Quick question, in the 5.5e version of the game, you roll for the bonus attack of a off-hand weapon, the dual weilder feat specific says so.
Now, the smite for a paladin, they all say the same thing. You hit THEN you can use a bonus action to use a smite.
Here's the question.
Does that smite require an attack roll to hit? There is no rule saying it is an auto hit, but the wording from dual willder says you make an attack roll with a bonus action. Since the smites are bonus actions, the require attack rolls as well, at least that is what im seeing.
IF there is somewhere that clearly explains this, i would like a link or something :P
You don't have to roll to hit with smite, you just have to hit with a standard attack. This thread is most likely about Divine Smite, so let's dive into the exact text of that spell. Divine Smite activates on a bonus action "Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike". The description of the spell states "The target takes an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is a Fiend or an Undead." Neither of these statements require any sort of dice roll outside of dealing damage. This means that as soon as you hit with a melee weapon or an unarmed strike, you can deal an extra 2d8 damage with your bonus action. The text of Divine Smite is very explicit in that it allows you to simply add damage to an attack that you hit with. Nothing in it states you need to do an additional roll to try and activate it or hit with it.
If you're looking at the other smite spells, they generally all work a little different from Divine Smite but still don't require an additional attack roll. You activate these spells with a bonus action, then they trigger their effect the next time you hit with an attack. Some of them have require a saving throw from your target, but none of them require an additional attack roll from you to apply their effects. They just happen when you hit with an attack.
Dual Wielder and Two Weapon Fighting are completely different features and have nothing to do with the rules of a divine smite. Divine smite is not an off-hand attack. It is additional damage applied as part of the attack that triggers it.
All of the Paladin smite spells now more or less work the same. When you hit with an attack, you expend your bonus action to apply the smite to that attack. The smite spell automatically hits, and sometimes triggers a saving throw to cause additional effects, like in the case of Wrathful Smite, or as in the case of Shining Smite, the extra effect simply happens no matter what.
The simple way to think about smites is that after landing an attack, the smite spell augments the attack that already hit and as such it does not require an additional attack rolls, it is not a separate instance of an attack like light property bonus action attack, the dual wielder bonus action attack or using haste to perform an additional attack. Instead smite is more like a rogue's sneak attack, where it is part of the attack that activates it.
Smites don't just auto-hit either, if applied to an attack that critical hits, smites auto-critical, much like rogue's sneak attack does.
The key is to look at the casting time. Take Divine Smite as an example.
Casting Time - 1 bonus action*
*Which you take immediately after hitting with a Melee weapon or Unarmed Strike
Nowhere in the spells description does it say anything about making an attack roll of any kind. It simply says you cast the spell right after hitting, and the target takes the radiant damage. No saving throw or attack roll.
There's a general principle in D&D rules that spells do what they say they do, and they don't do anything else. If the spell doesn't say that you make an attack roll, you don't make an attack roll.
The 2014 versions of smite spells didn't call for a second attack roll either; they essentially just had you cast the spell and make the attack in a different order.
If you hit with an attack, you can now cast Divine Smite (and any of its brethren) using your Bonus Action.
And because of this, if you use the Bonus Action attack granted by the Dual Wielder Feat or the Light property (ignoring Nick that doesnt use a bonus action) and hit, you can't also smite.
Another thing to consider is that the Smite spells specifically say that they cause the original attack to deal "extra damage". This is why you also double the damage from your smite if your original attack critically hits. If the smite spells were separate attacks that you used on your bonus action, you would not get that double damage on a critical hit.
This is less specific about a paladin and more on spell use/wording.
If at level 2: I have 2 weapons, one in each hand. I use Weapon L in an attack and Weapon R as a bonus action. (correct for 2 weapon fighting?)
If weapon L hits and I smite per the bonus action, can I still use weapon R?
If weapon L misses, but weapon R hits, can I still use Smite?
Under the 2024 rules, no, you can’t do either of those things, because both the smite and the second attack use a bonus action, and you only have one bonus action per turn.
This is less specific about a paladin and more on spell use/wording.
If at level 2: I have 2 weapons, one in each hand. I use Weapon L in an attack and Weapon R as a bonus action. (correct for 2 weapon fighting?)
If weapon L hits and I smite per the bonus action, can I still use weapon R?
If weapon L misses, but weapon R hits, can I still use Smite?
The only way to benefit from having two Light weapons and still be able to use a smite spell is to make Weapon R a weapon with the Nick mastery. That would make both attacks part of the same Attack action, and thus allow you to use a smite spell on either of the attacks.
This is less specific about a paladin and more on spell use/wording.
If at level 2: I have 2 weapons, one in each hand. I use Weapon L in an attack and Weapon R as a bonus action. (correct for 2 weapon fighting?)
If weapon L hits and I smite per the bonus action, can I still use weapon R?
If weapon L misses, but weapon R hits, can I still use Smite?
As per Sequilonis' answer, Paladins get Weapon Mastery and the Weapon Mastery Nick would enable being able to take two attacks and smite, as the off hand (in this case Weapon R) would no longer cost a bonus action but nick does require both weapons to be light weapons.
Then if you picked up the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, you can not smite and benefit from Dual Wielder. However if you do not smite, you can perform an attack with the main weapon (L), use nick to perform an attack with the off-hand weapon (R) and then use a bonus action to perform a 3rd attack with either weapon. At level 5 you then get Extra attack for 3 attacks+smite or 4 attacks. The main issue with these builds is a lack of scaling but as Paladin gets Divine Favor, Radiant Strikes, Spirit Shroud & Holy Weapon, it is possible to keep it viable into the late game as a paladin, but you will around mid game (level 9~) fall behind some Polearm builds.
Quick question, in the 5.5e version of the game, you roll for the bonus attack of a off-hand weapon, the dual weilder feat specific says so.
Now, the smite for a paladin, they all say the same thing. You hit THEN you can use a bonus action to use a smite.
Here's the question.
Does that smite require an attack roll to hit? There is no rule saying it is an auto hit, but the wording from dual willder says you make an attack roll with a bonus action. Since the smites are bonus actions, the require attack rolls as well, at least that is what im seeing.
IF there is somewhere that clearly explains this, i would like a link or something :P
You don't have to roll to hit with smite, you just have to hit with a standard attack. This thread is most likely about Divine Smite, so let's dive into the exact text of that spell.
Divine Smite activates on a bonus action "Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike". The description of the spell states "The target takes an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is a Fiend or an Undead."
Neither of these statements require any sort of dice roll outside of dealing damage. This means that as soon as you hit with a melee weapon or an unarmed strike, you can deal an extra 2d8 damage with your bonus action.
The text of Divine Smite is very explicit in that it allows you to simply add damage to an attack that you hit with. Nothing in it states you need to do an additional roll to try and activate it or hit with it.
If you're looking at the other smite spells, they generally all work a little different from Divine Smite but still don't require an additional attack roll. You activate these spells with a bonus action, then they trigger their effect the next time you hit with an attack. Some of them have require a saving throw from your target, but none of them require an additional attack roll from you to apply their effects. They just happen when you hit with an attack.
Dual Wielder and Two Weapon Fighting are completely different features and have nothing to do with the rules of a divine smite.
Divine smite is not an off-hand attack. It is additional damage applied as part of the attack that triggers it.
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All of the Paladin smite spells now more or less work the same. When you hit with an attack, you expend your bonus action to apply the smite to that attack. The smite spell automatically hits, and sometimes triggers a saving throw to cause additional effects, like in the case of Wrathful Smite, or as in the case of Shining Smite, the extra effect simply happens no matter what.
The simple way to think about smites is that after landing an attack, the smite spell augments the attack that already hit and as such it does not require an additional attack rolls, it is not a separate instance of an attack like light property bonus action attack, the dual wielder bonus action attack or using haste to perform an additional attack. Instead smite is more like a rogue's sneak attack, where it is part of the attack that activates it.
Smites don't just auto-hit either, if applied to an attack that critical hits, smites auto-critical, much like rogue's sneak attack does.
why doesnt smite just say its an autohit?
yeah, i dont just get why its worded different than in 5e where it clearly states what it does
then it should be worded as such :I
The key is to look at the casting time. Take Divine Smite as an example.
Casting Time - 1 bonus action*
*Which you take immediately after hitting with a Melee weapon or Unarmed Strike
Nowhere in the spells description does it say anything about making an attack roll of any kind. It simply says you cast the spell right after hitting, and the target takes the radiant damage. No saving throw or attack roll.
There's a general principle in D&D rules that spells do what they say they do, and they don't do anything else. If the spell doesn't say that you make an attack roll, you don't make an attack roll.
The 2014 versions of smite spells didn't call for a second attack roll either; they essentially just had you cast the spell and make the attack in a different order.
pronouns: he/she/they
Exactly what the others have said.
If you hit with an attack, you can now cast Divine Smite (and any of its brethren) using your Bonus Action.
And because of this, if you use the Bonus Action attack granted by the Dual Wielder Feat or the Light property (ignoring Nick that doesnt use a bonus action) and hit, you can't also smite.
Another thing to consider is that the Smite spells specifically say that they cause the original attack to deal "extra damage". This is why you also double the damage from your smite if your original attack critically hits. If the smite spells were separate attacks that you used on your bonus action, you would not get that double damage on a critical hit.
This is less specific about a paladin and more on spell use/wording.
If at level 2: I have 2 weapons, one in each hand. I use Weapon L in an attack and Weapon R as a bonus action. (correct for 2 weapon fighting?)
If weapon L hits and I smite per the bonus action, can I still use weapon R?
If weapon L misses, but weapon R hits, can I still use Smite?
Under the 2024 rules, no, you can’t do either of those things, because both the smite and the second attack use a bonus action, and you only have one bonus action per turn.
pronouns: he/she/they
The only way to benefit from having two Light weapons and still be able to use a smite spell is to make Weapon R a weapon with the Nick mastery. That would make both attacks part of the same Attack action, and thus allow you to use a smite spell on either of the attacks.
As per Sequilonis' answer, Paladins get Weapon Mastery and the Weapon Mastery Nick would enable being able to take two attacks and smite, as the off hand (in this case Weapon R) would no longer cost a bonus action but nick does require both weapons to be light weapons.
Then if you picked up the Dual Wielder Feat at level 4, you can not smite and benefit from Dual Wielder. However if you do not smite, you can perform an attack with the main weapon (L), use nick to perform an attack with the off-hand weapon (R) and then use a bonus action to perform a 3rd attack with either weapon. At level 5 you then get Extra attack for 3 attacks+smite or 4 attacks. The main issue with these builds is a lack of scaling but as Paladin gets Divine Favor, Radiant Strikes, Spirit Shroud & Holy Weapon, it is possible to keep it viable into the late game as a paladin, but you will around mid game (level 9~) fall behind some Polearm builds.
To follow up:
Weapon L (vex) is the attack action.
Weapon R (nick) is bonus action,
if Weapon L hits and weapon R misses then no smite
if Weapon L misses and weapon R hits then yes to use smite
========
if both weapons have (nick), then as long as one weapon hits I can smite?
No, weapon R would be part of the attack action due to nick. Therefore, in both of the cases you can smite.