Oath of the Ancients Paladins were my favorite 5e class. I took two Ancients Paladins to lvl 20. I could swallow the smite nerf even though I detest it, but I'm deeply disappointed with the change to Aura of Warding. I liked the flavor of an Ancients Paladin being protected against magic and playing as an anti-mage specialist. Being protected against three arbitrary types across all of the possible hurts. I get necrotic and radiant, but Psychic? Why? And then the three of them feel so skewed towards rather rare damage types. I used to be able to play with rando's tanking a group and calling for a 'fireball on me'. Now I'm going to be like every other player getting pissed when clipped by friendly fire.
I'm also pretty peeved about the loss of cure disease via lay on hands. Curing disease has been a paladin staple right back to AD&D. I'm terrified what they're going to do to Ranger.
Assuming we can still create a 5E paladin (or any other class they mess up) in DDB. I know they've said they're supporting legacy stuff, but I don't imagine that will extend to new characters being created with 5E rules.
I'm withholding judgment until I see more, but if that's the case, and the other classes get similar nerfs, I will likely be ditching DDB and using something else.
Assuming we can still create a 5E paladin (or any other class they mess up) in DDB. I know they've said they're supporting legacy stuff, but I don't imagine that will extend to new characters being created with 5E rules.
I'm withholding judgment until I see more, but if that's the case, and the other classes get similar nerfs, I will likely be ditching DDB and using something else.
i dont think they would just lie like that but if you do there are other good services out there even another major getting alot of updates
New smite is a verbal spell that requires a bonus action.
Cant be used with reaction attacks.
Cant be used with bonus action attacks.
CAN be counterspelled.
CAN be completely shut down for extended periods of time by silence.
Eagerly awaiting the change to “once per turn” without being a spell Errata.
it doesnt even need to be limited to once per turn tbh the paladin has only so many smites for them to use and once they use them all boom thats it no more smites oh well
New smite is a verbal spell that requires a bonus action.
Cant be used with reaction attacks.
Cant be used with bonus action attacks.
CAN be counterspelled.
CAN be completely shut down for extended periods of time by silence.
Eagerly awaiting the change to “once per turn” without being a spell Errata.
it doesnt even need to be limited to once per turn tbh the paladin has only so many smites for them to use and once they use them all boom thats it no more smites oh well
i see this nerf to be as bad as if they took away cantrips from the game
it gets even "funnier" if you decide to use it in this form, and you use anything that weaponize your Bonus action ( spiritual weapon, 2weapons, Polearm mastery, GWMastery ) you loose damage if you use a spell slot of 1st or 2nd level .....
not too mention that the warlock with pact of the blade is now doing almost 50% more damage then the paladin ....
Like I said in the other thread, I'm sticking to 5e rules when it comes to Divine Smite. They completely trashed this ability. And given the fact it can be counterspelled?!? Somebody was on a perc 100 when they thought that BS was a good idea lol
so get ready for 80-90% of the paladins looking like drizzt clones ... if the table doesn't houserule this stuff back to 2014 version ( which is the sane thing to do )
weapon mastery : nick + flex ( if not using a scimitar ) feat : dual wielder ( if you want to use a longsword in your mainhand ) fighting style : dual wielding
weapons : longsword & scimitar/dagger/light hammer or scimitar / scimitar -> no need for dw feat + flex
but its an offense beyond believe to be put in a niche build, just so you can weaponize your bonus action if you want to still use divine smite.
add in this doesn't fix all the other uses for bonus actions, which will be not available when you smite ( too many too list )
One interesting design thing I noticed: All three "half" casters, Ranger, Paladin, Warlock*, get their damage boost from a bonus action 1st level spell (Hunter's Mark, Hex, Divine Smite). If they keep the Hunter's Mark revisions they might have 3 different mechanics. All three will have their bonus action clogged by design. All three will be able to have their class based damage boost counterspelled and subject to magic resistance, etc. We can discuss which is the strongest, but the gods of game balance have done their work.
*Yes Warlocks are not true half casters, but from the UA process clearly the developers view them that way.
I personally think that the new paladin is just fine. I understand why you're upset, but I think that the anger is a bit overblown.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I uhhh don't think that paladins need to be able to smite more than 1/round.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I can see why they would make paladins Smites only one time per round. What I don't get is how is it balanced to spend the following: Action, Bonus action, Spell slot for the CHANCE to make 2d8 damage as a martial once per turn. It's like a front loaded HM / Hex. All of the paladin changes are just shuffling so the class works with Smite being BA and a spell. Oh yeah and a free smite / level 1 horse a day. Eldritch knight booming blade is a better smite than smite.
Paladins are OP only when multi-classed with fighters or casters - Action surge and full caster spell slot abuse. Straight classed paladin can make 3 attacks with bonus action at best. So this really isn't something major. Considering how many slots they have.
All they had to do was make Action surge a level 5 feature and decouple smite from spell slots so casters can't abuse it. They could have handled smites like battle master maneuvers "x number of smite dice" with DS as baseline and you choose the other Smite "maneuvers" from a list. You could also let paladins spend spell slots for EXTRA mechanics like targeting more targets, more damage, longer effect etc. etc. But NO lets nerf Paladins and buff Warlocks and Fighters. And this is coming from a person that plays bards, warlocks and fighters mainly.
PS. I bet they are nerfing Bards or magical secrets really hard, because if they do not - at level 10 a bard can grab DS and holy weapon and be a better paladin than the paladin with Swords / Valor. Maybe 1 lvl dip in warlock for pact of the blade.
if they haven't changed the magical secrets from the UA version get ready for a buff, because you could choose 2 spells at 11th & 2 spells at 15th lvl, and each time you choose a spell list ( arcane, divine, primal ) that you acquire them from. Now for the buff, bards were considered a class that needs to prepare spells ( no idea if that was changed ) and you could change your magical secret spells every time you prepared your spells ( e.g. a long rest ).
taking DS & holy weapon wouldn't be my choice : i would take DS & Spirit Guardian, and take the hex spell with a background that grants magic initiate ( Arcane ), since all backgrounds will now grant you a level 1 feats now.
Using Hex for single Boss-style and Spirit Guardian for many opponents.
Magic initiate was changed in the UA to that you can cast it once for free, but use your availalbe spell slots for further casts
so the only thing a bard is missing then from a paladin are LoH and the Aura, but gives you a lot more goodies :) sure Paladin could also get the Hex spell with MI feat, but he doesn't have the spell slots to make that worthwhile until he reaches at least lvl 14-15+.
Agree, it's 5e for me and my group
Oath of the Ancients Paladins were my favorite 5e class. I took two Ancients Paladins to lvl 20. I could swallow the smite nerf even though I detest it, but I'm deeply disappointed with the change to Aura of Warding. I liked the flavor of an Ancients Paladin being protected against magic and playing as an anti-mage specialist. Being protected against three arbitrary types across all of the possible hurts. I get necrotic and radiant, but Psychic? Why? And then the three of them feel so skewed towards rather rare damage types. I used to be able to play with rando's tanking a group and calling for a 'fireball on me'. Now I'm going to be like every other player getting pissed when clipped by friendly fire.
I'm also pretty peeved about the loss of cure disease via lay on hands. Curing disease has been a paladin staple right back to AD&D.
I'm terrified what they're going to do to Ranger.
just run current paladin
Assuming we can still create a 5E paladin (or any other class they mess up) in DDB. I know they've said they're supporting legacy stuff, but I don't imagine that will extend to new characters being created with 5E rules.
I'm withholding judgment until I see more, but if that's the case, and the other classes get similar nerfs, I will likely be ditching DDB and using something else.
New smite is a verbal spell that requires a bonus action.
Cant be used with reaction attacks.
Cant be used with bonus action attacks.
CAN be counterspelled.
CAN be completely shut down for extended periods of time by silence.
Eagerly awaiting the change to “once per turn” without being a spell Errata.
i dont think they would just lie like that but if you do there are other good services out there even another major getting alot of updates
it doesnt even need to be limited to once per turn tbh the paladin has only so many smites for them to use and once they use them all boom thats it no more smites oh well
i see this nerf to be as bad as if they took away cantrips from the game
it gets even "funnier" if you decide to use it in this form, and you use anything that weaponize your Bonus action ( spiritual weapon, 2weapons, Polearm mastery, GWMastery ) you loose damage if you use a spell slot of 1st or 2nd level .....
not too mention that the warlock with pact of the blade is now doing almost 50% more damage then the paladin ....
Like I said in the other thread, I'm sticking to 5e rules when it comes to Divine Smite. They completely trashed this ability. And given the fact it can be counterspelled?!? Somebody was on a perc 100 when they thought that BS was a good idea lol
so get ready for 80-90% of the paladins looking like drizzt clones ... if the table doesn't houserule this stuff back to 2014 version ( which is the sane thing to do )
weapon mastery : nick + flex ( if not using a scimitar )
feat : dual wielder ( if you want to use a longsword in your mainhand )
fighting style : dual wielding
weapons : longsword & scimitar/dagger/light hammer
or scimitar / scimitar -> no need for dw feat + flex
but its an offense beyond believe to be put in a niche build, just so you can weaponize your bonus action if you want to still use divine smite.
add in this doesn't fix all the other uses for bonus actions, which will be not available when you smite ( too many too list )
One interesting design thing I noticed:
All three "half" casters, Ranger, Paladin, Warlock*, get their damage boost from a bonus action 1st level spell (Hunter's Mark, Hex, Divine Smite). If they keep the Hunter's Mark revisions they might have 3 different mechanics. All three will have their bonus action clogged by design. All three will be able to have their class based damage boost counterspelled and subject to magic resistance, etc. We can discuss which is the strongest, but the gods of game balance have done their work.
*Yes Warlocks are not true half casters, but from the UA process clearly the developers view them that way.
I've completely given up on playing a Pally for a good time now, I'm enjoying the simplicity of Battle Master fighters.
It's a simple life, but also an honest one.
“If you define yourself by the power to take life, the desire to dominate, to possess...then you have nothing.”
Characters:
JĂłni Dawnbrow | Mountain Dwarf Battle Master | LVL. 3
Atherhiwion "Jehan" Oakmane | Wood Elf Circle of the Moon Druid | LVL. 5
RIP Markus Wulfenhauer | Variant Human Oath Of Ancients Paladin | LVL. 11
I personally think that the new paladin is just fine. I understand why you're upset, but I think that the anger is a bit overblown.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
i was angry but tbh its an easy homebrew fix to just allow pallys to smite on every attack
I uhhh don't think that paladins need to be able to smite more than 1/round.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
and thats 100% fine thats the best thing about homebrew and fixing things
I can see why they would make paladins Smites only one time per round. What I don't get is how is it balanced to spend the following: Action, Bonus action, Spell slot for the CHANCE to make 2d8 damage as a martial once per turn. It's like a front loaded HM / Hex. All of the paladin changes are just shuffling so the class works with Smite being BA and a spell. Oh yeah and a free smite / level 1 horse a day. Eldritch knight booming blade is a better smite than smite.
Paladins are OP only when multi-classed with fighters or casters - Action surge and full caster spell slot abuse. Straight classed paladin can make 3 attacks with bonus action at best. So this really isn't something major. Considering how many slots they have.
All they had to do was make Action surge a level 5 feature and decouple smite from spell slots so casters can't abuse it. They could have handled smites like battle master maneuvers "x number of smite dice" with DS as baseline and you choose the other Smite "maneuvers" from a list. You could also let paladins spend spell slots for EXTRA mechanics like targeting more targets, more damage, longer effect etc. etc. But NO lets nerf Paladins and buff Warlocks and Fighters. And this is coming from a person that plays bards, warlocks and fighters mainly.
PS. I bet they are nerfing Bards or magical secrets really hard, because if they do not - at level 10 a bard can grab DS and holy weapon and be a better paladin than the paladin with Swords / Valor. Maybe 1 lvl dip in warlock for pact of the blade.
if they haven't changed the magical secrets from the UA version get ready for a buff, because you could choose 2 spells at 11th & 2 spells at 15th lvl, and each time you choose a spell list ( arcane, divine, primal ) that you acquire them from. Now for the buff, bards were considered a class that needs to prepare spells ( no idea if that was changed ) and you could change your magical secret spells every time you prepared your spells ( e.g. a long rest ).
taking DS & holy weapon wouldn't be my choice : i would take DS & Spirit Guardian, and take the hex spell with a background that grants magic initiate ( Arcane ), since all backgrounds will now grant you a level 1 feats now.
Using Hex for single Boss-style and Spirit Guardian for many opponents.
Magic initiate was changed in the UA to that you can cast it once for free, but use your availalbe spell slots for further casts
so the only thing a bard is missing then from a paladin are LoH and the Aura, but gives you a lot more goodies :)
sure Paladin could also get the Hex spell with MI feat, but he doesn't have the spell slots to make that worthwhile until he reaches at least lvl 14-15+.
the missing armor can be got with a feat