A caster has fire resistance and elemental adept (fire) for their fire spells to bypass resistance.
Monk uses deflect energy on a firebolt spell and throws the fire energy back at the caster.
Since the cast originated from a caster that had elemental adept, does the fire damage of the monk bypass the caster's resistance to fire? I would think not, since the damage is redirected through the monk and has a new damage roll, but my group had a bit of a debate on the topic.
It's a bit convoluted, but actually a good question. From my point of view, even if it is a deflect attack and therefore has the same properties as the initial attack, this attack was deflected by someone who does not have the “element adept” feat and therefore does not have the ability to make the most of the deflect element. One could say that the spell is no longer a spell but a deflect attack and therefore loses the property of the “element adept” feat.
At least, that's my personal interpretation, and since I haven't found any specific rules on the matter, it can be interpreted in different ways depending on the DM's choice and the rules of the group.
Level 3: Deflect Attacks
When an attack roll hits you and its damage includes Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can take a Reaction to reduce the attack’s total damage against you. The reduction equals 1d10 plus your Dexterity modifier and Monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can expend 1 Focus Point to redirect some of the attack’s force. If you do so, choose a creature you can see within 5 feet of yourself if the attack was a melee attack or a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself that isn’t behind Total Cover if the attack was a ranged attack. That creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die plus your Dexterity modifier. The damage is the same type dealt by the attack.
Level 13: Deflect Energy
You can now use your Deflect Attacks feature against attacks that deal any damage type, not just Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing.
Elemental Adept
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Spellcasting or Pact Magic Feature)
You gain the following benefits. Ability Score Increase. Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20. Energy Mastery. Choose one of the following damage types: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder. Spellsyou castignore Resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2. Repeatable. You can take this feat more than once, but you must choose a different damage type each time for Energy Mastery.
Resistance
If you have Resistance to a damage type, damage of that type is halved against you (round down). Resistance is applied only once to an instance of damage. See also “Playing the Game” (“Damage and Healing”).
This is interesting. I'd say the attack would bypass the caster's resistance because the original attack was the Fire Bolt, redirected back toward the caster by the monk. To put that another way, the monk cannot deflect an attack that is not made, therefore the monk is not (directly) dealing the damage.
Also, to the OP's point that the damage directed through the monk has a new damage roll, it doesn't in the 2024 rules; it's a Dexterity saving throw. Deflect Missiles from 2014 Monk requires an attack roll, but then it can't be used with spells anyhow.
By the straight text of the rules, it doesn't, because it's not technically redirecting the attack -- it's reducing the damage and then making a second attack.
By the text of the fiction, it absolutely should keep all the same properties of the initial attack.
This is interesting. I'd say the attack would bypass the caster's resistance because the original attack was the Fire Bolt, redirected back toward the caster by the monk. To put that another way, the monk cannot deflect an attack that is not made, therefore the monk is not (directly) dealing the damage.
Also, to the OP's point that the damage directed through the monk has a new damage roll, it doesn't in the 2024 rules; it's a Dexterity saving throw. Deflect Missiles from 2014 Monk requires an attack roll, but then it can't be used with spells anyhow.
Minor point; it is a new Damage roll, just not a new Attack Roll under the 2024 rules. A 13th-level Monk with DEX 20 who trivially swats back the 1 Piercing Damage of a blowgun attack with Deflect Attacks and burns the Focus Point to redirect can do up to 25 Piercing (2d10+5) to a target that fails the Dex Save.
Under the 2014 rules, it would be a new Ranged Attack roll with Proficiency, and considered a Monk Weapon for those purposes, so only up to 12 Damage (1d8+5) on that redirected blowgun dart
On the situation in question in the original OP, I'd agree with Aanx; once redirected it's an effect under the control of the Monk, and unless the Monk has some way to make their own effects bypass Fire Resistance, the Fire Resistance of the targeted Caster applies to the Deflected Energy.
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As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
A caster has fire resistance and elemental adept (fire) for their fire spells to bypass resistance.
Monk uses deflect energy on a firebolt spell and throws the fire energy back at the caster.
Since the cast originated from a caster that had elemental adept, does the fire damage of the monk bypass the caster's resistance to fire? I would think not, since the damage is redirected through the monk and has a new damage roll, but my group had a bit of a debate on the topic.
What do you guys think?
The caster takes only the deflected damage if any. The elemental adept is not a rider that can be redirected back.
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Scenario:
A caster has fire resistance and elemental adept (fire) for their fire spells to bypass resistance.
Monk uses deflect energy on a firebolt spell and throws the fire energy back at the caster.
Since the cast originated from a caster that had elemental adept, does the fire damage of the monk bypass the caster's resistance to fire? I would think not, since the damage is redirected through the monk and has a new damage roll, but my group had a bit of a debate on the topic.
What do you guys think?
It's a bit convoluted, but actually a good question. From my point of view, even if it is a deflect attack and therefore has the same properties as the initial attack, this attack was deflected by someone who does not have the “element adept” feat and therefore does not have the ability to make the most of the deflect element. One could say that the spell is no longer a spell but a deflect attack and therefore loses the property of the “element adept” feat.
At least, that's my personal interpretation, and since I haven't found any specific rules on the matter, it can be interpreted in different ways depending on the DM's choice and the rules of the group.
Level 3: Deflect Attacks
When an attack roll hits you and its damage includes Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, you can take a Reaction to reduce the attack’s total damage against you. The reduction equals 1d10 plus your Dexterity modifier and Monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can expend 1 Focus Point to redirect some of the attack’s force. If you do so, choose a creature you can see within 5 feet of yourself if the attack was a melee attack or a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself that isn’t behind Total Cover if the attack was a ranged attack. That creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die plus your Dexterity modifier. The damage is the same type dealt by the attack.
Level 13: Deflect Energy
You can now use your Deflect Attacks feature against attacks that deal any damage type, not just Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing.
Elemental Adept
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Energy Mastery. Choose one of the following damage types: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder. Spells you cast ignore Resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.
Repeatable. You can take this feat more than once, but you must choose a different damage type each time for Energy Mastery.
Resistance
This is interesting. I'd say the attack would bypass the caster's resistance because the original attack was the Fire Bolt, redirected back toward the caster by the monk. To put that another way, the monk cannot deflect an attack that is not made, therefore the monk is not (directly) dealing the damage.
Also, to the OP's point that the damage directed through the monk has a new damage roll, it doesn't in the 2024 rules; it's a Dexterity saving throw. Deflect Missiles from 2014 Monk requires an attack roll, but then it can't be used with spells anyhow.
By the straight text of the rules, it doesn't, because it's not technically redirecting the attack -- it's reducing the damage and then making a second attack.
By the text of the fiction, it absolutely should keep all the same properties of the initial attack.
Minor point; it is a new Damage roll, just not a new Attack Roll under the 2024 rules. A 13th-level Monk with DEX 20 who trivially swats back the 1 Piercing Damage of a blowgun attack with Deflect Attacks and burns the Focus Point to redirect can do up to 25 Piercing (2d10+5) to a target that fails the Dex Save.
Under the 2014 rules, it would be a new Ranged Attack roll with Proficiency, and considered a Monk Weapon for those purposes, so only up to 12 Damage (1d8+5) on that redirected blowgun dart
On the situation in question in the original OP, I'd agree with Aanx; once redirected it's an effect under the control of the Monk, and unless the Monk has some way to make their own effects bypass Fire Resistance, the Fire Resistance of the targeted Caster applies to the Deflected Energy.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
The caster takes only the deflected damage if any. The elemental adept is not a rider that can be redirected back.