Which part? There are buffs to paladins too. So, some good, some bad.
My largest issue with potential paladin changes is making Divine Smite a bonus action spell. By doing that, it would mean paladins can only ever smite on their own turn and it would conflict with anything else you want to do with your bonus action!
If you think about it, making Divine Smite a bonus action would...
1. Conflict with Vengeance Vow of Enmity, Devotion's Sacred Weapon (now a bonus action in One DnD) 2. Conflict with Polearm Master reverse attack 3. Conflict with Hexblade's Curse or any other bonus action option.
Since bonus actions ONLY occur on your turn, then paladins would never be able to Divine Smite with an Opportunity Attack or any attack granted by another classes feature allow you to attack.
I can deal with the paladins being able to not do the nova round damage (Divine Smite on every single attack) and only be able to Smite once per turn. But it taking up my bonus action is just too much. Unless changed, I think I would just stick with 5e and not convert to One DnD. That's a big problem for Wizards of the Coast imo, since they are coming from THE most popular edition of DnD ever, they have to convince us why we should change from it? I mean...we're happy with 5e, why should we change from it? So this is the WotC problem, making enough changes to 5e to warrant a new PHB, but not so many changes as to have people just stay with 5e. It's a tight line to walk for them.
I absolutely agree here. Though I'll say this. There is nothing broken about the Paladin being able to Smite every attack. It literally just puts it above a fighter in 5 rounds of a attack and this is something a Paladin is only able to do once a day. Any one complaining about the Paladin doesn't know how to run an adventuring Day per the way the game is actually balanced around and is complaining that the Paladin out damages everyone when the Fighter can do its average damage twice as often.
If I wanted to play a subpar fighter I'd go back and play 3.5ed as a Paladin over One D&D. Because with the changes they have just made a Paladin worse than it was in 3.5ed.
I'm a new DM. In my Session is a Paladin lv5, Rogue lv5 and Warlock lv5. All three make comparanle the same amount of Damage. Only difference is the Paladin need to burn his spell Slots.
Torvald99, this is not an equal moving of strength from one abiility to another as you imply. I would like to see the "buffs" you're talking about. All I see is a drastic reduction in damage, flavor, class identity, and for myself, loss of immersion. Paladins are losing smites here. If you want to smite, sword and board classic "Paladin" style, you will be weaker than the proposed cleric who can do the same thing better. The "return on loss" as they say, is that you now have many options on ways to smite! And they are actually serious in thinking that it somehow replaces the loss. Ill compare it to traveling through the woods. Your trail leads you to a forest, now, in 5e, your trail goes straight through that forest all the way to your destination town on the other side of the forest. We'll call that destination town "playing a paladin is fun-town". Now, with the proposed changes, once you get a ways into the forest, your trail splits into 3 paths. None of which lead out of the forest, and none of which even come close to your dedtination town. BUT...at least you have options!!! Right?! Dont forget about the options! There are now multiple ways to not enjoy yourself! Yay! Sorry, but I play a Paladin and only Paladins. In 5e it is thematic, I have a clearly defined party role, with an increasingly dry fuel tank. So, I burst or Nova, then retreat into my also fun support role. They are fixing a problem that doesnt exist here, and ignoring a big one...mounted combat. Mounted combat is where their attention was required. I dont have all the answers to that riddle, but I would have loved to see a better than half-hearted attempt at tackling that issue. You know, the one players were "actually" asking for? I never heard a player ask for the ability to punch-smite. Now, range-smite I have heard folks asking for, but I am staunchly against that as an option. Does not feel flavorful to the fantasy concept as related to the historical paladin. I have more to say about the 5th and 6th UA, but I will have to cover those issues at another time, but for now...I can honestly say this, with Hasbro's OGL debacle eroding my trust and brand faith, a Paladin that looks like this hot garbage making all the way to the finished product, will be enough to send me packing. No dice, wizards. You rolled a 1 here.
Torvald99, this is not an equal moving of strength from one abiility to another as you imply. I would like to see the "buffs" you're talking about. All I see is a drastic reduction in damage, flavor, class identity, and for myself, loss of immersion. Paladins are losing smites here. If you want to smite, sword and board classic "Paladin" style, you will be weaker than the proposed cleric who can do the same thing better. The "return on loss" as they say, is that you now have many options on ways to smite! And they are actually serious in thinking that it somehow replaces the loss. Ill compare it to traveling through the woods. Your trail leads you to a forest, now, in 5e, your trail goes straight through that forest all the way to your destination town on the other side of the forest. We'll call that destination town "playing a paladin is fun-town". Now, with the proposed changes, once you get a ways into the forest, your trail splits into 3 paths. None of which lead out of the forest, and none of which even come close to your dedtination town. BUT...at least you have options!!! Right?! Dont forget about the options! There are now multiple ways to not enjoy yourself! Yay! Sorry, but I play a Paladin and only Paladins. In 5e it is thematic, I have a clearly defined party role, with an increasingly dry fuel tank. So, I burst or Nova, then retreat into my also fun support role. They are fixing a problem that doesnt exist here, and ignoring a big one...mounted combat. Mounted combat is where their attention was required. I dont have all the answers to that riddle, but I would have loved to see a better than half-hearted attempt at tackling that issue. You know, the one players were "actually" asking for? I never heard a player ask for the ability to punch-smite. Now, range-smite I have heard folks asking for, but I am staunchly against that as an option. Does not feel flavorful to the fantasy concept as related to the historical paladin. I have more to say about the 5th and 6th UA, but I will have to cover those issues at another time, but for now...I can honestly say this, with Hasbro's OGL debacle eroding my trust and brand faith, a Paladin that looks like this hot garbage making all the way to the finished product, will be enough to send me packing. No dice, wizards. You rolled a 1 here.
I hate Divine Smite as a bonus action spell for the above listed reasons. I think that's a total non-starter for me.
But, since you asked about buffs are there for paladin?
Here are some positive changes, but I may miss some.
1. Lay on Hands is now a bonus action. Paladins always had the issue of wanting to heal, either themselves or a party member, but it was going to cost them their action. So no LoH and attacking in 5e, on your turn. Now, you can heal up AND get to attack on your turn! Which is helpful and a good change!
At 14th level, your Lay on Hands can remove different bad conditions, blinded, paralyzed, stunned, etc.
2. At 5th level, paladins get one free cast of Faithful Steed. This is a 2nd level spell slot value as a class ability. Situationally useful, but still useful. Since paladins are always spell slot poor, this helps.
3. Devotion's Sacred Weapon is now a bonus action, down from an action. This means a Devotion paladin doesn't have to waste their first turn action to activate the feature.
4. Vengeance Vow of Enmity is a 30ft range (up from 10 ft in 5e), still lasts a minute, but can be moved to a new creature if the original target dies! This is really strong, since I hated how the target of your Vow might die early and then was basically wasted. At early levels, there may not be a "big bad" who will last a whole number of turns to make your Vow really pay dividends, One DnD you can just move it to a new target.
5. Vengeance, 7th level, Relentless Avenger, now has a Sentinel like effect, where it reduces a creature's speed to zero if you hit them with an Opportunity Attack.
6. Abjure Foes, 9th level class ability, your CHA modifier number of foes have to make a WIS save or have the frightened and dazed conditions for one minute or until they take damage.
7. One DnD paladins can cast ritual spells.
8. Oath of Ancients, Nature's Wrath got a huge buff! In 5e, this was a god awful channel divinity. One creature affected, took your action and was a STR/DEX save of the creature's choice (lots of creatures are going to be good at one or the other STR/DEX) and if they failed, you could restrain them. Now, in Playtest 6, it's "each creature of your choice that you can see within 15 feet of you!" It's also in One DnD a STR save, not a STR or DEX. So, can affect many more creatures, potentially and weaker creatures will be more likely to fail the save.
Now I've probably missed something, but these are some buffs. There are also some negatives. But it's not ALL negatives. I will reiterate, I think Divine Smite as a bonus action is a total, total, complete non-starter! It will break the class, since it would compete with every other possible thing you want to use your bonus action for! So I hate that. But I like some of the changes.
the change to turn smites into spells with verbal component is a terrible nerf.
Silence, a 2nd level spell used by enemy or ally could lock out the hallmark feature of the paladin, from 120' away, in 40' diameter that potentially could move with the paladin, for 10 minutes if they can maintain concentration.
Yep. Smites turned into bonus action spells is a horrible, horrible nerf.
1. It takes away your paladin’s signature nova ability, turning paladins into a support class with some melee ability that is less helpful than a cleric.
2. It ruins your paladin’s action economy. How many things compete for your bonus action now?
3. It weakens smites overall when they do happen — counterspell and limited magical immunity will render your already nerfed paladin mostly irrelevant in key combats against many powerful creatures. Oh look, my bonus action once per combat round smite just got counterspelled again! And don’t even think about smiting Tiamat unless you are a cleric.
4. Some smite spells also compete with concentration, further harming your action economy.
5. Other changes are also pretty terrible. The paladin’s mount got a nerf — no shared spells, weaker than improved find steed at lvl 13. The capstones mostly got nerfed.
6. The Warlock ends up with a better nova smite in Eldritch Smite, plus gets three attacks now with thirsting blade, and a damage buff + leeching with lifedrinker. Want to play an old school paladin in one DND? Play a pact of the blade warlock celestial (devotion), fey (ancients), and fiend (oath breaker)…
Given the changes, if they stick, I don’t want to play one dnd paladins. I don’t really see what they’ve ’given’ one dnd paladins that makes them exciting or compelling vs a 5e paladin. The weapon mastery features are on other, better classes now as well. The warlock, fighter, ranger, monk, bard, cleric, and barbarian are all more appealing than this hollowed out shell of a once great class that Wizards left behind. And that’s a real bummer, because it takes away one of the really good flavors in the game.
Yep. Smites turned into bonus action spells is a horrible, horrible nerf.
1. It takes away your paladin’s signature nova ability, turning paladins into a support class with some melee ability that is less helpful than a cleric.
2. It ruins your paladin’s action economy. How many things compete for your bonus action now?
3. It weakens smites overall when they do happen — counterspell and limited magical immunity will render your already nerfed paladin mostly irrelevant in key combats against many powerful creatures. Oh look, my bonus action once per combat round smite just got counterspelled again! And don’t even think about smiting Tiamat unless you are a cleric.
4. Some smite spells also compete with concentration, further harming your action economy.
5. Other changes are also pretty terrible. The paladin’s mount got a nerf — no shared spells, weaker than improved find steed at lvl 13. The capstones mostly got nerfed.
6. The Warlock ends up with a better nova smite in Eldritch Smite, plus gets three attacks now with thirsting blade, and a damage buff + leeching with lifedrinker. Want to play an old school paladin in one DND? Play a pact of the blade warlock celestial (devotion), fey (ancients), and fiend (oath breaker)…
Given the changes, if they stick, I don’t want to play one dnd paladins. I don’t really see what they’ve ’given’ one dnd paladins that makes them exciting or compelling vs a 5e paladin. The weapon mastery features are on other, better classes now as well. The warlock, fighter, ranger, monk, bard, cleric, and barbarian are all more appealing than this hollowed out shell of a once great class that Wizards left behind. And that’s a real bummer, because it takes away one of the really good flavors in the game.
Being able to use a smite spell once per turn and only on your turn is a nerf, yes, but it's not nearly as dire as you're making it out to be.
1. Yes, it reduces the paladin's ability to burn their resources in a single turn to do a bunch of damage. Saying this makes them a worse melee cleric is ridiculous. Paladin is a d10 hit die, heavy armor-wearing, martial weapon-wielding class with spellcasting. It now has weapon mastery, which can be stacked on top of all the smite spells. They can heal themselves or others with Lay on Hands, a resource independent of spell slots, and it's now a bonus action, so you can save yourself or your friends and use your action to do something else on the same turn. They still have Aura of Protection which did not get nerfed and is unquestionably one of the most powerful class features in the entire game. They are immune to the frightened condition by level 10, which lets them ignore one of the major weaknesses that melee martial characters have.
2. Smite spells, Lay on Hands, and some subclass features all use your bonus action now, where previously paladin had next to nothing to use its bonus action on outside of feats and a handful of spells. Don't you think it's asking a bit much to be able to do some or all of those things on one turn?
3. If your DM is counterspelling a smite spell instead of whatever your party's wizard is doing, I'd call that a win.
4. Two of the smite spells use concentration (Shining Smite and Banishing Smite). The rest that previously did require concentration no longer require it.
5. "Other changes?" Are we going to ignore that they got a brand new feature at level 9 that is an area-of-effect crowd control ability on a class that can already do so much? Also, Find Steed's casting time is an action now, down from 10 minutes. That means you can call forth that mount in combat. That mount now also has a unique ability determined by what creature type you decide it is.
6. Warlock doesn't have heavy armor, Lay on Hands, or Aura of Protection. Not everything is about dealing damage.
It's a bit hyperbolic to say that paladin is a "hollowed out shell of a once great class" just because smite spells now require your bonus action to activate. Paladin can and still does all the things paladin can do now, and it also got buffed overall. As someone who has played the 2014 version of the class and has playtested the latest version of it extensively, I'm satisfied with what we've seen thus far.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
stopping a paladin from blowing all their spell slots in one fight by telling them no after they have been use to it for so long makes no sense. it feels pointless and a weird change tbh
"It's a bit hyperbolic to say that paladin is a "hollowed out shell of a once great class" just because smite spells now require your bonus action to activate. Paladin can and still does all the things paladin can do now, and it also got buffed overall. As someone who has played the 2014 version of the class and has playtested the latest version of it extensively, I'm satisfied with what we've seen thus far."
One of the problems for Wizards, not just with the paladin but for all of One DnD is it's going to have to compete with 5e...the most successful edition of DnD! So One DnD started off with a tough sell, no matter what changes were made. It's like Hollywood trying to do a remake of a movie that won an Academy Award and was exceptionally well done the first time! Even when the re-do is a decent movie, it still may not be as good as the original.
It will be interesting to see how many people just keep playing 5e, as is, even after One DnD comes out?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
No paladin build was able to smite every encounter. At best, you could pull a nova or two at just the right time for dramatic effect and save the day. That is what heroes do.
What this does is take the choice away from the player on how to approach using their abilities.
Personally I typically used my smites for critical hits on tough opponents or to finish off a difficult encounter faster, in the bad guy has taken a lot of damage
Where I really used it was on incoming attacks of opportunities when it would make a difference.
Straight paladins are off the table. Now there is zero reason NOT to play a Paladin/Warlock hybrid class.
NOTE: Did they edit the UA 6 Druids and Paladins and I missed it? It says once per turn on a successful hit, and only in a turn you didn't cast a spell. That's pretty awful in that document, did they revise it to be a bonus action as well?
(Shield and Spear Dueling FTW)
3.5e at least had the decency to come out AFTER 3.0.
With 5e available, I see no reason adopt One. Hard pass.
I think one solution would be to require the use divines smite before the attack roll so there is a risk involved in smiting on everything. Although it feels terrible when you crit and didn’t proclaim smite. Also makes thematic sense imbue the weapon with divine energy before attacking.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I for one will be sticking with 5e. It's a little more forgiving than the min maxing of 3.0e and 3.5e, but maintains the spirit for fun play.
When I play a spellcaster or a class that has resources, I want to decide how to use them, not be locked into a very specific play style, which is what the new smite does.
I enjoy using my spells, and have very rarely ever spammed smite unless it was to absolutely save the day or stop a tpk.
Does that always work? No. And that's why it wasn't broken.
Let it's no fun if you make it so there's no way to play other than a railroad track.
Why are there no threads discussing this?
Which part? There are buffs to paladins too. So, some good, some bad.
My largest issue with potential paladin changes is making Divine Smite a bonus action spell. By doing that, it would mean paladins can only ever smite on their own turn and it would conflict with anything else you want to do with your bonus action!
If you think about it, making Divine Smite a bonus action would...
1. Conflict with Vengeance Vow of Enmity, Devotion's Sacred Weapon (now a bonus action in One DnD)
2. Conflict with Polearm Master reverse attack
3. Conflict with Hexblade's Curse or any other bonus action option.
Since bonus actions ONLY occur on your turn, then paladins would never be able to Divine Smite with an Opportunity Attack or any attack granted by another classes feature allow you to attack.
I can deal with the paladins being able to not do the nova round damage (Divine Smite on every single attack) and only be able to Smite once per turn. But it taking up my bonus action is just too much. Unless changed, I think I would just stick with 5e and not convert to One DnD. That's a big problem for Wizards of the Coast imo, since they are coming from THE most popular edition of DnD ever, they have to convince us why we should change from it? I mean...we're happy with 5e, why should we change from it? So this is the WotC problem, making enough changes to 5e to warrant a new PHB, but not so many changes as to have people just stay with 5e. It's a tight line to walk for them.
I absolutely agree here. Though I'll say this. There is nothing broken about the Paladin being able to Smite every attack. It literally just puts it above a fighter in 5 rounds of a attack and this is something a Paladin is only able to do once a day. Any one complaining about the Paladin doesn't know how to run an adventuring Day per the way the game is actually balanced around and is complaining that the Paladin out damages everyone when the Fighter can do its average damage twice as often.
If I wanted to play a subpar fighter I'd go back and play 3.5ed as a Paladin over One D&D. Because with the changes they have just made a Paladin worse than it was in 3.5ed.
I'm a new DM. In my Session is a Paladin lv5, Rogue lv5 and Warlock lv5. All three make comparanle the same amount of Damage. Only difference is the Paladin need to burn his spell Slots.
Torvald99, this is not an equal moving of strength from one abiility to another as you imply. I would like to see the "buffs" you're talking about. All I see is a drastic reduction in damage, flavor, class identity, and for myself, loss of immersion. Paladins are losing smites here. If you want to smite, sword and board classic "Paladin" style, you will be weaker than the proposed cleric who can do the same thing better. The "return on loss" as they say, is that you now have many options on ways to smite! And they are actually serious in thinking that it somehow replaces the loss. Ill compare it to traveling through the woods. Your trail leads you to a forest, now, in 5e, your trail goes straight through that forest all the way to your destination town on the other side of the forest. We'll call that destination town "playing a paladin is fun-town". Now, with the proposed changes, once you get a ways into the forest, your trail splits into 3 paths. None of which lead out of the forest, and none of which even come close to your dedtination town. BUT...at least you have options!!! Right?! Dont forget about the options! There are now multiple ways to not enjoy yourself! Yay! Sorry, but I play a Paladin and only Paladins. In 5e it is thematic, I have a clearly defined party role, with an increasingly dry fuel tank. So, I burst or Nova, then retreat into my also fun support role. They are fixing a problem that doesnt exist here, and ignoring a big one...mounted combat. Mounted combat is where their attention was required. I dont have all the answers to that riddle, but I would have loved to see a better than half-hearted attempt at tackling that issue. You know, the one players were "actually" asking for? I never heard a player ask for the ability to punch-smite. Now, range-smite I have heard folks asking for, but I am staunchly against that as an option. Does not feel flavorful to the fantasy concept as related to the historical paladin. I have more to say about the 5th and 6th UA, but I will have to cover those issues at another time, but for now...I can honestly say this, with Hasbro's OGL debacle eroding my trust and brand faith, a Paladin that looks like this hot garbage making all the way to the finished product, will be enough to send me packing. No dice, wizards. You rolled a 1 here.
I hate Divine Smite as a bonus action spell for the above listed reasons. I think that's a total non-starter for me.
But, since you asked about buffs are there for paladin?
Here are some positive changes, but I may miss some.
1. Lay on Hands is now a bonus action. Paladins always had the issue of wanting to heal, either themselves or a party member, but it was going to cost them their action. So no LoH and attacking in 5e, on your turn. Now, you can heal up AND get to attack on your turn! Which is helpful and a good change!
At 14th level, your Lay on Hands can remove different bad conditions, blinded, paralyzed, stunned, etc.
2. At 5th level, paladins get one free cast of Faithful Steed. This is a 2nd level spell slot value as a class ability. Situationally useful, but still useful. Since paladins are always spell slot poor, this helps.
3. Devotion's Sacred Weapon is now a bonus action, down from an action. This means a Devotion paladin doesn't have to waste their first turn action to activate the feature.
4. Vengeance Vow of Enmity is a 30ft range (up from 10 ft in 5e), still lasts a minute, but can be moved to a new creature if the original target dies! This is really strong, since I hated how the target of your Vow might die early and then was basically wasted. At early levels, there may not be a "big bad" who will last a whole number of turns to make your Vow really pay dividends, One DnD you can just move it to a new target.
5. Vengeance, 7th level, Relentless Avenger, now has a Sentinel like effect, where it reduces a creature's speed to zero if you hit them with an Opportunity Attack.
6. Abjure Foes, 9th level class ability, your CHA modifier number of foes have to make a WIS save or have the frightened and dazed conditions for one minute or until they take damage.
7. One DnD paladins can cast ritual spells.
8. Oath of Ancients, Nature's Wrath got a huge buff! In 5e, this was a god awful channel divinity. One creature affected, took your action and was a STR/DEX save of the creature's choice (lots of creatures are going to be good at one or the other STR/DEX) and if they failed, you could restrain them. Now, in Playtest 6, it's "each creature of your choice that you can see within 15 feet of you!" It's also in One DnD a STR save, not a STR or DEX. So, can affect many more creatures, potentially and weaker creatures will be more likely to fail the save.
Now I've probably missed something, but these are some buffs. There are also some negatives. But it's not ALL negatives. I will reiterate, I think Divine Smite as a bonus action is a total, total, complete non-starter! It will break the class, since it would compete with every other possible thing you want to use your bonus action for! So I hate that. But I like some of the changes.
the change to turn smites into spells with verbal component is a terrible nerf.
Silence, a 2nd level spell used by enemy or ally could lock out the hallmark feature of the paladin, from 120' away, in 40' diameter that potentially could move with the paladin, for 10 minutes if they can maintain concentration.
Yep. Smites turned into bonus action spells is a horrible, horrible nerf.
1. It takes away your paladin’s signature nova ability, turning paladins into a support class with some melee ability that is less helpful than a cleric.
2. It ruins your paladin’s action economy. How many things compete for your bonus action now?
3. It weakens smites overall when they do happen — counterspell and limited magical immunity will render your already nerfed paladin mostly irrelevant in key combats against many powerful creatures. Oh look, my bonus action once per combat round smite just got counterspelled again! And don’t even think about smiting Tiamat unless you are a cleric.
4. Some smite spells also compete with concentration, further harming your action economy.
5. Other changes are also pretty terrible. The paladin’s mount got a nerf — no shared spells, weaker than improved find steed at lvl 13. The capstones mostly got nerfed.
6. The Warlock ends up with a better nova smite in Eldritch Smite, plus gets three attacks now with thirsting blade, and a damage buff + leeching with lifedrinker. Want to play an old school paladin in one DND? Play a pact of the blade warlock celestial (devotion), fey (ancients), and fiend (oath breaker)…
Given the changes, if they stick, I don’t want to play one dnd paladins. I don’t really see what they’ve ’given’ one dnd paladins that makes them exciting or compelling vs a 5e paladin. The weapon mastery features are on other, better classes now as well. The warlock, fighter, ranger, monk, bard, cleric, and barbarian are all more appealing than this hollowed out shell of a once great class that Wizards left behind. And that’s a real bummer, because it takes away one of the really good flavors in the game.
Being able to use a smite spell once per turn and only on your turn is a nerf, yes, but it's not nearly as dire as you're making it out to be.
1. Yes, it reduces the paladin's ability to burn their resources in a single turn to do a bunch of damage. Saying this makes them a worse melee cleric is ridiculous. Paladin is a d10 hit die, heavy armor-wearing, martial weapon-wielding class with spellcasting. It now has weapon mastery, which can be stacked on top of all the smite spells. They can heal themselves or others with Lay on Hands, a resource independent of spell slots, and it's now a bonus action, so you can save yourself or your friends and use your action to do something else on the same turn. They still have Aura of Protection which did not get nerfed and is unquestionably one of the most powerful class features in the entire game. They are immune to the frightened condition by level 10, which lets them ignore one of the major weaknesses that melee martial characters have.
2. Smite spells, Lay on Hands, and some subclass features all use your bonus action now, where previously paladin had next to nothing to use its bonus action on outside of feats and a handful of spells. Don't you think it's asking a bit much to be able to do some or all of those things on one turn?
3. If your DM is counterspelling a smite spell instead of whatever your party's wizard is doing, I'd call that a win.
4. Two of the smite spells use concentration (Shining Smite and Banishing Smite). The rest that previously did require concentration no longer require it.
5. "Other changes?" Are we going to ignore that they got a brand new feature at level 9 that is an area-of-effect crowd control ability on a class that can already do so much? Also, Find Steed's casting time is an action now, down from 10 minutes. That means you can call forth that mount in combat. That mount now also has a unique ability determined by what creature type you decide it is.
6. Warlock doesn't have heavy armor, Lay on Hands, or Aura of Protection. Not everything is about dealing damage.
It's a bit hyperbolic to say that paladin is a "hollowed out shell of a once great class" just because smite spells now require your bonus action to activate. Paladin can and still does all the things paladin can do now, and it also got buffed overall. As someone who has played the 2014 version of the class and has playtested the latest version of it extensively, I'm satisfied with what we've seen thus far.
well said
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
stopping a paladin from blowing all their spell slots in one fight by telling them no after they have been use to it for so long makes no sense. it feels pointless and a weird change tbh
I would accept dropping Divine Smite (not the other smite spells) to a class ability triggered on First Hit costing a spell Slot as normal.
Level 3:
Play Test: Vengeance Paladin bonus action to get advantage. Action attack. Manage to Crit - Does 2D8+4 (With a +1 Long Sword)
MyraHelkey
Vs
5e: Vengeance Paladin bonus action to get advantage. Action attack. Manages to Crit - Does 4D8+ 4 (With Smite and +1 Long Sword)
---------------
Playtest Paladin: I have a level 15 ability to attack a target of my Enmity. I just cannot Smite with it.
MyraHelkey said it was OK for a DM to ruin my paladin's moment and fun so a Wizard can cast his spell. I do not see the upside.
I am no longer Imbued with the divine might of my god or Devotion to my oath. I cast a spell.
One of the problems for Wizards, not just with the paladin but for all of One DnD is it's going to have to compete with 5e...the most successful edition of DnD! So One DnD started off with a tough sell, no matter what changes were made. It's like Hollywood trying to do a remake of a movie that won an Academy Award and was exceptionally well done the first time! Even when the re-do is a decent movie, it still may not be as good as the original.
It will be interesting to see how many people just keep playing 5e, as is, even after One DnD comes out?
This is 5e. It's what 3.5 was to 3rd edition.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Not too impressed with this.
No paladin build was able to smite every encounter. At best, you could pull a nova or two at just the right time for dramatic effect and save the day. That is what heroes do.
What this does is take the choice away from the player on how to approach using their abilities.
Personally I typically used my smites for critical hits on tough opponents or to finish off a difficult encounter faster, in the bad guy has taken a lot of damage
Where I really used it was on incoming attacks of opportunities when it would make a difference.
Straight paladins are off the table. Now there is zero reason NOT to play a Paladin/Warlock hybrid class.
NOTE: Did they edit the UA 6 Druids and Paladins and I missed it? It says once per turn on a successful hit, and only in a turn you didn't cast a spell. That's pretty awful in that document, did they revise it to be a bonus action as well?
(Shield and Spear Dueling FTW)
3.5e at least had the decency to come out AFTER 3.0.
With 5e available, I see no reason adopt One. Hard pass.
I think one solution would be to require the use divines smite before the attack roll so there is a risk involved in smiting on everything. Although it feels terrible when you crit and didn’t proclaim smite. Also makes thematic sense imbue the weapon with divine energy before attacking.
that's not a fix, that's a legit nerf.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I for one will be sticking with 5e. It's a little more forgiving than the min maxing of 3.0e and 3.5e, but maintains the spirit for fun play.
When I play a spellcaster or a class that has resources, I want to decide how to use them, not be locked into a very specific play style, which is what the new smite does.
I enjoy using my spells, and have very rarely ever spammed smite unless it was to absolutely save the day or stop a tpk.
Does that always work? No. And that's why it wasn't broken.
Let it's no fun if you make it so there's no way to play other than a railroad track.
Totally agree