Although the ability is called Slow Fall, nothing in it says the rate at which you fall is affected in any way.
You do not slow down. You still fall at the same speed and still calculate damage as 1d6 for each 10 feet fallen.
Most of what everyone is saying in all these posts is the same thing, except for 1 key fact. The monk's ability reduces damage the monk takes. If this is applied before the split you are actually reducing damage that another creature is taking and nowhere in slow fall does it say this is possible. If you apply the monk's slow fall ability to reduce damage to the monk resulting from falling only when the monk would be taking the damage, then the monk's ability to reduce falling damage the monk takes would not break any other rule and not reduce a single point of damage to the 2nd creature (the one who got landed on and took half of the full calculated falling damage, with nothing reduced).
(Forgot about the rage thing for barbarians, they can't ready that. But they could rage and then dive off something more than 10 feet but less than 500 feet high, there should be lots of things in just about every game in existence that meet those conditions.)
The logical fallacy here is Slow Fall wouldn't say anything about reducing the damage the impacted character would take because that optional rule didn't exist at the time. The place to look would be in the rule for Falling onto a Creature, and 5E simply hasn't been written with the granularity you demand.
Let's actually pose a hypothetical scenario. Say a 5th-level monk is falling 100 feet for 10d6 damage. That averages out to 35 damage. So, with Slow Fall they would reduce the damage by 25 and only suffer 10 damage.
Camp A is arguing Slow Fall triggers when the fall begins, not when damage is suffered. The impacted character splits the damage with the monk. Both suffer 5 damage (before Damage Resistance) and fall prone.
Camp B is arguing Slow Fall triggers when damage is suffered (which is not RAW) and can only reduce damage for the monk (which isn't explicitly stated anywhere). The impacted character splits the original 35 damage to take 17 damage and is knocked prone. The monk takes no damage and remains upright; presumably standing atop the fallen character.
In both cases, Slow Fall reduces the damage suffered by the monk. In both cases, the monk further reduces the damage suffered by falling onto another creature.
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
those last 2 words of the highlighted red always make me think the monk can only reduce the damage it takes.
to find out what the monk takes you have to apply this new rule that gives the 2nd target a save to avoid being hit.
the reason to calculate how much damage the monk takes is because the monk has an ability called slow fall that reduces damage it takes from falling.
with the new rule the monk might take all the falling damage or just half.
once the save is made or failed you know how much each is taking and then the monk's slow fall ability that was triggered by falling and announced by the player way back at the beginning of all this can now be used because we know how much the monk is taking.
the monk only reduces falling damage that the monk takes
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Another thing to consider is how this works at higher levels.
Let's say for example a 20th level monk falls between 200 to 500 feet so that it will occur in 1 round and do the max 20d6 damage.
That's about 70 damage on average but the monk's slow fall reduces 100 damage... so the monk can jump or fall from any height and land on someone and they both take no damage???
Or the 70 damage is split evenly between the 2 creatures and they each take 35 damage... since the monk takes 35 damage he reduces the damage he takes by 100.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
those last 2 words of the highlighted red always make me think the monk can only reduce the damage it takes.
to find out what the monk takes you have to apply this new rule that gives the 2nd target a save to avoid being hit.
the reason to calculate how much damage the monk takes is because the monk has an ability called slow fall that reduces damage it takes from falling.
with the new rule the monk might take all the falling damage or just half.
once the save is made or failed you know how much each is taking and then the monk's slow fall ability that was triggered by falling and announced by the player way back at the beginning of all this can now be used because we know how much the monk is taking.
the monk only reduces falling damage that the monk takes
Here's the problem.
Your focused on those last two words in red. The same exact two words that appear in the rule your trying to state the ability doesn't apply to. It says the Damage you take is Split.
Slow Fall says that it reduces the Damage you Take.
Notice that neither rule says only in any way what so ever. But they both use the same words.
The Damage you cause to another is based upon the damage that you take. The damage you take is reduced by slow fall. These two things are not exclusionary. They do not say only. They do not make changes to the order of operations. They are two things working on the exact same thing.
But here is the thing your ignoring constantly even though we have repeated it over and over again. There is nothing in the order of operations or the Rule Anywhere that says that you have to find out if you split the damage First for Slow Fall to Work. Absolutely Nothing. It does not care about the splitting of the damage. It does not even care how much damage you take. It just hard reduces it by a set amount with a maximum of turning it into 0 damage regardless of the full amount it could potentially reduce as indicated by the words "up to" when talking about the damage that you take. Slow Fall never cares about the amount of damage that could result from a fall in fact. Or even trigger by the Damage. It only triggers by the fall and the expenditure of a Reaction. And it reduces the damage whether it is 1d6 or 20d6. It does not know the difference. It does not care. It doesn't even care who ultimately takes the damage once it's done it's job. it only is something that triggers and part of calculating the damage. Immediately after you roll the damage dice you apply it's effect. That is all.
The Damage that you take however DOES affect the rule about falling on another person however. It Clearly states that if the dex save is failed That the Damage the other person takes is directly and outright congruent with the amount of damage that the Monk takes. Being half that of what the monk takes while the monk takes the other half. This is the ability that cares about what the damage is calculated out to. it is not itself a Damage calculation. It is simply an affect that says how the total outcome is applied, Which Slow Fall does not do or care about. This ability is the one that cares what the damage number is and how it is applied and states specific rules on applying it after the calculation is already done. which means slow fall has done it's job.
We have said this many times. But you focus on words in slow fall like they are somehow unique. They are not. They are in fact mirrored in the falling rule. And the Falling rule then makes an exception of Specificity to falling damage. You also have a propensity to add words through implication to what slow fall is saying. Even though those words are not there.
Another thing to consider is how this works at higher levels.
Let's say for example a 20th level monk falls between 200 to 500 feet so that it will occur in 1 round and do the max 20d6 damage.
That's about 70 damage on average but the monk's slow fall reduces 100 damage... so the monk can jump or fall from any height and land on someone and they both take no damage???
Or the 70 damage is split evenly between the 2 creatures and they each take 35 damage... since the monk takes 35 damage he reduces the damage he takes by 100.
I don't have to consider it at higher levels. Because the same can be true at low levels. It doesn't make it any more realistic in any way to say only one of the people takes the damage than it does two. Or that because the Monk understands and controls his body to the point that he can control how he falls to avoid damage should not also inadvertantly affect the person they fell on.
Your obsession over these numbers shows a possible intention to try and turn this into another attack without actually making an attack by purposely falling on another. That is clearly not the point or the intent of the Falling rule.
So Let me change tactics a little. The Feather Fall Spell. Functionally it is mostly the same thing as Slow Fall. Where it differs that It cannot affect multiple people all falling at the same time and it does not guarantee all damage will necessarily be negated but what it gets in return for that is it is a very low resource ability to use without having to worry about magic and the inherent problems that can come with spell casting.
By your interpretation. Because Slow Fall reduces the falling damage of the person that is falling. And Feather Fall reduces the damage of a person that is falling. Feather Fall should in fact deal damage to anybody that gets landed on from the fall with Feather Fall active. Yet that is clearly not what Feather Falls intent or the way it is worded says. Because the two in function in this regard are the same thing. Featherfall should not and does not deal damage to a person landed on and the Monk that uses Slow Fall may not necessarily deal damage to a person landed on for the exact same reason. Because they functionally reduce the damage of the Fall.
It also makes sense that if a monk knows how to fall in a way that is going to reduce impact. this reduction of Impact is going to work regardless of who or what they land on. And since it's not designed to make exception to deal damage to the things that are landed upon. There is no reason it should not effectively reduce damage inadvertently for anybody the monk lands on because the way they land is designed to reduce impact and injury. They are going to do it instinctively. They are not going to necessarily be able to reduce their own damage while dealing damage to another. If they are going to want to deal damage. they are going to want to not going to want to use their skill to soften the blow. So it makes sense that in attempting to deal that damage the monk would also take damage by not using slow fall at all.
Most of what you say is 100% correct and I have always agreed with and never disputed.
The sticking point for me is that the monk's slow fall does not reduce falling damage.
Let me state emphatically one more time... slow fall doesn't reduce falling damage.
Read it please, carefully. Slow Fall reduces falling damage the monk takes.
So it has to be:
1. Falling damage calculated based on height of fall.
2. Figure out if it's split or not.
3. Apply damage to monk and monk reduces damage it takes.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
...any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them (this doesn't say you take like the monk's slow fall, it says any damage is split evenly... so the full damage from falling is split and then the monk reduces the half he takes because that's what slow fall actually does... the 2nd creature takes half of the full falling damage having no ability to reduce this damage at all, and the monk can't reduce any of it for him because the monk's ability only works on the monk... it might not say 'only' but the 'you take' part clearly means this is for the monk alone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
...any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them (this doesn't say you take like the monk's slow fall, it says any damage is split evenly... so the full damage from falling is split and then the monk reduces the half he takes because that's what slow fall actually does... the 2nd creature takes half of the full falling damage having no ability to reduce this damage at all, and the monk can't reduce any of it for him because the monk's ability only works on the monk... it might not say 'only' but the 'you take' part clearly means this is for the monk alone.
If any damage resulting from the fall is to be split evenly, then applying Slow Fall only to the monk breaks the rule because you're not splitting the damage evenly.
You keep trying to rearrange the order here, and it just looks more and more ridiculous each time.
wooooo, this turned into a whole thing. as i said at the outset, i think either reading is defensible, and as always the answer is Ask Your DM, but i correctly suspected people would have strong feelings one way or the other.
The issue is, and always has been, timing. But there will always be certain people who will ignore the existing language, and invent new language, to justify their perspectives. But, fine, I'll start from scratch. First up is the general rule for falling.
Falling
A fall from a great height is one of the most common hazards facing an adventurer. At the end of a fall, a creature takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet it fell, to a maximum of 20d6. The creature lands prone, unless it avoids taking damage from the fall.
And this is pretty easy to understand unto itself. But what's clear here is the damage isn't assessed until after the fall; at the moment of impact. Next, we'll look at the monk's feature.
Slow Fall
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
The key phrase here is "when you fall." This feaure, this reaction, can only be used while falling. Arguably, it can only be used at the moment the monk begins to fall. The language is subtly different from, say, Feather Fall. And, despite what others might claim, it doesn't need the "only" qualifier. The monk falling is the trigger. And it reduces the damage the monk suffers. If the intent was to allow the monk to reduce the damage suffered by another falling creature, it would say so.
And, lastly, we look at the edge case of falling onto another creature.
Falling onto a Creature
If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
The key here is, "any damage resulting from the fall is evenly divided between them." The damage has to be evenly applied; though there may be mitigating or aggrivating factors. But any damage resulting from the fall has already been reduced by the monk using Slow Fall. After all, if the impacted creature succeeded in their saving throw we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The monk would just take the damage.
Falling onto another creature is just another means of reducing the damage. It's not something for monk's to exploit by nullifying any damage they might take from the fall. It's rather plainly written to not condone such a course of action. But if you do want to try and weaponize a fall, there are options:
It's not an attack, so bludgeoning damage from falling can ignore the damage immunity of an iron golem or werewolf.
Some creatures, like skeletons, don't care what source the bludgeoning damage comes from for their vulnerability, and that template (DMG 282) can be applied to virtually any NPC.
the whole point of the OP was that this could be weaponized... if you're just catching up now?
1. Roll up fall damage.
2. 2nd creature rolls his save.
3. If falling damage is split evenly the the 2nd creature takes his half and the monk takes his half... since the monk has an ability that allows him to reduce falling damage he takes he could indeed take nothing... but monks sometimes take nothing from falling anyway.
A 4th level monk can't take any damage from 30 foot falls (3d6 or 18 max). They reduce 20 falling damage that they take which makes it 0 so they're not even prone.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
the whole point of the OP was that this could be weaponized... if you're just catching up now?
1. Roll up fall damage.
2. 2nd creature rolls his save.
3. If falling damage is split evenly the the 2nd creature takes his half and the monk takes his half... since the monk has an ability that allows him to reduce falling damage he takes he could indeed take nothing... but monks sometimes take nothing from falling anyway.
A 4th level monk can't take any damage from 30 foot falls (3d6 or 18 max). They reduce 20 falling damage that they take which makes it 0 so they're not even prone.
Except the monk can't reduce damage after the split because the monk already reduced damage before the split. The "split" is just another way for the monk to reduce their damage.
You're not transferring momentum to turn into a human cannonball. And it's, quite frankly, both irritating and ridiculous that there are still jackanapes this cheesy with the rules.
Most of what you say is 100% correct and I have always agreed with and never disputed.
The sticking point for me is that the monk's slow fall does not reduce falling damage.
Let me state emphatically one more time... slow fall doesn't reduce falling damage.
Read it please, carefully. Slow Fall reduces falling damage the monk takes.
So it has to be:
1. Falling damage calculated based on height of fall.
2. Figure out if it's split or not.
3. Apply damage to monk and monk reduces damage it takes.
Brian No.
Your premise is flawed. Your beginning statement to come up with these arbitrary false rules of yours do not work. You cannot Say that it does not Reduce Damage and then immediately Declare it does reduce Damage. It is either one or the Other. It is not Both. And this is just another twisting of words to suit your end result. The Monks Damage is partly the other persons damage. You cannot escape this. Slow Fall Does reduce Damage. You cannot reduce this. We are not contradicting anything in any way that you are stating.
Your Creating Contradictions to force it to work for a single person only. And inadvertantly changing the order of operations to make it work the way that you wish by doing so.
the whole point of the OP was that this could be weaponized... if you're just catching up now?
1. Roll up fall damage.
2. 2nd creature rolls his save.
3. If falling damage is split evenly the the 2nd creature takes his half and the monk takes his half... since the monk has an ability that allows him to reduce falling damage he takes he could indeed take nothing... but monks sometimes take nothing from falling anyway.
A 4th level monk can't take any damage from 30 foot falls (3d6 or 18 max). They reduce 20 falling damage that they take which makes it 0 so they're not even prone.
while the Point of the OP may have been to suggest it might be weaponizable for discussions. The Truth of the Matter is that it is not weaponizable unless the Monk is willing to forgo using it's abilities and also take Damage. There is no way around this. It is not some kind of powerful surprise combat maneuver that's been created. If you even want to attempt such it is entirely at the risk of your own character because you will suffer damage as well. Twisting the Rules to Weaponize it does not change this fact.
As for Monks taking nothing from falls. Monks often take nothing from falls. This is nothing new or even out of the ordinary. People have been trying to weaponize various things about the monk's potential verticality for Decades and it's always worked out the same. Some work, some do not, And some are just too convoluted or niche to make practical. This just happens to be one that does not even if some players would like it to work.
It's funny how many times I have to state the fact that the monk's ability does not reduce damage, it reduces damage the monk takes. And until you know if the monk is taking the full damage from the fall or only half damage you cannot reduce anything yet, not to mention you only reduce when the monk takes the damage. So therefore you need to know if the 2nd creature makes the save or not. This means this step has to take place before the monk reduces damage. Since it takes place before the monk's damage is reduced the full and total fall damage is split evenly with the 2nd creature taking the full half of the falling damage. Luckily for the monk his damage reduction that affects only him and now reduces his falling damage that he takes.
RAW supports it. RAI doesn't. Rule of cool definitiely does.
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
It's funny how many times I have to state the fact that the monk's ability does not reduce damage, it reduces damage the monk takes. And until you know if the monk is taking the full damage from the fall or only half damage you cannot reduce anything yet, not to mention you only reduce when the monk takes the damage. So therefore you need to know if the 2nd creature makes the save or not. This means this step has to take place before the monk reduces damage. Since it takes place before the monk's damage is reduced the full and total fall damage is split evenly with the 2nd creature taking the full half of the falling damage. Luckily for the monk his damage reduction that affects only him and now reduces his falling damage that he takes.
RAW supports it. RAI doesn't. Rule of cool definitiely does.
Forget the Rule of Cool. It can be used to justify literally anything. That, alone, disqualifies it for this discussion. Stick to the RAW. And we've gone over it more times than I care to count. I really don't know why you keep going down this path, but whatever.
The monk's damage is reduced no matter what. There's no expressed stipulation that it can only reduce the damage the monk takes; you're inventing that. Regardless of when Slow Fall's reduction in damage takes place, it still reduces the monk's damage. This is the RAW. Stop making stuff up to justify your shenanigans.
Whether or not the damage taken by the monk is reduced further is determined by another creature. In other words, the impacted creature is just another way of reducing that fall damage. The monk isn't a humanoid cannonball who can simply transfer damage to another target and suffer nothing in return.
To allow what you want to allow is nothing more than a bad-faith interpretation of the rules to allow exploitative nonsense because you think it's cool. And that's never been a valid talking point when discussing the rules. If you want to throw the rules out the window to do whatever you think is fun, then fine. Just admit you're throwing out the rules.
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Fall. Reduce. Split. That is the order of operations.
Also. No matter how many times you say it. A contradiction is still a contradiction and a bad faith argument. Doesn't matter how many times you say "this doesn't work but this does exactly what I said doesn't work but with stipulations I'm adding myself" Still does not work. If it doesn't Work then it doesn't work. period. If it does work then because of order of operations It works first. Just like Damage Reduction does. If you have damage reduction from something like the Heavy Armor Master Feat. It would apply first. Not last. Your Order is completely wrong. We are not breaking your imaginary rules. We are not breaking the rules by RaW.
Our Words do not change because the Truth does not change. No matter how much you throw fits at it and tell them to change or complain that nothing said is changing. Nothing said is changing because your not changing. Not because the rules are not changing.
Sort of like the way you keep saying the same thing doesn't make it so or true or especially a fact. It's just yours and a few others opinion. There are billions on this planet that will see it always matters how much damage you take. To know what the monk takes is important because there is a new rule from Tasha's that might split that evenly with the 2nd creature. Once you roll up the fall damage you then have the 2nd creature make a saving throw, if it fails the falling damage is split evenly and the monk's half can be reduced by the monk's slow fall... which 4th level and higher monk's can do all the time.
(out of curiosity what page number is the Order of Operations on?)
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
— A basic prayer.
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The logical fallacy here is Slow Fall wouldn't say anything about reducing the damage the impacted character would take because that optional rule didn't exist at the time. The place to look would be in the rule for Falling onto a Creature, and 5E simply hasn't been written with the granularity you demand.
Let's actually pose a hypothetical scenario. Say a 5th-level monk is falling 100 feet for 10d6 damage. That averages out to 35 damage. So, with Slow Fall they would reduce the damage by 25 and only suffer 10 damage.
In both cases, Slow Fall reduces the damage suffered by the monk. In both cases, the monk further reduces the damage suffered by falling onto another creature.
So, which sounds more reasonable?
Slow Fall
Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
those last 2 words of the highlighted red always make me think the monk can only reduce the damage it takes.
to find out what the monk takes you have to apply this new rule that gives the 2nd target a save to avoid being hit.
the reason to calculate how much damage the monk takes is because the monk has an ability called slow fall that reduces damage it takes from falling.
with the new rule the monk might take all the falling damage or just half.
once the save is made or failed you know how much each is taking and then the monk's slow fall ability that was triggered by falling and announced by the player way back at the beginning of all this can now be used because we know how much the monk is taking.
the monk only reduces falling damage that the monk takes
Another thing to consider is how this works at higher levels.
Let's say for example a 20th level monk falls between 200 to 500 feet so that it will occur in 1 round and do the max 20d6 damage.
That's about 70 damage on average but the monk's slow fall reduces 100 damage... so the monk can jump or fall from any height and land on someone and they both take no damage???
Or the 70 damage is split evenly between the 2 creatures and they each take 35 damage... since the monk takes 35 damage he reduces the damage he takes by 100.
Here's the problem.
Your focused on those last two words in red. The same exact two words that appear in the rule your trying to state the ability doesn't apply to. It says the Damage you take is Split.
Slow Fall says that it reduces the Damage you Take.
Notice that neither rule says only in any way what so ever. But they both use the same words.
The Damage you cause to another is based upon the damage that you take. The damage you take is reduced by slow fall. These two things are not exclusionary. They do not say only. They do not make changes to the order of operations. They are two things working on the exact same thing.
But here is the thing your ignoring constantly even though we have repeated it over and over again. There is nothing in the order of operations or the Rule Anywhere that says that you have to find out if you split the damage First for Slow Fall to Work. Absolutely Nothing. It does not care about the splitting of the damage. It does not even care how much damage you take. It just hard reduces it by a set amount with a maximum of turning it into 0 damage regardless of the full amount it could potentially reduce as indicated by the words "up to" when talking about the damage that you take. Slow Fall never cares about the amount of damage that could result from a fall in fact. Or even trigger by the Damage. It only triggers by the fall and the expenditure of a Reaction. And it reduces the damage whether it is 1d6 or 20d6. It does not know the difference. It does not care. It doesn't even care who ultimately takes the damage once it's done it's job. it only is something that triggers and part of calculating the damage. Immediately after you roll the damage dice you apply it's effect. That is all.
The Damage that you take however DOES affect the rule about falling on another person however. It Clearly states that if the dex save is failed That the Damage the other person takes is directly and outright congruent with the amount of damage that the Monk takes. Being half that of what the monk takes while the monk takes the other half. This is the ability that cares about what the damage is calculated out to. it is not itself a Damage calculation. It is simply an affect that says how the total outcome is applied, Which Slow Fall does not do or care about. This ability is the one that cares what the damage number is and how it is applied and states specific rules on applying it after the calculation is already done. which means slow fall has done it's job.
We have said this many times. But you focus on words in slow fall like they are somehow unique. They are not. They are in fact mirrored in the falling rule. And the Falling rule then makes an exception of Specificity to falling damage. You also have a propensity to add words through implication to what slow fall is saying. Even though those words are not there.
I don't have to consider it at higher levels. Because the same can be true at low levels. It doesn't make it any more realistic in any way to say only one of the people takes the damage than it does two. Or that because the Monk understands and controls his body to the point that he can control how he falls to avoid damage should not also inadvertantly affect the person they fell on.
Your obsession over these numbers shows a possible intention to try and turn this into another attack without actually making an attack by purposely falling on another. That is clearly not the point or the intent of the Falling rule.
So Let me change tactics a little. The Feather Fall Spell. Functionally it is mostly the same thing as Slow Fall. Where it differs that It cannot affect multiple people all falling at the same time and it does not guarantee all damage will necessarily be negated but what it gets in return for that is it is a very low resource ability to use without having to worry about magic and the inherent problems that can come with spell casting.
By your interpretation. Because Slow Fall reduces the falling damage of the person that is falling. And Feather Fall reduces the damage of a person that is falling. Feather Fall should in fact deal damage to anybody that gets landed on from the fall with Feather Fall active. Yet that is clearly not what Feather Falls intent or the way it is worded says. Because the two in function in this regard are the same thing. Featherfall should not and does not deal damage to a person landed on and the Monk that uses Slow Fall may not necessarily deal damage to a person landed on for the exact same reason. Because they functionally reduce the damage of the Fall.
It also makes sense that if a monk knows how to fall in a way that is going to reduce impact. this reduction of Impact is going to work regardless of who or what they land on. And since it's not designed to make exception to deal damage to the things that are landed upon. There is no reason it should not effectively reduce damage inadvertently for anybody the monk lands on because the way they land is designed to reduce impact and injury. They are going to do it instinctively. They are not going to necessarily be able to reduce their own damage while dealing damage to another. If they are going to want to deal damage. they are going to want to not going to want to use their skill to soften the blow. So it makes sense that in attempting to deal that damage the monk would also take damage by not using slow fall at all.
Most of what you say is 100% correct and I have always agreed with and never disputed.
The sticking point for me is that the monk's slow fall does not reduce falling damage.
Let me state emphatically one more time... slow fall doesn't reduce falling damage.
Read it please, carefully. Slow Fall reduces falling damage the monk takes.
So it has to be:
1. Falling damage calculated based on height of fall.
2. Figure out if it's split or not.
3. Apply damage to monk and monk reduces damage it takes.
Falling onto a Creature
If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
...any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them (this doesn't say you take like the monk's slow fall, it says any damage is split evenly... so the full damage from falling is split and then the monk reduces the half he takes because that's what slow fall actually does... the 2nd creature takes half of the full falling damage having no ability to reduce this damage at all, and the monk can't reduce any of it for him because the monk's ability only works on the monk... it might not say 'only' but the 'you take' part clearly means this is for the monk alone.
If any damage resulting from the fall is to be split evenly, then applying Slow Fall only to the monk breaks the rule because you're not splitting the damage evenly.
You keep trying to rearrange the order here, and it just looks more and more ridiculous each time.
wooooo, this turned into a whole thing. as i said at the outset, i think either reading is defensible, and as always the answer is Ask Your DM, but i correctly suspected people would have strong feelings one way or the other.
The issue is, and always has been, timing. But there will always be certain people who will ignore the existing language, and invent new language, to justify their perspectives. But, fine, I'll start from scratch. First up is the general rule for falling.
And this is pretty easy to understand unto itself. But what's clear here is the damage isn't assessed until after the fall; at the moment of impact. Next, we'll look at the monk's feature.
The key phrase here is "when you fall." This feaure, this reaction, can only be used while falling. Arguably, it can only be used at the moment the monk begins to fall. The language is subtly different from, say, Feather Fall. And, despite what others might claim, it doesn't need the "only" qualifier. The monk falling is the trigger. And it reduces the damage the monk suffers. If the intent was to allow the monk to reduce the damage suffered by another falling creature, it would say so.
And, lastly, we look at the edge case of falling onto another creature.
The key here is, "any damage resulting from the fall is evenly divided between them." The damage has to be evenly applied; though there may be mitigating or aggrivating factors. But any damage resulting from the fall has already been reduced by the monk using Slow Fall. After all, if the impacted creature succeeded in their saving throw we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The monk would just take the damage.
Falling onto another creature is just another means of reducing the damage. It's not something for monk's to exploit by nullifying any damage they might take from the fall. It's rather plainly written to not condone such a course of action. But if you do want to try and weaponize a fall, there are options:
the whole point of the OP was that this could be weaponized... if you're just catching up now?
1. Roll up fall damage.
2. 2nd creature rolls his save.
3. If falling damage is split evenly the the 2nd creature takes his half and the monk takes his half... since the monk has an ability that allows him to reduce falling damage he takes he could indeed take nothing... but monks sometimes take nothing from falling anyway.
A 4th level monk can't take any damage from 30 foot falls (3d6 or 18 max). They reduce 20 falling damage that they take which makes it 0 so they're not even prone.
Except the monk can't reduce damage after the split because the monk already reduced damage before the split. The "split" is just another way for the monk to reduce their damage.
You're not transferring momentum to turn into a human cannonball. And it's, quite frankly, both irritating and ridiculous that there are still jackanapes this cheesy with the rules.
Lyxon... you're my hero..
SLOW FALL!!!
Brian No.
Your premise is flawed. Your beginning statement to come up with these arbitrary false rules of yours do not work. You cannot Say that it does not Reduce Damage and then immediately Declare it does reduce Damage. It is either one or the Other. It is not Both. And this is just another twisting of words to suit your end result. The Monks Damage is partly the other persons damage. You cannot escape this. Slow Fall Does reduce Damage. You cannot reduce this. We are not contradicting anything in any way that you are stating.
Your Creating Contradictions to force it to work for a single person only. And inadvertantly changing the order of operations to make it work the way that you wish by doing so.
while the Point of the OP may have been to suggest it might be weaponizable for discussions. The Truth of the Matter is that it is not weaponizable unless the Monk is willing to forgo using it's abilities and also take Damage. There is no way around this. It is not some kind of powerful surprise combat maneuver that's been created. If you even want to attempt such it is entirely at the risk of your own character because you will suffer damage as well. Twisting the Rules to Weaponize it does not change this fact.
As for Monks taking nothing from falls. Monks often take nothing from falls. This is nothing new or even out of the ordinary. People have been trying to weaponize various things about the monk's potential verticality for Decades and it's always worked out the same. Some work, some do not, And some are just too convoluted or niche to make practical. This just happens to be one that does not even if some players would like it to work.
It's funny how many times I have to state the fact that the monk's ability does not reduce damage, it reduces damage the monk takes. And until you know if the monk is taking the full damage from the fall or only half damage you cannot reduce anything yet, not to mention you only reduce when the monk takes the damage. So therefore you need to know if the 2nd creature makes the save or not. This means this step has to take place before the monk reduces damage. Since it takes place before the monk's damage is reduced the full and total fall damage is split evenly with the 2nd creature taking the full half of the falling damage. Luckily for the monk his damage reduction that affects only him and now reduces his falling damage that he takes.
RAW supports it. RAI doesn't. Rule of cool definitiely does.
Forget the Rule of Cool. It can be used to justify literally anything. That, alone, disqualifies it for this discussion. Stick to the RAW. And we've gone over it more times than I care to count. I really don't know why you keep going down this path, but whatever.
The monk's damage is reduced no matter what. There's no expressed stipulation that it can only reduce the damage the monk takes; you're inventing that. Regardless of when Slow Fall's reduction in damage takes place, it still reduces the monk's damage. This is the RAW. Stop making stuff up to justify your shenanigans.
Whether or not the damage taken by the monk is reduced further is determined by another creature. In other words, the impacted creature is just another way of reducing that fall damage. The monk isn't a humanoid cannonball who can simply transfer damage to another target and suffer nothing in return.
To allow what you want to allow is nothing more than a bad-faith interpretation of the rules to allow exploitative nonsense because you think it's cool. And that's never been a valid talking point when discussing the rules. If you want to throw the rules out the window to do whatever you think is fun, then fine. Just admit you're throwing out the rules.
fall
split
reduce
no.
Fall. Reduce. Split. That is the order of operations.
Also. No matter how many times you say it. A contradiction is still a contradiction and a bad faith argument. Doesn't matter how many times you say "this doesn't work but this does exactly what I said doesn't work but with stipulations I'm adding myself" Still does not work. If it doesn't Work then it doesn't work. period. If it does work then because of order of operations It works first. Just like Damage Reduction does. If you have damage reduction from something like the Heavy Armor Master Feat. It would apply first. Not last. Your Order is completely wrong. We are not breaking your imaginary rules. We are not breaking the rules by RaW.
Our Words do not change because the Truth does not change. No matter how much you throw fits at it and tell them to change or complain that nothing said is changing. Nothing said is changing because your not changing. Not because the rules are not changing.
Sort of like the way you keep saying the same thing doesn't make it so or true or especially a fact. It's just yours and a few others opinion. There are billions on this planet that will see it always matters how much damage you take. To know what the monk takes is important because there is a new rule from Tasha's that might split that evenly with the 2nd creature. Once you roll up the fall damage you then have the 2nd creature make a saving throw, if it fails the falling damage is split evenly and the monk's half can be reduced by the monk's slow fall... which 4th level and higher monk's can do all the time.
(out of curiosity what page number is the Order of Operations on?)