Just got acess to the new subclasses, and im not gona lie this subclass is subpar at best, 2d4 damage dex save ? Flight but not realy just a good jump(so many classes and races get actual flight by now), the higher level features have some niche use but they come online way too late, in the same bloody book we have the dragon born subrace that would make a better ascendant dragon monk if you simply picked up a fighter or barbarian with unarmed fighting style :/ How can they get the same thing both very right and very wrong in the same book
I love the UA version but now it just a average monk class. I much prefer mercy, shadow and open hand over official version anther miss opportunity in giving monk halo subclass.
Well mercy overall is a cut above the usual monk classes so i had hopes for this that they might have even buffed from UA since it felt like it needed a little boost to put it closer to mercy, something like that is exactly what the monk needs with how below average the base class is, but no they did the oposite they nerfed it couse the monk cant have nice things they will somehow break the game if they were any good aparently
Ahh yes being forced into leveling 2 stats just to have average AC, a con based stun and a bit of mobility on top of pidly fists that have the stoping power of a cat slap, pretty op, id understand if the base subclass has realy good features like the rogue/wizard or fighter but they dont :/
get a light crossbow and replace your flurries will be a dragonborn magic breath weapon and lv3 breath of the dragon feature. If you can get 2 dip go tempest cleric FOR MAX LIGHTNING Damage
yep crossbow monk flurrying at 30ft range with lightning dragons breath.
At 10 str you can push drag or lift 300lbs with WINGS UNFURLED at lv 6 ascendant dragon encumbered at 350 a goliath weights at max 340 if full flight movement 45ft monks unarmored movement
dwarfs are 150 most mediums are below dwarf weight and dragonborn is 250, firbolg is 300
centaur 600 base and and tortle 450 and loxodon 400
At 11 if you all huddle & swarm the badguy any aoe from enemy on party means 8 damage if you max lightning the 1d8martial die
so 8 x partySize of lightning damage
SO AT 11 YOUR PARTY BECOMES A LIGHTNING NUKE
at level 17 you become a 40 damage lightning nuke of 30ft radius and your breath of the dragon causes persistent 10 lightning damage every hostiles turn
I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU ALL BUT I LIKE THIS. And this is with no magic items and nothing that boosts your elemental damage. Pure dragonborn monk damage.
You are basing this on the UA version, not the official release. The UA version was pretty well received, most people agreed that it was not unbelievable powerful and it needed a little boost; but it appears that WotC and whoever filled their feedbacks (if they read it at all) must have believed that it was going to break the game and not comparable in power with other classes.
Lots of good shit for dragonborn yes, but yer better off with a diferent monk those items are not dragon monk specific, in general its horrible practice to try and fix a class with items they might never get
3 different UA feats, one of which is basically a worse Polearm Master, and another one that uses a weapon not-kensei monks cannot use and has a saving throw based on your Strength? Why are you trying to sell the Ascendant Dragon monk as way more than it is using UA content? Also those ASI levels would be better used in WIS and CON increases, since a Dragonborn Ascendant Dragon Monk wants to have their DC as high as possible now and DEX may be left for last.
I mean, if your DM is cool with using UA, that's ok, but even with that, it does not make the Official Ascendant Dragon Monk any better.
Wings Unfurled is a pretty garbage 6th level ability. So, 3 rounds per day I can pay a ki to effectively jump really high? Whoopteedoo.
It feels like they swapped the levels and of this and the breath weapon at 3rd, and then never updated the flight to actually be a worthwhile 6th level ability.
Don't get be wrong, it's SUPER thematic, very Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. And it would be fine if that were a 3rd level ability. But it's not.
If this lasted a minute, it might be worth it. If it lasted until your next turn and you could pay a ki to maintain it, it would be still be kinda weak, but at least ok.
But as it is, it's basically a dead level for an ability that's mostly fluff. And the monk already has too many abilities that are mostly fluff.
Wings Unfurled is a pretty garbage 6th level ability. So, 3 rounds per day I can pay a ki to effectively jump really high? Whoopteedoo.
It feels like they swapped the levels and of this and the breath weapon at 3rd, and then never updated the flight to actually be a worthwhile 6th level ability.
Don't get be wrong, it's SUPER thematic, very Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. And it would be fine if that were a 3rd level ability. But it's not.
If this lasted a minute, it might be worth it. If it lasted until your next turn and you could pay a ki to maintain it, it would be still be kinda weak, but at least ok.
But as it is, it's basically a dead level for an ability that's mostly fluff. And the monk already has too many abilities that are mostly fluff.
At least at 4th level with Slow Fall, you might not take damage.
I can actually see a couple of uses, but they're so corner case they'll never come up.
You can also tell they never bothered to review the ability. It cost Ki to use but you're limited to your PB / day.
Yeah, like, if it was just "you can fly on your turn when you use step of the wind" it would still be mostly a fluff feature. But then also limiting it to a number of times per day? So weird.
I do not understand the 6th level either....its mostly a fluffed up jump ability as you can't stay aloft which is mostly the point of flight speed.
Sure you can jump up and hit something up in the air I guess but you are also giving up your BA to do it so at best you are looking at 2 attacks and maybe a stun? It has its uses I guess but its not impressive by any means....and once you use them all its done and you can't spend ki to do it again which is a huge ?? on why that nerf was needed?
Like I also get you get a ton of 3D speed for the ki spent but once you hit 9th level you can run up walls anyway. Also at 6th level your casters have access to fly which means that they could just use that instead and give you all of your attacks to try and stun a in flight target.
Its not bad its just not great for the only feature you get at 6th level ....
How I would fix it:
Once per short rest you get flight speed equal to your walking speed. This lasts a number of rounds equal to your Prof. bonus.
Honestly I would rather have one shot at the flight speed per short rest and have it last a while longer so I can actually make use of it.
Thematically it is cool, but mechanically it is about on par with how 5e monks have been designed. Meaning, the mechanics of the build do not live up to the fantasy of what you would hope the subclass can deliver.
I think the subclass is okay if you make it with the new dragonborn abilities. If you are dragon born, having two breath weapon attacks as a part of the attack action starting at level 5 is UNIQUE (and being able to follow with flurry of blows) A dragon born at 17th level with the augment breath weapon feature of this subclass can do 8d10 damage (plus flurry of blows) for 6 rounds straight and one of those breath weapons is a very large area of effect. That is more damage than most monks can do and is why i think they generally nerfed the rest of the subclass. But most campaigns will never get to this point.
If you take any other race for this subclass its kinda meh...you are taking it for role playing, not for subclass abilities that will help you feel like a contributing member of the party. ☹😖
The dragon breath feature of this subclass does not really come online until level 11 when most campaigns are about to end. Before then it does not do much and you would be better off with stunning strike. Although i should note a stunned creature auto fails their saving throw against your breath weapon. That could come in handy.
Wings unfurled has to be one of the most dissapointing subclass abilities there is. Written as is, it should probably be a third level ability, but certainly not 6th. Other classes get flight at 6th level and monk gets to jump farther. Why restrict the use of this feature when ki is a very limited resource anyways? I dont get it. The designers dropped the ball on this one.
The aspect of the wyrm feature at 11th level is meh. A bonus action to cause fear is okay i guess but the monk already has too many options with its bonus action that i think this is where the poor mechanics prevents this feature from being better. When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike they must save or be frightened would have made more sense. Or someting similar to what long death gets at level 6 but stronger. The most comparable feature from another subclass is the warlocks form of dread that warlocks get at 1st level. When you compare the two it just seems like they are deliberately trying to make monks weak for some reason. I just dont get it.
The resistance part of this feature is okay. However on some of those damage types if you make your saving thow evasion means you are taking no damage anyways......but giving resistance to other party members that you will never be within 10 feet of could have some circumstantial benefit.🙄🙄
Augment breath weapon at 17th level is great. Blindsight is also great. Even if it is only 10 feet its still better than not having it. So i like it. Explosive fury, 3d10 damage save for zero is very close to what astral monk gets at level 3 which i think at 17th level would be 2d10 damage save for zero. Do they even look at what other subclasses get as comparable abilities at similar levels? Oh boy......
Overall, design wise I think it was a mistake to make the dragons breath part of the attack action. It seems neat at first but no. I think a stronger breath weapon effect taken as an action PB times per day, and flight for even one minute PB times per day is what is needed to bring this subclass up to a level that makes you feel like the subclass lives up to the fantasy.
Most campaigns are lower level and so a monks level 3 and 6 abilities should be core features that can be used regularly. But the ascendent dragon subclass does not really give you anything valuable at these levels and so even though the theme is cool, i think for most people it will feel like it falls short.
Don’t oversell the 8d10 at 17 level. Its really two 4d10 attacks. Probably with varying saves as well, one based on your con and the other on your wis. All that also assumes dragonborn.
I think your points are valid, but you’re overselling the slight good. The level 6 ability is just crap. Why limit a jump = move to PB / day and have it cost Ki?
The aura range at level 11 matches that of a paladin at level 6, but a paladins aura extends to 30’ later where the monk’s remains at 10'.
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Just got acess to the new subclasses, and im not gona lie this subclass is subpar at best, 2d4 damage dex save ? Flight but not realy just a good jump(so many classes and races get actual flight by now), the higher level features have some niche use but they come online way too late, in the same bloody book we have the dragon born subrace that would make a better ascendant dragon monk if you simply picked up a fighter or barbarian with unarmed fighting style :/ How can they get the same thing both very right and very wrong in the same book
I love the UA version but now it just a average monk class. I much prefer mercy, shadow and open hand over official version anther miss opportunity in giving monk halo subclass.
Well mercy overall is a cut above the usual monk classes so i had hopes for this that they might have even buffed from UA since it felt like it needed a little boost to put it closer to mercy, something like that is exactly what the monk needs with how below average the base class is, but no they did the oposite they nerfed it couse the monk cant have nice things they will somehow break the game if they were any good aparently
I believe that WoTC must think base class features are to op so let’s make bad subclasses lol
Ahh yes being forced into leveling 2 stats just to have average AC, a con based stun and a bit of mobility on top of pidly fists that have the stoping power of a cat slap, pretty op, id understand if the base subclass has realy good features like the rogue/wizard or fighter but they dont :/
we shouldn’t have to rely on multi classing to make a subclass strong.
Yes you can make a better dragonmonk by using the new dragonborns, and not using monk at all
It is, overall, just another sad monk subclass.
I would rank it above way of the four elements and sunsoul, but no higher.
You are basing this on the UA version, not the official release. The UA version was pretty well received, most people agreed that it was not unbelievable powerful and it needed a little boost; but it appears that WotC and whoever filled their feedbacks (if they read it at all) must have believed that it was going to break the game and not comparable in power with other classes.
They saw that the class might not be another four elements monk, they cant have that they so they got to fixin it
Lots of good shit for dragonborn yes, but yer better off with a diferent monk those items are not dragon monk specific, in general its horrible practice to try and fix a class with items they might never get
3 different UA feats, one of which is basically a worse Polearm Master, and another one that uses a weapon not-kensei monks cannot use and has a saving throw based on your Strength? Why are you trying to sell the Ascendant Dragon monk as way more than it is using UA content? Also those ASI levels would be better used in WIS and CON increases, since a Dragonborn Ascendant Dragon Monk wants to have their DC as high as possible now and DEX may be left for last.
I mean, if your DM is cool with using UA, that's ok, but even with that, it does not make the Official Ascendant Dragon Monk any better.
A cool flavour opportunity though: slime-kun from a certain anime - using acid damage.
Bearing in mind this is very subpar build, but probably fun with a custom lineage to be a small slime or a Plasmoid from most recent UA
Wings Unfurled is a pretty garbage 6th level ability. So, 3 rounds per day I can pay a ki to effectively jump really high? Whoopteedoo.
It feels like they swapped the levels and of this and the breath weapon at 3rd, and then never updated the flight to actually be a worthwhile 6th level ability.
Don't get be wrong, it's SUPER thematic, very Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. And it would be fine if that were a 3rd level ability. But it's not.
If this lasted a minute, it might be worth it. If it lasted until your next turn and you could pay a ki to maintain it, it would be still be kinda weak, but at least ok.
But as it is, it's basically a dead level for an ability that's mostly fluff. And the monk already has too many abilities that are mostly fluff.
Thematically, pretty solid.
Mechanically, pretty lame.
At least at 4th level with Slow Fall, you might not take damage.
I can actually see a couple of uses, but they're so corner case they'll never come up.
You can also tell they never bothered to review the ability. It cost Ki to use but you're limited to your PB / day.
Yeah, like, if it was just "you can fly on your turn when you use step of the wind" it would still be mostly a fluff feature. But then also limiting it to a number of times per day? So weird.
I do not understand the 6th level either....its mostly a fluffed up jump ability as you can't stay aloft which is mostly the point of flight speed.
Sure you can jump up and hit something up in the air I guess but you are also giving up your BA to do it so at best you are looking at 2 attacks and maybe a stun? It has its uses I guess but its not impressive by any means....and once you use them all its done and you can't spend ki to do it again which is a huge ?? on why that nerf was needed?
Like I also get you get a ton of 3D speed for the ki spent but once you hit 9th level you can run up walls anyway. Also at 6th level your casters have access to fly which means that they could just use that instead and give you all of your attacks to try and stun a in flight target.
Its not bad its just not great for the only feature you get at 6th level ....
How I would fix it:
Once per short rest you get flight speed equal to your walking speed. This lasts a number of rounds equal to your Prof. bonus.
Honestly I would rather have one shot at the flight speed per short rest and have it last a while longer so I can actually make use of it.
Thematically it is cool, but mechanically it is about on par with how 5e monks have been designed. Meaning, the mechanics of the build do not live up to the fantasy of what you would hope the subclass can deliver.
I think the subclass is okay if you make it with the new dragonborn abilities. If you are dragon born, having two breath weapon attacks as a part of the attack action starting at level 5 is UNIQUE (and being able to follow with flurry of blows) A dragon born at 17th level with the augment breath weapon feature of this subclass can do 8d10 damage (plus flurry of blows) for 6 rounds straight and one of those breath weapons is a very large area of effect. That is more damage than most monks can do and is why i think they generally nerfed the rest of the subclass. But most campaigns will never get to this point.
If you take any other race for this subclass its kinda meh...you are taking it for role playing, not for subclass abilities that will help you feel like a contributing member of the party. ☹😖
The dragon breath feature of this subclass does not really come online until level 11 when most campaigns are about to end. Before then it does not do much and you would be better off with stunning strike. Although i should note a stunned creature auto fails their saving throw against your breath weapon. That could come in handy.
Wings unfurled has to be one of the most dissapointing subclass abilities there is. Written as is, it should probably be a third level ability, but certainly not 6th. Other classes get flight at 6th level and monk gets to jump farther. Why restrict the use of this feature when ki is a very limited resource anyways? I dont get it. The designers dropped the ball on this one.
The aspect of the wyrm feature at 11th level is meh. A bonus action to cause fear is okay i guess but the monk already has too many options with its bonus action that i think this is where the poor mechanics prevents this feature from being better. When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike they must save or be frightened would have made more sense. Or someting similar to what long death gets at level 6 but stronger. The most comparable feature from another subclass is the warlocks form of dread that warlocks get at 1st level. When you compare the two it just seems like they are deliberately trying to make monks weak for some reason. I just dont get it.
The resistance part of this feature is okay. However on some of those damage types if you make your saving thow evasion means you are taking no damage anyways......but giving resistance to other party members that you will never be within 10 feet of could have some circumstantial benefit.🙄🙄
Augment breath weapon at 17th level is great. Blindsight is also great. Even if it is only 10 feet its still better than not having it. So i like it. Explosive fury, 3d10 damage save for zero is very close to what astral monk gets at level 3 which i think at 17th level would be 2d10 damage save for zero. Do they even look at what other subclasses get as comparable abilities at similar levels? Oh boy......
Overall, design wise I think it was a mistake to make the dragons breath part of the attack action. It seems neat at first but no. I think a stronger breath weapon effect taken as an action PB times per day, and flight for even one minute PB times per day is what is needed to bring this subclass up to a level that makes you feel like the subclass lives up to the fantasy.
Most campaigns are lower level and so a monks level 3 and 6 abilities should be core features that can be used regularly. But the ascendent dragon subclass does not really give you anything valuable at these levels and so even though the theme is cool, i think for most people it will feel like it falls short.
Don’t oversell the 8d10 at 17 level. Its really two 4d10 attacks. Probably with varying saves as well, one based on your con and the other on your wis. All that also assumes dragonborn.
I think your points are valid, but you’re overselling the slight good. The level 6 ability is just crap. Why limit a jump = move to PB / day and have it cost Ki?
The aura range at level 11 matches that of a paladin at level 6, but a paladins aura extends to 30’ later where the monk’s remains at 10'.