In 2024 rules I built a way of mercy monk, but I started with one level of rogue for skill proficiency, backstory and proficiency with daggers as a monk weapon
im trying to rebuild him with 2014 rules, but I can’t figure out if it’s worth the one level of rogue now
Well, one thing I'll point out is that the Monk class provides proficiency with daggers (and they count as a Monk weapon) in both 2014 and 2024 rules; there's no need to multiclass for that.
One level of Rogue gets you Sneak Attack, but Sneak Attack scales based on Rogue level, so if you go full-on Monk after that, its usefulness is going to fall off pretty quick. The extra skills and expertise are nice, but whether that matters or not is going to depend a lot on who else is in your party and whether they have a good spread of skills without you.
From a mechanical perspective, I would lean towards it not being worth it.
Is it worth it? That depends entirely on what you hope to gain from the particular multiclassing? For me, if I chose to dip, it would be a single level of Bard for the damage resistance in Rage. And that would be based on if the DM was pretty sure we'd never come close to 20th level.
single level of Bard for the damage resistance in Rage
You mean barbarian or is it a Keith Moon class?
I am under the impression that as the 2024 version is so much better, implies it is not worth it to even do 2014, but not having the books I am not sure.
As you do get a lot of monk improvements, it is probably not worth while to dip a level as there is not a lot of level 1 advantages that are superior to that higher level in monk.
Well, one thing I'll point out is that the Monk class provides proficiency with daggers (and they count as a Monk weapon) in both 2014 and 2024 rules; there's no need to multiclass for that.
One level of Rogue gets you Sneak Attack, but Sneak Attack scales based on Rogue level, so if you go full-on Monk after that, its usefulness is going to fall off pretty quick. The extra skills and expertise are nice, but whether that matters or not is going to depend a lot on who else is in your party and whether they have a good spread of skills without you.
From a mechanical perspective, I would lean towards it not being worth it.
I’m wondering if the OP meant mastery in daggers, not proficiency. That extra nick attack doing martial arts damage die is appealing. Plus more skills and expertise. And while absolutely the d6 damage falls off in value pretty quickly, it’s better than a poke in the eye. Personally, I’d still stick with single class 24 monk, as you can get expertise through a feat, but I can see it being a little tempting.
single level of Bard for the damage resistance in Rage
You mean barbarian or is it a Keith Moon class?
I am under the impression that as the 2024 version is so much better, implies it is not worth it to even do 2014, but not having the books I am not sure.
As you do get a lot of monk improvements, it is probably not worth while to dip a level as there is not a lot of level 1 advantages that are superior to that higher level in monk.
Honestly, I would tend to agree. Not Getting Hit In the First Place is superior to Soaking Much Damage in most cases, and the '24 Monk is very good at Not Getting Hit If I Don't Want To Be.
Also, having to have 13 STR, 13 DEX and 13 Wis for the Multiclass. Strength is mostly redundant on a Monk. Bonus actions are also load-bearing for Monks in my estimation; Burning one to activate Rage is pricy.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Well, one thing I'll point out is that the Monk class provides proficiency with daggers (and they count as a Monk weapon) in both 2014 and 2024 rules; there's no need to multiclass for that.
One level of Rogue gets you Sneak Attack, but Sneak Attack scales based on Rogue level, so if you go full-on Monk after that, its usefulness is going to fall off pretty quick. The extra skills and expertise are nice, but whether that matters or not is going to depend a lot on who else is in your party and whether they have a good spread of skills without you.
From a mechanical perspective, I would lean towards it not being worth it.
I’m wondering if the OP meant mastery in daggers, not proficiency. That extra nick attack doing martial arts damage die is appealing. Plus more skills and expertise. And while absolutely the d6 damage falls off in value pretty quickly, it’s better than a poke in the eye. Personally, I’d still stick with single class 24 monk, as you can get expertise through a feat, but I can see it being a little tempting.
Yes I checked again, I meant Mastery, Monks don’t get them otherwise I don’t think
Getting mastery in two weapons is very useful on a monk in 2024. The obvious answer is vex/nick giving you an extra attack on your attack action. The less obvious answer would be some of the other masteries. Quarterstaff for topple. Mace for Sap. The monk doesn't NEED these things, but it can be very helpful.
The extra skills are excellent and shouldn't be discounted in a less fighty game. In particular expertise in two skills makes you not just good but excellent.
Sneak attack in particular if you go with a vex or topple weapon to give yourself advantage is always there just slowly giving you damage. Again its not great, but its still good.
That all adds up to a very good result. With the Nick weapon property you can survive the one level delay with extra attack. I don't think its an A+ multiclass, but it is stronger.
1 level in Ranger gets you a couple of weapon masteries, a proficiency, and hunter's mark all of which helps Monk out tremendously, giving you great options for the foundational building blocks of your overall monk character. With Nick, by the time you get extra attack and your flurry of blows is enhanced, Hunter's Mark gives you an additional potential 6d6 force damage per turn that is nothing to scoff at. Giving up the level 20 milestone is a big trade off, assuming you get to that level, but I think it's a really solid multiclass option that barely eats into your Monk leveling.
1 level in Ranger gets you a couple of weapon masteries, a proficiency, and hunter's mark all of which helps Monk out tremendously, giving you great options for the foundational building blocks of your overall monk character. With Nick, by the time you get extra attack and your flurry of blows is enhanced, Hunter's Mark gives you an additional potential 6d6 force damage per turn that is nothing to scoff at. Giving up the level 20 milestone is a big trade off, assuming you get to that level, but I think it's a really solid multiclass option that barely eats into your Monk leveling.
I beg to differ on the overall answer. I agree that getting one level of ranger is good. It does appear to match up.
That said,I don't think unarmed gets you weapon mastery, and if you plan on unarmed combat, that results in less advantage to use weapon mastery. So now you get the Hex spell, is that worth while?
I disagree with the opinion that it "barely eats into your monk leveling"
If you are creating a higher level monk, then yes you are correct. I have a 6th level monk and a level of something else. That other M/C level is not barely, but a major eat into monk levels. I have lost out on evasiveness. I will get my ASI bonus a bit late.
In my case I deem the M/C as valuable as it gets me the overall character I want, it fits my idea of this character. So as a Roleplay feature this is 100% great and well worth it. As a combat segment, I grit my teeth and soldier through because it has put me behind. In a nutshell RP makes the M/C worth it. Combat does not make M/C worthwhile.
It comes down to every case is different. It depends when you start the character, and if the advantage outweighs the actual pain. Only the player can ultimately answer that question.
1 level in Ranger gets you a couple of weapon masteries, a proficiency, and hunter's mark all of which helps Monk out tremendously, giving you great options for the foundational building blocks of your overall monk character. With Nick, by the time you get extra attack and your flurry of blows is enhanced, Hunter's Mark gives you an additional potential 6d6 force damage per turn that is nothing to scoff at. Giving up the level 20 milestone is a big trade off, assuming you get to that level, but I think it's a really solid multiclass option that barely eats into your Monk leveling.
I beg to differ on the overall answer. I agree that getting one level of ranger is good. It does appear to match up.
That said,I don't think unarmed gets you weapon mastery, and if you plan on unarmed combat, that results in less advantage to use weapon mastery. So now you get the Hex spell, is that worth while?
I disagree with the opinion that it "barely eats into your monk leveling"
If you are creating a higher level monk, then yes you are correct. I have a 6th level monk and a level of something else. That other M/C level is not barely, but a major eat into monk levels. I have lost out on evasiveness. I will get my ASI bonus a bit late.
I agree generally, that the m/c is not a great idea. I just want to say, the idea with mastery in a monk isn’t about unarmed. Generally you take it in the dagger, which is a nick weapon. So at level 5, I guess level 6 if you’re monk 5/ranger 1, you have 2 normal attacks, plus a nick attack with a dagger. Then you flurry for two more attacks. So that dip gave you an extra dagger attack.
To me the real problem with the m/c is the action economy. You spend your BA putting hunters mark on the target, then you just have your action left, so no flurry. And in practice, the target will usually be dead before your turn comes around again. So hunters mark won’t actually be all that useful. Monks already have a lot of BA options, they don’t need another one.
You could just stick with monk and take the feat for the mastery.
One thing to keep in mind too that I didn’t see discussed is missing out on your level 20 capstone (if you are playing that far). It’s pretty awesome to have your stats go +4 in areas that benefit them.
Another thing to keep in mind is you are delaying how soon you get all your other abilities
To answer your question, no I don’t think it’s worth it. Having said that, it’s not the end of the world if you are stuck with this choice.
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In 2024 rules I built a way of mercy monk, but I started with one level of rogue for skill proficiency, backstory and proficiency with daggers as a monk weapon
im trying to rebuild him with 2014 rules, but I can’t figure out if it’s worth the one level of rogue now
any advice?
Well, one thing I'll point out is that the Monk class provides proficiency with daggers (and they count as a Monk weapon) in both 2014 and 2024 rules; there's no need to multiclass for that.
One level of Rogue gets you Sneak Attack, but Sneak Attack scales based on Rogue level, so if you go full-on Monk after that, its usefulness is going to fall off pretty quick. The extra skills and expertise are nice, but whether that matters or not is going to depend a lot on who else is in your party and whether they have a good spread of skills without you.
From a mechanical perspective, I would lean towards it not being worth it.
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Is it worth it? That depends entirely on what you hope to gain from the particular multiclassing? For me, if I chose to dip, it would be a single level of Bard for the damage resistance in Rage. And that would be based on if the DM was pretty sure we'd never come close to 20th level.
You mean barbarian or is it a Keith Moon class?
I am under the impression that as the 2024 version is so much better, implies it is not worth it to even do 2014, but not having the books I am not sure.
As you do get a lot of monk improvements, it is probably not worth while to dip a level as there is not a lot of level 1 advantages that are superior to that higher level in monk.
I’m wondering if the OP meant mastery in daggers, not proficiency. That extra nick attack doing martial arts damage die is appealing. Plus more skills and expertise. And while absolutely the d6 damage falls off in value pretty quickly, it’s better than a poke in the eye.
Personally, I’d still stick with single class 24 monk, as you can get expertise through a feat, but I can see it being a little tempting.
Honestly, I would tend to agree. Not Getting Hit In the First Place is superior to Soaking Much Damage in most cases, and the '24 Monk is very good at Not Getting Hit If I Don't Want To Be.
Also, having to have 13 STR, 13 DEX and 13 Wis for the Multiclass. Strength is mostly redundant on a Monk. Bonus actions are also load-bearing for Monks in my estimation; Burning one to activate Rage is pricy.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Yes I checked again, I meant Mastery, Monks don’t get them otherwise I don’t think
Getting mastery in two weapons is very useful on a monk in 2024. The obvious answer is vex/nick giving you an extra attack on your attack action. The less obvious answer would be some of the other masteries. Quarterstaff for topple. Mace for Sap. The monk doesn't NEED these things, but it can be very helpful.
The extra skills are excellent and shouldn't be discounted in a less fighty game. In particular expertise in two skills makes you not just good but excellent.
Sneak attack in particular if you go with a vex or topple weapon to give yourself advantage is always there just slowly giving you damage. Again its not great, but its still good.
That all adds up to a very good result. With the Nick weapon property you can survive the one level delay with extra attack. I don't think its an A+ multiclass, but it is stronger.
1 level in Ranger gets you a couple of weapon masteries, a proficiency, and hunter's mark all of which helps Monk out tremendously, giving you great options for the foundational building blocks of your overall monk character. With Nick, by the time you get extra attack and your flurry of blows is enhanced, Hunter's Mark gives you an additional potential 6d6 force damage per turn that is nothing to scoff at. Giving up the level 20 milestone is a big trade off, assuming you get to that level, but I think it's a really solid multiclass option that barely eats into your Monk leveling.
I beg to differ on the overall answer. I agree that getting one level of ranger is good. It does appear to match up.
That said,I don't think unarmed gets you weapon mastery, and if you plan on unarmed combat, that results in less advantage to use weapon mastery. So now you get the Hex spell, is that worth while?
I disagree with the opinion that it "barely eats into your monk leveling"
If you are creating a higher level monk, then yes you are correct. I have a 6th level monk and a level of something else. That other M/C level is not barely, but a major eat into monk levels. I have lost out on evasiveness. I will get my ASI bonus a bit late.
In my case I deem the M/C as valuable as it gets me the overall character I want, it fits my idea of this character. So as a Roleplay feature this is 100% great and well worth it. As a combat segment, I grit my teeth and soldier through because it has put me behind. In a nutshell RP makes the M/C worth it. Combat does not make M/C worthwhile.
It comes down to every case is different. It depends when you start the character, and if the advantage outweighs the actual pain. Only the player can ultimately answer that question.
I agree generally, that the m/c is not a great idea.
I just want to say, the idea with mastery in a monk isn’t about unarmed. Generally you take it in the dagger, which is a nick weapon. So at level 5, I guess level 6 if you’re monk 5/ranger 1, you have 2 normal attacks, plus a nick attack with a dagger. Then you flurry for two more attacks. So that dip gave you an extra dagger attack.
To me the real problem with the m/c is the action economy. You spend your BA putting hunters mark on the target, then you just have your action left, so no flurry. And in practice, the target will usually be dead before your turn comes around again. So hunters mark won’t actually be all that useful. Monks already have a lot of BA options, they don’t need another one.
You could just stick with monk and take the feat for the mastery.
One thing to keep in mind too that I didn’t see discussed is missing out on your level 20 capstone (if you are playing that far). It’s pretty awesome to have your stats go +4 in areas that benefit them.
Another thing to keep in mind is you are delaying how soon you get all your other abilities
To answer your question, no I don’t think it’s worth it. Having said that, it’s not the end of the world if you are stuck with this choice.