and effort it was a bit of a mixed bag; my character ended up with a giant "bulldozer" shield that she used once and hasn't used since, because if she uses it it forces her towards always charging into every combat and only ever fighting in melee, but this is a character named "Bullette" because she's a minotauress gunslinger, she is intended to be a mixed melee/ranged character who is naturally strong in melee, but spends all of her downtime upgrading her firearms, so a shield that makes switching between the two is more problematic than useful for her sadly. This puts me in the difficult position of not wanting to seem really ungrateful, but if I'd been consulted about the plan I'd have had a chance to warn him away from it.
The best way IMO to handle item progression is to talk to your players about what they need or want over the course of a campaign; they may really like their current magic weapon, so won't be easily tempted by anything else, but maybe they feel their AC is lacking, or they're too vulnerable to certain effects (e.g- being charmed), i.e- get a feel for where the character is at, and what might suit them going forward. If it comes to it you can ask for specific recommendations; that might be boring, but as with birthday gift-lists at least it means you're definitely getting them something they want and will use.
Another good way to handle magic items, especially legendary items, is to tie them to a quest whose sole purpose is to obtain that item. For example, instead of finding a robe of the archmagi and a vorpal sword stuffed inside a necromancer's sock drawer, maybe you find a journal describing possible locations for several legendary items, alongside descriptions of what they are known to do. This way it's up to the players which item(s), if any, they seek out, and in what order, most likely with some idea of who is going to then use them. As long as the DM is clear that each player with eventually get their own legendary item, then I think most groups will be fine with doing it this way, even if it means some players are stronger than others for a while as you quest around tracking down legendary items.
This is maybe getting slightly off topic, but I think how you handle magic items in a general sense is a valuable skill that a lot of DMs get wrong; too many of my groups have seen magic items handed out far too soon, which overpowers players early and creates escalation. The rules designers have stated that magic items aren't actually a requirement in the game; it should be possible to play a campaign from start to finish without every obtaining or using any magical items (unless required by a quest), though it may require a party to prepare more in other ways. So no matter when you give a magic item the DM needs to account for it with their encounter difficulty, which is another pitfall with items (combat encounters becoming far too easy, so they just feel like a waste of time).
TL;DR Don't give them it too soon, and not until you're ready to counterbalance it. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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This is maybe getting slightly off topic, but I think how you handle magic items in a general sense is a valuable skill that a lot of DMs get wrong; too many of my groups have seen magic items handed out far too soon, which overpowers players early and creates escalation. The rules designers have stated that magic items aren't actually a requirement in the game; it should be possible to play a campaign from start to finish without every obtaining or using any magical items (unless required by a quest), though it may require a party to prepare more in other ways. So no matter when you give a magic item the DM needs to account for it with their encounter difficulty, which is another pitfall with items (combat encounters becoming far too easy, so they just feel like a waste of time).
The designers can say that, but they're wrong especially at higher levels.This is the same game where they don't playtest beyond 10th level.
Sure the odds and ends (wand of wonder, flying carpet and the like) you can drop and it won't cause issues. But the primary martial classes have to have a magical weapon. It can be any type of magic weapon and doesn't have to be a + N. But starting late tier 2 and definitely tier 3 and 4 quiet a few of the standard encounters are going to require magic for a martial to be effective at all.
I know there is a magic weapon spell, but that takes concentration and what caster wants to waste their concentration on a weapon for someone else?
I've seen the spell cast exactly twice. Once by a paladin and once by a forge cleric.
But starting late tier 2 and definitely tier 3 and 4 quiet a few of the standard encounters are going to require magic for a martial to be effective at all.
If you're referring to creatures that have resistance/immunity to non-magical weapons, a lot of these are still susceptible to silvered weapons. But even those that aren't aren't really a problem; if you're using "standard" encounters without modification you should be using standard loot etc. as recommended by the same source, otherwise you should be modifying the encounters accordingly.
The point is that magic weapons are not required to play the game, because your DM has final say on the encounters you face, so they're supposed to choose things that the party isn't incapable of ever defeating. If you do include magic items then they should feel special, and like obtaining each one is an important moment, but too many DMs fall to the temptation of just having them lying around or being handy out in large quantities, and they suddenly don't feel so magical anymore.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Where are you getting the silvered weapons work instead of magic? A quick check only has 34 monsters that take full damage from silvered weapons and that includes variants (wererat vs halfing wererat) and legacy; remove those and you’ve got 21. Verses 128 pages of monsters.
But you’re right as far as homebrew goes. The DM should take into account what the party can bring to bear.
However, let me make my point a bit more explicit. Look at the modules that hit tier 3 (Princes of the Apocalypse, Descent into Avernus, Rise of Tiamat, Storm King’s Thunder, etc.) and the treasure and creatures presented for the groups to fight and the loot dropped.
Then look at those same combats as presented in the modules and assume no magic items. The groups can still win, but those martial classes (barbarian, fighter, rogue with a non-magic subclass) don’t significantly contribute to any of the later combats.
This is maybe getting slightly off topic, but I think how you handle magic items in a general sense is a valuable skill that a lot of DMs get wrong; too many of my groups have seen magic items handed out far too soon, which overpowers players early and creates escalation. The rules designers have stated that magic items aren't actually a requirement in the game; it should be possible to play a campaign from start to finish without every obtaining or using any magical items (unless required by a quest), though it may require a party to prepare more in other ways. So no matter when you give a magic item the DM needs to account for it with their encounter difficulty, which is another pitfall with items (combat encounters becoming far too easy, so they just feel like a waste of time).
The designers can say that, but they're wrong especially at higher levels.This is the same game where they don't playtest beyond 10th level.
Sure the odds and ends (wand of wonder, flying carpet and the like) you can drop and it won't cause issues. But the primary martial classes have to have a magical weapon. It can be any type of magic weapon and doesn't have to be a + N. But starting late tier 2 and definitely tier 3 and 4 quiet a few of the standard encounters are going to require magic for a martial to be effective at all.
I know there is a magic weapon spell, but that takes concentration and what caster wants to waste their concentration on a weapon for someone else?
I've seen the spell cast exactly twice. Once by a paladin and once by a forge cleric.
While resistance is fairly common, not many enemies are immune to non-magic silver weapons, and keep in mind most martials have ways of getting magic damage without magic weapons. Not all but most do.
Where are you getting the silvered weapons work instead of magic? A quick check only has 34 monsters that take full damage from silvered weapons and that includes variants (wererat vs halfing wererat) and legacy; remove those and you’ve got 21. Verses 128 pages of monsters.
I only see 3 pages of monsters on DNDB that are immune to non-magic piercing bludgeoning and slashing silvered weapons and most of those are demon lords.
However, let me make my point a bit more explicit. Look at the modules that hit tier 3 (Princes of the Apocalypse, Descent into Avernus, Rise of Tiamat, Storm King’s Thunder, etc.) and the treasure and creatures presented for the groups to fight and the loot dropped.
As I mentioned earlier I finished DIA with a silvered short sword as my primary weapon and I used it in every fight including against Zariel and Bel.
Some of the magical subclasses do but most martial subclasses do not have a way to get magical damage.
The point isnt damage immunity but half damage. A fighter doing 1/2 damage on 3 attacks/round is basically ignored while most (if not all) of the defenses (reactions) go toward warding off magic.
So now the fighter rogue and barb players feel like they arent contributing excep in being targets so the casters don't get squashed.
This feels like it's getting really off-topic; while some campaigns/encounters will require magic items if you just use them as-is, they don't need to because the game doesn't require them to be given out or for you to use those encounters, that's up to the DM and the adventure they're running. Really my point was intended more to be that you shouldn't hand out too many magic items, so that the ones you do hand out are more special, and you can make more of them when it happens (such as having a quest to get them etc.). I was really just trying to remind that a campaign doesn't need magic items to be fun, but if you do include them try to make them special.
I will say though that a fighter doing reduced or even zero damage doesn't mean they're not contributing or can't; enemies having resistances and immunities should mean that you have to change how you fight them, or that the dynamic of the party has to suddenly change, as that's kind of the whole point. Making sure every martial has a magical weapon so that bludgeoning/piercing/slashing resistance or immunity literally never matters is actually taking away from these encounters, same is if you discourage players from focusing on an element because two or three is "more optimal" etc. IMO it's fun for characters and parties to have weaknesses such that suddenly the fighter can't just wail on something until it dies, and has to switch to trying to shield the casters who can hurt it, trying to Grapple it if they can, or taking the Help action etc. It forces you to play differently, and think of new ideas, rather than just going through the loop of attack, attack, attack every encounter.
Of course if you know in advance that you're going to be facing a certain dangerous enemy then it makes sense to try and go prepared with weapons that can hurt it etc., but it's all heavily contextual. The same is true of picking up silvered weapons if you know you're going to face a ghost or a werecreature, or prepare different spells if your normally acid heavy Wizard is expecting to encounter a black dragon etc., but sometimes you don't have time for that, and you have to make do, and that's fine (and fun) too.
Doesn't really help with when to hand out a vorpal sword, but that depends on so many factors; 17th-level is probably the right time by default, but it depends what items others have (or are likely to get), what the party is facing (or expecting to face) etc. You can hand out the vorpal swords as basic equipment at level 1 if you want to, and are happy to balance for that, but you probably shouldn't. 😉
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Some of the magical subclasses do but most martial subclasses do not have a way to get magical damage.
33 out of 45 martial subclasses have access to magic damage. This includes all Paladins, all Monks, all Rangers, Storm Heralds, Zealots, Psi Warriors, Eldritch Knights, Rune Knights and Arcane Archers.
There are only 12 Fighter and Barbarian subclasses that don't have access to magic damage of some sort.
The point isnt damage immunity but half damage. A fighter doing 1/2 damage on 3 attacks/round is basically ignored while most (if not all) of the defenses (reactions) go toward warding off magic.
Most enemies that are resistant to non-magic silvered weapons are going to be resistant to magic as well.
You’re arguing from a homebrew perspective. My point is based on official published modules and organized play. Organized play makes sure every character has a magical weapon at 5 level. Specifically to avoid the issues I brough up earlier.
No one wants to go to an organized play event and be ineffective, especially as some are the ‘pay to play’. In my experience by paying the store for table space.
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A fighter in my group has dropped hints all campaign that he really wants his character to, at some point, find a vorpal greatsword. He's a good guy, fun and engaging, and I believe in rewarding deserving players, so he will get his vorpal sword. But at the moment, the party is only level 12. What would be a more reasonable level to drop such a powerful item into his hands?
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Page 37 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, section TIERS OF PLAY, subsection LEVELS 17-20: MASTERS OF THE WORLD, paragraph 2:
"Dedicated spellcasters at this tier wield earthshaking 9th-level spells such as wish, gate, storm of vengeance, and astral projection. Characters have several rare and very rare magic items at their disposal, and begin discovering legendary items such as a vorpal sword or a staff of the magi."
I'd argue it could be as early as (late) level 15, but not earlier.
I agree with DxJxC that a vorpal shouldn't be given out until AT LEAST level 15.
But...
BUT!!!
You know you can't just drop a vorpal into some standard loot roll. That fighter will have to EARN that vorpal. Which means that they will have to defeat some BBEG who is the current owner of the vorpal blade. And in that fight, that BBEG will be using that vorpal blade against the party!
The player may get the blade they have always sought, but it may be a Pyrrhic victory. Every time he draws that blade he may be reminded of the day he got it... the day he saw that same blade decapitated one of his friends.
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
Maybe drop the Vorpal blade for him after defeating a BBEG but the powers within it need suitable sacrifices or maybe the works of a powerful mage to give it a 'jolt' to wake up again. Maybe during the fight, the blade was chipped and now they have to search for a replacement piece? Until then, level 15+ onwards, they'll just have a fancy piece of magic with a pointy tip. Treat it as a simple +2 longsword until then so it has SOME value.
I know I'm years behind on this, but don't underestimate the ability of working toward a Vorpal Sword (or any magic item) in "steps." In my current game, the fighter discovered a draconian instruction manual at level 14, which then had to be decoded to give instructions, which then leads to a couple mini-quests gathering a cursed +3 sword and the shell of a Rainbow Snail to craft a "Defender" weapon, which will ideally be done sometime at 15.
From there, the instructions will go on to explain a process by which the Defender can be upgraded further and split into a Vorpal Greatsword and an Animated Shield, hopefully by about level 18-19.
Granted this depends on how long the campaign is running, and it does take a little extra figuring, but for only the four members in my current game it's not too much extra work, and I think the idea of not only working toward something like that, but having a piece of gear that grows with them is fun, both as player and DM.
Base the drop on when the rest of the party starts getting those +3 magic items. The vorpal part is not much of a factor as it requires a natural 20 to take effect. I gave a vorpal sword out and the fighter (champion) went three full levels and never rolled a natural 20. He was playing a champion and critted a number of times, just not via a natural 20.
The one bit of advice. If you've got a BBEG have a plan for the fighter doing a one hit kill, probably won't happen but realize the possibly is there. Then again, you should already have a plan in place if you've got any sort of primary caster at that level.
I would not give him one. As DM I tend to make treasure random.
Early levels random works, but it tends to screw over the characters to some extent. Especially if one class got a really good item and the rest of the party is stuck with an immovable rod a figurine and a wand of detect magic.
Anything given to the group after they reach 5th level think about what its actually bringing to the table and how it will affect the play experience of the other players.
Having played both ways, I think random is better. I don't generally see it cause a problem when one character is getting a bunch of great items and others aren't. I think my bladesinger finished Descent Into Avernus at level 14 with only an imnovable rod (which I actually purchased). Our Ranger had a legendary sword, our Barbarian had a magic axe, our Sorcerer had a legendary dagger, our Monk had a vicous staff. Luckily, I was smart enough to buy a silver short sword before we went to hell. That was one of the best games I have played though.
The thing I have found to be a bigger problem is players wanting to horde magic items, even when they would work better for another player or they already have the most.
Personally I prefer "bespoke", i.e- DM chooses items that fit each character, but that would be specifically for items that are part of the player's progression. Random is fine for "pick up" items, i.e- mostly utility items that the party finds and may or may not use; a carpet of flying, deck of many things or wand of wonder are good examples of these as they're something to tempt your party with using, but if or when they do, and who does it, is up to them. There are also various good items that you can give to a group and they can decide for themselves who takes it, though it depends on the group (how greedy they or their characters are).
But yeah, for progression items it's better for the DM to have some kind of plan IMO, and to work with the players to ensure they don't pick items that they're not going to consider much of a reward.
I recently had a DM who created a bunch of custom homebrew items, and while they clearly put in some thought and effort it was a bit of a mixed bag; my character ended up with a giant "bulldozer" shield that she used once and hasn't used since, because if she uses it it forces her towards always charging into every combat and only ever fighting in melee, but this is a character named "Bullette" because she's a minotauress gunslinger, she is intended to be a mixed melee/ranged character who is naturally strong in melee, but spends all of her downtime upgrading her firearms, so a shield that makes switching between the two is more problematic than useful for her sadly. This puts me in the difficult position of not wanting to seem really ungrateful, but if I'd been consulted about the plan I'd have had a chance to warn him away from it.
The best way IMO to handle item progression is to talk to your players about what they need or want over the course of a campaign; they may really like their current magic weapon, so won't be easily tempted by anything else, but maybe they feel their AC is lacking, or they're too vulnerable to certain effects (e.g- being charmed), i.e- get a feel for where the character is at, and what might suit them going forward. If it comes to it you can ask for specific recommendations; that might be boring, but as with birthday gift-lists at least it means you're definitely getting them something they want and will use.
Another good way to handle magic items, especially legendary items, is to tie them to a quest whose sole purpose is to obtain that item. For example, instead of finding a robe of the archmagi and a vorpal sword stuffed inside a necromancer's sock drawer, maybe you find a journal describing possible locations for several legendary items, alongside descriptions of what they are known to do. This way it's up to the players which item(s), if any, they seek out, and in what order, most likely with some idea of who is going to then use them. As long as the DM is clear that each player with eventually get their own legendary item, then I think most groups will be fine with doing it this way, even if it means some players are stronger than others for a while as you quest around tracking down legendary items.
This is maybe getting slightly off topic, but I think how you handle magic items in a general sense is a valuable skill that a lot of DMs get wrong; too many of my groups have seen magic items handed out far too soon, which overpowers players early and creates escalation. The rules designers have stated that magic items aren't actually a requirement in the game; it should be possible to play a campaign from start to finish without every obtaining or using any magical items (unless required by a quest), though it may require a party to prepare more in other ways. So no matter when you give a magic item the DM needs to account for it with their encounter difficulty, which is another pitfall with items (combat encounters becoming far too easy, so they just feel like a waste of time).
TL;DR
Don't give them it too soon, and not until you're ready to counterbalance it. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The designers can say that, but they're wrong especially at higher levels.This is the same game where they don't playtest beyond 10th level.
Sure the odds and ends (wand of wonder, flying carpet and the like) you can drop and it won't cause issues. But the primary martial classes have to have a magical weapon. It can be any type of magic weapon and doesn't have to be a + N. But starting late tier 2 and definitely tier 3 and 4 quiet a few of the standard encounters are going to require magic for a martial to be effective at all.
I know there is a magic weapon spell, but that takes concentration and what caster wants to waste their concentration on a weapon for someone else?
I've seen the spell cast exactly twice. Once by a paladin and once by a forge cleric.
If you're referring to creatures that have resistance/immunity to non-magical weapons, a lot of these are still susceptible to silvered weapons. But even those that aren't aren't really a problem; if you're using "standard" encounters without modification you should be using standard loot etc. as recommended by the same source, otherwise you should be modifying the encounters accordingly.
The point is that magic weapons are not required to play the game, because your DM has final say on the encounters you face, so they're supposed to choose things that the party isn't incapable of ever defeating. If you do include magic items then they should feel special, and like obtaining each one is an important moment, but too many DMs fall to the temptation of just having them lying around or being handy out in large quantities, and they suddenly don't feel so magical anymore.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Where are you getting the silvered weapons work instead of magic? A quick check only has 34 monsters that take full damage from silvered weapons and that includes variants (wererat vs halfing wererat) and legacy; remove those and you’ve got 21. Verses 128 pages of monsters.
But you’re right as far as homebrew goes. The DM should take into account what the party can bring to bear.
However, let me make my point a bit more explicit. Look at the modules that hit tier 3 (Princes of the Apocalypse, Descent into Avernus, Rise of Tiamat, Storm King’s Thunder, etc.) and the treasure and creatures presented for the groups to fight and the loot dropped.
Then look at those same combats as presented in the modules and assume no magic items. The groups can still win, but those martial classes (barbarian, fighter, rogue with a non-magic subclass) don’t significantly contribute to any of the later combats.
While resistance is fairly common, not many enemies are immune to non-magic silver weapons, and keep in mind most martials have ways of getting magic damage without magic weapons. Not all but most do.
I only see 3 pages of monsters on DNDB that are immune to non-magic piercing bludgeoning and slashing silvered weapons and most of those are demon lords.
As I mentioned earlier I finished DIA with a silvered short sword as my primary weapon and I used it in every fight including against Zariel and Bel.
Some of the magical subclasses do but most martial subclasses do not have a way to get magical damage.
The point isnt damage immunity but half damage. A fighter doing 1/2 damage on 3 attacks/round is basically ignored while most (if not all) of the defenses (reactions) go toward warding off magic.
So now the fighter rogue and barb players feel like they arent contributing excep in being targets so the casters don't get squashed.
This feels like it's getting really off-topic; while some campaigns/encounters will require magic items if you just use them as-is, they don't need to because the game doesn't require them to be given out or for you to use those encounters, that's up to the DM and the adventure they're running. Really my point was intended more to be that you shouldn't hand out too many magic items, so that the ones you do hand out are more special, and you can make more of them when it happens (such as having a quest to get them etc.). I was really just trying to remind that a campaign doesn't need magic items to be fun, but if you do include them try to make them special.
I will say though that a fighter doing reduced or even zero damage doesn't mean they're not contributing or can't; enemies having resistances and immunities should mean that you have to change how you fight them, or that the dynamic of the party has to suddenly change, as that's kind of the whole point. Making sure every martial has a magical weapon so that bludgeoning/piercing/slashing resistance or immunity literally never matters is actually taking away from these encounters, same is if you discourage players from focusing on an element because two or three is "more optimal" etc. IMO it's fun for characters and parties to have weaknesses such that suddenly the fighter can't just wail on something until it dies, and has to switch to trying to shield the casters who can hurt it, trying to Grapple it if they can, or taking the Help action etc. It forces you to play differently, and think of new ideas, rather than just going through the loop of attack, attack, attack every encounter.
Of course if you know in advance that you're going to be facing a certain dangerous enemy then it makes sense to try and go prepared with weapons that can hurt it etc., but it's all heavily contextual. The same is true of picking up silvered weapons if you know you're going to face a ghost or a werecreature, or prepare different spells if your normally acid heavy Wizard is expecting to encounter a black dragon etc., but sometimes you don't have time for that, and you have to make do, and that's fine (and fun) too.
Doesn't really help with when to hand out a vorpal sword, but that depends on so many factors; 17th-level is probably the right time by default, but it depends what items others have (or are likely to get), what the party is facing (or expecting to face) etc. You can hand out the vorpal swords as basic equipment at level 1 if you want to, and are happy to balance for that, but you probably shouldn't. 😉
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
33 out of 45 martial subclasses have access to magic damage. This includes all Paladins, all Monks, all Rangers, Storm Heralds, Zealots, Psi Warriors, Eldritch Knights, Rune Knights and Arcane Archers.
There are only 12 Fighter and Barbarian subclasses that don't have access to magic damage of some sort.
Most enemies that are resistant to non-magic silvered weapons are going to be resistant to magic as well.
This has gone off the rails a bit.
You’re arguing from a homebrew perspective. My point is based on official published modules and organized play. Organized play makes sure every character has a magical weapon at 5 level. Specifically to avoid the issues I brough up earlier.
No one wants to go to an organized play event and be ineffective, especially as some are the ‘pay to play’. In my experience by paying the store for table space.