Interested in the gameplay and roleplaying potential of the "Hexadin" build, but I have some confusion on which drop-off point I should take.
At level one my character is a Human paladin with 15 9 14 14 9 16 ability scores and no feats. At level 5 I want him to be a 4 redemption palladin/ 1 hexblade warlock. Here I need to choose a feat. I'll likely only take one feat, so I want to make it count. The obvious choice is War Caster so I don't have to juggle my shield and sword, or should I take improved pact weapons I can use that as a focus and take something like the resilient feat (proficiency for constitution is very appealing) or some other perk like tough (for extra hit points).
Hopefully, if all goes well, my character will reach its full potential someday. This is where I wonder how many warlock levels I want to take. I know I want to take at least 2 levels and at most 5 levels of warlock. I want to make sure I get my useful oath of redemption upgrades and spells so at most I'll have 18 paladin levels and at least 15. So what do you think or what do you like? 2, 3,4, or 5 warlock levels and what feats do you recommend?
Instead of a feat, I’d take a long look at 2 points of cha. Beyond that, you could go pally5 for the extra attack, though that won’t stack with any extra attacks you might get from warlock. And pally 6 for the aura which is incredible. I’d consider that before you make the switch. As far as how many levels, it comes down to invocations. You won’t get any benefit from thirsting blade at warlock 5, and stopping at 4 would get you a feat, so there’s that yo consider. Also, work backwards. See what paladin abilities you’ll lose by taking levels in warlock, and decide if the trade is worth it. Assuming the campaign will even go to 20. Most stop in the 10-12ish range.
After looking it over, having 5 warlock levels won't be useful, so now I have 2 to 4 levels to put into hex blade warlock. at level 18 all my auras are now 30 which is nice. Specifically the Aura of the Guardian which will be good for my teammates. This is simply good.
Level 17 gets some nice spells. Holy weapons look particularly nice. I bet that would work well with some Hexblade levels. we do lose out on the aura increases but we get pact of the blade! Cool! But is it worth it?
Level 16 gets us ASI and some extra prepared spells. we can get the ASI from Warlock level 4, but you don't get an extra invocation or much else. Yeah, I'm not sure it's worth it unless I'm missing something.
Now that I think about it, I don't want 4 levels in warlock. That leaves us with 2 to 3 levels. I'll stick to two levels in Warlock but I could always increase it to 3 if I want. Pact of the blade is really cool but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
If you wanna go mostly Paladin for some weird reason, cap at 4 levels in warlock, and take pact of the blade.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
If you wanna go mostly Paladin for some weird reason, cap at 4 levels in warlock, and take pact of the blade.
I don't think I want to further warlock. After I spent time thinking about it, I'm content with either 2 or 3 levels in warlock. Now I just have to decide which one (2 or 3 levels) I want to take/go for.
Warlock 2 is a big bump. Invocations and a second spell slot on a short rest. But if you’re not doing much with warlock, I don’t know the third level gives you a lot.
For you, I’d really consider grasp of hadar for one of those invocations. Drags enemies closer to you so you can better melee them. For the second, agonizing blast is nice if you’re going to use EB a lot. But if not, maybe look at more utility stuff. Mask of many faces or misty visions can be really fun. Or fiendish vigor, though an extra 5-8 hp will drop off in its usefulness.
thanks! I'm definitely going to take agonizing blast as one of my invocations. It just seems really damn good. So far the second level already gives me plenty of stuff I want, I can forgo going a third level in Warlock. I am curious to see if the pact of the blade is worth it for the extra levels. If I just stop at level three in Warlock, what benefits could the pact of the blade give me as a paladin? On a surface level, I don't know how it (pact of the blade) could benefit me, and I can't think of many reasons other than it would be really damn cool to have.
Agonizing blast is good provided you are standing at range, casting eldritch blast. If you're not doing that often, it's not terribly useful.
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Yeah, I agree with crzyhawk, agonizing blast is great for a blaster warlock staying at range. You'll want to close in and melee them. Remember, you can't smite from range, and you can't smite with EB. Getting a couple extra points of damage every now and then is not a great use for an invocation.
Really, for a melee character, being able to cast false life on yourself at will is pretty big. As I said, the number of hp will drop off in usefulness, but then if you think about it in terms of starting every fight with what amounts to an extra level's worth of hp, it will add up.
You're not wrong. I LOVE false life on my warlock. That's 100% an invocation I'd have on a padlock.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
IMO you should take a Charisma ASI. I would get that to 20 before anything else.
Of the feats you mention, assuming you know the shield spell I like Warcaster by far over the others you mention. If you don't have the shield spell, then I don't like any of those you mention.
I would take only 2 Warlock levels. More than that hurts you because it slows your Paladin spell progression and makes your pact slots second level, making shield a more costly cast, using either a 2nd level slot or a slot that does not recharge on a short rest.
If you want more spells or higher level smite slots, instead of more Warlock levels, I would actually triple class into a Sorcerer, Bard or even Wizard.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Hex Warrior only works on one single weapon at a time, every other weapon is going to use strength or dexterity. So if you get disarmed or hit with heat metal or Fear or something you are not going to be able to use your Hex Warrior weapon. Now that doesn't happen a whole lot, but it does happen and when it does you are nearly useless if you are running around with a 10 strength.
Second if you have below a 15 Strength you have a movement penalty in Splint or Plate, so it a 2 penalty to your AC unless you want to give up movement. The points in AC alone are worth more than the extra hps from a higher Constitution.
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
I think people overvalue Constitution. Warcaster is the play here if you have the shield spell, that is going to keep you alive a lot more than the 40 extra hit points Tough will get you at 20th level or the 20 extra hit points from a Constitution ASI.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
You are giving up a ton to do this, especially in spell slots. A 6th level Paladin has 6 total spell slots, all 1st and 2nd level. At 18th level she has 14, half of them 3rd level and above and one at 5th level. A single casting of Destructive Wave (or likely a 5th level smite) is going to do more damage than Improved Pact weapon will do all day. IF you are going to do that many Warlock levels you really need Eldritch Smite to make your very few Paladin slots last longer.
You get Hexblade curse with 1 level of Warlock, no more are needed.
Improved Divine Smite is doing the same damage as lifedrinker when you consider crits and your additional spell slots to smite mean you outrun it by a mile.
Armor of Hexes uses your reaction, so it only works on a single attack. By the time you get it (16th level, not 14) most difficult enemies are getting 4 or so attacks when you consider legendary actions. It is useful, but shield is generally a lot more useful, and uses more resources if you take a lot of Warlock levels.
I too feel that people overvalue constitution. not being hit is more valuable than taking the hit better.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Hex Warrior only works on one single weapon at a time, every other weapon is going to use strength or dexterity. So if you get disarmed or hit with heat metal or Fear or something you are not going to be able to use your Hex Warrior weapon. Now that doesn't happen a whole lot, but it does happen and when it does you are nearly useless if you are running around with a 10 strength.
Second if you have below a 15 Strength you have a movement penalty in Splint or Plate, so it a 2 penalty to your AC unless you want to give up movement. The points in AC alone are worth more than the extra hps from a higher Constitution.
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
I think people overvalue Constitution. Warcaster is the play here if you have the shield spell, that is going to keep you alive a lot more than the 40 extra hit points Tough will get you at 20th level or the 20 extra hit points from a Constitution ASI.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
You are giving up a ton to do this, especially in spell slots. A 6th level Paladin has 6 total spell slots, all 1st and 2nd level. At 18th level she has 14, half of them 3rd level and above and one at 5th level. A single casting of Destructive Wave (or likely a 5th level smite) is going to do more damage than Improved Pact weapon will do all day. IF you are going to do that many Warlock levels you really need Eldritch Smite to make your very few Paladin slots last longer.
You get Hexblade curse with 1 level of Warlock, no more are needed.
Improved Divine Smite is doing the same damage as lifedrinker when you consider crits and your additional spell slots to smite mean you outrun it by a mile.
Armor of Hexes uses your reaction, so it only works on a single attack. By the time you get it (16th level, not 14) most difficult enemies are getting 4 or so attacks when you consider legendary actions. It is useful, but shield is generally a lot more useful, and uses more resources if you take a lot of Warlock levels.
Wow, thanks for the detailed response! I will be taking the shield spell. It looks to go to pass up. I think stopping at level 2 is the best bet. Maybe I'll look into putting a level into Bard, but I don't want to overcomplicate things. Having an extra level in Warlock for Pact of the Blade does seem nice, but I'd be giving up the level 18 aura improvements (assuming my character ever reaches that level.
Edit: You get false life as a spell, right? And I'll mostly be in melee combat, so I'll look into other invocations.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Hex Warrior only works on one single weapon at a time, every other weapon is going to use strength or dexterity. So if you get disarmed or hit with heat metal or Fear or something you are not going to be able to use your Hex Warrior weapon. Now that doesn't happen a whole lot, but it does happen and when it does you are nearly useless if you are running around with a 10 strength.
Second if you have below a 15 Strength you have a movement penalty in Splint or Plate, so it a 2 penalty to your AC unless you want to give up movement. The points in AC alone are worth more than the extra hps from a higher Constitution.
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
I think people overvalue Constitution. Warcaster is the play here if you have the shield spell, that is going to keep you alive a lot more than the 40 extra hit points Tough will get you at 20th level or the 20 extra hit points from a Constitution ASI.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
You are giving up a ton to do this, especially in spell slots. A 6th level Paladin has 6 total spell slots, all 1st and 2nd level. At 18th level she has 14, half of them 3rd level and above and one at 5th level. A single casting of Destructive Wave (or likely a 5th level smite) is going to do more damage than Improved Pact weapon will do all day. IF you are going to do that many Warlock levels you really need Eldritch Smite to make your very few Paladin slots last longer.
You get Hexblade curse with 1 level of Warlock, no more are needed.
Improved Divine Smite is doing the same damage as lifedrinker when you consider crits and your additional spell slots to smite mean you outrun it by a mile.
Armor of Hexes uses your reaction, so it only works on a single attack. By the time you get it (16th level, not 14) most difficult enemies are getting 4 or so attacks when you consider legendary actions. It is useful, but shield is generally a lot more useful, and uses more resources if you take a lot of Warlock levels.
Wow, thanks for the detailed response! I will be taking the shield spell. It looks to go to pass up. I think stopping at level 2 is the best bet. Maybe I'll look into putting a level into Bard, but I don't want to overcomplicate things. Having an extra level in Warlock for Pact of the Blade does seem nice, but I'd be giving up the level 18 aura improvements (assuming my character ever reaches that level.
Edit: You get false life as a spell, right? And I'll mostly be in melee combat, so I'll look into other invocations.
By false life, you mean the fiendish vigor invocation? Yes that is good, there are a lot of good invocations though, so it really depends on the table. Fiendish Vigor is certainly one I would consider at 2nd level. You can also look at getting Armor of Agathys for temp hit points, it is better but you would need to spend spell slots to cast that and those are slots you could probably otherwise use for smites. Of the two Fiendish Vigor is probably better on this build if you don't have a different Invocation you want to take.
You get two though and I would definitely get Agonizing Blast (for when you can't get into melee and need to make a Ranged attack) for the second.
You can go to 3rd level for a Pact, but I don't see a lot of value in pact of the blade here unless you don't expect to find a magic weapon or you find a magic weapon you want to use that would not be eligible for Hex Warrior without it. If I was getting a pact I personally would get Chain Pact, Investment of the Chain Master and a Sprite Familiar. That gives you a bonus action option to make your Sprite shoot arrows that poison enemies for a minute and use your Warlock save DC, occasionally enemies will fall asleep too. When you are using your bonus action for something else your familiar turns invisible, making the next time it attacks at advantage. The Sprite dies sometimes doing this, but since it is a ranged attack and she spends a lot of time invisible it is not that often. Another thing you can do is buy your sprite poison in addition to her poisoned arrows; get some Wyvern Toxin or if you can afford it Purple Worm Toxin. Then she uses her action when she is not shooting to put that on her arrows in addition to her own poison for a big damage boost.
Ah, thanks. 2 levels into warlock it is. I think that would be the best bet. For invocations, I was going to take an agonizing blast (because I hear it's reeeeeeally good), and devils sight because I'm playing as a human, but I'll look into other options for invocations. Thanks for the help!
RE agonizing blast....how do you plan to play your warlock. As I said earlier, it's good only if you stand in the back and eldritch blast. Don't let people tell you it's good for all situations. It is not. If you're going to be in melee, agonizing blast is a bad pick. It literally, only adds your charisma modifier to your eldritch blast bolts. It turns EB into a reloadable, heavy crossbow. You won't be able to smite with it.
if you're going to be hitting things in the face with a weapon, agonizing blast is a very bad pick for an invocation because you're never going to use it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
That makes sense. In that case, I'll likely be taking some more utility-focused or defense-focused invocations. Devil's sight is very appealing to me as I lack dark vision, and fiendish vigor looks good. So I think those are the two invocations I will take.
My Hexadin is on a very similar track as yours will be. He is currently Lv8 with 6 level in Paladin (Oathbreaker, story related, to serve Kelemvor even better as with Vengeance) and only then 2 in Hexblade Warlock. The Aura as defense is just to strong when your team needs you to keep on holding he frontline and not fall to a Lv1 Command spell... :,-D
Your choice of invocations is the same as mine and it was after a long research period:
- As others said, Agonizing Blast doesn't do anything for a melee swoard & board character. Same with most other EB upgrades, as EB should be needed very rarely anyways.
- Devil's Sight was not needed for your reason as a human, but since me and the other (full) Warlock in the group could switch to crowd control with the Darkness spell, which the Oathbreaker gave me automatically (otherwise Lv3 Warlock could do that for you). This came up only once, as it can be very bad for every other 3 party members, but when needed, it's a life saver!!!
- Fiedish Vigor was planned as a placeholder until I get more Warlock levels. But I honestly think after spending just this current level 8 with it, that starting a fight with 8 temporary HP soaks up so much damage in the long run (as you get hit with your AC + Shield spell so much less anyways) that I don't wanna miss it anymore! My DM agreed luckily, that a character casting a spell over and over again gets so familiar with it, that he just knows, when the maximum support would be achieved aka. the 8 tHP rolled. Thus after 1min out of combat (passive recasting it most of the time) I get the 8 tHP automatically.
One more reminder tho: Don't forget that a campaign isn't just theorycrafting and min-maxing. As I had to learn, sometimes either roleplay or things like the DMs choice of Monsters influence strongly what you might need. I had to intensely upgrade my defensive capabilities to keep up, and thus never switched to a Greatsword but instead needed a reaction spell for defense. We just didn't roll useful enough defensive loot. But your DM might go way more into roleplay-fight and at the point of choosing your way, your character might feel more like a Sorcadin. Who knows. Just keep an open mind and feel free to explore your character. The "unoptimized way" might come out as the more interesting experience and more fun overall.
My Hexadin is on a very similar track as yours will be. He is currently Lv8 with 6 level in Paladin (Oathbreaker, story related, to serve Kelemvor even better as with Vengeance) and only then 2 in Hexblade Warlock. The Aura as defense is just to strong when your team needs you to keep on holding he frontline and not fall to a Lv1 Command spell... :,-D
Your choice of invocations is the same as mine and it was after a long research period:
- As others said, Agonizing Blast doesn't do anything for a melee swoard & board character. Same with most other EB upgrades, as EB should be needed very rarely anyways.
- Devil's Sight was not needed for your reason as a human, but since me and the other (full) Warlock in the group could switch to crowd control with the Darkness spell, which the Oathbreaker gave me automatically (otherwise Lv3 Warlock could do that for you). This came up only once, as it can be very bad for every other 3 party members, but when needed, it's a life saver!!!
- Fiedish Vigor was planned as a placeholder until I get more Warlock levels. But I honestly think after spending just this current level 8 with it, that starting a fight with 8 temporary HP soaks up so much damage in the long run (as you get hit with your AC + Shield spell so much less anyways) that I don't wanna miss it anymore! My DM agreed luckily, that a character casting a spell over and over again gets so familiar with it, that he just knows, when the maximum support would be achieved aka. the 8 tHP rolled. Thus after 1min out of combat (passive recasting it most of the time) I get the 8 tHP automatically.
One more reminder tho: Don't forget that a campaign isn't just theorycrafting and min-maxing. As I had to learn, sometimes either roleplay or things like the DMs choice of Monsters influence strongly what you might need. I had to intensely upgrade my defensive capabilities to keep up, and thus never switched to a Greatsword but instead needed a reaction spell for defense. We just didn't roll useful enough defensive loot. But your DM might go way more into roleplay-fight and at the point of choosing your way, your character might feel more like a Sorcadin. Who knows. Just keep an open mind and feel free to explore your character. The "unoptimized way" might come out as the more interesting experience and more fun overall.
That's the reason I went for a hexadin paladin anyway. I wanted to put some points into my other abilities rather than just strength, constitution, and charisma and becoming a total dunce (in roleplaying, not irl or anything). I wanted to put some points into intelligence, but I was spread a little thin. Thankfully all I needed was 15 strength for plate armor and then I could focus on charisma. Plus the standard human (while not being as cool as the Vhuman) allowed me to spread things out some more to my liking. I'm really proud of the character I created!
And by the way, thanks for the advice. I very much appreciate it.
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Interested in the gameplay and roleplaying potential of the "Hexadin" build, but I have some confusion on which drop-off point I should take.
At level one my character is a Human paladin with 15 9 14 14 9 16 ability scores and no feats. At level 5 I want him to be a 4 redemption palladin/ 1 hexblade warlock. Here I need to choose a feat. I'll likely only take one feat, so I want to make it count. The obvious choice is War Caster so I don't have to juggle my shield and sword, or should I take improved pact weapons I can use that as a focus and take something like the resilient feat (proficiency for constitution is very appealing) or some other perk like tough (for extra hit points).
Hopefully, if all goes well, my character will reach its full potential someday. This is where I wonder how many warlock levels I want to take. I know I want to take at least 2 levels and at most 5 levels of warlock. I want to make sure I get my useful oath of redemption upgrades and spells so at most I'll have 18 paladin levels and at least 15. So what do you think or what do you like? 2, 3,4, or 5 warlock levels and what feats do you recommend?
Instead of a feat, I’d take a long look at 2 points of cha.
Beyond that, you could go pally5 for the extra attack, though that won’t stack with any extra attacks you might get from warlock. And pally 6 for the aura which is incredible. I’d consider that before you make the switch.
As far as how many levels, it comes down to invocations. You won’t get any benefit from thirsting blade at warlock 5, and stopping at 4 would get you a feat, so there’s that yo consider.
Also, work backwards. See what paladin abilities you’ll lose by taking levels in warlock, and decide if the trade is worth it. Assuming the campaign will even go to 20. Most stop in the 10-12ish range.
After looking it over, having 5 warlock levels won't be useful, so now I have 2 to 4 levels to put into hex blade warlock. at level 18 all my auras are now 30 which is nice. Specifically the Aura of the Guardian which will be good for my teammates. This is simply good.
Level 17 gets some nice spells. Holy weapons look particularly nice. I bet that would work well with some Hexblade levels. we do lose out on the aura increases but we get pact of the blade! Cool! But is it worth it?
Level 16 gets us ASI and some extra prepared spells. we can get the ASI from Warlock level 4, but you don't get an extra invocation or much else. Yeah, I'm not sure it's worth it unless I'm missing something.
Now that I think about it, I don't want 4 levels in warlock. That leaves us with 2 to 3 levels. I'll stick to two levels in Warlock but I could always increase it to 3 if I want. Pact of the blade is really cool but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
Ok before I start, why is your strength 15? As a hexblade you can attack with charisma, instead of dexterity or strength. I’d put those points into constitution and wisdom (because you have no wisdom).
Now, I would say max out your charisma first, and then take the tough feat. All of a sudden, you don’t need to upgrade you constitution that high now. Just put 2 more ASI on Constitution. And then for the last feat, you wanna take the Warcaster and the Savage Attacker feat, so now you have advantage on your damage rolls.
As for the levelling, I would actually take 6 levels in Paladin, and 14 in warlock. This may surprise you, but it actually makes the build more tanky. Let me explain… At 6 levels in Paladin, you get aura of protection, which grants you a boost to saving throws, which is nice. Then with warlock, you get hexblade’s curse, which OP when multiclassed. Take pact of the blade at level 3, as well as lifedrinker, relentless hex, improved pact weapon, devils sight, and ghostly gaze. The others are your choice. Then you get a bunch of cool features, but at level 14, you get the feature ‘armour of hexes’. Basically if a creature that is under the effects of your hexblade’s curse hits you with a melee attack, even if it crits, you can completely negate the damage.
If you wanna go mostly Paladin for some weird reason, cap at 4 levels in warlock, and take pact of the blade.
DM: “Who’s your patron?”
Warlock: “Ummm”
DM: “Hurry Up”
Warlock: “yOu”
*All other players look at each other with utter fear*
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I don't think I want to further warlock. After I spent time thinking about it, I'm content with either 2 or 3 levels in warlock. Now I just have to decide which one (2 or 3 levels) I want to take/go for.
Warlock 2 is a big bump. Invocations and a second spell slot on a short rest. But if you’re not doing much with warlock, I don’t know the third level gives you a lot.
For you, I’d really consider grasp of hadar for one of those invocations. Drags enemies closer to you so you can better melee them. For the second, agonizing blast is nice if you’re going to use EB a lot. But if not, maybe look at more utility stuff. Mask of many faces or misty visions can be really fun. Or fiendish vigor, though an extra 5-8 hp will drop off in its usefulness.
thanks! I'm definitely going to take agonizing blast as one of my invocations. It just seems really damn good. So far the second level already gives me plenty of stuff I want, I can forgo going a third level in Warlock. I am curious to see if the pact of the blade is worth it for the extra levels. If I just stop at level three in Warlock, what benefits could the pact of the blade give me as a paladin? On a surface level, I don't know how it (pact of the blade) could benefit me, and I can't think of many reasons other than it would be really damn cool to have.
Agonizing blast is good provided you are standing at range, casting eldritch blast. If you're not doing that often, it's not terribly useful.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, I agree with crzyhawk, agonizing blast is great for a blaster warlock staying at range. You'll want to close in and melee them. Remember, you can't smite from range, and you can't smite with EB. Getting a couple extra points of damage every now and then is not a great use for an invocation.
Really, for a melee character, being able to cast false life on yourself at will is pretty big. As I said, the number of hp will drop off in usefulness, but then if you think about it in terms of starting every fight with what amounts to an extra level's worth of hp, it will add up.
You're not wrong. I LOVE false life on my warlock. That's 100% an invocation I'd have on a padlock.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
IMO you should take a Charisma ASI. I would get that to 20 before anything else.
Of the feats you mention, assuming you know the shield spell I like Warcaster by far over the others you mention. If you don't have the shield spell, then I don't like any of those you mention.
I would take only 2 Warlock levels. More than that hurts you because it slows your Paladin spell progression and makes your pact slots second level, making shield a more costly cast, using either a 2nd level slot or a slot that does not recharge on a short rest.
If you want more spells or higher level smite slots, instead of more Warlock levels, I would actually triple class into a Sorcerer, Bard or even Wizard.
Hex Warrior only works on one single weapon at a time, every other weapon is going to use strength or dexterity. So if you get disarmed or hit with heat metal or Fear or something you are not going to be able to use your Hex Warrior weapon. Now that doesn't happen a whole lot, but it does happen and when it does you are nearly useless if you are running around with a 10 strength.
Second if you have below a 15 Strength you have a movement penalty in Splint or Plate, so it a 2 penalty to your AC unless you want to give up movement. The points in AC alone are worth more than the extra hps from a higher Constitution.
I think people overvalue Constitution. Warcaster is the play here if you have the shield spell, that is going to keep you alive a lot more than the 40 extra hit points Tough will get you at 20th level or the 20 extra hit points from a Constitution ASI.
You are giving up a ton to do this, especially in spell slots. A 6th level Paladin has 6 total spell slots, all 1st and 2nd level. At 18th level she has 14, half of them 3rd level and above and one at 5th level. A single casting of Destructive Wave (or likely a 5th level smite) is going to do more damage than Improved Pact weapon will do all day. IF you are going to do that many Warlock levels you really need Eldritch Smite to make your very few Paladin slots last longer.
You get Hexblade curse with 1 level of Warlock, no more are needed.
Improved Divine Smite is doing the same damage as lifedrinker when you consider crits and your additional spell slots to smite mean you outrun it by a mile.
Armor of Hexes uses your reaction, so it only works on a single attack. By the time you get it (16th level, not 14) most difficult enemies are getting 4 or so attacks when you consider legendary actions. It is useful, but shield is generally a lot more useful, and uses more resources if you take a lot of Warlock levels.
I too feel that people overvalue constitution. not being hit is more valuable than taking the hit better.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Wow, thanks for the detailed response! I will be taking the shield spell. It looks to go to pass up. I think stopping at level 2 is the best bet. Maybe I'll look into putting a level into Bard, but I don't want to overcomplicate things. Having an extra level in Warlock for Pact of the Blade does seem nice, but I'd be giving up the level 18 aura improvements (assuming my character ever reaches that level.
Edit: You get false life as a spell, right? And I'll mostly be in melee combat, so I'll look into other invocations.
By false life, you mean the fiendish vigor invocation? Yes that is good, there are a lot of good invocations though, so it really depends on the table. Fiendish Vigor is certainly one I would consider at 2nd level. You can also look at getting Armor of Agathys for temp hit points, it is better but you would need to spend spell slots to cast that and those are slots you could probably otherwise use for smites. Of the two Fiendish Vigor is probably better on this build if you don't have a different Invocation you want to take.
You get two though and I would definitely get Agonizing Blast (for when you can't get into melee and need to make a Ranged attack) for the second.
You can go to 3rd level for a Pact, but I don't see a lot of value in pact of the blade here unless you don't expect to find a magic weapon or you find a magic weapon you want to use that would not be eligible for Hex Warrior without it. If I was getting a pact I personally would get Chain Pact, Investment of the Chain Master and a Sprite Familiar. That gives you a bonus action option to make your Sprite shoot arrows that poison enemies for a minute and use your Warlock save DC, occasionally enemies will fall asleep too. When you are using your bonus action for something else your familiar turns invisible, making the next time it attacks at advantage. The Sprite dies sometimes doing this, but since it is a ranged attack and she spends a lot of time invisible it is not that often. Another thing you can do is buy your sprite poison in addition to her poisoned arrows; get some Wyvern Toxin or if you can afford it Purple Worm Toxin. Then she uses her action when she is not shooting to put that on her arrows in addition to her own poison for a big damage boost.
Ah, thanks. 2 levels into warlock it is. I think that would be the best bet. For invocations, I was going to take an agonizing blast (because I hear it's reeeeeeally good), and devils sight because I'm playing as a human, but I'll look into other options for invocations. Thanks for the help!
RE agonizing blast....how do you plan to play your warlock. As I said earlier, it's good only if you stand in the back and eldritch blast. Don't let people tell you it's good for all situations. It is not. If you're going to be in melee, agonizing blast is a bad pick. It literally, only adds your charisma modifier to your eldritch blast bolts. It turns EB into a reloadable, heavy crossbow. You won't be able to smite with it.
if you're going to be hitting things in the face with a weapon, agonizing blast is a very bad pick for an invocation because you're never going to use it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That makes sense. In that case, I'll likely be taking some more utility-focused or defense-focused invocations. Devil's sight is very appealing to me as I lack dark vision, and fiendish vigor looks good. So I think those are the two invocations I will take.
My Hexadin is on a very similar track as yours will be. He is currently Lv8 with 6 level in Paladin (Oathbreaker, story related, to serve Kelemvor even better as with Vengeance) and only then 2 in Hexblade Warlock. The Aura as defense is just to strong when your team needs you to keep on holding he frontline and not fall to a Lv1 Command spell... :,-D
Your choice of invocations is the same as mine and it was after a long research period:
- As others said, Agonizing Blast doesn't do anything for a melee swoard & board character. Same with most other EB upgrades, as EB should be needed very rarely anyways.
- Devil's Sight was not needed for your reason as a human, but since me and the other (full) Warlock in the group could switch to crowd control with the Darkness spell, which the Oathbreaker gave me automatically (otherwise Lv3 Warlock could do that for you). This came up only once, as it can be very bad for every other 3 party members, but when needed, it's a life saver!!!
- Fiedish Vigor was planned as a placeholder until I get more Warlock levels. But I honestly think after spending just this current level 8 with it, that starting a fight with 8 temporary HP soaks up so much damage in the long run (as you get hit with your AC + Shield spell so much less anyways) that I don't wanna miss it anymore! My DM agreed luckily, that a character casting a spell over and over again gets so familiar with it, that he just knows, when the maximum support would be achieved aka. the 8 tHP rolled. Thus after 1min out of combat (passive recasting it most of the time) I get the 8 tHP automatically.
One more reminder tho: Don't forget that a campaign isn't just theorycrafting and min-maxing. As I had to learn, sometimes either roleplay or things like the DMs choice of Monsters influence strongly what you might need. I had to intensely upgrade my defensive capabilities to keep up, and thus never switched to a Greatsword but instead needed a reaction spell for defense. We just didn't roll useful enough defensive loot. But your DM might go way more into roleplay-fight and at the point of choosing your way, your character might feel more like a Sorcadin. Who knows. Just keep an open mind and feel free to explore your character. The "unoptimized way" might come out as the more interesting experience and more fun overall.
That's the reason I went for a hexadin paladin anyway. I wanted to put some points into my other abilities rather than just strength, constitution, and charisma and becoming a total dunce (in roleplaying, not irl or anything). I wanted to put some points into intelligence, but I was spread a little thin. Thankfully all I needed was 15 strength for plate armor and then I could focus on charisma. Plus the standard human (while not being as cool as the Vhuman) allowed me to spread things out some more to my liking. I'm really proud of the character I created!
And by the way, thanks for the advice. I very much appreciate it.