So it’s still a few years away before they release the “New Evolution” of D&D but if you had a say in the matter, as far as the Monk core class (not subclasses) is concerned, what would you like to see.
For me, monk has been my favorite class since 1E AD&D, but I haven’t had a chance to play one in 5E. So my suggestions just come from the reading of the class and my own opinions. And I think overall the class is fine (I would consider myself a casual optimizer so I don’t think they suck like many optimizers say). But here are a couple things I would change.
1. Make Step of the Wind free of Ki cost. Rogues can dash and disengage as a bonus action and so should a monk. I actually think monks would still make more of a sacrifice than rogues do as they lose out using their BA unarmed strike feature or their BA Flurry of Blows feature. Rogue core class has no BA feature outside of Cunning Action. Patient Defense is a powerful feature so I can see it still costing a Ki, but wouldn’t complain if it was free.
2. change Stillness of Mind so it can be used even if you can’t control your action (Dominate Person, for example, allows the controller to force actions so the monk cannot use Stillness of Mind). Or, if that’s too much to do, maybe the feature gives advantage against charm and frightened initial and ongoing saves.
3. Monks are MAD (multiple attribute dependent) with DEX and WIS, with CON being important as well. Maybe base DC’s off of DEX and AC based off of something else. One thought is DEX plus Proficiency Bonus, but that could prompt 1 level monk dips so another idea is a fixed base AC on the monk table. Something like 1st level 13+DEX, 5th level 14+DEX, 11th level 15+ DEX, and 17th level 16+DEX, for example.
Anyway, what would all of you monk fans out there like to see come 2024 release?
Not a monk fan in particular, but here's what I'd do if I had a magic wand to wave (not in any particular oder):
1. Slice off the d4 damage start for your fists and start it off as a d6 and go to d12, optionally making it 2d12 as 20th. Or could go 1d8 at 1st, 1d10 at 5th, 2d8 at 11th, 2d10 at 17th, optionally 2d12 at 20th.
2. Another ASI at 10th level. Honestly, pure martials (not half casters like pallies and rangers) should all get extra ASIs if they don't have that already tbh.
3. Step of the Wind is free, maybe throwing back your deflected missile would be free too.
4. Get something better for perfect self. Like??? It's just a free refill??? That's it? That's what you get for sticking through TWENTY WHOLE LEVELS in what is argued to be the worst class in the game? So far what I got is let them just cast teleport and/or planeshift on themselves for free, along with the refill ability. Call it "Ascension" or something idk. Gotta open up your chakras.
5. Get some of those abilities like the optional barbarian feature that gives you more proficiencies from your class' skill list.
I think your unarmored defense idea of a base AC is really good and really helps solve the whole MAD issue.
I think Martial Arts Dice needs an increase. Something like 1D6/1D8/2D6/3D6.
Agreed that Step of the Wind shouldn't cost Ki. Having it use a bonus action is more than sufficient.
I think you should be able to use Stunning Strike a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. Additional uses can then cost Ki.
For Way of Shadow, you should be able to cast each of the Shadow Arts spells once per long rest then any additional uses cost Ki.
Way of Four Elements needs a different resource for their elemental spells altogether. Whether that's spell slots or a separate pool of points (chi? Element points?) I'm not picky. But it seems messed up that Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters get spell slots but Four Elements Monks have to choose between using class features or sub-class features.
Personally I think the Monk doesn't really need much at lower levels; the class actually starts out quite strong, but its core progression slows over time. That said, keep in mind that increased Ki points means a Monk can be using Ki every round without much concern for running out.
I don't know about Step of the Wind not costing Ki as the Monk is already fast; your average double-dashing Rogue can do 90 feet in a turn, but your average Monk can single-dash up to 80 feet from 2nd level, and only gets faster from there; when we double dash we make the Rogue look like an out of shape gelatinous cube.
Personally my main fixes would be:
Allow Unarmored Defence to use either Dexterity or Strength (to allow for Strength based Monks).
Change save proficiencies from STR/DEX to DEX/WIS. This is a boost since it would mean two common proficiencies, but gives some inbuilt defence against charm/fear from an earlier level, to be built upon by other features for near immunity.
Allow Monk Weapons to include all simple weapons plus shortswords (including darts), with Dedicated Weapon reserved for use in elevating a single non-shortsword martial weapon for characters trained to use one.
Allow the use of a glaive or pike with Kensei Weapon; this allows for better use of Polearm Expert, but with the built-in tradeoff being that you may be out of range to use Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows etc. Only the Kensei would be getting proficiency with their feature though, other Monks would need to obtain somehow (training, feat etc.).
Martial Arts damage should increase to d8 at 9th level, d10 at 13th and d12 at 17th (increases every four levels rather than weirdly slowing down).
When you use Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows, you may replace one unarmed strike with an attack using an off-hand weapon (as for two-weapon fighting). Given the light requirement and the fact that martial arts die will eliminate any damage difference this is only a minor boost without magic weapons, but makes a twin weapon Monk more viable.
Diamond Soul should be moved to 9th level alongside the unarmored movement improvement, but initially only granting INT/CHA save proficiency. At 14th it would level up to all save proficiencies with the 1 Ki re-rolls as normal.
Clarify Stillness of Mind. The way I believe it's supposed to work is that the Monk needs to be aware they are charmed, or that something is wrong, before they can consciously take an action to end it, but far too many players/DMs treat it as an action to just "nope" ever being charmed/frightened. It should never be that easy, as the whole reason charm/fear are dangerous is because they override your character's normal behaviour (and characters don't even know they are charmed).
Have Purity of Body function like Stillness of Mind; i.e- action to clear one disease, poison or the poisoned condition. This action can be used when incapacitated (for the nastier poisons).
Add an Ability Score Increase at 10th level (this is why Purity of Body is no longer full immunity).
Add a new ability at 13th level called Counterstrike or such; when an enemy misses you with a melee attack you may spend one Ki to make an Unarmed Strike against them as a reaction. This keeps Monk attacks scaling (up to 5 in a round) and combos well with Patient Defence which normally trades attacks for defence, plus since it makes you less likely to be hit (great on a relatively squishy d8 hit die martial) it would make the attack more likely for 3 in a round even while in patient defence mode.
Add an Improved Purity of Body at 15th level (to go alongside the usually pointless Timeless Body) expanding Purity of Body to also allow removing the blinded*, deafened*, paralyzed or stunned condition when it affects the player directly (i.e- can't cancel blindness/deafness caused by a lingering area effect).
Change Perfect Self as follows "Whenever you roll Initiative you will always have at least 4 Ki points"; now it doesn't matter if you've got one or two Ki left. I think we could still do with something extra to make this a proper capstone, but with the more consistent progression it's less of an issue.
I know it looks like a lot, but really the Monk is IMO fine in lower tiers of play, it's the higher tiers that most players don't make it to where they have a lot of features that feel like wasted levels since they're just too situational. For example, many campaigns will never have you worry about ageing, and it's usually not that hard to get food and water so Timeless Body is a bit weird as the only feature for an entire level.
In general what WotC need to be looking at for each class is ensuring that every level improves the class' combat potential. Once they've done that they can then scatter in out-of-combat abilities to ensure everyone has some things they can be good at when not fighting.
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In my initial post I forgot that, I too, would like to see the damage die increased starting at d6 and going to d12 but I also like some others ideas in die combinations.
@Haravikk,
I really wasn’t too concerned about the dash option making them too fast, they were already the fastest class out there. I don’t think they need a limit and they are already paying the price of losing out on their BA features that a rogue is not.
I like your other ideas. A polearm option for monk would be nice. But wonder if it should be only Kensei or, for Kensei, take away the restrictions (lack heavy or special property)
One change that I would like is to have the number of unarmed attaks in Flurry of Blows to scale up as you level... ie: match Proficiency Bonus, or 3 attacks at level 10 and 3 attacks at level 17, etc
--- if additional unarmed strikes does not get implemented to unarmed strikes, than increasing the martial art die is acceptable
Allow for monks to use Grapple or Shove attacks with their Dex, and include it as a martial art trait
Allow Unarmored Defence to use either Dexterity or Strength (to allow for Strength based Monks).
Allow the use of a glaive or pike with Dedicated Weapon and Kensei Weapon; this allows for better use of Polearm Expert, but with the built-in tradeoff being that you may be out of range to use Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows etc. Only the Kensei would be getting proficiency with their feature though, other Monks would need to obtain somehow (training, feat etc.).
Martial Arts damage should increase to d8 at 9th level, d10 at 13th and d12 at 17th (increases every four levels rather than weirdly slowing down).
Diamond Soul should be moved to 9th level alongside the unarmored movement improvement, but initially only granting Wisdom and Charisma save proficiency. At 14th it would level up to all save proficiencies with the 1 Ki re-rolls as normal.
Clarify Stillness of Mind. The way I believe it's supposed to work is that the Monk needs to be aware they are charmed, or that something is wrong, before they can consciously take an action to end it, but far too many players/DMs treat it as an action to just "nope" ever being charmed/frightened. It should never be that easy, as the whole reason charm/fear are dangerous is because they override your character's normal behaviour (and characters don't even know they are charmed).
Have Purity of Body function like Stillness of Mind; i.e- action to clear one disease, poison or the poisoned condition. This action can be used when incapacitated (for the nastier poisons).
Add an Ability Score Increase at 10th level (this is why Purity of Body is no longer full immunity).
Add a new ability at 13th level called Counterstrike or such; when an enemy misses you with a melee attack you may spend one Ki to make an Unarmed Strike against them as a reaction. This keeps Monk attacks scaling (up to 5 in a round) and combos well with Patient Defence which normally trades attacks for defence, plus since it makes you less likely to be hit (great on a relatively squishy d8 hit die martial) it would make the attack more likely for 3 in a round even while in patient defence mode.
Add an Improved Purity of Body at 15th level (to go alongside the usually pointless Timeless Body) expanding Purity of Body to also allow removing the blinded*, deafened*, [Tooltip Not Found] or stunned condition when it affects the player directly (i.e- can't cancel blindness/deafness caused by a lingering area effect).
I made a document of a bunch of Monk fixes I slote from various sources, this covers most of them but here's some of the other ones I've found.
Never actually played any of these, and probably will be sticking to RAW anyways, but it's fun to experiment with balance changes and stuff like that. So keep in mind none of these have been playtested by me and are purely theoretical as of now.
Treatmonk stuff: Versatile weapons held in two hands do +1 damage only if they're using the martial die.
Dedicated Weapon at level 1 instead of 2, little difference to DPR but feels weird to start with a quarterstaff then switch weapons.
Step of the Wind is both Disengage & Dash
Counterstrike being a part of Deflect Projectiles. Same mechanics as deflect projectiles but instead of using a ki point to take their weapon you just make a single unarmed strike.
Unarmored Movement Improvement grants disadvantage on Attacks of Opportunity made against you. (tempted to move this one earlier, but I have a irrational fear of making monk dips too good)
11th level, if you take a BA that expends ki, you can make a additional Unarmed Strike as part of that BA (altered a bit to include all ki-related BAs)
Move Timless Body to 13th level and at level 15 you gain temp hp equal to your Monk level after a rest (a part of me fears a tier 3 party would already have a source of temp hp, but it's probably fine)
Better capstone, can copy Barbarian (+4 WIS & DEX but is boring and already done); Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind no longer use ki; copy warlock take a minute to regain all ki; 11th level feature but two additional Unarmed Strikes instead of one; etc. Obviously only use one of these not all of them.
Some of the fixes I found interesting but I don't personally like
Treatmonk stuff: treatmonk's martial die scaling (d6 d8 2d6 3d6) just gives me a weird reaction; allowing Martial Arts to work with light/medium armor is probably fine (monks don't get natural prof.), light armor would go unused for most monks with a WIS higher than +1, and medium armor might do a decent job at combating MAD but gives me the same weird reaction.
d10 hit die. I really want to give monks a d8 because they're skirmishers and should have the same hit dice of other skirmishers like rogues, but at the same time Monks are very MAD and a d10 hit die would allow them to get away with lesser CON.
Variant Stunning Strike, more reliable save but lesser effect (WIS saving throw or target suffers the effects of the Slow spell, same save after every turn & obv no concentration). Is actually pretty nice, although others noted that it's significantly more wordy.
Your Diamond Soul fix. Probably fine on your monk fix, but considering my version of the monk fix already has a upgraded UMI and 11th level feature, I'd probably just limit it to WIS saving throws or keep it the way it is.
Stillness of Mind, most DMs interpret it as a instant anti-charm because otherwise it's completely useless. What charm effects do you know that 1. explicitly tell the charmed that they are charmed, and 2. allows them to use their action freely? Your interpretation also results in a lot of DM fiat, DM basically has to decide for each charm effect on a case-by-case situation and then what it takes to make a target realize they're charmed. Besides, it using a action is already devastating enough. Thematically it makes sense Monks should almost never get charmed or get frightened.
Sources: mostly lurking on reddit & these forums. Also the treatmonk monk video was alright. I do keep track of all the reddit threads and comments these ideas are from and can post them if anyone wants but I don't think it's really necessary.
The difficulties with the current edition of monk abilities is MAD and durability. Here are my ideas that would hopefully maintain balance.
Grant monks proficiency with light armor, allowing martial arts to work with it. Then some monk builds can be primarily DEX, allowing for a different secondary stat than WIS.
Change unarmored defense to 10+(WIS mod)+(proficiency bonus). This scales at about the same rate as the current unarmored defense. Now some monk builds can be primarily WIS, allowing for a different secondary stat than DEX. Because this would be a tempting dip for clerics/druids, it should not be available at level 1. Or maybe just available if you start as monk. Unarmored defense should still not work with shields.
After the changes above, the multiclassing requirements can be changed to 13 dex OR 13 wis.
As has been mentioned before, monks need a free bonus action disengage. There is a reason the mobile feat is popular for monks. I am not sure if the bonus action dash should require Ki or not. The bonus action dodge definitely should require Ki.
Some fighting styles should be available to monks. Blind fighting and Druidic Warrior are thematically appropriate. Thrown weapon fighting makes darts more interesting. Blind fighting and shadow monk may be too cheesy though.
To simplify rules, I think the phase "monk weapons" should be eliminated. Replacing it with "melee weapons" or "melee attack" would not cause balance concerns.
I would consider giving monks proficiency in martial melee weapons.
I considered a d10 hit die, but find it to not have enough flavor. The AC fixes and bonus action disengage should suffice for durability.
To simplify rules, I think the phase "monk weapons" should be eliminated. Replacing it with "melee weapons" or "melee attack" would not cause balance concerns.
And of course I forgot that letting dexterity be used with heavy weapons can be abused. I just can’t remember precisely how.
I feel like the Monk needs an identity outside of combat. I'd like to see some feature that would let them calm down potential opponents, or observe some facet of the environment that others can't, or share wisdom to help with knowledge checks or something. They're supposed to be more than just Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, but they're really not.
In combat, I think there needs to be some work done to move Monk away from "hit stuff" and towards "get fancy." I'm not much of a class designer but I would think the simplest way would be to replace all the multiattack stuff with specialized super moves.
I also would like to see a STR build as a viable option. you could use a form of fighting based off of animals, like bear, gorilla, tiger, and fight with STR. Or the bruiser for a crime syndicate who is adventuring on a mission for their boss. But maybe that could be a subclass, (edit: the STR build, not the bruiser) kind of like Astral Self that can focus more on WIS. Having to focus on DEX and WIS makes STR builds less of an option
Personally I hope they do something with the MAD classes. Looking at the multiclassing prerequisites there are three “AND” classes, monk, paladin, and Ranger with DEX “and” WIS or STR “and” CHA requirements. Make the classes with one primary stat and base the class features off of that. Barbarians only need STR although their unarmored defense is DEX and CON. But they have access to light and medium armor so they can focus on STR which their rage uses.
If they could do something to improve two weapon fighting and apply that to martial arts attacks, it would go a long way towards making monks feel more unique and meaningful in combat.
If they could do something to improve two weapon fighting and apply that to martial arts attacks, it would go a long way towards making monks feel more unique and meaningful in combat.
I don't understand your meaning at all. Monks can already do the equivalent of two weapon fighting when unarmed attacks -- that is, they can make one as a bonus action after attacking. (Or two if they spend ki.) What are you imagining that's different?
If they could do something to improve two weapon fighting and apply that to martial arts attacks, it would go a long way towards making monks feel more unique and meaningful in combat.
I don't understand your meaning at all. Monks can already do the equivalent of two weapon fighting when unarmed attacks -- that is, they can make one as a bonus action after attacking. (Or two if they spend ki.) What are you imagining that's different?
Yes, martial arts is just two weapon fighting, but worse in a few ways. Less use of enchanted weapons, and slowly improving martial arts dice.
They can spend resources for flurry of blows, yes, but it takes resources and is still tied to that slowly improving, unenchanted martial arts di and unarmed attack.
Two weapon fighting was purposefully designed to be nerfed in 5e, and it was made a built in feature of monks. So a more exciting version of two weapon fighting (and martial arts) would be more exciting for monk's too.
Maybe two weapon fighting could scale with extra attack, with more offhand attacks. Especially for monks, since they don't pose the same danger of abusing magic weapons.
Or maybe it could be tied to dexterity, with each +2 equaling an additional offhand attack. And maybe the monk capstone can be changed to an additional +2 Dex and +2 Wis, like the Barb's +2 Strength and +2 Con.
Stillness of Mind, most DMs interpret it as a instant anti-charm because otherwise it's completely useless. What charm effects do you know that 1. explicitly tell the charmed that they are charmed
Of course charm effects don't make you aware, that's literally their point; they forcibly change your behaviour, you are no longer in control of everything you do. The way you detect charm is when you're given requests that seem unreasonable within the context; for example, if an effect onlycharms you then it doesn't make you regard someone as a friend, it just prevents you from attacking them and makes you more easily suggestible. So if they ask you to do something that is very out of character for you to do for a stranger/unfriendly acquaintance, and the persuasion fails, then you should absolutely become aware that something is wrong. Likewise a charmed creature can always push for insight checks when something is clearly amiss, and should do exactly that, especially for long-running charm effects.
The ability is far from useless, as the moment you become aware something is wrong, you can use it to immediately end the effect as an action; the only other characters that can do this are casters with Dispel Magic (and only if the charm comes from a spell) or Berserker Barbarians (for whom it's an entire level's feature, though their protection extends to full immunity while raging). While yes, if you can't take an action then none of these can end the effect, that's definitely intended to be the case, though actually very few charm effects fully prevent actions. Also worth remembering that you're not the only one who can or should break the effect; your allies are allowed to do-so, or to take actions to try to make you aware of it if you are somehow the only one able to do something about it (or they can go after the caster etc.). No character needs to be able to end charm on themselves, and certainly not automatically, otherwise you eliminate a massive chunk of abilities and spells from the game entirely.
I'm certain that this is how it's intended to work as you need to be aware of something before you can reasonably take an action to get rid of it, and you are not aware of spells unless they have a clear perceptible effect (which charm is not, as only others can perceive a change in your behaviour). Also remember that Stillness of Mind is a secondary ability granted at the same level as Evasion, Rogues also get Evasion and alongside that they only get a small scaling up of their Sneak Attack; Monks meanwhile get Evasion, another Ki point and also Stillness of Mind, so I find it impossible to believe that it's intended to be as powerful as people want it to be. But to be clear, what I'm proposing is not a change in behaviour, I believe this is how it is intended to work already, I'm proposing that it be clarified so that the ambiguity around it can be put to rest once and for all because the fact that any ambiguity/misinterpretation exists at all is a flaw in the feature.
Anyway, I'd rather not get into another circular discussion about it; I'm proposing that it be clarified, because it should be.
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The “charmed” condition doesn’t explicitly rely on knowledge or lack of knowledge about being charmed. Some spells suggest you know and can do little about it like mind control, some suggest you might not but still can do little about it.
the bigger issue is with what charm spells would even allow someone to purposefully break them. You can’t both be charmed and not charmed
Two weapon fighting was purposefully designed to be nerfed in 5e, and it was made a built in feature of monks. So a more exciting version of two weapon fighting (and martial arts) would be more exciting for monk's too.
Personally I think that two-weapon fighting in 5e is fine as it is; the only characters for whom it's a problem really are Fighters, because they get more attacks at higher levels so the extra one for two-weapon fighting becomes less significant to them. Any "fix" for two-weapon fighting therefore should be fighter specific., and even then I'm not sure I'd personally ask for anything, as an extra attack is still an extra attack, it may only be 25% extra on four attacks, but that's still five attacks in a turn, which means more chances to hit/less impact if you miss.
There are also so many ways to get extra damage on attacks in 5e, this is partly why Flurry of Blows can be so good; if you can pick up Divine Favor, Hex or Hunter's Mark for yourself via a feat or multiclassing, or an ally can use Crusader's Mantle or similar, then with four attacks in a round you can really maximise the bonus damage you're getting from 5th level onwards. This is why extra attacks should be limited in 5e. That's why I was thinking only a reaction attack costing Ki, as it's still limited that way.
Regarding two-weapon fighting specifically for Monks, I do kind of agree that it'd be nice to have a way to use two weapons a bit more viably on the Monk; personally I'd maybe just tweak Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows so that one of the attacks can be made using your off-hand weapon if you have one, basically gives you two-weapon fighting for free. At higher levels it doesn't really matter what you use anyway, because the monk damage dice will override all damage differences eventually, so the main difference really is that if you found two light magic weapons then you could use them.
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The “charmed” condition doesn’t explicitly rely on knowledge or lack of knowledge about being charmed.
Stillness of Mind does though; you have to choose an effect to end, but if your character is not aware of one, why they would make a conscious choice to end something that they are not aware of?
The rules for spell targets states that unless a spell has a perceptible effect, you do not know one was cast unless the spell specifically says otherwise, this is why the likes of Charm Person explicitly say that the target becomes aware that they were charmed. This is a big part of what makes charm effects dangerous, but again, it's not only the target that needs to be aware of it; your party members can spot altered behaviour and take action accordingly, either to make you aware, or to break the effect themselves. Like most rules they are not designed for a 1v1 white room.
The fact that the charmed condition persists even once you are aware of it (in most cases) is why Stillness of Mind is not rendered useless by following these rules, because most other characters that become aware they are charmed cannot do anything about it; but a Monk can.
Again though, this is why I want it clarified in the Stillness of Mind feature itself, i.e- "one effect you are aware of", ideally with corresponding changes in the charmed and/or spellcasting rules to clarify how exactly these are intended to be played, as currently it requires players to not only be aware of all of these things, but to think them through to a degree that most won't because for most it comes up during a session and you just make snap judgements; it needs some clear lines that state (and restate as necessary) unambiguously how it is supposed to work. Basically the way it is now Stillness of Mind requires you to know a lot of other rules in order to fully understand what it (probably) is telling you, but that's no good for the 99% of players and DMs who only know the rules "well enough", because we're not all D&D scholars with eidetic memories, so sometimes little reminders make sense in these types of rules, and help clarify things.
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That is only one factor though. To use Stillness of Mind, you need to not only know you are charmed, but be able to act in a way contrary to the charm's effect.
If you suddenly feel that the hag across from you is your best friend because you failed the save for Charm Person, and know they are causing you to have that feeling, that still doesn't explain why you would act contrary to the charmed condition to break the charm. So far as you are concerned, your best comrade may as well have cast bless on you, because your mind is actively being altered.
And that is the least mind controllish of charm spells.
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So it’s still a few years away before they release the “New Evolution” of D&D but if you had a say in the matter, as far as the Monk core class (not subclasses) is concerned, what would you like to see.
For me, monk has been my favorite class since 1E AD&D, but I haven’t had a chance to play one in 5E. So my suggestions just come from the reading of the class and my own opinions. And I think overall the class is fine (I would consider myself a casual optimizer so I don’t think they suck like many optimizers say). But here are a couple things I would change.
1. Make Step of the Wind free of Ki cost. Rogues can dash and disengage as a bonus action and so should a monk. I actually think monks would still make more of a sacrifice than rogues do as they lose out using their BA unarmed strike feature or their BA Flurry of Blows feature. Rogue core class has no BA feature outside of Cunning Action. Patient Defense is a powerful feature so I can see it still costing a Ki, but wouldn’t complain if it was free.
2. change Stillness of Mind so it can be used even if you can’t control your action (Dominate Person, for example, allows the controller to force actions so the monk cannot use Stillness of Mind). Or, if that’s too much to do, maybe the feature gives advantage against charm and frightened initial and ongoing saves.
3. Monks are MAD (multiple attribute dependent) with DEX and WIS, with CON being important as well. Maybe base DC’s off of DEX and AC based off of something else. One thought is DEX plus Proficiency Bonus, but that could prompt 1 level monk dips so another idea is a fixed base AC on the monk table. Something like 1st level 13+DEX, 5th level 14+DEX, 11th level 15+ DEX, and 17th level 16+DEX, for example.
Anyway, what would all of you monk fans out there like to see come 2024 release?
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Not a monk fan in particular, but here's what I'd do if I had a magic wand to wave (not in any particular oder):
1. Slice off the d4 damage start for your fists and start it off as a d6 and go to d12, optionally making it 2d12 as 20th. Or could go 1d8 at 1st, 1d10 at 5th, 2d8 at 11th, 2d10 at 17th, optionally 2d12 at 20th.
2. Another ASI at 10th level. Honestly, pure martials (not half casters like pallies and rangers) should all get extra ASIs if they don't have that already tbh.
3. Step of the Wind is free, maybe throwing back your deflected missile would be free too.
4. Get something better for perfect self. Like??? It's just a free refill??? That's it? That's what you get for sticking through TWENTY WHOLE LEVELS in what is argued to be the worst class in the game? So far what I got is let them just cast teleport and/or planeshift on themselves for free, along with the refill ability. Call it "Ascension" or something idk. Gotta open up your chakras.
5. Get some of those abilities like the optional barbarian feature that gives you more proficiencies from your class' skill list.
I think your unarmored defense idea of a base AC is really good and really helps solve the whole MAD issue.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU









I think Martial Arts Dice needs an increase. Something like 1D6/1D8/2D6/3D6.
Agreed that Step of the Wind shouldn't cost Ki. Having it use a bonus action is more than sufficient.
I think you should be able to use Stunning Strike a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. Additional uses can then cost Ki.
For Way of Shadow, you should be able to cast each of the Shadow Arts spells once per long rest then any additional uses cost Ki.
Way of Four Elements needs a different resource for their elemental spells altogether. Whether that's spell slots or a separate pool of points (chi? Element points?) I'm not picky. But it seems messed up that Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters get spell slots but Four Elements Monks have to choose between using class features or sub-class features.
Personally I think the Monk doesn't really need much at lower levels; the class actually starts out quite strong, but its core progression slows over time. That said, keep in mind that increased Ki points means a Monk can be using Ki every round without much concern for running out.
I don't know about Step of the Wind not costing Ki as the Monk is already fast; your average double-dashing Rogue can do 90 feet in a turn, but your average Monk can single-dash up to 80 feet from 2nd level, and only gets faster from there; when we double dash we make the Rogue look like an out of shape gelatinous cube.
Personally my main fixes would be:
I know it looks like a lot, but really the Monk is IMO fine in lower tiers of play, it's the higher tiers that most players don't make it to where they have a lot of features that feel like wasted levels since they're just too situational. For example, many campaigns will never have you worry about ageing, and it's usually not that hard to get food and water so Timeless Body is a bit weird as the only feature for an entire level.
In general what WotC need to be looking at for each class is ensuring that every level improves the class' combat potential. Once they've done that they can then scatter in out-of-combat abilities to ensure everyone has some things they can be good at when not fighting.
Blue indicates additions to my original post.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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In my initial post I forgot that, I too, would like to see the damage die increased starting at d6 and going to d12 but I also like some others ideas in die combinations.
@Haravikk,
I really wasn’t too concerned about the dash option making them too fast, they were already the fastest class out there. I don’t think they need a limit and they are already paying the price of losing out on their BA features that a rogue is not.
I like your other ideas. A polearm option for monk would be nice. But wonder if it should be only Kensei or, for Kensei, take away the restrictions (lack heavy or special property)
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
One change that I would like is to have the number of unarmed attaks in Flurry of Blows to scale up as you level... ie: match Proficiency Bonus, or 3 attacks at level 10 and 3 attacks at level 17, etc
--- if additional unarmed strikes does not get implemented to unarmed strikes, than increasing the martial art die is acceptable
Allow for monks to use Grapple or Shove attacks with their Dex, and include it as a martial art trait
Agreed that step of the wind should be Ki free
I made a document of a bunch of Monk fixes I slote from various sources, this covers most of them but here's some of the other ones I've found.
Never actually played any of these, and probably will be sticking to RAW anyways, but it's fun to experiment with balance changes and stuff like that. So keep in mind none of these have been playtested by me and are purely theoretical as of now.
Some of the fixes I found interesting but I don't personally like
Sources: mostly lurking on reddit & these forums. Also the treatmonk monk video was alright. I do keep track of all the reddit threads and comments these ideas are from and can post them if anyone wants but I don't think it's really necessary.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
The difficulties with the current edition of monk abilities is MAD and durability. Here are my ideas that would hopefully maintain balance.
I considered a d10 hit die, but find it to not have enough flavor. The AC fixes and bonus action disengage should suffice for durability.
And of course I forgot that letting dexterity be used with heavy weapons can be abused. I just can’t remember precisely how.
I feel like the Monk needs an identity outside of combat. I'd like to see some feature that would let them calm down potential opponents, or observe some facet of the environment that others can't, or share wisdom to help with knowledge checks or something. They're supposed to be more than just Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, but they're really not.
In combat, I think there needs to be some work done to move Monk away from "hit stuff" and towards "get fancy." I'm not much of a class designer but I would think the simplest way would be to replace all the multiattack stuff with specialized super moves.
I also would like to see a STR build as a viable option. you could use a form of fighting based off of animals, like bear, gorilla, tiger, and fight with STR. Or the bruiser for a crime syndicate who is adventuring on a mission for their boss. But maybe that could be a subclass, (edit: the STR build, not the bruiser) kind of like Astral Self that can focus more on WIS. Having to focus on DEX and WIS makes STR builds less of an option
Personally I hope they do something with the MAD classes. Looking at the multiclassing prerequisites there are three “AND” classes, monk, paladin, and Ranger with DEX “and” WIS or STR “and” CHA requirements. Make the classes with one primary stat and base the class features off of that. Barbarians only need STR although their unarmored defense is DEX and CON. But they have access to light and medium armor so they can focus on STR which their rage uses.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If they could do something to improve two weapon fighting and apply that to martial arts attacks, it would go a long way towards making monks feel more unique and meaningful in combat.
I don't understand your meaning at all. Monks can already do the equivalent of two weapon fighting when unarmed attacks -- that is, they can make one as a bonus action after attacking. (Or two if they spend ki.) What are you imagining that's different?
Yes, martial arts is just two weapon fighting, but worse in a few ways. Less use of enchanted weapons, and slowly improving martial arts dice.
They can spend resources for flurry of blows, yes, but it takes resources and is still tied to that slowly improving, unenchanted martial arts di and unarmed attack.
Two weapon fighting was purposefully designed to be nerfed in 5e, and it was made a built in feature of monks. So a more exciting version of two weapon fighting (and martial arts) would be more exciting for monk's too.
Maybe two weapon fighting could scale with extra attack, with more offhand attacks. Especially for monks, since they don't pose the same danger of abusing magic weapons.
Or maybe it could be tied to dexterity, with each +2 equaling an additional offhand attack. And maybe the monk capstone can be changed to an additional +2 Dex and +2 Wis, like the Barb's +2 Strength and +2 Con.
Of course charm effects don't make you aware, that's literally their point; they forcibly change your behaviour, you are no longer in control of everything you do. The way you detect charm is when you're given requests that seem unreasonable within the context; for example, if an effect only charms you then it doesn't make you regard someone as a friend, it just prevents you from attacking them and makes you more easily suggestible. So if they ask you to do something that is very out of character for you to do for a stranger/unfriendly acquaintance, and the persuasion fails, then you should absolutely become aware that something is wrong. Likewise a charmed creature can always push for insight checks when something is clearly amiss, and should do exactly that, especially for long-running charm effects.
The ability is far from useless, as the moment you become aware something is wrong, you can use it to immediately end the effect as an action; the only other characters that can do this are casters with Dispel Magic (and only if the charm comes from a spell) or Berserker Barbarians (for whom it's an entire level's feature, though their protection extends to full immunity while raging). While yes, if you can't take an action then none of these can end the effect, that's definitely intended to be the case, though actually very few charm effects fully prevent actions. Also worth remembering that you're not the only one who can or should break the effect; your allies are allowed to do-so, or to take actions to try to make you aware of it if you are somehow the only one able to do something about it (or they can go after the caster etc.). No character needs to be able to end charm on themselves, and certainly not automatically, otherwise you eliminate a massive chunk of abilities and spells from the game entirely.
I'm certain that this is how it's intended to work as you need to be aware of something before you can reasonably take an action to get rid of it, and you are not aware of spells unless they have a clear perceptible effect (which charm is not, as only others can perceive a change in your behaviour). Also remember that Stillness of Mind is a secondary ability granted at the same level as Evasion, Rogues also get Evasion and alongside that they only get a small scaling up of their Sneak Attack; Monks meanwhile get Evasion, another Ki point and also Stillness of Mind, so I find it impossible to believe that it's intended to be as powerful as people want it to be. But to be clear, what I'm proposing is not a change in behaviour, I believe this is how it is intended to work already, I'm proposing that it be clarified so that the ambiguity around it can be put to rest once and for all because the fact that any ambiguity/misinterpretation exists at all is a flaw in the feature.
Anyway, I'd rather not get into another circular discussion about it; I'm proposing that it be clarified, because it should be.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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This seems to really over complicate the matter.
The “charmed” condition doesn’t explicitly rely on knowledge or lack of knowledge about being charmed. Some spells suggest you know and can do little about it like mind control, some suggest you might not but still can do little about it.
the bigger issue is with what charm spells would even allow someone to purposefully break them. You can’t both be charmed and not charmed
Personally I think that two-weapon fighting in 5e is fine as it is; the only characters for whom it's a problem really are Fighters, because they get more attacks at higher levels so the extra one for two-weapon fighting becomes less significant to them. Any "fix" for two-weapon fighting therefore should be fighter specific., and even then I'm not sure I'd personally ask for anything, as an extra attack is still an extra attack, it may only be 25% extra on four attacks, but that's still five attacks in a turn, which means more chances to hit/less impact if you miss.
There are also so many ways to get extra damage on attacks in 5e, this is partly why Flurry of Blows can be so good; if you can pick up Divine Favor, Hex or Hunter's Mark for yourself via a feat or multiclassing, or an ally can use Crusader's Mantle or similar, then with four attacks in a round you can really maximise the bonus damage you're getting from 5th level onwards. This is why extra attacks should be limited in 5e. That's why I was thinking only a reaction attack costing Ki, as it's still limited that way.
Regarding two-weapon fighting specifically for Monks, I do kind of agree that it'd be nice to have a way to use two weapons a bit more viably on the Monk; personally I'd maybe just tweak Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows so that one of the attacks can be made using your off-hand weapon if you have one, basically gives you two-weapon fighting for free. At higher levels it doesn't really matter what you use anyway, because the monk damage dice will override all damage differences eventually, so the main difference really is that if you found two light magic weapons then you could use them.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Stillness of Mind does though; you have to choose an effect to end, but if your character is not aware of one, why they would make a conscious choice to end something that they are not aware of?
The rules for spell targets states that unless a spell has a perceptible effect, you do not know one was cast unless the spell specifically says otherwise, this is why the likes of Charm Person explicitly say that the target becomes aware that they were charmed. This is a big part of what makes charm effects dangerous, but again, it's not only the target that needs to be aware of it; your party members can spot altered behaviour and take action accordingly, either to make you aware, or to break the effect themselves. Like most rules they are not designed for a 1v1 white room.
The fact that the charmed condition persists even once you are aware of it (in most cases) is why Stillness of Mind is not rendered useless by following these rules, because most other characters that become aware they are charmed cannot do anything about it; but a Monk can.
Again though, this is why I want it clarified in the Stillness of Mind feature itself, i.e- "one effect you are aware of", ideally with corresponding changes in the charmed and/or spellcasting rules to clarify how exactly these are intended to be played, as currently it requires players to not only be aware of all of these things, but to think them through to a degree that most won't because for most it comes up during a session and you just make snap judgements; it needs some clear lines that state (and restate as necessary) unambiguously how it is supposed to work. Basically the way it is now Stillness of Mind requires you to know a lot of other rules in order to fully understand what it (probably) is telling you, but that's no good for the 99% of players and DMs who only know the rules "well enough", because we're not all D&D scholars with eidetic memories, so sometimes little reminders make sense in these types of rules, and help clarify things.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
That is only one factor though. To use Stillness of Mind, you need to not only know you are charmed, but be able to act in a way contrary to the charm's effect.
If you suddenly feel that the hag across from you is your best friend because you failed the save for Charm Person, and know they are causing you to have that feeling, that still doesn't explain why you would act contrary to the charmed condition to break the charm. So far as you are concerned, your best comrade may as well have cast bless on you, because your mind is actively being altered.
And that is the least mind controllish of charm spells.