I feel like with the addition of Dedicated Weapon from Tasha's allowing Monks to delve into more weapon options, and the fact that Monks are a Martial class that benefits from Martial features like Extra Attack, and I think therefore should benefit from other standard Martial benefits, such as a 1d10 Hit Dice, Simple + Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Light + Medium Armor proficiency, like the Barbarians, who also have Unarmored Defense as a feature, at that point, Monks just seem like a Copy and Paste of Fighter. Since Fighters also gain Unarmed Fighting style, with a Monk multiclass, it puts the Martial Arts Die to shame at low to mid levels of play.
I also think Monks can benefit a lot from this change - as Fighters get more Extra Attack than every other Martial, Monks as a Fighter subclass would also get more Extra Attack than it does now. Same logic applies to ASIs/Feats for higher Dexterity and Wisdom. I also think Monks gain a lot of fluff for features at higher levels, so becoming a Fighter subclass can simply leave Monk with the substance it provides at earlier levels, such as Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense/Speed, Stunning Strike, Step of the Wind (since Rogues get this feature's effects for free, Monks can have this as a free subclass feature), Flurry of Blows (also as a separate free feature). I'll decide later how these features will be allocated for which level, but I think these base features capture the purest substance for a Monk, and with the benefits of the Fighter class, makes it even better than the main Monk class. Let me know your thoughts.
Fighter subclass with ability boosts similar a warlock's invocations. Use "way" instead of "pact" to allow access to abilities that are currently in monk subclasses. Unarmored with movement boost or light armor without would be standard.
Although I agree it would be better if the monk had a d10 hit die I really don't think they should be a fighter subclass. If they want to make a brawler subclass for fighter, fine. But I think with a few tweaks in the upcoming 2024 "edition", I hope, the monk would be just fine staying a standalone class. There have been many suggestions on various threads in the class forum on what tweaks many of us would like to see going forward. Hopefully, WotC will give monks some love in the future. The changes to Unarmed Strikes in the Character Origins UA is a good start.
I also think it would be a detriment to the class to focus purely on the combat aspects of the monk as the "pure substance". Fighters, as a core class, also suffer from this, lacking an identity outside of combat and just being the guy who hits stuff. Sure, some of the higher level abilities feel like fluff:
Slow fall is good, Ki empowered strikes is great (and something a fighter with Unarmed fighting style doesn't have), Evasion is great, Purity of Body is good (although I've yet to run into disease effects in our campaign), Tongue of the Sun and Moon is probably the fluff you are talking about, Diamond Soul is great (though some of us have ideas on a better implementation on it), Timeless Body another fluff ability I'm sure you are responding to, Empty Body is good (note it isn't casting the Invisibility spell and mentions nothing of concentration or loosing invisibility by attacking so it's on the full minute), and Perfect Self is kind of lame so <shrug>
Out of those I feel only two are fluff.
As far as armor goes, would you allow monks to use heavy armor as well or restrict it to Medium and Light? They already have that proficiency in Heavy if they are a subclass of fighter. And with unarmed attacks and monk weapons they can already out attack a fighter most of the time, with FoB. At level 5 monks can do 4 attacks (with FoB) where the fighter can only do 3 (extra attack and a BA attack if dual wielding or Polearm Master). It's not until level 11 when fighters get their 3rd attack that they can out attack a monk (if the monk doesn't FoB and the Fighter has that BA attack)
The monk is not perfect by any means and can use some tweaks to make them better. If the unarmed strikes start at 1d6 and scale from there (MMM races with claw attacks got boosted to 1d6 already so it may happen in 2024) they would not be significantly behind a fighter with Unarmed fighting style (1 point of damage on average if not using a d8 monk weapon like quarterstaff or spear) until level 5 where it would scale to d8 anyway. I do think they should have access to Martial weapons, with restrictions on Heavy and special properties and give Kensei subclass access to all but the special property weapons. So Kensei could use glaive and halberd.
But if you would like to post a proposal on how you would implement the monk as a fighter subclass, I would be interested in seeing it.
If I were to make a monk subclass of the fighter, I would make it like this.
External Strength
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn the secret techniques of martial arts and the concept of external strength.
Bonus strike. When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or with a weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Unarmed strike. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and, you can roll a d8 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike. At 10th level, your unarmed strike turn into d10s. At 18th level, they turn into d12s.
Unarmed Defense. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier.
Internal Strength
At 3rd level, you learn ki martial arts that are fueled by your Ki points. This corresponding to the secret arts of martial arts that follow the concept of inner strength.
Ki martial arts. You learn three ki martial arts of your choice. Many martial arts enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one martial arts per attack. You learn two additional martial arts of your choice at 7th, 10th, and 15th level. Each time you learn new martial arts, you can also replace one martial arts you know with a different one.
Ki points. You have a number of ki points equal to your level in this class. 2 Ki points are expended when you use a ki martial arts. You regain all of your expended Ki when you finish a short or long rest.
Saving Throws. Some of your ki martial arts require your target to make a saving throw to resist the effects of your ki martial arts. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows: Ki Martial Arts save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice)
Special Footwork
tarting at 7th level, you learn advanced movement techniques that will give you incredible acrobatic skills.
Slow Fall. You can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your fighter level. As part of the same reaction, you can expend 1 ki point to allow 4 creatures within a range equal to your movement speed to reduce the damage taken from falling by 5 times your monk level.
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids without falling during the move. This effect lasts until the end of your turn.
Patient Defense. You can spend 1 ki point to take the Dodge action as a bonus action on your turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make a number of opportunity attacks equal to your proficiency modifier without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach.
Diamond Soul
Beginning at 10th level, your mastery of ki grants you proficiency in all saving throws, and makes you immune to disease and poison.
Enlightenment
Starting at 15th level, every time you roll for initiative, you have at last 8 ki points available.
Ki Martial Arts:
Ki Emanation. When you make a Charisma (Intimidation), a Charisma (Performance), or a Charisma (Persuasion) check, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check.
Ninja. When you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check or an initiative roll, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check, provided you aren't incapacitated.
Pushing Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to drive the target back. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you push the target up to 15 feet away from you.
Tactical Assessment. When you make an Intelligence (Investigation), an Intelligence (History), or a Wisdom (Insight) check, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check.
Bait and Switch When you're within 5 feet of a creature on your turn, you can switch places with that creature, provided you spend at least 5 feet of movement and the creature is willing and isn't incapacitated. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. Roll one Martial Arts die. Until the start of your next turn, you or the other creature (your choice) gains a bonus to AC equal to the number rolled.
Blinded. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can hit the target eyes with your fingers. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Dexterity. saving throw or be blind until the end of your next turn.
Brutal Attack. When you hit a creature with a critical melee attack, you can enhance your attack to make it even more devastating. Roll one Martial Arts die damage dice three times, instead of twice, and add it to the damage roll.
Distracting Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can distract the creature, giving your allies an opening. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll. The next attack roll against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.
Evasive Footwork. When you move, roll one martial arts die and add the number rolled to your AC until you stop moving.
Life Force. As a bonus action, you can roll one Martial Arts die and you or one willing creature that you touch regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled plus your proficiency bonus.
Lunging Strike. When you make a melee attack on your turn, you can increase your reach for that attack by 5 feet. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Precision Strike. When you make a melee attack roll against a creature, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the roll. You can use this technique before or after making the attack roll, but before any effects of the attack are applied.
Pressure Point. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can hit the nerves of your target. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or not be able to move, swimming or fly until the end of your next turn. An airborne creature affected by this attack safely descends at 60 feet per round until it reaches the ground.
Unbalancing Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to knock the target down. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, it must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, you knock the target prone.
Absorb Force. When another creature damages you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and roll one Martial Arts die to reduce the damage by the number you roll on your Martial Arts die + your Dexterity modifier.
Disarming Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
Focus Breaker. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can attempt to shatter their concentration. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and if the creature makes a Constitution save to maintain concentration on a spell, subtract the number rolled on the Martial Arts die from the creature's roll.
Focused Striker. As a bonus action on your turn, you can take a focused combat stance. Until the the start of your next turn or until you are incapacitated, you ignore the disadvantage on all weapon attack rolls.
Goading Attack. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to goad the target into attacking you. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls against targets other than you until the end of your next turn.
Murderer Intent. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to frighten the target. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
Shoulder to Shoulder. On your turn you can allow one of your companions to move with you if they use their reaction. Your companion must start and end this movement within 5 feet of you. During this movement, all opportunity attacks that would target them, target yourself instead.
Dazing Attack. When you hit another creature with a melee attack, you can blow to the enemy temple. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must make an Intelligence saving throw. If it fails, it can’t take a reaction until the end of its next turn. Moreover, on its next turn, it must choose whether it gets a move, an action, or a bonus action; it gets only one of the three.
Devious Strike. Whenever a creature within your reach attacks an ally, you can use your reaction to make one opportunity attack. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Puppet. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to control its mind with your ki. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack against a creature other than itself that you mentally choose. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll. The controlled creature can move half its movement in this reaction.
Quick Toss. As a bonus action, you can make a ranged attack with a weapon that has the thrown property. You can draw the weapon as part of making this attack. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Sweeping-Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to damage another creature with the same attack. Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to one Martial Arts die roll. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.
Brace. When a creature you can see moves within your melee range, you can make an attack against them using your reaction. If the attack hits, you can can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage rolled.
Counter-Strike. When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to make an unarmed attack against that creature. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Mental Shock. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to damage its mind with your ki. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw or subtract 1d8 from the next saving throw it makes before the end of your next turn.
Voiceless. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can blow the enemy throat. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or not being able to speak until the end of your next turn.
I feel like with the addition of Dedicated Weapon from Tasha's allowing Monks to delve into more weapon options, and the fact that Monks are a Martial class that benefits from Martial features like Extra Attack, and I think therefore should benefit from other standard Martial benefits, such as a 1d10 Hit Dice, Simple + Martial Weapon Proficiency, and Light + Medium Armor proficiency, like the Barbarians, who also have Unarmored Defense as a feature, at that point, Monks just seem like a Copy and Paste of Fighter. Since Fighters also gain Unarmed Fighting style, with a Monk multiclass, it puts the Martial Arts Die to shame at low to mid levels of play.
I also think Monks can benefit a lot from this change - as Fighters get more Extra Attack than every other Martial, Monks as a Fighter subclass would also get more Extra Attack than it does now. Same logic applies to ASIs/Feats for higher Dexterity and Wisdom. I also think Monks gain a lot of fluff for features at higher levels, so becoming a Fighter subclass can simply leave Monk with the substance it provides at earlier levels, such as Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense/Speed, Stunning Strike, Step of the Wind (since Rogues get this feature's effects for free, Monks can have this as a free subclass feature), Flurry of Blows (also as a separate free feature). I'll decide later how these features will be allocated for which level, but I think these base features capture the purest substance for a Monk, and with the benefits of the Fighter class, makes it even better than the main Monk class. Let me know your thoughts.
Fighter subclass with ability boosts similar a warlock's invocations. Use "way" instead of "pact" to allow access to abilities that are currently in monk subclasses. Unarmored with movement boost or light armor without would be standard.
Although I agree it would be better if the monk had a d10 hit die I really don't think they should be a fighter subclass. If they want to make a brawler subclass for fighter, fine. But I think with a few tweaks in the upcoming 2024 "edition", I hope, the monk would be just fine staying a standalone class. There have been many suggestions on various threads in the class forum on what tweaks many of us would like to see going forward. Hopefully, WotC will give monks some love in the future. The changes to Unarmed Strikes in the Character Origins UA is a good start.
I also think it would be a detriment to the class to focus purely on the combat aspects of the monk as the "pure substance". Fighters, as a core class, also suffer from this, lacking an identity outside of combat and just being the guy who hits stuff. Sure, some of the higher level abilities feel like fluff:
Slow fall is good, Ki empowered strikes is great (and something a fighter with Unarmed fighting style doesn't have), Evasion is great, Purity of Body is good (although I've yet to run into disease effects in our campaign), Tongue of the Sun and Moon is probably the fluff you are talking about, Diamond Soul is great (though some of us have ideas on a better implementation on it), Timeless Body another fluff ability I'm sure you are responding to, Empty Body is good (note it isn't casting the Invisibility spell and mentions nothing of concentration or loosing invisibility by attacking so it's on the full minute), and Perfect Self is kind of lame so <shrug>
Out of those I feel only two are fluff.
As far as armor goes, would you allow monks to use heavy armor as well or restrict it to Medium and Light? They already have that proficiency in Heavy if they are a subclass of fighter. And with unarmed attacks and monk weapons they can already out attack a fighter most of the time, with FoB. At level 5 monks can do 4 attacks (with FoB) where the fighter can only do 3 (extra attack and a BA attack if dual wielding or Polearm Master). It's not until level 11 when fighters get their 3rd attack that they can out attack a monk (if the monk doesn't FoB and the Fighter has that BA attack)
The monk is not perfect by any means and can use some tweaks to make them better. If the unarmed strikes start at 1d6 and scale from there (MMM races with claw attacks got boosted to 1d6 already so it may happen in 2024) they would not be significantly behind a fighter with Unarmed fighting style (1 point of damage on average if not using a d8 monk weapon like quarterstaff or spear) until level 5 where it would scale to d8 anyway. I do think they should have access to Martial weapons, with restrictions on Heavy and special properties and give Kensei subclass access to all but the special property weapons. So Kensei could use glaive and halberd.
But if you would like to post a proposal on how you would implement the monk as a fighter subclass, I would be interested in seeing it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
If I were to make a monk subclass of the fighter, I would make it like this.
External Strength
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn the secret techniques of martial arts and the concept of external strength.
Internal Strength
At 3rd level, you learn ki martial arts that are fueled by your Ki points. This corresponding to the secret arts of martial arts that follow the concept of inner strength.
Special Footwork
tarting at 7th level, you learn advanced movement techniques that will give you incredible acrobatic skills.
Diamond Soul
Beginning at 10th level, your mastery of ki grants you proficiency in all saving throws, and makes you immune to disease and poison.
Enlightenment
Starting at 15th level, every time you roll for initiative, you have at last 8 ki points available.
Ki Martial Arts:
Ki Emanation. When you make a Charisma (Intimidation), a Charisma (Performance), or a Charisma (Persuasion) check, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check.
Ninja. When you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check or an initiative roll, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check, provided you aren't incapacitated.
Pushing Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to drive the target back. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you push the target up to 15 feet away from you.
Tactical Assessment. When you make an Intelligence (Investigation), an Intelligence (History), or a Wisdom (Insight) check, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the ability check.
Bait and Switch When you're within 5 feet of a creature on your turn, you can switch places with that creature, provided you spend at least 5 feet of movement and the creature is willing and isn't incapacitated. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. Roll one Martial Arts die. Until the start of your next turn, you or the other creature (your choice) gains a bonus to AC equal to the number rolled.
Blinded. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can hit the target eyes with your fingers. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Dexterity. saving throw or be blind until the end of your next turn.
Brutal Attack. When you hit a creature with a critical melee attack, you can enhance your attack to make it even more devastating. Roll one Martial Arts die damage dice three times, instead of twice, and add it to the damage roll.
Distracting Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can distract the creature, giving your allies an opening. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll. The next attack roll against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.
Evasive Footwork. When you move, roll one martial arts die and add the number rolled to your AC until you stop moving.
Life Force. As a bonus action, you can roll one Martial Arts die and you or one willing creature that you touch regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled plus your proficiency bonus.
Lunging Strike. When you make a melee attack on your turn, you can increase your reach for that attack by 5 feet. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Precision Strike. When you make a melee attack roll against a creature, you can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the roll. You can use this technique before or after making the attack roll, but before any effects of the attack are applied.
Pressure Point. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can hit the nerves of your target. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or not be able to move, swimming or fly until the end of your next turn. An airborne creature affected by this attack safely descends at 60 feet per round until it reaches the ground.
Unbalancing Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to knock the target down. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, it must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, you knock the target prone.
Absorb Force. When another creature damages you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and roll one Martial Arts die to reduce the damage by the number you roll on your Martial Arts die + your Dexterity modifier.
Disarming Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
Focus Breaker. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can attempt to shatter their concentration. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and if the creature makes a Constitution save to maintain concentration on a spell, subtract the number rolled on the Martial Arts die from the creature's roll.
Focused Striker. As a bonus action on your turn, you can take a focused combat stance. Until the the start of your next turn or until you are incapacitated, you ignore the disadvantage on all weapon attack rolls.
Goading Attack. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to goad the target into attacking you. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls against targets other than you until the end of your next turn.
Murderer Intent. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to frighten the target. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is frightened of you until the end of your next turn.
Shoulder to Shoulder. On your turn you can allow one of your companions to move with you if they use their reaction. Your companion must start and end this movement within 5 feet of you. During this movement, all opportunity attacks that would target them, target yourself instead.
Dazing Attack. When you hit another creature with a melee attack, you can blow to the enemy temple. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must make an Intelligence saving throw. If it fails, it can’t take a reaction until the end of its next turn. Moreover, on its next turn, it must choose whether it gets a move, an action, or a bonus action; it gets only one of the three.
Devious Strike. Whenever a creature within your reach attacks an ally, you can use your reaction to make one opportunity attack. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Puppet. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to control its mind with your ki. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Charisma saving throw or immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack against a creature other than itself that you mentally choose. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll. The controlled creature can move half its movement in this reaction.
Quick Toss. As a bonus action, you can make a ranged attack with a weapon that has the thrown property. You can draw the weapon as part of making this attack. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Sweeping-Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to damage another creature with the same attack. Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to one Martial Arts die roll. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.
Brace. When a creature you can see moves within your melee range, you can make an attack against them using your reaction. If the attack hits, you can can roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage rolled.
Counter-Strike. When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to make an unarmed attack against that creature. If you hit, roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll.
Mental Shock. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can attempt to damage its mind with your ki. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw or subtract 1d8 from the next saving throw it makes before the end of your next turn.
Voiceless. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can blow the enemy throat. Roll one Martial Arts die and add it to the damage roll, and it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or not being able to speak until the end of your next turn.
that looks pretty good