You can use smite spells on thrown attacks with melee weapons, if your goal is to be more of a ranged combat specialist and you don't care as much about it being literal archery.
Yeah. While that's true RAW, I don't like it from a flavor perspective.
To me, there's really no flavor justification for allowing thrown weapons and disallowing ranged weapons. I think it really should just be melee attacks (including reach weapons, of course). But that's just my interpretation of smites.
Adding (damage) riders to ranged attacks just seems like it's more of a ranger thing than a paladin thing.
Fair point. It does seem like the image they're generally going for with the Paladin class is a classic "knight in shining armor" charging valiantly into battle, and ranged attacks of any kind don't really fit with that.
Maybe there's room for a Paladin subclass with abilities focused on ranged combat — maybe from the air, like the Winged Sentinel from Daggerheart.
Paladins have access to all martial weapons so you can use a bow if you want to use a bow. No, you can't Smite, but that's not the only thing Paladins have spell slots for either.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If you want to be ranged and not be a ranger, I'd just say be a fighter. Fighter has subclasses for ranged combat and Paladin doesn't nor do most Paladin features and spells work well with ranged combat. Sure smites work with thrown weapons (and I agree with Sabin76 that it should be limited to melee only even if that isn't currently RAW).
Overall what is the hope here for a Paladin with a bow? Yes Dex-based paladin can be done but it has multiple flaws and the upsides often aren't worth it in the long run and it doesn't really explain what the goal of it is, rather paladin with bow seems to be the goal and that isn't how a character should be made/designed. Really it should be a case of getting a character concept and then figuring out which class/archetype fits that the best and if that is a character with a bow, that is probably A Ranger, A Fighter or a Rogue. The fact it is a class based game, means choosing a class should be an impactful choice and for Paladin that should mean no ranged weapon attacks.
It depends on what you're looking for in your archer. Paladin is a better pick than ranger in certain instances. You just have to accept that you're not going to get to use all your features, all the time. fortunately, MOST paladin features use spell slots, so you just use those spell slots on other things that you want to do.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It depends on what you're looking for in your archer. Paladin is a better pick than ranger in certain instances. You just have to accept that you're not going to get to use all your features, all the time. fortunately, MOST paladin features use spell slots, so you just use those spell slots on other things that you want to do.
I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm asking what is the actual goal? Why do people want to play paladin as an archer.
If one class can do literally everything then there is no point in other classes and realistically the things Paladin shouldn't be able to do is ranged attacks which should be balanced by stronger melee performance, being inline with Barbarian or Strength based Fighter. Paladin can already heal, tank, support & does well in social encounters.
Currently if you go ranged, you need to go Dex based and at that point you're losing access to heavy armor, potentially multiclassing (since you still need STR & CHA 13) and may lose access to melee heavy weapons too, so there is a lot of trade off that makes DEX based just not as worthwhile overall.
If you want Paladin to be viable at range, it's no secret that you can just multiclass into Warlock to get Eldritch Blast, Agonising Blast and the Hex spell which will generally speaking always do far more damage than a Paladin with a bow will.
If we want to be clear on the issue, Paladin loses access to more than just smites, for subclasses in the PHB...
Ancients
- the only subclass with no real downsides, technically nature's wrath but then you just use it as a way to help back liners get away from creatures that get to the back lines, so still viable.
+ you get ensnaring strike at least.
Devotion
- Sacred Weapon is limited to melee weapons
- Smite of Protection requires using Divine Smite
Glory
- Inspiring Smite requires using Divine Smite
Vengeance
- Vow of Enmity's activation has a 30 foot range, the same range as a Javelin, so just use Javelins since you basically need to be hanging around that range anyway.
- Relentless Avenger is limited to opportunity attacks (melee)
- Soul of Vengeance is limited to performing melee attacks
Then the worst thing of all which is just Paladin base class, you lose Radiant Strikes, which are specifically limited to melee weapon or unarmed attacks.
and if we get into spells, it's really a question of what other spells?
1st level Divine Favor and Bless
2nd level Prayer of Healing (once/day) and Warding Bond
3rd level... Aura of Vitality? Elemental Weapon? Crusader's Mantle? (why not just cast bless...)
4th level...... Death Ward maybe? Aura of Purity if it comes up?
5th level Summon Celestial
So yes, there are alternatives but let's not pretend that those alternatives are actually that good. If you got to other books, you can get Holy Weapon from XgtE for 5th level too but overall it's a huge DPS loss, you're more going into a support build that has a bow rather than an archer build. If you want to be a support build then you can just multiclass into Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock too to get access to more support related spells or spellcasting power.
Ultimately you can play whatever you want to play, if you want to play a paladin with a bow you can do that but I'm asking, why do people feel the need to do it? What is the ultimate purpose in that, that you're willing to give up so much of Paladin's features and spells to achieve it? Instead of just playing a Ranger, a Fighter or a Rogue which don't suffer from these types of issues?
As for Ranger, it just has a lot of issues that need resolving, that I think is an entirely separate discussion but if we are talking alternatives to Ranger then Dex based Fighter and Rogue already exist and in fact the one way you can still keep Ranger feeling good is multiclassing Ranger into Rogue after level ~6.
I'd play paladin over ranger because I like the spells better. I tend to prefer Divine Favor over Hunter's Mark because it's no fuss, no shifting, etc. I like bless very much, and unlike Faerie Fire from the ranger it requires no saving throws to stick. It just works. I like being able to keep my aura of protection in the back, helping the wizard maintain his concentration. I like keeping my concentration spells in the back where I have less chance to lose my concentration. Heck even summoning a packhorse is useful when you get to do it.
Dex based fighters do not have any of the features I just talked about, nor do rogues. And frankly, I just generally tend to not care for rogues.
You're looking at this from the point of being an archer first, which is fine,and I'd agree, that fighters and rogues likely make superior archers from an archery stand point.
I tend to like the paladin package a lot, and don't believe that being unable to use my smites isn't reason enough to not play a paladin archer when it does come with a lot of other goodies I like. Paladin makes a good enough archer and brings a lot of party support that I enjoy using that the other characters can't match.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I can get Bless > Faerie Fire and Divine Favor over hunter's mark. Aura of Protection is of course a good feature. What I don't get is why go Dex and focus on Bow past that.
I did address being a support but again, I don't think if your goal is going for being a support that Archery is the way to go. Paladin does get access to things like Javelins or can multiclass to get Eldritch Blast which generally just function better than using a bow, alternatively you can go for magic initiative to get a cantrip that works with Charisma and remain Strength+Charisma, sure a cantrip (other than EB) doesn't do as much damage as two ranged attacks but since Paladin doesn't get much more for damage on ranged attacks, it's not that different and then you can step into melee much easier than going Dex based. More so the Warlock multiclass allows you to focus far more on Charisma for an even stronger Aura of Protection.
The way I general perceive a DEX based paladin to be would be going in with a bow until nearing melee range and then switching to two weapon fighting, using something like scimitar and shortsword for having more versatility in combat, rather than just hanging back like the CHA based support paladin would.
Probably because you're focused a bit on damage first.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Probably because you're focused a bit on damage first.
Damage is the main point of a weapon, no? but no, I am not focused on damage first however bows have no secondary usage really past that. But that doesn't really answer the main question I have asked, what is it people are trying to achieve with having a Paladin with a Bow?
If you want to be a support, you want to be Charisma Based, more so for Aura of Protection, if you want to be a DD or Tank you want strength. If you want ranged attacks, you have thrown weapons using strength or you can pick-up a cantrip of some sort and focus on Charisma for even longer range. If you do decide to go Dex Based, you're probably picking up medium armor and two melee weapons, you can use a bow better but you'd probably not focus on it since you'd still do better in most paladin builds by using melee attacks... you just use a bow at the start and switch to two weapons when getting into melee range.
Anyways, there is one exception to the smite rule, that is Warlock's Eldritch Smite, if people want to smite with a bow, that option exists but it does need to be a magical bow. Of course you'd be playing a Warlock at this point instead of Paladin but Archfey is a nice fit for the more nature like theming.
The fact is, that paladin offers a unique set of spells and abilities that you don't get by trying to maximize damage via another class. That said, we clearly don't agree. I think you're not seeing past maximizing the damage via smite bot, so really, there's no point in continuing to discuss.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The fact is, that paladin offers a unique set of spells and abilities that you don't get by trying to maximize damage via another class. That said, we clearly don't agree. I think you're not seeing past maximizing the damage via smite bot, so really, there's no point in continuing to discuss.
We can end discussion but if you're thinking I'm saying Paladin is just a smite bot then you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying at all.
A) What is the reason people want a Paladin with a Bow
B) Why are people trying to make Paladin work with a Bow when there are superior options, not just for damage but for support, tanking, etc?
That is the shorter and more clear versions of the questions I keep asking and not getting answers too.
The fact is, that paladin offers a unique set of spells and abilities that you don't get by trying to maximize damage via another class. That said, we clearly don't agree. I think you're not seeing past maximizing the damage via smite bot, so really, there's no point in continuing to discuss.
We can end discussion but if you're thinking I'm saying Paladin is just a smite bot then you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying at all.
A) What is the reason people want a Paladin with a Bow
B) Why are people trying to make Paladin work with a Bow when there are superior options, not just for damage but for support, tanking, etc?
That is the shorter and more clear versions of the questions I keep asking and not getting answers too.
Because, and this is a total guess, they want to play an archer Paladin despite there being better options?
Past editions had, and Pathfinder does have, archer Paladin subclasses. Dexterity Paladins are pretty popular as far as niche, suboptimal builds go already. It's not out of question to see that transition into archery easily. .
Can you Smite with a bow? No, although most DMs would probably allow it as a house rule. Does it matter? Not that much, as there are other uses for spell slots than Smiting.
Because, and this is a total guess, they want to play an archer Paladin despite there being better options?
Past editions had, and Pathfinder does have, archer Paladin subclasses. Dexterity Paladins are pretty popular as far as niche, suboptimal builds go already. It's not out of question to see that transition into archery easily. .
Can you Smite with a bow? No, although most DMs would probably allow it as a house rule. Does it matter? Not that much, as there are other uses for spell slots than Smiting.
People want it because people want it really isn't an answer to the question I am asking. Somebody could say they want to play a rogue with a Halberd, but nobody is going to take that seriously since that isn't the Rogue Archetype, as such, I am asking what is the fantasy aspect people are looking at for this? Is their some archetype they are thinking of, somebody wanting to play a barbarian like Conan is obviously wanting to play like Conan.
As for Pathfinder, they are constantly changing things in 2E to the point Paladin no longer exists so we are talking 1E which is based off of 3.5E. Ultimately that is a different game with a whole host of different mechanics, lore and different class balancing going on that isn't really that relevant for 5E.
Because, and this is a total guess, they want to play an archer Paladin despite there being better options?
Past editions had, and Pathfinder does have, archer Paladin subclasses. Dexterity Paladins are pretty popular as far as niche, suboptimal builds go already. It's not out of question to see that transition into archery easily. .
Can you Smite with a bow? No, although most DMs would probably allow it as a house rule. Does it matter? Not that much, as there are other uses for spell slots than Smiting.
People want it because people want it really isn't an answer to the question I am asking. Like what is the fantasy aspect people are looking at for this? Is their some archetype they are thinking of, somebody wanting to play a barbarian like Conan is obviously wanting to play like Conan.
As for Pathfinder, they are constantly changing things in 2E to the point Paladin no longer exists so we are talking 1E which is based off of 3.5E. Ultimately that is a different game with a whole host of different mechanics, lore and different class balancing going on that isn't really that relevant for 5E.
We're not talking about Pathfinder or 3.5. I simply mentioned it to show that this concept existed in the past. That's the end of that point. We're still clearly talking about 5e (or, probably, 5.5e).
And, yes, people wanting it is the exact answer to your question. This seems to personally offend you, so maybe YOU'RE concerned with the optimization part and clearly other people are less concerned.
Because, and this is a total guess, they want to play an archer Paladin despite there being better options?
Past editions had, and Pathfinder does have, archer Paladin subclasses. Dexterity Paladins are pretty popular as far as niche, suboptimal builds go already. It's not out of question to see that transition into archery easily. .
Can you Smite with a bow? No, although most DMs would probably allow it as a house rule. Does it matter? Not that much, as there are other uses for spell slots than Smiting.
People want it because people want it really isn't an answer to the question I am asking. Like what is the fantasy aspect people are looking at for this? Is their some archetype they are thinking of, somebody wanting to play a barbarian like Conan is obviously wanting to play like Conan.
As for Pathfinder, they are constantly changing things in 2E to the point Paladin no longer exists so we are talking 1E which is based off of 3.5E. Ultimately that is a different game with a whole host of different mechanics, lore and different class balancing going on that isn't really that relevant for 5E.
We're not talking about Pathfinder or 3.5. I simply mentioned it to show that this concept existed in the past. That's the end of that point. We're still clearly talking about 5e (or, probably, 5.5e).
And, yes, people wanting it is the exact answer to your question. This seems to personally offend you, so maybe YOU'RE concerned with the optimization part and clearly other people are less concerned.
no my concern is people will play this and then demands that it needs to be optimized, you're putting the cart before the horse in my consideration.
If people started playing Rogue with a Halberd, and then saying it doesn't work that well, the game needs to be adjusted, why even consider this to begin with. Rogue is obviously not a class designed to be using a Halberd, you can try it but what is the point in wanting to do this over say just playing a fighter with a Halberd. In a class based system, classes matter and this topic just seems to want to disregard the idea that perhaps if you want to play with an archer style character, that Paladin shouldn't be the class to try make and work with that.
I'll disregard pathfinder for now, while I like the system in some parts it also has issues in other parts, it tries to cater to everything and that in itself does have issues. Which does lead to the 2E issue of constantly shifting everything, trying to DM it and telling people that oh yeah, everything in your build is now renamed because of new material gets quiet annoying, more so when you're using official FoundryVTT modules to play it, where keeping up to date means everybody now has to relearn everything (definitely not a personal pet peeve I've had to deal with a few times now).
I imagine an archer paladin with an Oath of the Ancients build. But unfortunately smites don’t work with ranged weapons or am I wrong?
That is correct. No smites in the paladin list work with ranged weapons (all melee and unarmed).
You can use smite spells on thrown attacks with melee weapons, if your goal is to be more of a ranged combat specialist and you don't care as much about it being literal archery.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yeah. While that's true RAW, I don't like it from a flavor perspective.
To me, there's really no flavor justification for allowing thrown weapons and disallowing ranged weapons. I think it really should just be melee attacks (including reach weapons, of course). But that's just my interpretation of smites.
Adding (damage) riders to ranged attacks just seems like it's more of a ranger thing than a paladin thing.
Fair point. It does seem like the image they're generally going for with the Paladin class is a classic "knight in shining armor" charging valiantly into battle, and ranged attacks of any kind don't really fit with that.
Maybe there's room for a Paladin subclass with abilities focused on ranged combat — maybe from the air, like the Winged Sentinel from Daggerheart.
pronouns: he/she/they
Paladins have access to all martial weapons so you can use a bow if you want to use a bow. No, you can't Smite, but that's not the only thing Paladins have spell slots for either.
I just saw a video on Treantmonk about a
rangedarcher paladin build today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kizgLDOZ2fU
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If you want to be ranged and not be a ranger, I'd just say be a fighter. Fighter has subclasses for ranged combat and Paladin doesn't nor do most Paladin features and spells work well with ranged combat. Sure smites work with thrown weapons (and I agree with Sabin76 that it should be limited to melee only even if that isn't currently RAW).
Overall what is the hope here for a Paladin with a bow? Yes Dex-based paladin can be done but it has multiple flaws and the upsides often aren't worth it in the long run and it doesn't really explain what the goal of it is, rather paladin with bow seems to be the goal and that isn't how a character should be made/designed. Really it should be a case of getting a character concept and then figuring out which class/archetype fits that the best and if that is a character with a bow, that is probably A Ranger, A Fighter or a Rogue. The fact it is a class based game, means choosing a class should be an impactful choice and for Paladin that should mean no ranged weapon attacks.
It depends on what you're looking for in your archer. Paladin is a better pick than ranger in certain instances. You just have to accept that you're not going to get to use all your features, all the time. fortunately, MOST paladin features use spell slots, so you just use those spell slots on other things that you want to do.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm asking what is the actual goal? Why do people want to play paladin as an archer.
If one class can do literally everything then there is no point in other classes and realistically the things Paladin shouldn't be able to do is ranged attacks which should be balanced by stronger melee performance, being inline with Barbarian or Strength based Fighter. Paladin can already heal, tank, support & does well in social encounters.
Currently if you go ranged, you need to go Dex based and at that point you're losing access to heavy armor, potentially multiclassing (since you still need STR & CHA 13) and may lose access to melee heavy weapons too, so there is a lot of trade off that makes DEX based just not as worthwhile overall.
If you want Paladin to be viable at range, it's no secret that you can just multiclass into Warlock to get Eldritch Blast, Agonising Blast and the Hex spell which will generally speaking always do far more damage than a Paladin with a bow will.
If we want to be clear on the issue, Paladin loses access to more than just smites, for subclasses in the PHB...
Ancients
- the only subclass with no real downsides, technically nature's wrath but then you just use it as a way to help back liners get away from creatures that get to the back lines, so still viable.
+ you get ensnaring strike at least.
Devotion
- Sacred Weapon is limited to melee weapons
- Smite of Protection requires using Divine Smite
Glory
- Inspiring Smite requires using Divine Smite
Vengeance
- Vow of Enmity's activation has a 30 foot range, the same range as a Javelin, so just use Javelins since you basically need to be hanging around that range anyway.
- Relentless Avenger is limited to opportunity attacks (melee)
- Soul of Vengeance is limited to performing melee attacks
Then the worst thing of all which is just Paladin base class, you lose Radiant Strikes, which are specifically limited to melee weapon or unarmed attacks.
and if we get into spells, it's really a question of what other spells?
1st level Divine Favor and Bless
2nd level Prayer of Healing (once/day) and Warding Bond
3rd level... Aura of Vitality? Elemental Weapon? Crusader's Mantle? (why not just cast bless...)
4th level...... Death Ward maybe? Aura of Purity if it comes up?
5th level Summon Celestial
So yes, there are alternatives but let's not pretend that those alternatives are actually that good. If you got to other books, you can get Holy Weapon from XgtE for 5th level too but overall it's a huge DPS loss, you're more going into a support build that has a bow rather than an archer build. If you want to be a support build then you can just multiclass into Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock too to get access to more support related spells or spellcasting power.
Ultimately you can play whatever you want to play, if you want to play a paladin with a bow you can do that but I'm asking, why do people feel the need to do it? What is the ultimate purpose in that, that you're willing to give up so much of Paladin's features and spells to achieve it? Instead of just playing a Ranger, a Fighter or a Rogue which don't suffer from these types of issues?
As for Ranger, it just has a lot of issues that need resolving, that I think is an entirely separate discussion but if we are talking alternatives to Ranger then Dex based Fighter and Rogue already exist and in fact the one way you can still keep Ranger feeling good is multiclassing Ranger into Rogue after level ~6.
I'd play paladin over ranger because I like the spells better. I tend to prefer Divine Favor over Hunter's Mark because it's no fuss, no shifting, etc. I like bless very much, and unlike Faerie Fire from the ranger it requires no saving throws to stick. It just works. I like being able to keep my aura of protection in the back, helping the wizard maintain his concentration. I like keeping my concentration spells in the back where I have less chance to lose my concentration. Heck even summoning a packhorse is useful when you get to do it.
Dex based fighters do not have any of the features I just talked about, nor do rogues. And frankly, I just generally tend to not care for rogues.
You're looking at this from the point of being an archer first, which is fine,and I'd agree, that fighters and rogues likely make superior archers from an archery stand point.
I tend to like the paladin package a lot, and don't believe that being unable to use my smites isn't reason enough to not play a paladin archer when it does come with a lot of other goodies I like. Paladin makes a good enough archer and brings a lot of party support that I enjoy using that the other characters can't match.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I can get Bless > Faerie Fire and Divine Favor over hunter's mark. Aura of Protection is of course a good feature. What I don't get is why go Dex and focus on Bow past that.
I did address being a support but again, I don't think if your goal is going for being a support that Archery is the way to go. Paladin does get access to things like Javelins or can multiclass to get Eldritch Blast which generally just function better than using a bow, alternatively you can go for magic initiative to get a cantrip that works with Charisma and remain Strength+Charisma, sure a cantrip (other than EB) doesn't do as much damage as two ranged attacks but since Paladin doesn't get much more for damage on ranged attacks, it's not that different and then you can step into melee much easier than going Dex based. More so the Warlock multiclass allows you to focus far more on Charisma for an even stronger Aura of Protection.
The way I general perceive a DEX based paladin to be would be going in with a bow until nearing melee range and then switching to two weapon fighting, using something like scimitar and shortsword for having more versatility in combat, rather than just hanging back like the CHA based support paladin would.
Probably because you're focused a bit on damage first.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Damage is the main point of a weapon, no? but no, I am not focused on damage first however bows have no secondary usage really past that. But that doesn't really answer the main question I have asked, what is it people are trying to achieve with having a Paladin with a Bow?
If you want to be a support, you want to be Charisma Based, more so for Aura of Protection, if you want to be a DD or Tank you want strength. If you want ranged attacks, you have thrown weapons using strength or you can pick-up a cantrip of some sort and focus on Charisma for even longer range. If you do decide to go Dex Based, you're probably picking up medium armor and two melee weapons, you can use a bow better but you'd probably not focus on it since you'd still do better in most paladin builds by using melee attacks... you just use a bow at the start and switch to two weapons when getting into melee range.
Anyways, there is one exception to the smite rule, that is Warlock's Eldritch Smite, if people want to smite with a bow, that option exists but it does need to be a magical bow. Of course you'd be playing a Warlock at this point instead of Paladin but Archfey is a nice fit for the more nature like theming.
The fact is, that paladin offers a unique set of spells and abilities that you don't get by trying to maximize damage via another class. That said, we clearly don't agree. I think you're not seeing past maximizing the damage via smite bot, so really, there's no point in continuing to discuss.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
We can end discussion but if you're thinking I'm saying Paladin is just a smite bot then you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying at all.
A) What is the reason people want a Paladin with a Bow
B) Why are people trying to make Paladin work with a Bow when there are superior options, not just for damage but for support, tanking, etc?
That is the shorter and more clear versions of the questions I keep asking and not getting answers too.
Because, and this is a total guess, they want to play an archer Paladin despite there being better options?
Past editions had, and Pathfinder does have, archer Paladin subclasses. Dexterity Paladins are pretty popular as far as niche, suboptimal builds go already. It's not out of question to see that transition into archery easily. .
Can you Smite with a bow? No, although most DMs would probably allow it as a house rule. Does it matter? Not that much, as there are other uses for spell slots than Smiting.
People want it because people want it really isn't an answer to the question I am asking. Somebody could say they want to play a rogue with a Halberd, but nobody is going to take that seriously since that isn't the Rogue Archetype, as such, I am asking what is the fantasy aspect people are looking at for this? Is their some archetype they are thinking of, somebody wanting to play a barbarian like Conan is obviously wanting to play like Conan.
As for Pathfinder, they are constantly changing things in 2E to the point Paladin no longer exists so we are talking 1E which is based off of 3.5E. Ultimately that is a different game with a whole host of different mechanics, lore and different class balancing going on that isn't really that relevant for 5E.
We're not talking about Pathfinder or 3.5. I simply mentioned it to show that this concept existed in the past. That's the end of that point. We're still clearly talking about 5e (or, probably, 5.5e).
And, yes, people wanting it is the exact answer to your question. This seems to personally offend you, so maybe YOU'RE concerned with the optimization part and clearly other people are less concerned.
no my concern is people will play this and then demands that it needs to be optimized, you're putting the cart before the horse in my consideration.
If people started playing Rogue with a Halberd, and then saying it doesn't work that well, the game needs to be adjusted, why even consider this to begin with. Rogue is obviously not a class designed to be using a Halberd, you can try it but what is the point in wanting to do this over say just playing a fighter with a Halberd. In a class based system, classes matter and this topic just seems to want to disregard the idea that perhaps if you want to play with an archer style character, that Paladin shouldn't be the class to try make and work with that.
I'll disregard pathfinder for now, while I like the system in some parts it also has issues in other parts, it tries to cater to everything and that in itself does have issues. Which does lead to the 2E issue of constantly shifting everything, trying to DM it and telling people that oh yeah, everything in your build is now renamed because of new material gets quiet annoying, more so when you're using official FoundryVTT modules to play it, where keeping up to date means everybody now has to relearn everything (definitely not a personal pet peeve I've had to deal with a few times now).