I am muticlassing as a Monk and a Druid. Would say the claw attack of a bear be considered an unarmed strike for the purpose of the Monk's Martial Arts?
Speaking strictly by the book, no - the bear's claw is a natural weapon, not an unarmed strike.
Speaking as a DM that prefers to be less strict, I'd allow it until such a time as it proved to be disruptive to the game - because Volo's Guide to Monsters includes a few player character race options that have natural weapons, and those contain specific allowance to use them to make unarmed strikes, and it's easier to just apply that to all PCs that happen to have a natural weapon somehow.
I create a lot of characters for the "just in case." I just wrote up a Tabaxi Monk! I love the fact they get their scratch as unarmed! Our DM is pretty lenient when it comes to rules like that so just talk to yours about it!
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Current Character~ Anastael Lasselom, Druid of the Moon Lvl 3
I'm running a game right now where my 2nd level Monk player has told me he'll be multi-classing into a Moon Druid to get advanced wild shape. If you're concerned about balance in the game, then think twice about allowing multi-classing, since it can make really powerful combos. If you're like me, and aren't worried that the player will overshadow the game and ruin the fun, absolutely let them do it. I've made an agreement where he gets ALL his monk powers while in animal form, provided the form is tied to a traditional kung-fu-esque sounding style of martial arts, e.g.. Tiger, Bear, Monkey, Viper. I'm super excited for him using Tiger Style as an actual tiger.
I don't consider them unarmed strikes but I do consider them to be monk weapons which allows all the same things. I do drop the added damage after the dice (2d8+4 becomes 2d8) and then to bring damage in line with actual weapons I split that damage (2d8 becomes 1d8) per attack. I also allow their hands to become "magic weapons" in that they may gain a +1, +2, or +3, either by finding a non-description magic sword/dagger and just call it an enhanced enamel coating for their claws or teeth or by finding some sort of enchanter or special animal handler that could do the job.
I'm running a game right now where my 2nd level Monk player has told me he'll be multi-classing into a Moon Druid to get advanced wild shape. If you're concerned about balance in the game, then think twice about allowing multi-classing, since it can make really powerful combos. If you're like me, and aren't worried that the player will overshadow the game and ruin the fun, absolutely let them do it. I've made an agreement where he gets ALL his monk powers while in animal form, provided the form is tied to a traditional kung-fu-esque sounding style of martial arts, e.g.. Tiger, Bear, Monkey, Viper. I'm super excited for him using Tiger Style as an actual tiger.
I'm in the camp where beast form attacks do not work. A bears claw attack is not an unarmed monks strike it is a god-damned bears claw! I think the balance being talked about is put in place by limiting what can be combined, because as you said combinations could be very powerful without restraints.
From a RP/Flavor aspect it doesn't make sense to me to allow abilities in wildshape form. Monks train for years in their own bodies to be able to do what they do. Now they are not in their bodies but an animal's why should they just automatically be able to to in a new and different form what they could do in their humanoid form?
Your last statement about utilizing monk powers tied to animals style forms is absolute brilliance. I love how this sounds and the images that it brings to mind. I'd argue the player needs to train in said form to be able to do this. It allows the player to have enjoy a powerful combination, has a story element as it's basis and gives the player something to work towards and feel like they earned that powerful combination which will I think be much more gratifying.
I understand what Mike Mearls is saying. I get why he says it. I agree it's not the way the rules were designed. I think that it's probably not going to create a balanced gaming environment. Absolutely still going to let my player have fun with a house rule. This game's greatest strength is that you can play it how you want. They've given me wildshape and monk powers. I'm letting them coexist in a niche between the realms of "Oh my goodness, this is awesome!" and "Wouldn't that just be the coolest thing ever?".
You can Role-Play that your "taking on the beast" in your humanoid form (forsaking weapons/armor)
Both are high Wisdom dependent classes
Druid's spells DCs are Wisdom Dependent
Monk's Ki DCs are Wisdom Dependent
Moon Druid only really needs Wisdom, follow by Con (concentration checks and hitpoints on the main form), Dex (who doesn't need armor class and initiative?!) Very ability score efficient.
So a Moon Druid/Monk can still have a good AC with just Wisdom and Dex. (with a +3 or +2 to each that's a 15-16 AC!)
Magical Quarterstaffs are "Monk Weapons" and Druid Spell Focuses
Spear held in 2 hands is 1d8.
Monk Abilities (up to level 4) work in Wildshape: Unarmored Defense, Ki, Unarmored Movement, Deflect Missiles, Slow Fall.
Monk Ki points regenerate on a Short Rest
Druid Wildshapes regenerate on a Short Rest
Cons:
Druid is a VERY level dependent class, so every level in Monk pushes back Druid abilities significantly
Monk is a VERY level dependent class, so every level in Druid pushes back Monk abilities significantly
Can't wield a shield, so will have lower AC
Monk Abilities (up to level 4) "don't work" in Wildshape: Martial Arts***
Druid Spells regenerate on a Long Rest
Wildshape: Martial Arts***
Technically Martial Arts is weird and *can* be done in Wildshape, the problem is that these attack are probably far and away inferior to your animal attacks!
Example Level: 2 Moon Druid/2 Monk Wildshapes into a Brown Bear. (Remember if your Wis is 16, the Brown Bear will have AC: 13 instead of 11!)
A) Multiattack: Bite +5 to hit, Claw 1d8+4; +5 to hit, Claw 2d6+4, +5 to hit, 2d6+4
B) Martial Arts: Unarmed Strike: Action:: +6 to hit, 1d4+4, Bonus Action: +6 to hit, 1d4+4. (Brown Bear is Str +4 and Proficiency Bonus +2 so Unarmed Attacks are +6)
C) Attack: +5 to hit, Claw 2d6+4. Spend 1 Ki point for Flurry of Blows: Bonus Action: +6 to hit, 1d4+4; +6 to hit, 1d4+4
I was surprised that Flurry of Blows, could work until I was reading the Core Book for this post."Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action". It actually says nothing about being "triggered" by Martial Arts, just that you took the Attack action. Note, the Attack Action is NOT Multiattack, so this works better on anything that doesn't have Multiattack!
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I am muticlassing as a Monk and a Druid. Would say the claw attack of a bear be considered an unarmed strike for the purpose of the Monk's Martial Arts?
Speaking strictly by the book, no - the bear's claw is a natural weapon, not an unarmed strike.
Speaking as a DM that prefers to be less strict, I'd allow it until such a time as it proved to be disruptive to the game - because Volo's Guide to Monsters includes a few player character race options that have natural weapons, and those contain specific allowance to use them to make unarmed strikes, and it's easier to just apply that to all PCs that happen to have a natural weapon somehow.
I create a lot of characters for the "just in case." I just wrote up a Tabaxi Monk! I love the fact they get their scratch as unarmed! Our DM is pretty lenient when it comes to rules like that so just talk to yours about it!
Current Character~ Anastael Lasselom, Druid of the Moon Lvl 3
Dimitris of Waterdeep, Champion Fighter Lvl 3
I'm running a game right now where my 2nd level Monk player has told me he'll be multi-classing into a Moon Druid to get advanced wild shape. If you're concerned about balance in the game, then think twice about allowing multi-classing, since it can make really powerful combos. If you're like me, and aren't worried that the player will overshadow the game and ruin the fun, absolutely let them do it. I've made an agreement where he gets ALL his monk powers while in animal form, provided the form is tied to a traditional kung-fu-esque sounding style of martial arts, e.g.. Tiger, Bear, Monkey, Viper. I'm super excited for him using Tiger Style as an actual tiger.
I don't consider them unarmed strikes but I do consider them to be monk weapons which allows all the same things. I do drop the added damage after the dice (2d8+4 becomes 2d8) and then to bring damage in line with actual weapons I split that damage (2d8 becomes 1d8) per attack. I also allow their hands to become "magic weapons" in that they may gain a +1, +2, or +3, either by finding a non-description magic sword/dagger and just call it an enhanced enamel coating for their claws or teeth or by finding some sort of enchanter or special animal handler that could do the job.
OK guys we got it wrong:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/monk-druid/
A monk/druid in wild shape does not benefit from the monk unarmed strike.
I understand what Mike Mearls is saying. I get why he says it. I agree it's not the way the rules were designed. I think that it's probably not going to create a balanced gaming environment. Absolutely still going to let my player have fun with a house rule. This game's greatest strength is that you can play it how you want. They've given me wildshape and monk powers. I'm letting them coexist in a niche between the realms of "Oh my goodness, this is awesome!" and "Wouldn't that just be the coolest thing ever?".
So, if you Wild Shape into something that can hit stuff with its tail, is the tail considered a weapon?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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A natural weapon yes.
Good grief!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Benefits of Druid/Monk Multiclass:
Pros:
Cons:
Wildshape: Martial Arts***
Technically Martial Arts is weird and *can* be done in Wildshape, the problem is that these attack are probably far and away inferior to your animal attacks!
Example Level: 2 Moon Druid/2 Monk Wildshapes into a Brown Bear. (Remember if your Wis is 16, the Brown Bear will have AC: 13 instead of 11!)
A) Multiattack: Bite +5 to hit, Claw 1d8+4; +5 to hit, Claw 2d6+4, +5 to hit, 2d6+4
B) Martial Arts: Unarmed Strike: Action:: +6 to hit, 1d4+4, Bonus Action: +6 to hit, 1d4+4. (Brown Bear is Str +4 and Proficiency Bonus +2 so Unarmed Attacks are +6)
C) Attack: +5 to hit, Claw 2d6+4. Spend 1 Ki point for Flurry of Blows: Bonus Action: +6 to hit, 1d4+4; +6 to hit, 1d4+4
I was surprised that Flurry of Blows, could work until I was reading the Core Book for this post."Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action". It actually says nothing about being "triggered" by Martial Arts, just that you took the Attack action. Note, the Attack Action is NOT Multiattack, so this works better on anything that doesn't have Multiattack!